Will America Go Full Fascist In 2020?

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Like fascist dictator Benito Mussolini, President Donald Trump enjoys speaking at rallies!

After last week’s controversial campaign rally in North Carolina, it’s official: President Donald Trump has gone full fascist in his bid to be re-elected to a second term. The historically unpopular president is pinning his hopes on the basest instincts of his white nationalist followers.

You know, the kind of people who chant “send her back” at rallies when Trump suggests that Rep. Ilhan Omar should return to Somalia, the naturalized American citizen’s homeland, instead of criticize his administration’s policies, which is the job she was elected to do.

Trump should just give up on his freakish comb-over and shave his head. Mugging for the rally crowd a full 12 seconds during the chant, he could have been Il Duce.

The president denied blowing the racist dog whistle, but it was audible to every human being in America outside of right-wing radio talk show hosts, FOX News pundits and their audiences—but kudos to Geraldo Rivera, an American of Puerto Rican and Jewish descent, for informing his FOX colleagues that the president’s comments were indeed racist.

This capped off a week in which Trump doubled, tripled and quadrupled down on Twitter with similar racist comments about the so-called Squad, which includes Omar and Reps. Ayanna Pressley, Rashida Tlaib and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

The four women of color are progressive Democrats swept in by the 2018 Blue Wave election that tilted the House to Democratic control. The Squad symbolizes a generational shift in the Democratic Party, away from the corporate centrism of the Clinton era and toward more progressive solutions to the income inequality that has continued to increase in the United States during Trump’s watch.

These solutions include programs that are supported by a large majority of the public, including Medicare For All, reduced college tuition and student loan debt relief, as well as the more controversial Green New Deal, an urgently-needed plan to address anthropogenic climate change.

Trump has branded the Squad as socialist fanatics, or even worse, communists, that need to go back to their home countries of origin if they don’t like the glaring income inequality that exists in America.

I can’t help but compare Trump’s senior adviser Stephen Miller, architect of the administration’s immigration policy, to Hitler’s director of propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, and not just because they look alike.

Propaganda masters Joseph Goebbels and Stephen Miller: separated at birth?

The Nazis were not averse to socialism—they were after all the national socialist party. In controversial historian David Irving’s biography of Goebbels, as the Nazi’s consolidated their power during the 1930s Great Depression, Hitler’s PR man made sure that starving Germans received food rations in the winter—even as he encouraged those same Germans to attack Bolshevik communists in the streets, because many were Jewish and therefore un-German.

It’s worth noting that Stephen Miller is Jewish, the descendant of Jews who immigrated to the United States at the turn of the century—before the 1924 Immigration Act limited Jewish, Italian and Polish immigration from Europe. His uncle, David Glosser, basically calls Miller’s present employment a family disgrace.

“I have watched with dismay and increasing horror as my nephew, an educated man who is well aware of his heritage, has become the architect of immigration policies that repudiate the very foundation of our family’s life in this country,” Glosser wrote last year in Politico. He continues to be an outspoken critic of his nephew.

Of course Trump and his right-wing media enablers have labeled Omar an anti-Semite because she dared to state the obvious on Twitter: Everyone in Washington D.C. knows the American Israel Public Affairs Committee is one of the most powerful lobbying organizations on Capitol Hill. It’s not an “anti-Semitic trope” to point that out.

The vast majority of American Jews are liberal, oppose Trump and aren’t too pleased he’s dragging the Jewish people into his race war. Here’s Anti-Defamation League national director Jonathan Greenblatt on Trump’s comments about the Squad in a Jewish Telegraph Agency article last week:

“As Jews, we are all too familiar with this kind of divisive prejudice. While ADL has publicly disagreed with these congresswomen on some issues, the president is echoing the racist talking points of white nationalists and cynically using the Jewish people and the state of Israel as a shield to double down on his remarks.”

That’s exactly what Trump is doing, appealing to his white nationalist base, a good many of whom are also right-wing evangelical Christians. Trump moved the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem to please them, not the Jewish people.

Right-wing evangelicals love Israel, because its recent history fulfills their eschatology, which states the Jewish people must return to Israel before the end times can begin. When Armageddon arrives, everyone who doesn’t convert to Christianity, including the Jews, gets thrown into an eternal lake of fire.

It would seem evangelicals love Israel, but the Jewish people? Maybe not so much. I’d wager many evangelicals, particularly in rural areas, have never met a Jewish person and believe George Soros is pulling the world’s puppet strings, because they’ve been told that thousands of times on right-wing radio and websites.

At any rate, anti-Semitism is on the rise in the United States and worldwide, both in the number of violent attacks and the proliferation of anti-Semitic material on the internet. To be sure, criticizing Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians is not anti-Semitism; asserting that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion are in full-effect, a la Henry Ford, is anti-Semitic.

The latter sentiment is all over the internet these days, 99.9 percent of it comes from the right-wing, and it has already led to blood being spilled in our streets.

The Pittsburgh synagogue shooter believed brown people were literally invading from the south in a plan perniciously designed by Jews to dilute the white population known as “white genocide” on the alt-Right. Like many members of the alt-Right, he was disappointed by the number of Jews Trump appointed to his administration and the president’s deference to Israel. Trump didn’t give him his wall, so last October he went out and murdered 11 Jewish people on Shabbat.

Every time Trump attacks a person of color, which is frequently, the extreme members of his right-wing base light up the internet with their approval. They’re just like those starving Germans waiting for Goebbels to throw some raw meat their way, angry, hungry and looking for “others” to blame. Needless to say, many of Trump’s supporters are rabid Second Amendment supporters who are armed to the teeth.

What could go wrong?

Ever since Trump took that escalator ride to inform us Mexicans are rapists four years ago, people have been posting “The 14 Characteristics of Fascism” online, which I pilfered from a recent Daily Kos article on the subject and originates from the national Holocaust Museum’s gift shop.

It’s easy to see many of these characteristics were already with us before Trump: the obsession with national security, the protection of corporate power, the suppression of labor unions, a controlled mass media, rampant sexism, the obsession with crime and punishment.

Trump is like the final grain added to a supersaturated solution that instantly crystallizes in the beaker, in his case as fascism.

He’s handed one religion, right-wing evangelical Christianity, the tools to begin dismantling the wall separating church and state, in exchange for their unconditional support. The five-time draft dodger sucks up to authoritarian leaders and crazily threatens countries with nuclear annihilation—on Twitter.

His climate change denial has demonstrated an unprecedented break from science by an American president. Anti-intellectualism is a feature of the Trump administration, not a bug.

He has time and time again shown his disdain for the human rights of non-white people, particularly if they happen to be refugees from the seven and counting countries the United States has invaded and destroyed during the 18-year-long War on Terror, or a football player protesting police violence against blacks, or the Squad exposing our horrific treatment of South American immigrants on the border.

The Squad, whether the Democratic Party knows it yet or not, along with presidential candidates Sens. Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, offers an antidote to this creeping fascism. Income inequality is at the root of the problems faced by the disenfranchised white working class, just as it is for non-whites. If whites and non-whites join together to form a more perfect union for everybody, Trump doesn’t stand a chance in 2020.

The fate of the nation depends on convincing white working class people to stop voting against their own interests. Just don’t call it socialism, and most of them will go along with it.

R.V. Scheide
R.V. Scheide has been a northern California journalist for more than 20 years. He appreciates your comments and story ideas. He can be emailed at RVScheide@anewscafe.com.
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223 Responses

  1. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    After 2020 this nation will be either Fascist or Socialist and more divided.
    Nazi Germany was short lived. Rome, England, Greece, Egypt all had long lived civilizations that imploded. Could America implode like those once great powers?

  2. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    RV, I’m surprised when you mention who is feuding with Trump that you didn’t mention Trump’s feud with Redding’s hometown hero, Megan Rapinoe. Well documented down here in Arizona is the feud between Trump and the McClain family.
    As in 2016 I don’t see how Trump was elected and I don’t see how he will be reelected in 2020.

    • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

      I wrote about Megan two weeks ago. No need to use her again. She has enough weight on her shoulders.

      • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

        RV, I made a promise to Doug that women’s soccer would not be forgotten for four years. So I will put her name out all the time. Sorry, my own personal quirk.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          Bruce, Make sure you buy those season tickets to help with income equality.

          • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

            Actually season tickets are cheaper for those who can hit a curve ball and loaded with free gifts to try and fill half empty stadiums with a looming MLB strike over pay on the horizon.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          Too late, Bruce…Women’s soccer engages the U.S. every four years, then disappears for most fans like Eric Swallwell’s presidential run. The average attendance for women’s professional soccer is ?5,464…much less than average minor league baseball teams.

  3. Avatar Patricia Barrett says:

    Perfectly articulated, and the comparisons couldn’t be more relevant.

    Nothing will dissuade white supremacists and fundamentalist “Christians” from voting for Trump, should he become the Republican nominee in 2020 (no other Republican seems to be offering a saner, more moderate alternative, which I personally think is a huge mistake). Trump is providing those groups with easily identifiable scapegoats they can blame all their problems on, since they apparently don’t have the intellectual ability to understand that corporate capitalism is their real enemy.

    The “squad” is both dark-skinned and female, which makes them a perfect target for what’s left of Trump’s racist, sexist, xenophobic hard-core base. And of course Old Testament-banging fundamentalists will continue to make endless excuses for someone who is clearly demented and thoroughly immoral, because he has placed their ilk in charge of nearly every federal agency and commission, and on numerous federal courts. He also stokes their imaginary “war on Christians” paranoia, and promises them an unconstitutional Christian America that was in no way what the country’s founding fathers intended.

    • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

      Thanks Patrecia. The parallels between now and then are impossible to ignore.

    • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

      Patricia, the “sane” Republicans are leaving the GOP party. Will the Democrats stop squabbling and seize the moment?

      • Avatar Patricia Barrett says:


        It seems to me there is a considerable amount of disagreement in the Republican Party as well. Not every Republican is in lockstep behind Trump (although I don’t believe more than one or two have actually left the Party), and mainstream Republicans have often been at odds with the radical religious right element (which Trump represents).

        Long before the election I believe we’ll be seeing a predominant Democratic message, carried by a moderate presidential nominee – with perhaps one of the less radical leftist candidates as the vice-presidential nominee, who will appeal to the millions of Americans who are ready to see their taxes go to benefit the actual citizens.

        On the other hand, unless other Republicans step forward to challenge Trump, the Republican Party will be running a radical extremist. I doubt the vast majority of people in the northern and southern bible-belt states who voted for Trump the first time around have seen any improvement in their lives. In fact the opposite may be true.

        • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

          Patricia, one or two Republicans leave the party every month. There have been at least three here in Arizona. The highest profile Republican to leave is Grant Woods, a former member of Senator John McCain’s staff. He may even challenge Martha McSally for McCain’s open seat in 2020, as a Democrat and probably win.

          • Avatar Patricia Barrett says:


            Unfortunately most of those defectors aren’t joining the Democratic Party. They’re becoming “independents” (code for Libertarians), which is just another word for a Republican.

          • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

            Patricia, Independents are the largest group of voters in Arizona and are growing. Which Democrat Party is going to survive? The Biden one or the Sanders one. And where does it say independents are a code word for Libertarians. More fake news.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          Patricia, according to latest polls, Trump has a higher approval rating than Obama at the same point of his term. Pretty amazing considering that media coverage of Trump is 92 percent negative, far different than for his predecessor. His support among blacks has doubled to 35%. His approval among Republicans remain high at 89%. Of those who approve of Trump, 89 percent identify as Republicans, while 41 percent identify as independents. Only 8 percent identified as Democrats. Those independents are an important group.
          That is enough to guarantee another Trump term. Which Democrat candidate will be the moderate voice? They all seem to be running as fast as they can to the far left.

          According to CNN, 71% of Americans believe the U.S. economy is in good shape. So yes, the majority of people in the north and south have seen improvement,

          • Avatar Patricia Barrett says:


            I don’t have time to check out all your claims above at the moment, but rest assured I WILL.

          • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

            According to the latest polls, Trump is still the most unpopular president in modern history. I put the link in the story, here it is again.


          • Avatar Tim says:

            Jimmy Carter isn’t modern history?

          • Avatar Patricia Barrett says:

            The 71 percent of Americans Doug claims believe the economy is doing good also includes people who only believe it is “somewhat” good, and only a small percentage of respondents believe Trump deserves the credit.

            I also can’t find any legitimate source that puts Trump’s approval rating among Black people at more than 17 percent at its highest point(and even that figure is iffy).

            Finally, right-wing sites have been avidly watching to see if Trump could briefly struggle past Obama’s lowest approval ratings by a couple of points (according to one poll or another), which is all that may have happened here.


          • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

            I set the bar for the popularity question by including a link to 538 in the story and now in these comments. 538’s graph averages ALL polls and is right now the industry standard for accuracy. Scroll to the bottom of the page, and you’ll see, Trump so far has lower popularity than the last 8 presidents. Interestingly, the next least popular president is Obama, who was above 50 percent his first term, but dipped below 50 percent on his second term. Trump is an historically unpopular president, and this data confirms it.

          • Avatar Patricia Barrett says:


            I checked out your graph, but had a little trouble deciphering it. Thanks for explaining it.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            And using your link to 538, I see that at 915 days into his presidency, Jimmy Carter (7 presidents ago) had a 28.9% approval rating to Trump’s 42.7%.

            I also see that at day 762 Regan (6 presidents ago) had a 35.3% approval rating to Trump’s 42%. At day 134, Trump was 2 points more popular than Clinton and at day 166 Trump was 4 points more popular than Ford.

          • Avatar George says:

            I find common decency to be more important than the economy. All that money can do is buy stuff. Many of us cannot cannot afford stuff. But we can be fair and nice. Unlike your your Orange Peel.

        • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

          I think it would be extremely unwise for Democrats to write-off the white working class vote–that’s one reason we got Trump in the first place. Programs such as Medicare For All appeal to everyone, and will benefit young people who’d, say, like to raise a family but are terrified by the expense. If you give people something tangible, they’ll come around to your side. Progressive populism could win.

          • Avatar Patricia Barrett says:

            More than one of the ideas progressive candidates have will appeal to the white working class (or should).

    • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

      Tim: You can’t read graphs can you? Please look at the link and prove you can. Jimmy Carter was more popular than Trump at this stage BY FAR.

  4. R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

    Many academics believe we are in the end stage of empire, and it sure feels like it to me.

    • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

      This was supposed to be a comment on Bruce’s first comment.

    • Avatar Linda Cooper says:

      R.V. After last week, it sure feels like it to me as well. Which is why your article is so important. Please keep writing. Thank you.

      I saw a FB post on a friend’s page yesterday:

      “I can’t tell you at this moment which is more prominent, my anger or my fear.”

      I thought it was poignant since the post was written by a black woman, and summed up my feelings as well.

      • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

        Linda, last week was what the French existentialists called “absurd.” This week, Trump is quintupling down on his fascist rhetoric, like by somehow force-feeding it to us, it will be normalized. Fortunately, the majority in this country doesn’t want to see fascism normalized.

  5. Adrienne Jacoby Adrienne Jacoby says:

    It never ceases to startle me how a segment of the population can be pro-Israel and anti Semitic at the same time . . . . but there you have it!!!

    • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

      Christian Zionism and Jewish Zionism have always had a somewhat ironic relationship. In the rural setting, conservative evangelicals who use the term “globalism” conspiratorially, or bitch and moan about those “degenerates in Hollywood,” are in a sense unconscious of their anti-Semitism. A little education can straighten them right out. I was once a country boy, never met a Jewish person until after I graduated from high school and moved to the big city. I was once trying to barter with a salesman in SF when I said, “Can I jew you down a little more?” The salesman politely informed me why it was inappropriate to say that, and I’ve never said it again!

  6. Avatar Randy says:

    Watching Stephen Miller just steam his reconstruction of reality over the top of Chris Wallace even as Wallace repeats the actual words of AOC was very disturbing. It appears that Trump’s incessant lies, his consistent demands that his lies are the truth and his base then accepting those blatant lies as truth is all just part of a greater strategic plan rather than a character flaw. With the help of evangelical leaders and right wing media Trump can bend the minds of his base at will into accepting any lie or perversion as “God’s will”.

    • Avatar Richard Christoph says:


      Chris Wallace has been roundly attacked by those on the right for that interview with Stephen Miller and with his subsequent interview with Congressman Nadler. But for an experience even more egregious than Miller’s bombast, catch Margaret Brennan’s attempt to interview Liz Cheney yesterday on “Face The Nation.” Neither Miller nor Cheney allow the interviewer to get a word in, and like Kellyanne, just keep barreling ahead with their talking points.

      Incidentally, for those who eschew Fox News in its entirety, please watch Shep Smith at noon, and Chris Wallace on Sunday morning. The only honest journalists in the Fox News stable.

      • Avatar Randy says:

        I did see that and Cheney being allowed to reinforce the lie tht AOC, “called Americans garbage”, is another perfect example of ‘mind bending’. I think this new level of blatant lying began with Trump being able to claim AGW is a hoax without even being called to show where the science is wrong or has been faked. If our citizenry is willing accept that level of BS there are no limits on the potential to destroy truth and replace the truth with lies.

      • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

        Liz actually puts out more evil vibes than her daddy, which is saying something!

    • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

      What was really remarkable about the Miller-Wallace interview was Miller using the “America First” slogan, which everybody knows was deployed by Charles Lindbergh pre-WWII as a quasi-fascist, pro-German movement. Tarnished Lucky Lindy’s record permanently.

    • Avatar Rob says:

      Randy, you mean if the lies are repeated often enough they become the “truth”?

      Ever since Stephen Miller’s infamous utterance, “The president’s authority will not be questioned!” I have pictured him in a Nazi uniform.

  7. Tom O'Mara Tom O'Mara says:

    I called Rep. LaMalfa’s office last week, and asked if they had the source for ANY of The Squad saying they hate America. The reply was, “No, we don’t have that information.” I then requested that the Congressman quit endorsing the comment of the President saying that.

    • Avatar Candace C says:

      Tom, I contacted La Malfa’s office as well regarding his defense of Trump’s lie regarding the racist “send her back” chant. I watched the rally. Trump did not stop it or “quickly move on” as he said. This phenomenon where people can actually see and hear things said and done in real time and then say it didn’t happen is infuriatingly frustrating and alarming. Tbh I expect nothing less from LaMalfa but I still think he needs to hear from his constituents who disagree with him. Probably makes no difference to him but not staying quiet about it important to me.

    • Terry Turner Terry Turner says:

      Well Done, Tom! Thank you!

    • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

      When there’s this much gas-lighting going on, the slightest spark could set the whole thing off.

  8. Avatar don says:

    Hey R.V. Thanks for pointing out that there is a difference between antisemitism and disagreeing with some of Israel’s policies. I think it would be fair to say a good share of Israelis and Jewish Americans also disagree with some of these policies.

    • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

      Don, I once wrote quite a bit about the Israel-Palestine conflict, and some of my best sources were members of the Jewish American community, because they are among the few willing to stand up and point out injustices when they see them. Of course, I also got a lot of flak from the mainstream Jewish community, which can sometimes be hyper-sensitive, for obvious reasons that must never be forgotten.

  9. Avatar Tim says:

    Telling someone to go back to their country of origin is not racist; country /= race…

    And if Trump was like Mussolini, liberals wouldn’t have to invent & exaggerate Trump insults – they’d find plenty of tangible examples as they were being hauled away to real concentration camps by the secret police.

    • Avatar Randy says:

      I agree that telling someone to ‘go back to where you come fr0m’ does not necessarily have to be motivated by rascism but when all the pieces of Trump’s many personal attacks on people of color and his demeaning of their countries of origin are allmput together is when racism becomes a legitimate charge. Now lets talk about telling the truth and what happens when the “leader of the free world’ speaks incessant lies. From claiming AGW is a hoax to demanding his ralley crowds are “the largest ever” to claiming AOC called the American people “garbage” and on and on and on. Are these daily lies about making America better or are they about sowing chaos and division from which he can grab more power?

    • Avatar Patricia Barrett says:


      If you’ll recall, Trump originally directed his remarks to all four congresswomen of color – three of whom were born in this country. He said that they have no right to tell real Americans how the country should be run. Isn’t that exactly what they were elected to do? Of course he’s now attempting to back-peddle by pretending that he really only meant Omar.

      This was just more of the blatant racism Trump has a long history of, with the obvious take-away being that darker-skinned people don’t belong here, and have no business telling white people (especially white men) what to do. The fact that they’re women is a bonus, as far as his deplorable base is concerned.

      • Avatar Tim says:

        That is your interpretation of the statement and there is evidence to support your point of view. But it is still an interpretation – the statement itself – like most of Trump’s statements – was not racist.

        A unbiased journalist would say something like “Many feel the statement, which was directed at four people of color, contained racial undertones.” Biased journalists simply say “the racist statement.” It may seem like a subtle distinction, but it is an important one – especially for those who anoint themselves arbitrars of Truth.

      • Avatar Anita Brady says:

        Over and over, you hear GOPers say they only want immigrants to come here legally. They’re not racists.

        Rep. Omar came here legally (unlike FLOTUS), acquired citizenship, educated herself and won an election. ALL LEGALLY. Now, GOPers are singing a different tune, so they have wiped away any pretense– racists.

        • Avatar Tim says:

          More race-card B.S. They’d also tell a Canadian or Brit to “go back home” if they started complaining about how bad things are in America. It has zero to do with race and it is offensive to so recklessly say so.

          • Avatar Patricia Barrett says:


            One of the glaring problems with your comment above is that 3 of the 4 women Trump originally directed his remarks to were born in this country, and the 4th is also an American citizen, here since childhood.

            There is virtually no chance that Trump and his ilk would tell an American-born WHITE citizen of the U.S. to go back to another country just because that’s where the person’s ancestors are from. The message in this case (coming from a person with a long history of rabid racism) is that dark-skinned citizens don’t really belong in this country, and that they have no business criticizing their white betters.

    • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

      Tim, you are obviously tone deaf.

    • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

      You know who says “send them back” is racist?

      Federal anti-discrimination laws:


      • Avatar Tim says:

        Fact checker on Aisle 3!!!

        National origin is not the same as race.

        • Avatar Patricia Barrett says:


          You didn’t respond to my comment above, which addresses this point exactly. Do you really think that Trump and his ilk would tell a white American citizen to go to another country just because that’s where the person’s ancestors are from? This is ALL about labeling darker-skinned people as “other”, and inciting racist sentiment against them.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            I have no problem imagining Trump telling Pelosi or Newsom to “go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they (come)”

        • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

          Tim, you’re taking this out of context. It’s about race when all the people being told to go back to their country by a white man are a different color.

          You are a phony libertarian.

  10. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    I believe Chief Joseph, Crazy Horse and Geronimo would like to tell 300 million Americans to go back to their country of origin.

    • Avatar Candace C says:

      Bruce, good point. I think Trump would be the first one they’d prefer to leave.

      • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

        I wonder if a local cartoonist could come up with an orange scalp on Geronimo’s totem pole. Heh, Heh, probably be deleted.

    • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

      One horrible fact about the Native American genocide: It’s still happening.

  11. Avatar Candace C says:

    RV, I agree with every single one of your points, especially the criticism of anything Israel being treated as the third rail. Vote. Him. Out.

    • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

      Many of my Jewish friends have been cringing through Israel’s Netanyahu era. They understand that when right-wing evangelicals write laws prohibiting the Boycott, Sanctions and Divestment movement, it’s a ruse. Theologically, Jews and right-wing evangelicals are mortal enemies, and it’s the evangelicals who claim the Old Testament is inerrant.

  12. Terry Turner Terry Turner says:

    Brilliantly done, R.V.! For those who are unsure, I encourage you please to do a bit of research on how Hitler came to power during the late 20s and 30s. There are great documentaries.

    It didn’t start with the Holocaust. It was just one small step after another, sold to the Germans through an evil and talented propaganda campaign, and Hitler’s public speaking gift. In documentaries, you can see interviews of Germans of that time. It is so powerful when they say that in the beginning, they liked Hitler, and what they believed he was doing for the country. But by the time they realized who he really was, it was too late for them.

    Please don’t let that happen here.

    • Avatar don says:

      “first they came” is a poem written by a German pastor sometime in the 1940’s google it to make your point beautifully.

      • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

        I like the new twist someone put on “first they came.”

        “First they came for the journalists. We don’t know what happened after that.”

    • Avatar Patricia Barrett says:

      Unfortunately it’s already well underway in this country. If the results of the next election don’t radically change the present trajectory the country is taking, R.V. is right – we’ll be facing “full-blown fascism” .

      Fascism can’t thrive without a melding of fundamentalist religion and the state. The church is needed to encourage its followers to meekly accept the actions of the fascist dictator and his regime, with the claim that “god” placed him in his position of power. In exchange, the fascist government accords special privileges to Christians as “proof” of that claim, which is exactly what we’re seeing under the Trump administration.

      Hitler labeled himself and his party “Christian”, and went all-out to court the Christian segment of the German population, who overwhelmingly supported him. In similar fashion fundamentalist “Christians” are the group who put Trump over the top. Trump may not be much of a reader, but I’d be willing to bet that he thoroughly read the book of Hitler’s speeches and tactics he famously kept by his bed.

      • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

        Interestingly enough, Hitler, a Catholic, drew much of his Christian support from the German Evangelical movement, which attempted to merge Nazi values with Christian values, which isn’t as odd as it may seem at first, when you consider the Bible contains more than 70 genocides in the name of God. In the long run, however, the German Evangelicals didn’t win many converts and was not a major influence on the Nazis.

        • Avatar Chris Solberg says:

          In his book The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, William L. Shirer wrote:

          “It is difficult to understand the behavior of most German Protestants in the first Nazi years unless one is aware of two things: their history and the influence of Martin Luther. The great founder of Protestantism was both a passionate anti-Semite and a ferocious believer in absolute obedience to political authority. He wanted Germany rid of the Jews. Luther’s advice was literally followed four centuries later by Hitler, Goering and Himmler”

          In Mein Kampf, Hitler listed Martin Luther as one of the greatest reformers.

          You can find hatred for Jews in the Lutheran Church today as Luther’s writings are shocking

          Anti-Semitism: Martin Luther – “The Jews & Their Lies”


    • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

      Thank you Terry. I too am concerned about the historical parallels between our time and the Weimar Republic era. I truly hope that last week Mr. Trump gave the nation a wake-up call. This is who he is, and we won’t survive four more years of this.

    • Avatar Tim says:

      OK, I’ll bite.

      In the early 1923 Hitler attempted a coup. It failed, and he was imprisoned during which time he wrote the first half of Mein Kampf – the semi autobiography that blamed Jews for Germany’s woes and advocated their extermination.

      Once out of prison, Hitler’s rhetoric fell on deaf ears as Germany enjoyed its share of the roaring 20s. Then the US stock market crashed in October 1929 and the entire world fell into a depression. Hitler’s rhetoric began to appeal to a small, but growing, minority of Germans.

      In the 1932 presidential election, Hitler pulled just over 1/3 of the vote. In a gesture of bipartisanship, the president appointed Hitler chancellor – leader of the cabinet. In 1934 the president died and chancellor Hitler assumed power via a last minute secret decree merging the chancellor and presidency.

      He immediately used the secret police to round up political enemies and place them in concentration camps. Member of the military were made to swear an oath not to Germany, but to Hitler himself. He immediately began preparing for war with the expectation to begin invasions within 4 years. Any military officer resisting was removed from power.

      Reality Check:

      Trump: Billionaire real estate developer who makes rambling speeches
      Hitler: Broke ex-convict party hack with a gift for rousing speeches

      Trump: Wrote a book on making deals
      Hitler: Wrote a book blaming Jews and calling for their extermination

      Trump: Elected by 53% of the college & 46% of the popular vote
      Hitler: Lost presidential election with only 35% of the vote

      Trump: Angrily tweets about his opposition
      Hitler: Uses secret police to round up his opposition and send them to hard labor camps and gas chambers

      Trump: Has reduced or maintained US foreign military involvement
      Hitler: Invaded foreign countries to expand his empire

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        Comparing a political opponent to Hitler is vile, vulgar, and lazy. It minimizes a horrific history and reduces the evil mastermind of a massive genocide against 11 million people to being simply “bad” while it conflates a human with no such tendencies with an evil architect of genocide. Additionally, it demonstrates a lack of restraint in the accuser, who proves himself willing to sacrifice sound facts for a powerful slogan.

        This kind of language is likewise a signal to one’s supporters that it is perfectly acceptable to treat the alleged Hitler (in this case, Trump) exactly as one would the heinous Adolf Hitler. In this political atmosphere, it should come as no surprise that many Americans have reacted as expected

        • Avatar Robert Scheide Sr. says:

          If the glove fits wear it.

        • Avatar Chris Solberg says:

          Gee Doug I read that word for word here in this Beth Bailey opinion piece im thinking you should have put quotes around your entire Washington Examiner opinion paragraph because that statement is not your own>


          • Avatar Candace C says:

            Chris, I was thinking the same thing, you beat me to looking it up. Maybe if there’d been some scattered “good gawds” or “good lords” I’d have had less trouble believing where it was coming from. While it doesn’t change the message crediting sources is important.

          • Avatar Richard Christoph says:

            Though I always read Doug’s comments with interest, this comment certainly did not exhibit his usual same syntax and style, and elicited doubt as to his authorship. Thanks for the good catch, Chris.

        • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

          To repeat: I’m comparing Trump to Mussolini, so I don’t know who you’re referring too.

          You should look into getting a job with the language police.

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          I agree that the Trump-Hitler comparisons are overwrought (or at least premature), but I refuse to stop using “Orange Mussolini.”

          If you’ve never seen the flick “The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension,” you’ve missed out on John Lithgow’s hilariously campy portrayal of Dr. Emilio Lizardo (Lord Worphin) that he based on Mussolini.


          • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

            Mussolini was treated by the press much like Trump is treated, as a buffoon. He was actually a communist the first half of his political career. His physical mannerisms are far more similar to Trump than Hitler’s.

      • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

        Reality Check: I compared Trump to Mussolini and Miller to Goebbels. So I don’t know where you got the Hitler thing.

        • Avatar Tim says:

          My reply was to Terry Turner, who encouraged us to do a bit of research on how Hitler came to power during the late 20s and 30s.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            The thing about Hitler’s rise to power is that it looked like a shit-show clown act (sound familiar?) right up to the point where he seized absolute power. When it happened, it happed almost overnight.

            That’s the fear. Not that he’s replicating Hitler stroke-for-stroke right now—but that his base instincts are the same, and given the opportunity…

          • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

            And now you’re an expert! Sweet!

        • Adrienne Jacoby Adrienne Jacoby says:

          Trouble is, whether you compare him to Hitler or Mussolini, he thinks it is a complement!

      • Avatar Patricia Barrett says:


        Let’s get real here:

        Trump has given speeches openly inciting violence (repeatedly), racial hatred, and xenophobia, and demanding imprisonment for his politcal challengers and detractors.

        Trump didn’t just write “Art of the Deal”. He also wrote full-page ads that appeared in newspapers all over NYC demanding the death penalty for four wrongly accused Black and Hispanic teenagers (BEFORE their trials).

        Trump lost the ACTUAL vote by more than 3 Million.

        Trump’s favorite crowd chant throughout the campaign and beyond was “Lock Her Up!”. He’s now calling for the prosecution and imprisonment of Robert Mueller and a whole slew of other people he considers his political enemies.

        The only reason all these people aren’t in prison is that the U.S. has a much stronger political structure and many more checks and balances than 1930’s Nazi Germany.

        • Avatar Tim says:

          I agree it is a good thing our Republic has so many checks and balances. It is a shame every one of the Democratic candidates wishes to take some away, whether it is 1st amendment protections for “hate” speech, 2nd amendment protections for assault weapons, or that check on urban power – the electoral college (aka the ACTUAL vote).

          • Avatar Patricia Barrett says:

            Speech is not “free” when it incites people to commit multiple murders, numerous violent assaults with serious injuries, and countless other acts of violence and intimidation (as Trump’s inflaming racist, sexist, xenophobic rhetoric has done).

            And I’m sure if you’d like to arm a MILITIA with muskets (the only thing the founding fathers called for or could have foreseen), no one would object. However, the average citizen has no legitimate reason for owning weapons that have no purpose other than to kill dozens of human beings within seconds, even from a distance. The massive proliferation of guns in this country has become a major health and safety threat that should have been dealt with long ago.

            Finally, the electoral college in an antiquated compromise that was created before most of the country even existed. The vote of a college-educated professional in California should carry as much weight as some white supremacist who dropped out of high school in the northern and southern bible belt states (but it doesn’t). There is absolutely nothing wrong with electing a president by ACTUAL vote, where every citizen has an equal voice.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            So checks and balances are OK only when they restrict the other side’s policies? THAT sounds like actual facism to me!

          • Avatar Patricia Barrett says:

            The things I mentioned above deprive large numbers of citizens of the right to live free of injury and harassment, and even of the right to life itself. Your “right” to amass an arsenal does not outweigh the right of hundreds of thousands of people not to be maimed and killed. A powerful person’s “right” to indulge in violence-inciting speech does not outweigh the right of countless people to be free of that violence. However, everyone SHOULD have an equal voice in their government, and the right to have their vote count.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            The 1st does not protect incitement to violence. But you dilute the 1st when you’re convinced that any and everything that you don’t like could possibly inspire someone to violence actually “incites” – the bible, the declaration of independence, etc. But it is funny how all those radical opinion pieces about the ICE “concentration camps” don’t meet your definition of inciting violence, despite the increasing attacks on ICE facilities & staff.

            The 2nd has not maimed or killed hundreds of thousands. ~10,000-15,000 die from others’ gunshots each year in the US – almost all from handguns. Assault rifles account for ~300. On the other hand, unarmed subjects have been slaughted by the *millions*, from Jews in Nazi Germany to the Rohingya genocide still going on today. There is zero question that an armed populace is more free than an unarmed one. But you don’t care about freedom, do you? Not really, you’d rather have the illusion of security and the celebration of superficial diversity behind which you secretly enforce conformity of thought.

            The electoral college ensures that tiny locations with massive populations don’t rule roughshod over all of the bulk of the US (like tiny, densely populated England ruled over expansive colonies). A president needs to recognize that America is more than the clinton achipelago https://www.vividmaps.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Clinton.jpg

          • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

            Patricia, the electoral college is the protection small states have. Do you really think Wyoming’s 3 electoral votes will elect a president. There are 5 million Republican voters in California, more than the total population of half a dozen red states, but because of the winner takes all those 5 million Republican votes are null and void when choosing a president.
            You want to do away with the Electoral College then do away with the winner takes all format, you’ll sing a different tune when those 5 million Republican votes count.

          • Avatar Patricia Barrett says:


            I’d call telling large crowds of people that he’d like to punch his political detractors in the face and see them “carried out on a stretcher” hate speech deliberately meant to incite violence (and it did). In speech after speech Trump has incited hatred and fear, to the point that thousands of his supporters have committed murders, brutal assaults, and countless acts of terrorism and intimidation all over the country based solely on the victim’s race, religion, national origin, etc.

            I attempted to find your “attacks on ICE facilities and staff”. I turned up one incident on radical right-wing conspiracy websites about a lone individual with no proven ties to any group who tried to throw a malotov cocktail at a detention facility in Washington state and was killed by police. It’s too bad right-wingers haven’t been as condemning of the thousands of bombings, arsons, chemical attacks, murders, attempted murders, assaults, kidnappings, and other acts of terrorism committed by right-wing “Christians” against women’s clinics, their staff, and their patients over the years.

            And as far as I can determine, more than a hundred thousand people are killed and maimed by guns in this country every year, given that there are more guns of all types floating around the country than there are people. A national health and safety emergency should have been declared to address this crisis long ago.

          • Avatar Patricia Barrett says:


            I’d wager that there are far more Democrats in California than there are Republicans. America would have been spared the horror of a Trump presidency if presidents were elected by an actual vote of all the country’s citizens. Why should millions of Americans be disenfranchised and deprived of the right to have their vote count?

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Wasn’t it Trump who recently suggested that he can ignore Supreme Court rulings that don’t go his way?

            And isn’t it the new conservative-majority Supreme Court that seems to have forgotten the time-tested principal of legal precedents?

            There’s your checks and balances flying out the window.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            Steve, the checks & balances are that it takes years and multiple administrations to “stack” the Supreme Court. Of course, that would fly out the window if Trump tried to expand the supreme court from 9 to 15 to dilute the opposition’s power.

            That court packing happens to be the strategy suggested by many Democrats for 2021 (along with killing the electoral college, neutering the 1st, and repealing the 2nd outright). So when it comes to facism, 2020 Democrats show it in spades.

            PS: The Supreme Court is not bound by precedent like lower courts. Most of you all rejoiced with a liberal court ruled in favor of Roe against precedent…

        • Avatar Richard Christoph says:


          “He’s now calling for the prosecution and imprisonment of Robert Mueller…”

          I have not seen this and would appreciate learning the source of your information.


  13. Avatar Clare Wheeler-Brandt Hurst says:

    How fortunate for Trump that his followers are so willing and able to interpret for us what he “meant “ as opposed to what he “said “. Otherwise, we might have to trust our eyes and ears. But so much for facts when you can get propaganda from Fox and friends.

  14. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    The Democrats need to take a cue from Audrey Denny, she kicks off her campaign Saturday in Redding. When will the Democrats start their real campaign, October 2020?

  15. Avatar Robert Scheide Sr. says:

    Will we get another Orange drink? If old folks and young folks get off their butts and off their cell phones we could win. RV’s Fascist list if already complete, as noted not all blame should be placed on him. The fact is we are Fascists already and if we don’t rise up it will become permanent.

    The fact of the matter is Trump supporters apparently would prefer to be fascists rather than socialists. They still froth at the mouth at his unending rallies which are no more “Look at me look at me” How great I am!

    For God’s sake people, wake up . This man has already destroyed this country. Most of the EU thinks he is totally insane and they are not wrong. Trade wars with everybody (which just end up hurting us), tariffs, boycotts, wars, threats of wars, Planting evidence of evil doing by are enemies all designed to do what? The list of the countries destroyed is long and still growing.

    I never thought the day would come where I couldn’t argue politics but it is here. The reason this ain’t politics ,IT’S FASCISM.

    • Avatar Candace C says:

      Robert Scheide Sr. I agree with you about fascism. Fascism is not a new concept, Trump is just fascism’s new face. Vote him out and hope that we end up with someone better because cutting off the head of the snake is pointless if what’s left is equally as “Snakey”.

    • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

      Right on, Dad.

  16. Joanne Snyder Joanne Snyder says:

    Superb article R.V. I think we are at the end stage of the empire, but it’s not the worst fate in the world. England “The Sun never sets on….” is alive and well. Spain made a huge mistake by banning Jews and Islamic people in the 1400s (althought the confiscated goods were substantial), but that country still survives.
    I’m afraid that the big issue is the the propoganda machine in our country that makes millions as maleable as the Nazi propoganda machine did in the 30s and 40s. The strange thing to me is that this message is not reaching the working poor in Germany after WWI, it is resonating with people who own their homes, have food to eat and a pension…and a TV that’s on all day.

  17. Holy socks! I’m away from the computer for a day, and I can’t believe all I missed.

    R.V., thanks, as always, for being fearless, which means unafraid to kick the hornet’s nest.

    Barbara, I do believe you deserve a stiff drink as nightcap. Well done.

  18. Avatar Candace C says:

    Barbara, If I was your welcomed neighbor I’d grab a fork and eat that cake right beside you. That is if you’re in the mood to share. After the last couple of days my guess is you’d prefer to keep that cake all to yourself and rightly so I might add!

  19. Avatar Candace C says:

    Barbara, also chocolate cake AND a good stiff drink never hurt anybody!

  20. Frank Treadway Frank Treadway says:

    Back to Audrey Denney and her Kickoff Campaign in Shasta Co. All are welcome on Sat Jul 27, 5:30p-8:30p, Old City Hall-Redding, live music and refreshments. And a chance to meet a person who’ll truly represent us here in the North State, not just a select few. Way time for a change in our political leaders.

    • Avatar Randy says:

      Of all the many ways LaMalfa has failed our region and our countr5y there is no greater failure, no greater deception and no greater irresponsibility than his choice to promote the strategic lie that AGW is a hoax. See you there.

    • Avatar Patricia Barrett says:


      I don’t believe it’s off-topic at all. Bethel Church heavily supports America’s Fascist-in-Chief, and its leaders encouraged their massive following to vote for him throughout the campaign by praising his platform and Trump as an individual (while denigrating is opponent and Democrats in general).

    • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

      That article sources A News Cafe, and obviously the writer has read our stuff. That’s why we do it, to spread the word!

  21. Avatar Patricia Barrett says:

    *his* opponent…

  22. Avatar Mark D Twitchell says:

    Good point, Patricia.

  23. R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

    Funny how the naysayers have strayed into discussing whether Trump/Hitler comparison is valid, or whether a concentration of men, women and children inside a wire fence guarded by armed men is a concentration camp, instead of challenging the claim that America is a fascist country getting more fascist every day. No, they’ll be on shaky ground then.

    • Avatar Tim says:

      In what ways are you less free in 2019 than you were in 2016?

      But I’ll agree America has a facism problem – it just isn’t new! I was certainly a lot less free in 2016 than I was in 2008 – just like I was a lot less free in 2008 than in 2000 and less free in 2000 than 1992 and less free in 1992 than 1988 and less free in 1988 than 1980…

      • Avatar Randy says:

        In 2016 Trump declared AGW to be a hoax and on that false premise he began using his executive privilege to dismantle environmental regulations that hinder the extraction industries and has placed industry heads in charge of agencies overseeing environmental policy. He has opened up protected lands to extraction and has placed NASA in the hands of a politician who also denied the scietific realities of AGW. Do I feel “less free” under Trump? What a strange question. As a human being I feel totally abused by Trump’s blatant abuse of the power of POTUS, as an American I feel misrepresented and nauseated by our self-serving, self-important leader who relishes nothing more than the power to ridicule and trash those who do not serve him. Just curious how Trump has effected you.

      • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

        For once we agree sort of Tim. The erosion of our rights has been going on for decades. I feel less free now because other people are less free.

  24. Avatar Paul says:

    Nice to go through this interesting, informative and generally civil interaction but it oddly stood out to me that the only personal attacks in this thread were hurled by the author. How unfortunate.

    • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

      Let me explain how this works, Paul. I write the stories, then people get to throw tomatoes at me. Sometimes, I throw tomatoes back. When I cross the line, my posts get taken down too.

  25. Avatar James Montgomery says:

    Gosh, I can hardly wait to hear how it will sound when the partisan rhetoric really starts to heat up for the election. Nice to know there will be no serious dialog this time around.
    I am a little saddened, tho. I imagine the Democrats will find someone to run that I dislike even more than I dislike Trump.

    • Avatar Patricia Barrett says:


      If you’re determined to dislike the Democratic candidate, I’m sure you will.

      There’s a lot at stake in the upcoming. election (I’ve heard it referred to as a fight for the “soul” of our nation, which is probably pretty accurate), so some heated dialog might be in order. Thanks to Trump’s appointments, our federal government is now controlled by rabid Old Testament-banging dominionists at the highest levels, and numerous federal courts have been seeded with them. I can guarantee that millions of people take the in-progress loss of 60 years worth of hard-won civil and human rights very seriously.

      • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

        Patricia, I am determined to like the Democratic candidate but none have shown me reason to vote for them. I have never nor will I ever vote for Trump. I will once again protest by writing in a candidate. Calling me a racist will not sway my vote.

        • Avatar Patricia Barrett says:

          I wonder how many people who would otherwise have voted for Clinton wrote in Bernie Sanders instead, or went into a snit and didn’t vote at all because he wasn’t the candidate? It’s not beyond the realm of possibility that those people handed Trump the election. Anyone who really doesn’t want to give Trump four more years to destroy the country will vote for a VIABLE candidate.

          Interesting that Trump’s Attorney General, William Barr (who admitted that he wants to see “God’s law” become the law of the land) has now reinstated the federal death penalty. Executing gay people, disobedient children, “promiscuous” women, etc. etc. is very much part of the “Christian” dominionist agenda.

          The person in the short video below, Lance Wallnau, has co-written books with Bethel Church leader Bill Johnson on world religious domination, and is now a member of Trump’s evangelical “inner circle”. He talks about “sneaking” into positions of power, and other “stealth” activites, which Trump is certainly enabling them to do.


          • Avatar Tim says:

            Where are all these people calling for the execution of promiscuous women and disobedient children? And, as far as I can tell, only a handful of kooks are calling for the death penalty for homosexual acts.

            And, aside from one meeting in 2015, can you point to 1 other time Mr. “inner circle” Wallnau has met with Trump? Megan Rapinoe has more current access than Wallnau…

          • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

            Patricia, what does Bethel or any of your doministic theories have to do with choosing a Democratic candidate? Anybody but Trump is not a winning strategy.
            And Sanders did beat Clinton in Wyoming but the DNC voted for Clinton. That is why Wyoming Democrat party officials were ousted and new ones installed.

          • Avatar Patricia Barrett says:


            The article below is only a few months old. You apparantely aren’t aware that Lance Wallnau (Bethel CEO Bill Johnson’s co-author, close associate, and fellow NAR “apostle”) has special access to Trump for having written a book (“God’s Chaos Candidate”) that delivered millions of evangelical votes to Trump by comparing him to the biblical king Cyrus. He gave fundamentalists an excuse to overlook Trump’s depravity by claiming that this isn’t the first time the god of the Old Testament used evil men to do his bidding.

            Of course these people were so desperate to vote for someone who promised to allow them to discriminate to their heart’s content and push their hate-filled beliefs onto the rest of the population through force of law that it wouldn’t have taken much of an excuse.


          • Avatar Tim says:

            That’s not a news article, it is a post on the hyper-partisan DU forums. And it shows zero evidence that this man has any influence on Trump. Again I ask: when was the last time Wallnau met with Trump? Or even anybody close to Trump??

            And who are these influencial people calling for capital punishment for promiscuous women and disobedient children?

            These outlandish claims do more to hurt your cause than help it – they make people doubt the veracity of actual stuff Trump does / wants to do.

          • Avatar Patricia Barrett says:


            What a shame that you’re so uninformed. I’ve posted numerous links in this forum, as well as several right here on this thread. If you don’t think that being called to the White House just a few months ago (and undoubtedly since) to advise the Trump administration on foreign policy proves the claim in my links that Lance Wallnau is part of Trump’s highly publicized “inner circle” of dominionist evangelicals, nothing will convince you.

            I’d suggest you see my earlier link that features the video of Lance Wallnau talking about “sneaking” into positions of power in order to implement brutal Old Testament law, followed by a list of their objectives.

          • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

            Patricia, Tim is not uninformed. He, like me, reads your links and like me Tim doesn’t agree with your interpretation of those links. That is not uninformed but disagreement.

    • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

      They’re working on it James. The Democrats could easily blow 2020 despite the fact they’re running against the most unpopular incumbent in history. Man-up to Trumpism!

  26. Avatar Candace C says:

    James, while I agree that rabid partisan rhetoric that quickly turns personal doesn’t encourage serious dialogue I’m disappointed by the often touted lament (typically meant as a chastisement to others and some rightly so) that all heated discussion automatically translates to “non-serious”.

  27. Avatar Anita Brady says:

    On another note, that fake Presidential Seal on the Turning Point USA stage was awesome. Made my heart sing.

  28. Avatar Larry Winter says:

    I’ll answer your question RV.


  29. Avatar James Montgomery says:

    I wonder whether the Democrats will figure out that they are losing the moderates by taking extreme positions and engaging in extreme rhetoric?
    The rural people are largely appalled by the urbanist policies of the Dems, as well.
    I would love to see the Dems run someone from near the center, but I suspect I will vote for Trump, holding my nose.

    • Avatar Larry Winter says:

      James, living in California where we have a winner take all, I’ve never held my nose to vote since the Democratic contender always wins and I haven’t voted Democrat since I was fooled by Obama in 2008. He was only the 2nd Dem I voted for president in my lifetime. I’m a Bernie fan in the primaries myself and I don’t see his policies as taking “extreme positions”, though I know it’s all relative. Did you vote for the near center Hillary? I’ve been able to vote my conscience all other times.

      • Avatar James Montgomery says:

        I am registered Libertarian, and usually so vote. The 2-party system is basically a racket. However, the liberal policies of the Dems are anathema to rural people; radical “environmentalism”, oppressive gun policies, small business oppression, etc.
        Yes, I understand that CA is automatically in the Democrat’s pocket, due to the overwhelmingly urban population. I have not felt that my vote counted in a long time (except locally,) but I have this odd civic-duty thing going in my head.

        • Avatar Tim says:

          I truly hope there will be a good Libertarian candidate on the 2020 ballot, but so far I’m mainly seeing extreme anarchist types. I’m still astounded that America ignored Gary Johnson in 2016.

          I simply cannot vote for any of the Democrats – ALL want to take various rights from me. I could never have imagined myself voting for Trump, but we may be heading there. I don’t care for most of his policies and hate his abrasive style, but contrary to media narratives I have seen no evidence that he has taken rights from racial minorities. He would like to make abortion harder to access, which a bit more than half of women think is a women’s rights issue. Aside from that, I fail to see any women’s rights threatened. But Trump has definitely walked back some rights and privileges for the transgendered.

          And Trump has blown up the deficit and more or less maintained Obama’s ridiculous world-wide military patrol. Our armed forces are literally active is all but a handful of countries.

          On the other hand, Trump has put 1 great justice and 1 okay one on the supreme court – both of whom have shown willingness to follow the law to the liberal side of the court when applicable (the liberal justices almost never follow the law to the conservative side). Trump is also helping to unstack the radically liberal 9th circuit – the most overturned circuit in the country. I think 4 more years of Trump judicial picks will help stave off America’s next civil war – at least for a little while.

          But can I vote for him? Yetch. I don’t don’t think so. But daily ridiculous hyperbolic attacks in the news media do make me feel some sympathy for the psychopath. If the media keeps it up I may just get there…

          • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

            Stop pretending you’re a libertarian. But in case you don’t, here’s a riddle for you: Name one country, ever, that had a libertarian government, as conceived by today’s autistic austerity specialists?

          • Avatar Patricia Barrett says:


            You can’t be serious. I don’t know what “poll” you’re looking at, but I’m finding that a vast majority of Americans in general (77 percent – both men and women) favor keeping abortion safe and legal.

            And it wouldn’t matter even if that wasn’t the case. At one time a majority of Americans favored keeping slavery legal, but that didn’t make their position RIGHT.

            In addition, there is nothing “great” about Trump’s appointees. Most are flaming God-in-government dominionists, with a number who have openly admitted that they’d like to use their position to make “God’s law” the law of the land (in violation of the Constitution), and that they want to establish “God’s kingdom” in public/government agencies and institutions, etc.

            There is no greater deprivation of rights than denying women and girls the ability to control their own bodies and futures (an outrage that will affect a tremendous number of minority women, and will relegate many girls and women of all races to lives of poverty and hardship).

            Also, focusing various federal justice departments on prioritizing the rights of white people (particularly white men, as Trump has done) is a definite step backward for the hard-won civil rights of every other group.

            Finally, the mainstream media reports what Trump has actually said and done. Certainly his rhetoric and actions are extreme and harmful, but that’s not the media’s fault.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            Patricia, a 2018 gallup poll showed 51% of women and 46% of men identify as pro life: https://news.gallup.com/poll/244709/pro-choice-pro-life-2018-demographic-tables.aspx

          • Avatar Patricia Barrett says:


            I don’t know what criteria was being used to self-identify as “pro-life”. However, according to the same source (per the link below), two-thirds of Americans favor keeping abortion safe and legal.

            Many people who are pro-choice in the first trimester (when the vast majority of abortions are performed) are against abortion in the third trimester, which only represent 1 percent of abortions. Those people are not actually anti-choice. They simply don’t understand that late-term abortions are performed almost exclusively in response to an extreme medical emergency (a fetus that is already dead in the womb and is poisoning the mother’s system, a horribly deformed fetus that is dying or will die shortly after birth, after much suffering, etc.)

            One thing I found interesting about your link, though, is that the more educated a person is, the more likely they are to support legal abortion. This gives us an indication of how uninformed anti-choicers really are.


  30. Avatar Candace C says:

    I don’t believe there’s anything remotely moderate about our current extreme-rhetoric-in-chief. While voting for Trump I fear one will have to do more than hold their nose, they’ll need to hold on to their personal freedoms. That is unless of course one is male, white, Christian, and straight.

  31. Avatar James Montgomery says:

    My own personal freedoms seem to be more endangered by the Dems, frankly. But then I am white, male and straight, as you suggest. I suppose you will assume that makes me sexist, racist and homophobic. More to the point, though, I am rural. We are a disenfranchised class, in CA and other urbanized states. I doubt that you will understand that, but just consider that alienating the moderates may not be a useful campaign strategy.

  32. Avatar Candace C says:

    James, well, I didn’t assume any such thing about you. I personally don’t know you. If you’re who I think you are I’ve known your lovely wife for years. I was born and raised in Redding and still live here. I do not feel disenfranchised. I hear your comment about election strategy involving moderates and you may very well be right. I hope not. Obviously it’s your right to vote for whomever you want and my right to do the same. Personally I will not be holding my nose when I vote because I will not be voting for Trump.

    • Avatar James Montgomery says:

      Thank you for not making that assumption. I stand corrected.
      Really, I hold all civil liberties dear, but at this point the urbanist liberal agenda threatens my own more than the conservative agenda does. Increasingly so, it appears.
      The 2-party system currently excludes the middle, as well all unconventional viewpoints. Its a racket, supported by the corporately-controlled mass media.
      I admit to being the person you think I am. I can’t help it. 🙂

  33. Avatar Candace C says:

    James, Guess we’ll have to agree to disagree (except of course about the part about you having a lovely wife).

    • Avatar James Montgomery says:

      Well, we certainly do agree that I managed to marry a truly wonderful lady!
      You might be surprised at how much else we agree on; universal healthcare, most of the feminist platform, and a great deal of the gay rights platform.
      Its just that the issues that affect me directly take precedence. I am pretty much forced into the conservative camp by the oppressive liberal agenda.
      And no, I do not expect any liberals to recognize that their policies actually oppress the rural people. This whole discussion thread makes that quite obvious.

  34. Avatar Candace C says:

    James, my apologies since I ended with “agree to disagree” ( which still holds true) I’d like to add that while you say you’re not sexist, racist and/or homophobic (and as I said previously I have no reason to think you are since I don’t know you) in my opinion if one’s vote is for Trump, one’s vote will indeed help to support a sexist, racist, homophobic agenda. While I don’t disbelieve that you yourself feel disenfranchised (since I’m not the thought police), people of color, women, and the LGBTQ+ community (urban and rural) have been feeling disenfranchised (gross understatement) for years. Do I think you’re a racist? You’ve said not and I have no reason to disbelieve you. Do I think Trump is a racist? Absolutely. Do I want a president that pushes a racist agenda? Absolutely not.

    • Avatar Tim says:

      Why is it not considered a racist & sexist agenda when a platform involves repressing rural white men?

      • Avatar Michael Kuker says:

        When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression

        • Avatar Tim says:

          Because white men from places like Hayfork and Bieber are accustomed to privilege simply because they are white and men? How racist & sexist…

      • Avatar Larry Winter says:

        How are we being repressed? Having to piss in a bottle to get a job? Having to secure our dogs in the back of the truck? Getting pulled over for not wearing seatbelts on a rural road going 15 mph? Getting pulled over because “all vehicles going into town are bringing money and those leaving carrying pot”?

        Please elucidate.

        • Avatar Tim says:

          Eliminate electoral college: Removes check on urban power. Presidential elections would increasingly be decided by those with no clue how life works outside the city.

          Medicare for all: Kill off the remaining rural hospitals & health clinics (medicare reimbursement rates require high volume, low quality care)

          Green New Deal: Disproportionately taxes rural Americans who tend to drive farther. Restricts ability use carbon-neutral woodstoves for heat, etc.

          Free first time college: Applies to illegals, but not to middle-aged workers who want to finish a degree or get training in a field now in demand (rural residents disproportionately have “some college”)

          Reparations: Gives tax money to people based on whether they look like they could be descendants of slaves, regardless of actual ancestry or current privilege.

          Repression of the 2nd Amendment: make it harder to exercise 2nd amendment rights, especially for those in rural areas who must now travel great distances to complete a background check every time they need more ammunition.

          Repression of the 1st Amendment: Removing protections for speech that runs contrary to the Democratic platform.

          Weaponizing title ix: removing due process protections for men accused of sexual misconduct at college

          Discouragement of traditional family values: measure success based on income, encourage family members to specialize and spread across the country, discourage multigenerational businesses as patriarchal, discourage stay at home mothers, etc. Show deference toward foreign & exotic religions and hostility towards Christianity.

          • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

            Agree on Electoral College, keeps the cities from imposing their urban life on rural life. Cities are where the air pollution is the highest.
            Medicare for all is best. In real rural America like Wyoming, Nebraska, everywhere in Colorado but Denver, Health providers like UC Health, Banner, are taking over rural areas and making the costs lower and better care for patients.
            Green New Deal has too many opposing agendas to pass. It wants the rich to pay for everything but it also wants to break up the rich. If the rich are no more who is supposed to pay for it?
            Free college is already available, my oldest daughter has a Masters and no student debt. She joined the Army right after graduating from Anderson. For those opposed to military duty they can join community service.
            Reparations, the original Americans, Native Tribes, already have a way to determine what percentage of blood line makes them a tribal member and it has everything to do with ancestry. The same process can be used on “modern Americans”.
            Repression of 2nd Amendment, in real rural America gun shows have a table to fill out background checks as well as gun stores. Buying ammunition from an illegal source should be prohibited.
            Repression of the 1st Amendment, surely you are joking about this because every platform, Democrat and Republican, has tried to silence opposing free speech. Trump is a classic example.
            Weaponising title ix, rape and assault on not just women has been a continual problem in Colleges. And it works both ways as some men who were charged have been proven innocent.
            Discouragement of traditional values, nobody is trying to end traditional values, the world is changing and new family values are being brought forth. And the largest and fastest growing religion is non religion.

          • Avatar Larry Winter says:

            Bruce, thanks. Well said.

          • Avatar Patricia Barrett says:


            Your entire post is uninformed (to say the least), but the last couple of paragraphs are completely out in space. The majority of the population doesn’t want your brutal Old Testament “god” (or any other, regardless of religion) controlling our government and influencing our laws. We have the right to live free of primitive dictates – just as our founding fathers clearly intended.

            It’s also interesting that you describe any religion other than what is apparently your version of Christianity as “foreign” and “exotic”. By whose definition? And of course no one is discouraging stay-at-home mothers. If the family can afford to live entirely on the husband’s salary (many can’t) and both parties in the marriage are agreeable, no one is stopping them.

            Finally, Trump and his minions are devoting various federal justice departments to giving white men special rights and privileges, to the detriment of everyone else. The federal Department of Justice is now focusing on looking for violations against white people (primarily white men) as a priority, and the Department of Education’s Justice Department will no longer extend help to victims of rape and sexual assault on college campuses (where the administrations frequently just sweep those crimes under the rug). In addition, young victims are now being forced to allow their rapists to get right up in their faces and harass them (rather than dealing with attorneys or other representatives during hearings), as a means of discouraging young women from reporting those crimes.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            Bruce: Obamacare & medicare for all are great if you still have access to your local hospital, but over 100 rural hospitals have closed since 2010 due to medicare reimbursement rates not paying enough: https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/us-hospitals-closing-hahnemann/

            As for the 2nd: What good is a 2-day gun show when you have to wait up to 10 days for the CA DOJ to process your ammunition background check? Why must someone in a border town drive hours to the nearest California FFL instead of crossing the state line and buying from Oregon or Nevada?

            The first: Can you show recent examples of Republicans stifling free speech? I can show plenty on the part of democrats – all across campuses, in denying speaking & parade permits, in calling for those holding unpopular views to be fired from government jobs, etc.

            Military for college: There are lots of us who don’t believe we should support an aggressive, expansionist military. Working for our mercenary military enables the US to continue to play World Police. Besides, why are we currently giving illegal aliens free college while denying free college to middle aged workers in need of updated skills?

            Patricia: Devos has merely demanded due process for those accused of crimes on campus. Before that there were dozens of examples of men wrongly expelled after a scorned lover launched an unfounded complaint. Democrats want to go back to the “woman is always telling the truth.”

            And I don’t want Christianity to dictate policy – I’m atheist remember? I’m just pointing out how obviously unfair it is to allow things like practitioners of exotic religions to wear religious head dressings while in police uniform while forbidding Christians from wearing a crucifix. Equal protection for all, bot special privileges for some…

          • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

            Tim, Philadelphia is not rural America. Rural hospitals are being taken over by non profit providers like UC Health. This allows those hospitals to remain in control while being given access to lower costs and specialists who travel to those hospitals which means the patients don’t have to. When I lived in Cheyenne specialists from Denver would come to Cheyenne. No longer did I have to drive to Denver.
            I lived in Wyoming and went to gun shows in Colorado and vice versa. What kind of special ammunition do you require to go out of state?
            Trump is stifling free speech as we post.
            Most people are happy with our military. Where else can a poor rural white kid or a poor urban black kid walk in and get a respected job with a chance of advancement based on their performance?

          • Avatar Tim says:

            Philadelphia isn’t rural, but since Warton is in Philadelphia they focused on the problems facing that hospital while doing a good job discussing the problems also facing rural hospitals. The current list of closed rural hospitals since Obamacare now has 108 entries: https://www.shepscenter.unc.edu/programs-projects/rural-health/rural-hospital-closures/

            And there isn’t anything special about the ammo across state lines except that it is a 7 mile drive to a gun shop in Arizona from Needles vs a 100 mile drive to the closest California gun shop.

          • Avatar Candace C says:

            Tim, how do those positions translate to white men being repressed? That would mean that according to your logic only white men vote, own guns and buy ammunition, seek private healthcare, are accused of rape on campus colleges, have “traditional” families, support stay-at-home moms ( apparently not stay at home dads), are persecuted Christians and what else? Oh ya, live in rural America, have cars and have to drive far. Using your logic it certainly sounds like it’s a white man’s landscape already. Guess it depends on who’s doing the landscaping as to who’s being threatened with a platform of repression, huh?

          • Avatar Tim says:

            Those are rights that disproportionately impact rural white men and why I could use Democratic identity politic logic to lob that same “sexist and racist” label right back at all the mainstream Democrat candidates.

            If I’m forced to choose between the lesser of two fascists, why shouldn’t I pick the fascist more like me?

            A better question is why does the Democratic party insist on putting forth its own brand of fascism? Why can’t they take the high road and fight for equal rights instead?

          • Avatar Larry Winter says:

            Tim, nearly 3/4 of the hospitals that closed (73) were from states that rejected medicaid expansion that Obamacare provided. Did this make a difference?

            Locally, Trinity County’s hospital is publicly owned through a health care district. We’ve passed two bond measures to support it and recently we’ve been told we can miss a payment because the hospital is doing so well. The hospital in Fall River Mills is expanding, adding a wing.

          • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

            Wyoming rejected Medicaid expansion and Obamacare folded in the state leaving no ACA provider. The state stepped in and took over all those failed ACA patients. Then UC Health moved into Wyoming, like many other rural areas, and brought lower costs and better care to Wyoming’s patients. My own doctor, a longtime Cheyenne resident, said UC Health brought Wyoming into the 21st Century.
            The same thing happened in Arizona and Banner is the main provider lowering healthcare costs and providing better care. I go to Banner.

          • Avatar James Montgomery says:

            Tim, thank you for laying it out specifically. While I (of course) do not agree on all of the specifics, in general your statement is quite cogent. The fact that not one liberal paid any real attention to them, other than to dispute specifics, shows that they are unwilling to consider the possibility that the rural people (women as well as men,) are disenfranchised.

      • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

        Whose platform Tim? Are you talking about stupid Hillary Clinton’s “deplorable” statement? Both the Democrats and the Republicans are anti-working class, it doesn’t matter if you live in Bieber or Baltimore. Wake up.

        • Avatar James Montgomery says:

          When you tell someone to “Wake up,” you insult them. Not a valid mode of argument, nor a very good way of convincing anyone of anything.

  35. Avatar Patricia Barrett says:

    A vote for Trump is most definitely a vote for racism, sexism, homophobia, and the (well underway) religious take-over of our government.

    America has finally begun to outgrow the so-called “conservation agenda”, so of course there is a very well-organized and financed political backlash from the religious “right”, corporate powers, and white male supremacist organizations and individuals.

    If the world survives Trump and his ilk, America will eventually evolve into a country where the rights of all of its citizens will carry equal weight (hopefully that will also include the right of hundreds of thousands of people each year to be free of injury and death because there are more guns of all types floating around the country than there are people).

  36. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    California, the most populous state, the fifth largest economy in the world, with more Fortune 500 headquarters than any other state, the state that sets emission standards for the country and world, is not even a swing state when it comes to choosing a president. In the, not in the constitution, winner takes all California will go with the Democrat candidate. That hurts the down ballot candidates more than any other state. Audrey Denny will never win because the Democrats won’t show up to vote. Instead of posting Trump hatred you should be posting why the Democrats should vote in the 1st District.
    Arizona is a swing state as is Colorado. Texas is a swing state. California is only good for fund raising and that is the only reason candidates come to the state, for fund raising.

  37. Avatar Patricia Barrett says:

    It’s true that voters in California are disenfranchised in presidential elections by the antiquated electoral college (created before most of the country even existed). It’s time to start treating EVERY citizen as though their vote counts (as it should). As I’ve said before, a college-educated professional in California should have as much say in the election of a president as a white supremacist high school drop-out in the northern or southern bible-belt states.

    And if Audrey Denny isn’t elected it won’t be because Democrats aren’t voting. It will be because they are vastly outnumbered in this sparsely-populated district by gun-toting, pollution-denying LaMalfa and Trump throwbacks.

    • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

      Patricia, Audrey Denny needs those votes of people who you call white supremacist low educated, gun toting, pollution denying voters. There are many Trump voters in the 1st District that would like to see LaMalfa replaced but will not vote for Denny because a few of her supporters call them deplorables. You are Audrey Denny’s worst enemy. I suppose that will be deleted.
      The Electoral College means presidential candidates have to campaign to all the people, not just to city dwellers. Even the DNC admits that.

  38. Avatar Patricia Barrett says:


    Trump-supporting right-wingers won’t vote for Denny because they wouldn’t vote for a Democrat if their lives depended on it. Jim Reed was about as right-wing as he could get without having a “R” behind his name, and they wouldn’t vote for him either.

    These people couldn’t care less what “a few Denny supporters” have to say. However, my opinion (which I share in common with many other people) would change if Trump/LaMalfa supporters started voting for people like Audrey Denny.

    • Avatar Tim says:

      Jim Reed was a Berkeley liberal rated 0 by the NRA, campaigning on redistributing wealth, defending Obamacare, and propping up unions.

      • Avatar Patricia Barrett says:

        I seem to recall that Jim Reed had a lot to say in favor of gun rights, and against any restrictions or limitations. He was very much pro-gun, which I assume was an attempt to appeal to the majority of voters in his district.

        And if we all don’t start “propping up unions”, the only people not working for starvation wages and no benefits will be corporate CEO’s (that’s the REAL “redistribution of wealth”).

        • Avatar Tim says:

          Collusion is bad unless done by workers?

          • Avatar Beverly Stafford says:


          • Avatar Tim says:

            Unions work by allowing and encouraging workers to collude to set prices (wages) higher than their natural state.

            It is illegal for employers to collude with one another to pay lower wages than a competitive market would set. It is illegal for service providers to collude to charge more for a service than a competitive market would allow.

          • Avatar Larry Winter says:

            Apples and oranges Tim. Unions BARGAIN with employers to get what they “colluded” for.
            Employers just implement their secret collusion results.

      • Avatar James Montgomery says:

        I have had professional exposure to Jim Reed. In my opinion he is a man of great personal integrity and fairly moderate political views.
        I voted for him, quite happily.

      • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

        Cutting taxes for the rich is redistributing wealth, phony Lib.

        • Avatar Tim says:

          No, the rich pay a disproportionate share while ~45% of Americans pay no net federal income taxes.

    • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

      Patricia, you are wrong. As a Conservative I manned phones at the CSEA office on Hilltop calling voters at election time to vote for the California State Education Head. Many were anybody but a Democrat voters. After explaining, calmly without calling them flaming white extremists, the difference between the Republican and Democrat candidates. A few thanked me and said they would vote Democrat for the first time. The Democrat won.
      So don’t tell me 1st District voters won’t vote for a Democrat.

  39. Avatar Patricia Barrett says:


    A few fence-sitters who may have decided to vote Democratic doesn’t mean that any notable percentage of the 70 percent or so who voted for LaMalfa/Trump in far northern California are going to vote for Audrey Denny (or anyone else who doesn’t claim to be a flaming God, Guns, and my-country-right-or-wrong fanatic).

    I know Trump supporters like to pretend that Clinton lost because she claimed half of Trump supporters were “deplorables” (personally I think she was too generous, and of course anyone was free to consider themselves among the half she DIDN’T mean). However, when we look at who actually voted for Trump – poorly educated white men (and to a lesser extent their female counterparts) Old Testament-banging fundamentalist “Christians” ( highly organized political force that made up 26 percent of all voters), and other of their ilk – it becomes apparent that this election was all about racism, sexism, xenophobia, homophobia, etc.

    And if we needed any other proof of that fact, there were the thousands of incidents of violence and intimidation committed by Trump supported following the election in apparent celebration of his victory. It got so bad – (and was so thoroughly documented – that Trump was finally forced to acknowledge it, so he just said “Stop it” (how worthless is that?)

    • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

      Patricia, how easy you forget all the violent “He is not my president” violence committed by the Clinton losers.

      • Avatar Patricia Barrett says:

        I have a hard time comparing the multiple murders, numerous physical assaults with serious injuries, and countless acts of intimidation, harassment, vandalism, etc. committed by Trump supporters against victims based solely on their race, religion, nationality, gender, sexual orientation, etc. to anti-fascists fighting with Nazis and other white supremacists who are pushing their way into places they aren’t wanted, and breaking some windows in the process.

  40. Avatar Candace C says:

    Tim, “Why can’t they take the high road and fight for equal rights instead?” Exactly. Only apply that to (using your words) rural white men. Maybe we can agree on one thing. The back and forth lobbing of identity politic’s labels as a “ gotcha” argument is both fruitless and uninspired. I know I’m guilty of it. That said, you vote your conscience and I’ll vote mine. That feels equitable to me.

    • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

      Here’s the deal: Both parties are against the working class, whether you live in Bieber or Baltimore.

  41. Avatar Cheri McGraw says:

    I am one who works to gather the info from thos polls. As much as i hate to say it…Be prepared for 4 more years

    • Avatar Beverly Stafford says:

      Cheri, I regret that I can’t disagree with your assessment, but I fear that you’re absolutely correct. Fox News adherents and the religious right will probably prevail in 2020. I see no way to prepare for it nor to turn the tide.

    • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

      Cheri, are these the same pollsters that predicted Hillary Clinton would win in a landslide?

      • Avatar Patricia Barrett says:


        Hillary Clinton actually did win by more than 3 million votes. I think many people were ashamed to admit they planned to vote for Trump. It was definitely an election in which the lowest common denominator flooded the polls.

        Trump is one of only five presidents in the entire history of the country who ascended to the presidency without also winning the popular (actual) vote. It’s long past time to get rid of the antiquated electoral college, which was created before most of the country even existed. Why should a relatively small number of voters in backward, low-education northern and southern bible-belt states be given more of a voice in the election of the president than millions of other people?

        • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

          Patricia, in California’s winner take all 5 million Republican votes did not count. Add that 5 million total, just in California alone, with other winner take all states and Trump wins in a landslide.
          The Electoral College is in the constitution. Winner takes all isn’t.
          Why do liberals want to change the law of the land because they are too lazy to field a better team?

          • Avatar Patricia Barrett says:

            There are considerably more Democrats in California than Republicans, which would have made Clinton’s lead much greater.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            Which means many Republicans don’t bother to vote in California – something Democrats could fix by apportioning their electors based on the state’s popular vote.

            But CA democrats enjoy suppressing Republican voters. Just the other day Newsom smirked with glee while preventing Trump’s name from being on the ballot.

          • Avatar Larry Winter says:

            Tim, the only thing that would keep Trump off of the California ballot is Trump himself. The State is acting on the people’s behalf in ensuring we have important information on candidates running for President and Governor. I buy this argument.

            I do agree that the winner take all electoral votes isn’t fair and 48 States use it. There’s some lawsuits claiming it’s unconstitutional that are working their way through the system.

            Or maybe we should heed the words of George Mason in defending State Legislatures as the vehicle to select electors

            ” 1792: State legislatures emerge as the preferred method of selecting presidential electors. George Mason of Virginia defended this method at the Constitutional Convention by arguing that “It would be as unnatural to refer the choice of a proper character for a chief Magistrate to the people, as it would to refer a trial of colors to a blind man.””

          • Avatar Tim says:

            What if the next governor says it is in the public’s interest that each candidate submit to an IQ test? Or in this me too era, how about a genital examination to document distinguishing features? Or maybe a DNA test? How about we time how fast they can run a mile?

            Or why not take all dignity out of it and just let Nickelodeon make a gameshow out of the election — winner is the candidate with the least amount of slime?

    • Avatar Miguel says:

      Isn’t Trump seriously under water in a lot of the swing states? I think I’m seeing different polling. Of course, polling against “generic Democratic candidate” is pretty fanciful in the first place. Let’s wait until the Ds have things sorted a bit?

  42. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    Before the 2016 election Trump loudly blasted President Obama’s Trans Pacific Treaty. Unions and many Chamber of Commerce did too. Some Democrats also questioned the trade agreement. Clinton meekly said she would look into it, if she had taken a strong stance against the trade agreement like Trump did than those Midwestern states that voted for Trump would have voted for her.
    Anyone paying even a little attention to the DNC riff know that the biggest issue is whether they want a fire brand like Warren or another meek candidate like Clinton was. That doesn’t bode well for Biden. Warren is the 2020 version of a Democrat Trump.

    • Avatar Larry Winter says:

      You’re kidding about Warren being a 2020 version of Trump, right? Since when do you compare a TV personality and conniving wheeler dealer with a consummate policy wonk who is looking out for those without political and economic power?

      Bernie came out strongly against the TPP and he would have beaten Trump, and still could, I believe.

      • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

        Sanders or Warren are two being touted as firebrands in the Trump mold. Trump made all kinds of promises and Warren and Sanders are doing the same.
        Sanders would have beaten Trump but he was denied the Democrat candidacy because of proven meddling by Clinton.
        Anybody but a Clinton clone is what the Dems are after.

  43. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    The Democrat Debates are over for now and the clear winner. Drumroll, Donald Trump.

    • Avatar Patricia Barrett says:

      Trump can’t open his mouth without spewing blatant lies, making inane and idiotic remarks that expose how little he knows about the subject under discussion, and/or making highly offensive racist, sexist, xenophobic statements.

      During debates with Clinton he would slink around behind her when she was speaking and loom over her in an attempt to intimidate and rattle her (it didn’t work). No doubt his followers loved that chest-thumping act of sexist intimidation, just as they loved all the other sexist crap his campaign was loaded with.

  44. Avatar George says:

    When we place wealth above common human decency, that is an indicator that we have truly lost our way. When we measure the health of a society by it’s wealth rather than by fairness and goodness, we are indeed lost.

  45. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Very good job R.V! Really about the only thing missing is some discussion about Trump’s Pathology.

    Well it’s probably 2-3 different disorders but the main one that over 1000 Psychologists agree on is the NPD. Narcissists only care about themselves. No one else. Not their Country not their Neighbor, just themselves.They have empathy or compassion ( thumbs up with the baby left after parents were murdered Photo Op). They can never be wrong. It’s always someone else’s faulty. People are conspiring to “get them”. They are Master of Projection. If you want to know what the Prez did listen closely…when he accuses someone else of ______ fill in the blank….good chance he did that.

    You can’t fix a person with NPD. It’s like a broken 45 spinning on the Victrola. It sounds pretty bad.It can’t change….It’s Broken.

    I see the Prez is also spending a boat load on Social Media asking that you respond to the “Attack on him” from the Media and Join the fight. Your Tax Dollars Hard at work there! Just sign up with your email to learn the Truth he says!

    Climate Change is Hoax the Trumpster’s say…..yep…we have about 40 years left on this planet before half of it is not habitable because of the high temps. I guess there are a lot of folks that don’t really love their grand kids?

    Now that we are pulling out of the Nuclear Agreements its every Country for themselves. Look at what happened in Russia. A Cruz Missile blew up with Nuclear Materials on it and people are going to be dying left and right from the fall out. Russia is moving full speed ahead with their Nuclear Program. I am sure that thrilled Putin.

    Keep adding those Tariffs and watch as we plunge into a Recession. Ask any Farmer out there and they will explain how they would be going bankrupt without Federal Bailouts right now. “He took our Markets away they cry out”. But will they vote for him again? Probably, depends on how good that bail out money is?

    Like I said a year or year and a half ago. This Nothing Burger is going to feed a LOT of people!

  46. Avatar Common Sense says:

    The single biggest obstacle to Trump not winning re- election could be the Economy and not Joe Biden. Well that and getting Impeached that is. When you read the Mueller Report you can clearly see there are 5 clear Obstruction of Justice findings. What does this mean if he doesn’t get re-elected? It means he will be charged along with others.

    The Dem’s need to get a clear voice and soon or they are not Guaranteed a win. After all, everyone just knew Hillary was a shoe in! Well, until we later learned about Russia’s help that is! With Moscow Mitch blocking all attempts to shore up Voting Security it kind of makes you wonder…mmmmm

    The Mueller Report has been downloaded approx 800 MILLION Times! So obviously not only the Americans have read that report. Have you>?

    I am still amazed at all that voted for him that call themselves Christians. Jesus said to love everyone, but we have a racist president? Either he will lose the vote of those actually following the good book or those that voted for him will need to admit that they themselves are racist also. Can’t have it both ways….you know the Adultery….the Lying all the time,breaking laws,attacking others verbally. Can’t find any of that in the bible that says that’s the way Jesus wants it?

    If you voted for him the first time….shame on him…..if you vote for him a second time and call yourself a Christian….Shame on you. He duped everyone the first time. Will you allow him to dupe you again if you vote for him?