Open Conversation for October 2019

...
Comment Policy: We welcome your comments, with some caveats: Please keep your comments positive and civilized. If your comment is critical, please make it constructive. If your comment is rude, we will delete it. If you are constantly negative or a general pest, troll, or hater, we will ban you from the site forever. The definition of terms is left solely up to us. Comments are disabled on articles older than 90 days. Thank you. Carry on.

417 Responses

  1. Avatar Beverly Stafford says:

    Goodbye September. What will October’s comments be like?

  2. Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

    I’m a little confused. Why do some readers of this forum believe that a lively discussion of high-profile current events is a bad thing?

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      Call it “outrage fatigue”?

      “Aaaagh! You’ve been humping the same key on the piano for the entire effing month! Dear God, ENOUGH!”

      Something like that.

    • Avatar Candace C says:

      Patrecia, outrage fatigue or not I believe it’s called Open Conversation for a reason. There are some commenters whose comments I skip right on by (as I’m sure others do with my comments) and others that I take more interest in. I don’t think it’s quite fair to snipe at folks from the sidelines if I’m not interested in what they have to say or the topic at hand. It’s not like it’s required reading. One has total freedom to try and change the direction of the conversation if one chooses; it may not work but there are no rules against trying.

  3. Avatar Chris Solberg says:

    I finally have her picture – I knew of this homeless woman being attacked as she was only a hundred feet or so away when the other homeless man was filmed by Juvenal’s kicking another sleeping homeless person some time ago at the downtown Redding parking structure. I believe this woman deserves an interview about her experiences getting kicked in the face as a homeless minority female dont you? Ive been told she has Tourette’s syndrome. I have been at this long enough to know if a news story is done compassion is generated and there would be a good chance somebody could take her in and she will not have to sleep in that hellish downtown parking structure where she sleeps to this day across street from Enjoy store. Please consider her for an interview.

  4. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    New month already? Sooo…what do y’all think of this Donald Trump fella? Crazy stuff, eh?

  5. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    Vice President Pence will be in Green Valley, AZ(where have I heard that town before) Thursday to talk Mexico/US trade. Oh and talk about Senator McSally’s election bid.

  6. Avatar Larry Winter says:

    Today my wife and I got to watch our County Supervisor storm out of a meeting proclaiming the agenda item at hand was illegal and he didn’t want to take part in it.
    Turns out he was right, the problem is the board president signed an agreement with a litigator and paid out $95,000 nearly a month ago before a legitimate vote was taken. That’s what this meeting was for but knowledge that the payout had already happened only became public after a member of the public pressed them on it.
    The resolution failed on a 2-2 vote. What happens now? Do they ask the plaintiffs for the money back? Lol!

  7. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Deutsche bank should be a bit worried now, as Adam Schiff, now has a Treasure Trove of Internal Documents that have been provided to him.

    This will be a most memorable month in History to date. I think that was the presidents number one bank?

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7526427/Adam-Schiff-dossier-insider-information-Donald-Trumps-main-lender-Deutsche-bank.html

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      CS sez, “…Adam Schiff has a dossier of insider information from Donald Trump’s main lender Deutsche bank …”
      I’m sorry to say that the Daily Mail does not have a very good record for accuracy. But you’ll believe it wholeheartedly anyway, c’est la vie. Remember, this is the same Adam Schiff that swore he had proof of collusion. Proof that he never seemed to be able to provide. Careful CS…your hair is on fire again.

      • Avatar Common Sense says:

        Doug I understand your Cognitive Dissonance and Assimilation deficiency. I don’t hold that against you one bit. There are approx 38% of the voters out there that share that in common with you.

        I appreciate your view for Contrast Doug, for with out that we would never learn and grow….right.

        Discounting……Deflection…… how about this Doug…..answer this question….Why Specifically did the President With Hold a Boat load of Money from Ukraine? What was the Reason behind that move???….We are waiting…..And China Doug…..why did the Prez slap those Tariffs on? The Real Reason Doug?…….because he has been doing to China what he has been doing to the Ukraine…..kind of like a Mob Boss Doug……..you know……see it my way Jimmy…..or Guido is going to hold that money for awhile…..or else.

        Doug what is the “actual” reason the Prez doesn’t want his taxes seen??…….Ya think there might be a little something in that pile Doug?

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          Yes CS…I get it, you don’t like the president. I’m sure you also thought President Bush dressed in a Ninja suit and blew up the WTC…and I’m sure you thought President Reagan was a war criminal. That is always the lefts narrative. All GOP presidents are evil and Democrat presidents walk on water. Ok… whatever, believe what you want,

  8. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    September arrives and the real Cult taking over the nation is in full swing, College football. It is filling huge stadiums coast to coast with numbers that any other group would envy. The amount of money brought in is staggering. Nebraska, even though it has done poorly lately, fills it’s stadium for a record ever year. Trying to get a motel room within 100 miles of Lincoln on Game Day is impossible. The same is true for many college teams.
    California is trying to kill this with their effort to pay athletes but this is an effort that the state will lose. As it stands these athletes get a possible shot at the pot of gold, pro career, that only a small percentage will actually get. But the others will get a free education with no student debt. That is better than what others do to get a free education, like my daughter and her husband, join the military.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      California’s new law doesn’t make it lawful for universities to pay their student-athletes. It allows athletes to independently make their own endorsement deals, using their names and likenesses. It also makes unlawful any retaliation by the NCAA (I’m not familiar enough with the issue to know if that’s enforceable).

      If California prevails on the NCAA issue, I predict a short-term recruiting boon for California’s currently beleaguered Pac 12 schools in sports that move merchandise—mainly football and basketball. That will put enormous pressure on other states to follow California’s example.

      • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

        There is a four year wait on implementing the endorsement plan because no one knows for sure if it is legal or illegal. And this would end California’s participation in NCAA play, not the other way around. The SEC rules college football and they set the rules.

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          We’ll see, Bruce. I think the federal courts will probably have the final say.

          As for the NCAA…it’s a non-profit, but it’s a billion-dollar organization. I don’t think they’re going to rush to throw whole states or even conferences overboard—it’ll cost them too much money. They’re already softening their opposition from “not only no, but hell no” to “hey, we all just need to get on the same page.”

          I was shocked, incidentally, that the bill was passed *unanimously* by the California legislature. How often do bills come up that both sides of the aisle look at and every last legislator concludes: “Yeah, this is the right thing. It needs to happen.”

          • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

            Steve, you may be right. A state senator in New Mexico has initiated a athlete endorsement bill.

    • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

      College athletes should be paid commensurate to the wealth they bring into their respective universities. The purity of the “amateur athlete” is long gone, but is still used to exploit college-level players, with admin and coaches taking the lion’s share of the loot.

  9. Avatar Chris Solberg says:

    “And they will know we are christian by our love … by or love … And they will know we are christian by our love”

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/jury-deciding-sentence-police-officer-amber-guyger-wrong/story?id=66002182

  10. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    Name your top three deceased public figures you wish were still alive to comment on the ongoing shit-show that’s happening in our country. I’ll go first (in no particular order): Molly Ivins, Mark Twain, George Carlin,

    “Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of ’em are stupider then that.”
    —George Carlin

    • Barbara Rice Barbara Rice says:

      Joseph Welch, Barry Goldwater, Walter Cronkite.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        Goldwater is an interesting choice. My dad’s family were Western Colorado ranchers, as were my wife’s family. Goldwater was the classic Western libertarian “just leave me the f*** alone” Republican, before the party sold its soul to religious extremists, gun-humpers, and corporate money. He’s an iconic example of an extinct species.

        William F. Buckley is another guy who’d be horrified by the current body politic, and would have issued funny and biting critiques. Of course, he’d immediately be marginalized, like George Will and Sen. John McCain.

        • Barbara Rice Barbara Rice says:

          I have no fondness for Libertarianism but Goldwater, who started out conservative and turned Libertarian, seemed to understand the balance between it and government oversight. And he despised the influence of religious figures in politics.

          • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

            An interesting read, published occasionally by AZ Republic, is a letter written by Barry Goldwater on what the next fifty years would look like in the country. Though a few items were unseen it is amazing how spot on he was.
            And he loved Arizona.

      • Avatar Linda Cooper says:

        I too would select Barry Goldwater, interesting that I’ve been thinking of him lately. Also Walter Cronkite. People like my trump supporting sister just might believe him. After that, Ray Bradbury. Well, we were limited to three choices.

    • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

      Steve, I can’t pass it up, The Three Stooges. Or are they already commenting?

    • Avatar Gary Tull says:

      The fact that sizable enough numbers supported Trump at the 2016 ballet box validates the notion that those voters were paying little attention at the time and being rather stupid.

      George Carlin, I miss you and your brilliant observations.

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        That is why the Democrats lost…their condescending belief that all Trump supporters are stupid and deplorable

        • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

          Doug Cook,

          You keep making that claim, even though it’s non-sensical. Anyone offended by Hillary Clinton’s statement that half of Trump supporters are a basket of deplorables (personally I think she was being too generous) would have voted for Trump regardless.

          And the Democrats “lost” because the electoral college (an antiquated compromise created before most of the country even existed) deprives millions of Americans of an equal voice in selecting a president.

          It’s not a problem when the president-elect gets both the actual vote and the electoral college vote. However, it failed miserably this time, since Trump was one of only five presidents in the entire history of the country who was handed the presidency while losing the real vote.

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          That isn’t why the Democrats lost. They lost because people are wising up to the fact that the middle and working classes have been getting screwed for almost 35 years, and Hillary was a status-quo candidate. The Rust Belt and America’s Breadbasket rolled the dice on Trump. They made a big mistake.

        • Avatar Tim says:

          Patrecia: The electoral college is “the real vote.” And, aside from an unusual reconstruction-era compromise, nobody has won a majority of the popular vote and lost the election.

          Steve: The democratic party is the party of condescension. They’re the party that tells doers “You didn’t build that” while trying to convince >70% of the population that they should feel aggrieved and that they need extra special government protection from white men. If all the pols are going to play identity politics, shouldn’t I back the bigot fighting for me instead of the bigots fighting against me?

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Tim,

            What a bizarre comment. Clinton “won a majority of the popular vote and lost the election” (if you can call that “losing”).

            And what you actually voted for is someone who promised to return the country to its ugly racist, sexist, Old Testament-banging past, and to chip away at 60 years of hard-won civil rights so that white men, their female coat tail riders, and hate-mongering white “Christians” can be given special treatment at everyone else’s expense.

            No one plays “identity politics” like Trump. He based his entire campaign and presidency on inciting fear and prejudice against dark-skinned “others”, non-Christians, and members of vulnerable minority groups. He has openly (and successfully) incited violence against those groups, and is now working on making it “legal” to throw gay people out of their jobs and homes, and to discriminate against them in every other way imaginable.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            No, Clinton did not win a majority of the popular vote. 52% of voters picked someone else.

            And the more you call me deplorable and sexist, the more I feel like being so.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            She got 3 million more votes than the demented criminal sitting in the Oval Office, and would have been President if the outdated electoral college hadn’t denied millions of Americans the right to have a say in their government.

            The rest of your remark is one of the most childish things I’ve ever read (and I doubt you need any encouragement).

          • Avatar Tim says:

            Clinton won only 21% of the country! The electoral college balanced that extreme rural unpopularity against her getting 48% of the popular vote and compromised by awarding her 43% of electors.

            But rather than appeal to the vast segments of the country it has continually shunned, the Democratic party wants to change the rules. Who are the authoritarians again?

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Hey Patrecia, I know you have an affinity for your Antifa friends…even going as far as blaming an elderly couple for being attacked by Antifa awhile ago. Here is another one for you. Another elderly couple…one using a walker, being harassed and intimidated by your peaceful group. What was this couple’s crime? Going to see Dave Rubin. So I guess they deserved it, right?
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mtIwff6E_U

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Doug Cook,

            The “elderly” man you’re referring to deliberately drove his luxury vehicle into people protesting police violence against minorities, striking a man who had the right-of-way in a crosswalk. Local authorities considered charging the driver with vehicular assault (and should have), but realized that alt-right hate groups would tear the city apart. The very fit-looking and confrontational “elderly” man suffered NO injuries or harm from protestors.

            And all I see in your video above is an older couple walking up to several stationary protestors, followed by an inaudible verbal exchange. Where is your outrage over the multiple murders, numerous violent physical assaults, and countless acts of harassment and intimidation committed by Trump supporters, to the point where your president was finally forced to say “Stop it” (which was a totally inadequate and insincere response).

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            I figured you would want to try and justify this disgusting act…calling an elderly woman pushing a walker “Nazi scum” (it wasn’t inaudible) is the height of despicable…Oh, by the way, what were they protesting? A talk by Dave Rubin (Google him).

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Doug Cook,

            That chant was taking place all over the demonstration, and undoubtedly started well before the elderly couple confronted protestors in your obviously staged video.

            Also, you didn’t mention that this was actually a political fundraiser (in Canada) for an ultra-right-wing candidate for Canadian Prime Minister, and had very little to do with Dave Rubin, who was there simply to endorse this extremist candidate.

            Finally, Dave Rubin is a heavy promoter of Turning Point U.S.A., which encourages students to give TPUSA the names of what they deem “liberal” university professors. Those names then appear on a black list, often followed by death threats and other forms of harassment. Rubin also gives worst-of-the-worst white supremacists a very sympathetic platform on his show, and is plainly a supporter of the alt-right.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            “the elderly couple confronted protestors”…how dare that evil 80 year old women pushing a walker confront a 30 year old innocent child. She deserved to be called Nazi scum. Come on Patrecia…are you for real? I didn’t think even you could justify this act. But, you never cease to amaze me. Another example why nobody can ever take you seriously.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Doug Cook,

            I’m also 81 years old and use a walker, yet you have no trouble assigning all kinds of nefarious motives to me.

            The people who staged your video tried to cut as much as possible so that we would only see the few seconds they want us to see. However, it’s still apparent that the couple approached the small group of protestors (instead of the other way around), and that she was ramming her walker into one guy’s foot, which was undoubtedly an attempt to goad him into committing some kind of violence (it didn’t work).

            In addition, whatever lengthy diatribe her husband (or fellow actor?) was trying to incite the protestors with most definitely IS inaudible.

            You are being disingenuous (again) by pretending a chant that was plainly being used by everyone throughout this protest was directed exclusively at this one couple. And of course this woman is now all over YouTube claiming that her rights were violated.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Tim — I agree with you that the Democrats’ biggest fault is their insistence on cultivating a “more victimized than thou” culture of the aggrieved, where subgroups of the victimized compete with each other over who has it worst.

            One thing I like about Bernie: His message is: “It’s not *all* about economic disparity, but it’s 90% about economic disparity, so let’s get on the same page and focus on that.”

    • Avatar Candace C says:

      Steve,
      Edward R. Murrow
      Dorothy Thompson
      Eddie Izzard (my cheat because still alive)

    • Avatar Larry Winter says:

      Here’s my 3 Steve. Jonathan Swift, George Orwell and Charlie Chaplin

    • Joanne Snyder Joanne Snyder says:

      Zbigniew Brzezinski, Mark Twain and hummm, Archie Bunker

    • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

      Alexander Cockburn, Herman Melville, H.L. Mencken

  11. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    Is the Teflon Don in trouble this time? Could be. Senator Romney has said Trump was wrong but that’s expected from him. When Nebraska Senator Sasse, a solid build the wall and lock up the illegals politician, said Trump is wrong that should be a concern for the rapid right of the GOP.

  12. Avatar Candace C says:

    I may not always agree with Patrecia but that doesn’t mean I don’t take her seriously because I do. A “nobody takes you seriously” statement is akin to Trump’s “everybody’s saying it” (when they’re obviously not) stuff. It’s one thing to say you don’t take someone seriously, it’s quite another to say nobody does.

  13. Avatar Common Sense says:

    So what do we have to look forward to in the next week or two out of that big Ol House in D.C?

    Well, more Whistleblowers, that’s pretty much a given. More Republicans trying to figure out I am better off in the Election for or against the Orange guy and more developments on the N Korea-“We are not even close to a deal” talk.

    It was a slow day for the Prez, one of the few days during his Presidency that he didn’t golf today!…..he golfed during the natural disasters and the other important times but not today.

    If he were smart he would be meeting to draft his Resignation and try and shorten the time in Jail and perhaps Negotiate keeping some of his assets….the Golden Toilet for one!

    I think we shall see more and more commentators/show hosts switching gears…..holding their guests accountable more….starting to prepare for a Post Trump day. Who knows….maybe even being Neutral on Fox News soon?

    And the $64,000 Question….what WILL Fox News do once he is gone from the big house?…..mmmm

    Only one lifeboat left on the sinking ship…..ding….ding

  14. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Today’s Key word- “Projection”

    Next we will learn after having Trump and Giuliani trying to talk Ukraine leaders into digging up dirt on Biden they they themselves have been trying to shake down a Ukraine Gas Company!

    https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/05/rick-perry-ukraine-trump-030230

    Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani just got caught trying to extort huge amounts of money out of a Ukraine gas company.

    The Pots calling the Kettle Black?

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      You know, CS…out brilliant founding fathers spent an inordinate amount of time debating how much power the presidency should yield. They ensured checks and balances and made sure that the powers of the presidency was limited. Quit clutching your pearls and getting the vapors over the president. Your obsession over President Trump is not healthy. The country survived other crappy presidents just fine, and we have had plenty, believe me.
      The economy is doing well. Consumer confidence is high, ISIS is decimated. Relax…not a big deal. He’ll be out of office in a year or so…or 4 years or so. Not the end of the world.

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        The myth that “the economy is doing well” is now being debunked. Large segments of the population are NOT “doing well”, thanks mainly to Trump’s nutty policies. Entire industries are collapsing, factories are closing right and left, wages are falling, small businesses are struggling and going under, and prices are rising.

        A majority of the American public is no longer buying the fallacy that Trump is responsible for falling unemployment (which largely took place under the Obama administration). A majority also now support impeachment of this thoroughly corrupt and demented president.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          LOL…I am utterly fascinated by the fantasy world you live in. Where 80 year old women in walkers are responsible for being attacked and harassed by leftist thugs…. where Christian women are not “real women”…where you wish the economy crashes so you don’t have to give the president credit for anything. A world where you can call me a racist, misogynist, homophobe and a Nazi just because I don’t hate the president. These are crazy times indeed.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Doug Cook,

            The post above is yet another of your endless straw man arguments.

            I addressed your false “80 year old woman” claims at length above, and have never said I wish the economy would fail, or that all Christian women are not “real women”. That only applies to women – “Christian” or otherwise – who voted for a rabidly sexist ADMITTED serial sex criminal, and who support the sexist policies of Trump and his Republican cohorts in general.

            And far from just not “hating” Trump – you are his biggest fan and apologist. I’ve never actually called you the things you claim above, but if the shoe fits….

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Thank you Patrecia…you beat me to it. Mr Randolph, what is your definition of a troll? Someone with a differing opinion than you? Patrecia said last week that this should be a forum where important issues that concern us should be debated. Mr Randolph. Do you want to read one side of an issue only? Do my conservative views offend you?
            Patrecia, Steve, Bruce, Randy and myself have been discussing politics for years on the Record Searchlight comment section, until the site became worthless. I disagree with everything Patrecia believes…but we can have spirited debates and maybe even learn from each other.
            So once again, Mr Randolph… Explain to me what a troll is, And why Patrecia shouldn’t ‘feed me’. As a poly sci major. I spent my college years doing just this. Discussing politics with students and professors from every political spectrum. That’s how you learn. Not by turning your back on others with differing views.

        • Avatar Edmund Randolph says:

          Patrecia,
          For the love of all that is holy please stop feeding the trolls. Please.

          • Avatar Beverly Stafford says:

            Amen, Edmund, and I confess I was guilty of it, too. Trolls, have at it, but you’re on your own.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Edmund,

            Perhaps you could let us know what topics you believe are acceptable for discussion in this forum, and who should be allowed (or not) to comment on them.

            Then maybe you could explain why you feel you have the right to make those decisions.

          • Avatar Edmund Randolph says:

            Paterecia,
            Sorry i gave the impression that I was attempting to control the topic. Such was not my intention;however, what I was trying to get across was that by continuing to interact with doug’s D-tier shitposting(also referred to facebook-tier) as though it were sincere and original you are bringing down the level of discourse. From what i can discern form your postings you are sincere. I suppose another way of putting it is “Do not throw your pearls before swine”

  15. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    To all you conspiracy theorists, the big question right now in DC is who will replace Jay Gruden.

  16. Avatar Larry Winter says:

    “As I have stated strongly before, and just to reiterate, if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey (I’ve done before!).”

    Ghengis Trump

  17. Avatar Candace C says:

    Larry, yes, because THAT declaration of Trump’s is most definitely grounded in very stable genius reality, right? No dangerous self- aggrandizing fantasy world going on there! Move along non-Trump supporters, nothing to see here. After all, our economy is hummin’ along, right?! These silly ol’ “crazy times” we live in, LOL. Excuse me while I try to help put the fire out that may be irrevocably scarring the office of the presidency. Silly ol’ me for caring.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Interesting problem for the Trump haters. Now they have to somehow justify our US military presence in Syria, as to not give the president a win. Instead of starting WWIII like you all predicted, he is stopping these endless wars. Has the left ever cared about the Kurds and Turkey? Of course not. Trump is bringing the troops home, and the left can’t figure out how to criticize him for it.

      • Avatar Larry Winter says:

        What’s interesting for the Trump defenders is to explain the push back from some of his staunchest supporters. The Democrats have their chicken hawk neo-cons in their ranks that will mimic the republican neo-cons.
        Here’s Bernie’s response to Trumps announcement last Dec. and still holds true. You’ll see the difference in Bernie’s and Trump’s approach. Which do you agree with?

        “American troops have been in Afghanistan for nearly 18 years, the longest war in American history. Our troops have been in Syria since 2015 under what I believe are very questionable legal authorities. The American people do not want endless war. It is the job of Congress to responsibly end these military interventions and bring our troops home, not to come up with more reasons to continue them, as this amendment does. That is why I voted against it.

        “President Trump’s abrupt announcement last month that he would withdraw U.S. troops from Syria and Afghanistan was typical of his reckless approach—an approach that left our international partners blindsided and questioning U.S. leadership. Congress must play a role, consistent with its Constitutional authority over war, in developing a troop withdrawal plan that is coordinated with our allies, that continues to provide humanitarian aid and that supports political settlements in these countries.”

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        “Has the left ever cared about the Kurds and Turkey? Of course not.“

        I didn’t support our invasion of Iraq…but since we did, I’ve long argued that we should have carved out a Kurdish homeland from the north of Iraq. The Kurds of Turkey and Syrian could then immigrate there.

        The Kurds have been helping us since WWI. Now Trump is telling the Turks to let the slaughter commence.

      • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

        Trump-haters don’t have to worry about Trump’s botched diplomacy in Syria because his own Republican Party is giving him more grief than the Democrats. Pulling out of Syria was always the right move, but as usual, Trump did it at precisely the wrong time and wrong way. He’ll pay for it by losing the trial in the Senate after he’s impeached by the House. He’s messed with the real Deep State now.

  18. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    The Middle East is not a sporting event with an eventual winner. It has been a quagmire since Biblical times. Outside invaders have tried their own brand of conquering only to be driven out by other conquering invaders. The internal Tribal battles have gone on for centuries and no outside attempt has quelled them. Their human rights oppression has gone on for centuries while other countries have become more accepting. The one thing that is changing the attitudes of those Middle East residents is technology. Technology, especially social media, is showing the young people that the rest of the world has freedoms they don’t have. I would equate this o the time when Europe and Asia believed the world was flat. The internet is the Columbus or Eric the Viking showing them the world is not flat. Our mission should be to aid these young people with an invasion of technology and education not bombs.
    Wishful thinking? Nothing else has worked, go with what is working.

    • Avatar Candace C says:

      Bruce, I’m a big fan of wishful thinking. I wish your wishes were a reality. Unfortunately we’ve treated the Middle East as exactly that, a sporting event in which we decide to participate in or stand on the sidelines as spectators depending on which way the winds of money and power blow during any given game.

    • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

      That’s a biased Western view of Middle East history, where many great civilizations have flourished in the past. It hasn’t been a constant quagmire. For Christ’s sake, it’s the cradle of Western civilization.

  19. Avatar Candace C says:

    I must confess that while I personally tire of a few commenters here I’m not comfortable with calling them trolls. As I’ve said before it’s an open forum called “Open Convo” and all comments aren’t required reading. Then again, quite possibly I’m also considered to be a troll to some as well. Anyway, I say, “Don’t want to feed your perception of a troll? Then don’t. Want to change the direction of the conversation? Then do. You’re allowed to skip right over the commenters you don’t care for and concentrate on the ones you do, same as anyone else. In my humble opinion Barbara does an exemplary job at removing truly offensive personal attacks or what could be deemed as possibly slanderous comments.

    • Avatar Edmund Randolph says:

      Candace,
      ” Want to change the direction of the conversation? Then do.” That is what I am doing by pointing out some of the more obvious trolls. Pro-tip…..Run some of Doug’s comments through an online plagiarism checker. The results might just surprise you.

      • Barbara Rice Barbara Rice says:

        Hey Edmund – admin here. Calling someone a troll, or any derogatory name, is not OK here.

        We aim to keep things civil here. While some posters might drive you crazy, take the high road. Thanks.

        • Avatar Edmund Randolph says:

          Sorry barbara,
          Having spent a stretch working at Cattlemans back in the day it brings me a small measure of joy to not have to respond when Doug talks to a point where Its kinda fun to say stuff that i know will inflame him and then not respond. We didnt have that option back in the day. Sorry. I will stop. Even though it is true.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Just for the record…you never worked for me. We went through this on the Record Searchlight forum where you made the same claim using a different name. You accused me of making racist remarks at work, remember? When I pressed you, you could never answer simple questions about the restaurant. By the way, it is Cattlemens…not Cattlemans, as someone that worked there would know.

      • Avatar Candace C says:

        Edmund, nah, not interested. I’m more interested in civil (as one can be expect in these divisive tines), thoughtful and intelligent discourse. The other stuff is just noise that I choose to tune out.

    • Hal Johnson Hal Johnson says:

      For the record, I should point out I’ve learned that calling folks “poo-poo heads” doesn’t pass muster either.

  20. Avatar Candace C says:

    Barbara, I can think of some great Monty Python “Holy Grail” insults, lol. One particular insult is sort of in line with Hal’s “poo poo head”, it involves the direction of wind and a natural body function…

  21. Avatar Candace C says:

    Barbara, yes, like that. Lol

  22. Hey, ANC peeps, I’m curious if you’ll be impacted by the PG&E power outages. My grandkids are thrilled there’s no school tomorrow where they live in southern Shasta County, but still, in the grown-up world, this is a huge deal.

    • Barbara Rice Barbara Rice says:

      Power scheduled to be shut off at midnight all over Humboldt. We will still have water and gas. Probably going to eat all the ice cream.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Yes, I’m impacted. My wife is a teacher in Happy Valley…they are shut down for the next 2 days. Why does that affect me? Because I am on my days off from my job and now instead of relaxing today..she will be finding me chores to do.

      But seriously…California is turning into a 3rd world country. We now cannot guarantee electrical power in out towns when it gets windy. It’s like living in Yemen. LA now has diseases from Medieval times Typhoid Fever, Typhus and Tuberculosis from a rat population explosion. Because of an incompetent state government. Why are we putting up with this? Why are we putting up with disease ravaged cities? No electricity because it’s windy? There are many states that have much worse weather than us…have you heard of any other state that purposely shuts down power? I just read an article about the price of gas in California. The average price in the rest of the country is currently $2.25/gl…in California, it is $4.18/gl. Why? Why do we put up with this corrupt state government?

  23. Avatar Beverly Stafford says:

    We didn’t receive any sort of notification from PG&E in Eastern County nor does the outage map reach thus far east; so I guess we’ll still have lights and water. Lights we can work around, but not being able to flush toilets is a pain.

  24. Avatar Striker says:

    Got out the kite but little to no winds in Redding at this time. FAKE WEATHER NEWS !

  25. Avatar erin friedman says:

    Power off at midnight last night. Then the ATT cell service went out at 9 AM. So no power, no water no way to rage-tweet my disapproval. I will be sending smoke signals via the fumes coming from my ears.

  26. Avatar Beverly Stafford says:

    Had to shake my head at the crawl on television because it told viewers where the resource centers are. Not too helpful with the power out rendering televisions black. Reminds me of the sign advertising reading tutors: “If you can’t read this, call 555-5555.” I know, I know, they truly are trying to help in every possible way during what seems to be a strange call by PG&E, and I give them high marks for their efforts.

  27. Avatar common sense says:

    We should see more people coming forward to testify for the Dem’s.

    Rex Tillerson is one that should be interesting. Even though he enjoyed doing business deals with energy and Putin in the past he couldn’t stomach doing trumps bidding and left a while back.

    Tillerson doesn’t work for the admin anymore so Trump can’t stop him from spilling the beans.

    Fiona Hill is next up on the Docket to share some insights with the Panel.

    Fiona Hill was the Russia expert for Trump’s National Security Council, which means she has knowledge of the Trump regime’s dealings with Russia.

    With friends like Rudy….who needs enemies? Rudy never knew a Scandal he couldn’t make worse….just by opening his mouth!

    Then there’s Trey Gowdy, back into the drama (this time as a paid attorney) Better get a BIG Retainer Trey!( or you might not get paid)…..should be interesting which conspiracy theories he starts spinning? We might even get another Hillary story, yeah…. it was HER that was conspiring with Ukraine officials and Russia and she made it look like it was the President!….LOL…the Uranium Ore conspiracy part three!…..Or it was Obama or the…..

    History in the Making….that’s what we are witnessing right now…… Lots of T words in the Mix!

    T rump
    T reason
    T raitor
    T illerson

    • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

      T word that was missed, Troll.
      And the Dems better not puff their chests too much as it will be the Republicans that oust Trump. Now Liz Cheney, the former right hand of T is condemning him and another T supporter McSally is talking condemnation. The Democrats have been at it for 3 years and done nothing but when the country needs something done quickly it is the Republicans that save the day.
      Say hello to President Pence and eight more years of GOP leadership.

      • Avatar Miguel says:

        Problem, Bruce. Trump didn’t just BECOME incompetent and corrupt in the past two weeks. He rode down the escalator a fully formed sleaze merchant with virtually no discernible values. And yet .. many on the right (including good friend Liz) have been able to tolerate the stench emanating from the WH all this time .. without any word of protest or visible change in facial expression. I think that might be a problem for the GOP.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        No way. Pence has Trump-stink coming out of his pores. Remember when Al Gore lost to Bush II, largely owing to Clinton fatigue? Same problem for Pence, but on steroids.

  28. Avatar Gary Tull says:

    Remember when President Obama had shady lawyers and handed top cabinet titles to crooked incompetents, installed a crooked Attorney General, and associates were getting indicted all the time? 
    Me neither.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/10/us/politics/lev-parnas-igor-fruman-arrested-giuliani.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      You actually believe Eric Holder wasn’t crooked? Loretta Lynch? Just because the left ignored corruption by Obama’s AGs doesn’t mean they weren’t. looks like Hillary Clinton is making sounds of running again. LOL…I can hardly wait. Bernie is done because he just had a heart attack, Biden is done…well, because he is Biden. America is not going to back Warren. Hillary knows this, and she will jump in to ‘save the day’.
      “So maybe there does need to be a rematch, obviously, I can beat him again.”
      I bet you are excited about this new development

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        Sure, Doug. Obama, Holder, Lynch…all the black people in the last administration were crooked.

        :::eye roll:::

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          Really? You are going to bring race into this? Good grief. Holder was held in contempt of Congress…a bipartisan vote for for refusing to testify about the “Fast and Furious” scandal and withholding documents. Holder was responsible for signing off on the secret monitoring of Fox News’ James Rosen and other journalists, and now more and more information is coming out on the spying of the Trump campaign by the Obama administration.
          But as always, corruption is in the eye of the beholder. If you want to run from it, bring up race.

        • Avatar Tim says:

          Don’t forget Clinton’s pay to play foundation, Steven Chu’s sweetheart Solyndra giveaway to Obama megadonor George Kaiser, HHS secretary Kathleen Sebelius violating the Hatch Act, Janet Napolitano willfully violating immigration law, etc

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          When it’s all said and done, there will still be zero indictments of people who served in the 8-year Obama administration, despite the desperate, never-ending mud-slinging.

          How many Trump administration officials will have been indicted before he’s bounced after four years? The way things are going, it’s crazy to hazard a guess. I’ll make this bold prediction, though: Trump himself will be indicted shortly after leaving office. He a corrupt and reckless con man, and he’s already done enough to go down.

          You guys knock yourselves out, though—keep telling yourselves that the Obama administration’s sins were far worse than Trump’s. History is already laughing its ass off at that delusion.

          • Avatar Common Sense says:

            Steve you are correct. He will be indicted by the State of N.Y the day he is out of office. You can’t pardon your way out of state charges and Barr can’t play blocking back on those! They have a Grand Jury going as I type this at the state level in NYC.

            Mick Mulvaney/ Rudy Guiliani/ Barr and a host of others hoping for a Pardon might be pretty surprised when the day comes….just ask Flynn and Cohen.

            All that have strapped themselves to the Trumptanic are going down with the ship….it just won’t necessarily be while he is still in office….it will be after.

            If they GOP were smart….they will throw the skipper overboard and give themselves enough time to come up with some good candidates BEFORE we are too close to the 2020 election…..and people wonder why Romney came out swinging against the Trump Batter….it isn’t like he just grew a conscious or anything. SELF preservation…..at full play from here on out.

        • Avatar Tim says:

          The lack of Obama indictments just illustrates the double standard. I mean he is the only Nobel Peace Prize winner with a genocidal body count…

          Obama officials repeatedly & egregiously violated the law – weaponizing the IRS, campaigning on public time/travel, kicking back to supporters (be it Uranium contracts or Solar subsidies), usurping congressional legislative authority via illegal executive orders like DACA, lying & covering up Fast & Furious and Benghazi, etc.

          Trump, on the other hand, is a poo poo head who says & tweets outrageous things. But his actual actions have been reasonable. Partisan? Sure. But reasonable.

          It is telling that this so called “impeachment inquiry” was not even brought before the house for a vote, as required by law. Pelosi just announced she was conducting an inquiry and, oh by the way, excluded republicans from calling witnesses or otherwise participating. #resistance

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            There is absolutely no constitutional requirement that the House take two successful votes on impeachment—one to authorize an inquiry and one to ratify whatever emerges from that inquiry. Further, there are not even House rules requiring such a vote.

            During the Benghazi hearings, held by 10 separate GOP-led congressional committees, a couple of GOP committee chairs said that the investigations likely would lead to impeachment. Was a full House vote held prior to the investigation, per your imaginary law? No.

            You’re parroting a weaksauce GOP talking point that isn’t going anywhere because it’s total BS. That you call it unlawful doesn’t lend much credibility to your other claim that numerous Obama actions were unlawful.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Steve, It’s not a law, but there are House rules for impeachment.

            “The {impeachment} request is referred to the House Judiciary Committee which forwards it to the Subcommittee on the Constitution. The Subcommittee then investigates the complaints and, if there is merit to the charges, Articles of Impeachment describing the specific offense(s) are prepared. Those Articles are forwarded to the full Judiciary Committee for a vote. If approved, the Articles are sent to the full House for a vote.”

            Pelosi came up with this inquiry as a way to placate the left wing of her party. She is the smartest person in the Democrat party and knows the damage an impeachment will do to the party. They will drag this stupid inquiry out as long as possible to avoid doing the work for the American people. What has this Democrat House done? Nothing..

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            There has been no impeachment request, so no rule has been broken. The current investigations are to determine if any crimes have been committed and, if so, are they impeachable offenses. To send an impeachment request to the Judiciary Committee prior to determining a basis for charges would either be purely political, or the crime would have to be unambiguously evident (e.g., the proverbial pictures of the POTUS having sexual congress with a goat).

            I mean…duh!

  29. Avatar Candace C says:

    Republicans should get credit for impeaching Trump and saving the day because they get things done? Whut? The majority of them have sat back and twiddled their thumbs through every gawd-awful thing this president has done and said. Everything. Personally, I don’t care who gets credit for Trump no longer being in office as long as he’s gone. President Pence sounds truly awful as well unless you’re a big God in government fan, rabidly anti-LGBTQ and not a fan of women’s reproductive rights. Chest puffing for that sort of representation leaves me cold.

    • Avatar Beverly Stafford says:

      Agreed. That’s why the Veep choice is so important. I think that’s why McCain lost. Sarah for President? I’m half surprised that Trump didn’t choose her.

  30. Avatar Miguel says:

    We might well COME to regard the VP post as an important one .. but in recent times that certainly hasn’t been the case. But thanks for bringing up Sarah again. A reminder of the time (well in advance of Trump) when a portion of the GOP was ready to pivot to an absolute lack of substance and ability .. as long as that involved “owning the libs.” McCain, for all his political failings, was an old school patriot .. Palin, on the other hand, would probably have difficulty spelling it.

  31. Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

    Pence is a complete flake, just like every other fundamentalist religious fanatic Trump has placed in charge of the highest levels of our government. And I don’t believe that Sanders is done just because he had a minor heart attack, or that Biden is unelectable.

    Trump has gone off the deep end with his demented, juvenile attacks, and even a majority of the Fox “News” audience now believes Trump should be impeached. Warren is popular in the swing states that put Trump in office, so she may actually stand a decent chance of being elected. A Biden/Warren, a Sanders/Warren, or a Biden/Sanders ticket would be far preferable to a Trump/ANYONE ticket.

  32. Avatar Candace C says:

    I believe the word “victim” gets a bad rap (I’m not referring to the type of person who always cries “victim” and takes no responsibility for their own behavior when things don’t go their way). Unpopular with some “pull yourself up by your own bootstraps” folks there are victims of true systemic and systematic discrimination for obvious reasons who need and deserve representation. If I were one of these individuals or groups I would hope someone, Democrat or otherwise, would help my voice or collective voices be heard to push for change and equal rights. To me, while it has the real risk of drowning out some voices due to the sheer magnitude, the mere fact that there are so many trying to be heard doesn’t devalue their concerns but rather serves to illustrate the need for change. And yes, Steve, I like Bernie for the same reason you stated.

  33. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    And Carli Lloyd, of women’s soccer, announced she likely will pursue an NFL kicker career after retiring from soccer.

  34. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    Pursue a NFL career? Who’s going to hire an almost 40 year old rookie? Male or female. If a team does, it will be merely a publicity stunt.

  35. Avatar Gary Tull says:

    What ever, you two.

    • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

      Gary, I’m having a debate with Doug Cook, which he is losing, that doesn’t include Trump.

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        A debate about a sport nobody cares about. Who has even heard of this woman before she tried out for the NFL?

        • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

          Lloyd has two world championships and is a darling in Philadelphia. Megan Rapinoe is a darling everywhere but her home town. How’d that boycott of Jack’s go? All talk and no show. Women’s soccer rules.

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          I care about women’s soccer. Bruce cares about it. My kids and grandkids care about it. I’ve known who Carli Lloyd is for over a decade. Heck, I still miss Mia Hamm.

          I wouldn’t be so quick to run narrow tastes and willful ignorance up the flagpole and expect people to salute.

  36. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Adios Rudolph W. Giuliani. He is so far down the rabbit hole at this point he might just have to sell the Prez out to get some time shaved off his jail experience!

    Both Rudy and Barr are now neck deep in this mierda pit. But Rudy will get sold out by the two stooges that just got arrested, so Barr is skating free right now. Well until the Prez is gone that is and reality hits him with an Indictment.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/10/us/politics/rudy-giuliani-ukraine-associates.html

    Get your popcorn out…..this circus has just “really” started.

  37. Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

    I’ve been trying to imagine a lower form of life than Donald Trump. He’s a thoroughly corrupt white supremacist and serial sex criminal who openly incites violence against marginalized groups and his critics, and now thinks he can bully his way out of a legitimate impeachment inquiry that even many members of his own party believe should move forward (better late than never).

    In addition, he has deliberately cheated countless thousands of ordinary people in his business dealings, is once again trying to slash vast amounts of money from the Housing budget (which could easily result in forcing millions of elderly and disabled people and low-income children into homelessness), and is attempting to create a law that would allow religious fanatics to deprive gay people of housing, employment, and other basic rights. Who could possibly defend this sociopathic thug?

  38. Avatar Striker says:

    How many of those young good people of color in the inter city’s of California have been saved from being shoot by other good people of color because of the our new ammo law?

    No even one! And the beat goes on. Sometimes the problem will take care of itself.

    • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

      Striker,

      California has one of the lowest per capita gun death rates in the nation, which many experts credit to California’s stricter gun laws:

      https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm

      • Avatar Tim says:

        California ranks 48 in personal freedom, yet is no safer from gun violence than Nebraska or Iowa (26th & 27th in freedom) and only marginally safer than New Hampshire (#1 in freedom).

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          Tim — You’re normally a pretty intellectually astute and honest guy. That’s why cherry-picking Nebraska and Iowa off of that map is pretty darned disappointing.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            I don’t know, personally I think including suicides in tallies of “gun violence” is dishonest – especially when overdoses aren’t called “drug violence.”

            If you look at actual firearm homicide rates you see zero correlation with restrictive gun laws. All gun control does is restrict citizens’ access to guns.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state

            Trivia: Doing more than $500 worth of handyman work in a disaster area is a felony that will bar you from owning firearms for life.

            Lying on a college or mortgage application and mailing it is a felony that will bar you from owning firearms for life.

            Butchering & eating a horse is a felony that will bar you from owning firearms for life.

            Emailing your former company’s customers and alerting them to a security flaw is a felony that will bar you from owning firearms for life.

          • Avatar Larry Winter says:

            Tim, you can add being a cannabis user also restricts you from buying firearms.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Tim,

            Your link is misleading. California is – by far – the most populace state. It actually has one of the lowest PER CAPITA gun death rates in the nation.

            It’s also a fact that the more guns in a particular state or region, the more gun deaths.

            In addition, suicides should be counted among gun death because a suicidal person with access to a gun is much more likely to die than a person attempting suicide using other methods. In fact, Shasta County has twice the suicide rate as the rest of the state because of its high number of guns.

            https://qz.com/437015/mapped-the-us-states-with-the-most-gun-owners-and-most-gun-deaths/

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Tim sez: “If you look at actual firearm homicide rates you see zero correlation with restrictive gun laws.“

            That’s true if you’re comparing states, or if you’re parroting the favorite argument of gun humpers: “Chicago! Look at Chicago!”

            The USA is neck-deep in guns. If you want a gun, it’s easy to get one, legally or illegally. Local gun laws aren’t worth Jack Scheisse.

            If you’re looking for correlations that mean something, look at gun violence rates in the USA compared with other developed nations. Then tell me there’s no correlation.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            Steve: Which of those developed nations has similar levels of diversity to America? Seems to me that the cultures with the least violence are the most homogeneous – regardless of gun access.

            Patrecia: Why count suicides? If a teenage girl has the right to decide whether the developing life in her womb lives or dies, shouldn’t a 65+ year old man (statistically the most likely demographic to commit suicide by firearm) be able to decide whether to continue living his own life?

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Oh come on Tim! Instead of using the word “diversity”, why not just say what you really mean? I’ve heard the NRA’s racist propaganda.

            The much lower rates of gun violence in other developed countries is far more likely the result of the fact that the citizens of those countries don’t live in extreme poverty, or suffer the kind of stress, deprivation, and lack of opportunity that millions of Americans experience. The governments of those countries use their citizen’s tax dollars to benefit the actual citizens, as opposed to spending trillions of dollars to promote the interests of corporate powers and the very wealthy.

            And your comparison between a feeling, aware 65-year-old man and a near-microscopic organism with virutally no ability to experince pain or awareness of anything going on in its environment (that’s 99 percent of abortions, according to every legitimate medical reseacher and medical organization world-wide) is ludricrous. The point was that when suicidal people have access to guns, they are far more likely to succeed in the attempt than when using other methods.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            By diversity I mean diversity: racial, cultural, economic, etc. Idaho and Montana have murder rates that rival European nations despite both states having above average poverty rates and among the highest firearm ownership rates in the nation.

            But you are absolutely right that gun control is racist & classist. It has always been designed to discriminate against the under privileged classes & races, especially when they began to assert themselves in ways that threaten the status quo of the ruling elite.

            And yes, the NRA has a long problematic history with black gun rights. They’ll point to token Colon Noir as signs things have changed, but look at how they swooped in to defend Harold Fish yet let John McNeil waste away in prison. Listen to their silence on Corey Jones and now Atatiana Jefferson. Those who wish to support actual gun rights should look to the 2nd Amendment Foundation.

            That reminds me of an old joke:

            Q: How does the ACLU count to ten?

            A: 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Actually Montana is among the five states with the HIGHEST rates of gun deaths in the nation – far ahead of other developed countries – and tops the list for deaths by gun suicide (just as Shasta County has twice the suicide rate of the state average, due to the easy availablility of guns).

            And I never said that gun control is “racist and classist”. With 40,000 guns deaths in this country each year (nearly identical to deaths by vehicle accident, and not far behind drug overdoses), guns are a major health and safety threat.

            Riding in cars is often unavoidable, and their uses are largely positive. The same can’t be said for guns.

            https://www.huffpost.com/entry/states-gun-death-rates_n_5523570

          • Steven Towers Steven Towers says:

            Tim — I take it you’ve never been to Europe….or at leas that it’s been decades.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Tim — I’m old enough to recall when the Black Panthers—carrying various firearms—occupies the rotunda of the Capitol building in Sactown to protest in favor of their 2nd amendment rights.

            Their argument for carrying guns was that Black people were being systematically subjected to violence by the Oakland PD, which was true, and that guns enabled them to defend themselves against state oppression. The Oakland PD were vigorously confiscating guns owned by minorities.

            In my lifetime, I don’t think there’s been a purer example of a 2nd amendment-related action exercised as the founders intended—as a hedge against authoritarian tyranny.

            You won’t read about that incident in the NRA’s propaganda, of course. I’m sure that has nothing to do with race.

            Anyway, following the Panthers’ occupation, the Republican-majority legislature quickly passed a law banning guns in state buildings, and Saint Ronald the Perfect signed it—thus making everyone in those buildings less safe, according to the standard NRA argument. Nor can you carry a gun into the federal buildings in Washington D.C.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            Steve: Yep, the Panther’s May 1967 demonstration in Sacramento led to a large wave of new California gun laws passed by Republicans including Saint Ronnie. It, along with the assassinations of Kennedy & MLK, also spurred passage of the federal gun control act of 1968 (banning sale of guns to felons & drug users regardless of their propensity for violence).

            Trivia: MLK applied for, and was denied, a concealed weapons permit.

            Patrecia: Again, I’m talking about murder rate. I am disinterested in suicide rates – especially since the infirm choosing not to be a burden on others that is a large part of the self-sufficiency/independence culture that makes Idaho & Montana so safe.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Tim,

            Are you saying that you think the high rate of gun suicides in Montana is something to admire? Or that the “infirm” (which there is no evidence make up any notable percentage of those suicides) have a duty to take their lives? And how do elderly infirm people committing suicide make Montana “safer”? Are they a threat?

          • Avatar Tim says:

            Patrecia,

            Straw men aside, societies with long harsh winters have historically been more resilient and self-reliant. And self-reliant isn’t even the right word — they still very much worked together. But once no longer capable of pulling their share, the elderly jumped off cliffs or floated out to sea on ice rather than take what they did not earn from neighbors.

            A culture where people have so much respect for community that they’d rather kill themselves than take from neighbors is going to be a safer, more lawful society than one where people feel entitled to XY&Z. That’s not *because* of suicide, but rather suicide is a byproduct of commonly understood & accepted societal pressures.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Tim,

            The compassion-less society you describe in which the elderly and disabled are pressured to commit suicide because they can no longer work sounds like the plot of a horror movie (and it certainly isn’t “safe” for them). Civilized societies don’t behave that way. They respect their members and care for their elderly – they don’t throw them away like garbage.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            Those societies are not compassionless. In fact, it takes compassion for others to realize that you’re going to be a undo burden on others. And again, elder suicide is but one facet. Döstädning (swedish death cleaning) is another example of elders’ compassion for others – the elderly gradually declutter their homes so as to not leave a giant mess for their loved ones.

            Point being that societies that care that much about each other are much less likely to rob, rape, and murder each other…

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            I know I shouldn’t bother arguing with someone who is so lacking in conscience, but a “caring” society would encourage their elders to stay with them even if they are no longer physically able to work. I’m sure their grandchildren would appreciate being the beneficiaries of their experience, wisdom, and love. What a horrible world your mind must occupy.

      • Avatar Striker says:

        Obama’s 2017 cdc bs. Lie even made chicago look safe in your map.

        How about the Mexican drug runner with the 6lbs. Of heroin in Shasta lake today.

        Hope none of your friends or love ones gets hooked and dies from a overdose.

        This is the #1 reason why people are shooting each other you know.

        Build that wall ! Trump for the new America KING for Life. 2020

    • Avatar Candace says:

      Strikeout, “sometimes the problem will take care of itself”. Can’t say what I want to say in response to that comment or it’ll be removed. I’ll just say that at the very least you’re consistent with who you hate. Oh, and it’s “inner” city. I guess there’s not a lot of extra room for a dictionary underneath a rock.

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        That remark seemed so blatantly racist that at first I thought he couldn’t possibly have meant it to sound the way it did. It looks like I was wrong. How frightening that people like that walk among us.

        Despite all the Trump-inspired hysteria toward Hispanics and people of Middle-Eastern decent, white right-wing males are responsible for far more deaths than foreign terrorists. Also, hate crimes have increased by a whopping 17 percent since Trump took office, which the F.B.I. believes are grossly under-reported.

        https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/FBI-Hate-crimes-in-U-S-CA-surge-in-first-year-13389522.php

        • Avatar Tim says:

          Deaths on US soil from radical islamic terrorists since 2001:
          3,120 in 24 incidents (2,996 from 9/11 and 49 from Pulse)

          Deaths on US soil from radical right wing conservatives since 2001:
          107 in 62 incidents

          And while reported hate crime is up, at least 372 have been hoaxes:
          http://www.fakehatecrimes.org/

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Of course your figure is made up almost entirely of the SINGLE incident that took place more than 18 years ago, and is now being studied in HISTORY books by high school students who weren’t even alive at the time.

            In addition, there is serious doubt that the Pulse Nightclub shooting was an act of Islamic terrorism. It was committed by a closet gay man who spent a lot of time hanging around that club trying to pick up other men, and may very well have chosen “Latin Night” (during which most patrons were Hispanic) because he was afraid he had been exposed to HIV by a Puerto Rican lover, according to other ex-lovers. That this person who was born in the U.S. and had no ties to any Islamic terrorist group decided to make his revenge shooting appear to be something other than what it was by exploiting his family’s heritage doesn’t necessarily make it so.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            Even if you exclude 9/11, Islamic terrorists have still killed more Americans than right wing terrorists.

            PS It is hard to argue the Pulse loser wasn’t influeced by radical Islam because he pledged allegiance to ISIS while on the phone with 911. Sure, he was ignorant of Islamic State nuances and was probably a closeted homosexual, but it was obviously a radical islamic terrorist attack. Or do you use your same standard to say Matthew Williams wasn’t a right wing conservative killer because he was ignorant of Christ’s teachings and was likely closeted?

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Tim,

            Wrong. Americans are twice as likely to be victims of violent terrorist attacks committed by white right-wing American-born men than by Islamic terrorists, and those number have surged since Trump took office.

            In fact, the number of right-wing terrorists acts is actually much greater, since those figures don’t include the massive amount of violence (including murders, bombings, arsons, chemical attacks, assaults, kidnappings, attempted murders, etc.) committed by right-wing extremists against women’s clinics, their staff, an their patients.

            And as I pointed out above, that the Pulse Nightclub shooter tried to make his attack appear to be something he considered more noble than what the evidence strongly suggests it was doesn’t make it so.

            https://www.huffpost.com/entry/domestic-terrorism-white-supremacists-islamist-extremists_n_594c46e4e4b0da2c731a84df

  39. Avatar Candace says:

    There are those of us who call Redding our hometown and are quite proud and supportive of Megan Rapinoe. Please don’t lump us all together as one narrow minded entity. Not helpful.

  40. Avatar Candace says:

    Sorry Barbara, I know I should have practiced restraint. I know better than to respond for obvious reasons. It’s late. I’m so sick of that hateful crap. I need to put my phone down. Good night.

    • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

      Candace, that is why I post on Facebook. Not so many posting countless posts, especially anonymous ones.

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        My friendly ongoing debate with Bruce about women’s soccer has nothing to do with Rapinoe.. It is a silly debate on the popularity of the sport…that is all. Bruce thinks it is a popular sport…I think it is boring and nobody in the US cares about women’s soccer except for every 4 years during the Worlds Cup. That’s it…nothing controversial here. Next we can debate about the controversy of the designated hitter rule in the American league

  41. Avatar Larry Winter says:

    From the Trump rally in Minnesota
    “I have all these people that what to stay, and I don’t want to stay…It’s time to bring them home.”

    ===================================================================

    “Remember when Donald Trump tweeted that he was “trying to end the endless wars?” That was yesterday.

    Today he’s sending thousands of troops, warplanes, and missiles to his dictator friends in Saudi Arabia to escalate military tensions with Iran.”

    Bernie Sanders

    • Avatar Striker says:

      Do you believe that the 15+mil. Kurds Who live in Turkey , 6+mil. Living in Iran, 6+ mil. Living in Iraq will stand by and watch their brothers be killed by the Turkey army.

      The Kurds are mostly Sunni Muslim 95+% . Isis is also all Sunni Muslims.
      35+ mil. Kurds in the world.

      Sunni Arab Emirates will start ww3 by using the Kurds and Isis to over throw Iran, Turkey, Iraq governments. Turkey would be split up along with Syria to form a new Kurdish Country.

  42. Avatar Gary Tull says:

    It seems there is obvious behavior pointing to an alliance between Trump, Putin and Prince Mohammed Bin Salman of Saudi Arabia.  

    Trump never criticizes Putin (about anything) and regularly sides with him over the denial of Russian interference imposed on the 2016 U.S. election. Coincidentally, they both call it a hoax. That posture still stands well after evidence has proven quite the opposite.

    Trump never condemned the torture and killing of Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi. And… there was that summit in which Prince Mohammed Bin Salman and Putin practically “high fived” each other. Perhaps an expanded investigation should be about what may be planned by these three autocrats. 

    Pay attention. Follow the money, and where Trump is interested in putting up his Hotels.

    • Avatar Linda Cooper says:

      Gary Tull: I was just going to post, “follow the money.” You beat me to it.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Gary, during the Reagan, Clinton and Bush administration while in the Air Force I spent a lot of time in Saudi Arabia helping the Saudi Air Force with air refueling support. This was all paid for by the Saudi government. We would spend 30-45 days in the country in a beautiful hotel provided by Saudi. We mainly refueled their F-15’s patrolling the border. This is nothing unusual to provide support for an allie. I’m not in favor of this move, but understand the reasoning behind it. Iran attacked an allie of ours,

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Gary…just to be clear, Trump called the Russian collusion conspiracy a hoax… not Russian interference in the election, which he does acknowledge. I agree who should be more forceful about what Russia does. But remember, President Obama had the same information and he chose to keep it a secret. To me that is just as bad.

      • Avatar Gary Tull says:

        Doug, So Trump denies collusion with Russia and calls it a hoax. Yet he acknowledges they interfered in the election process — in his favor.
        Do you believe there was never any coordination between Russia and him during all of this?

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          No…there was no coordination between Trump and Russia. That was confirmed by the Mueller report. Why did Russia interfere in Trump’s favor? Because literally nobody gave Trump s chance on winning, even Russia. The goal of Russia was to hurt the Clinton presidency. Putin hated Clinton.
          Interference and collusion are two different entities. Interference was proven, collusion was not. What is your proof.. different than the Mueller report that supports your claim?

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            The Mueller Report did NOT rule out collusion between Trump and Russia (which Mueller plainly stated), and it made a good case for obstruction on Trump’s part in relation to several things.

            Mueller didn’t go far enough in his conclusions and recommendations, based on his belief that a sitting president can’t be prosecuted. He left Democrats to finish his job for him.

          • Avatar Common Sense says:

            For anyone that actually wants to “Read” the Report. There are plenty of things that can be used in the Impeachment Process.

            https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf

            This is the REDACTED version. I can only image what the full text has in it. That may come out here in the near future.

      • Avatar Larry Winter says:

        Doug, can you give us a quote of Trump acknowledging Russian interference in the election?

        I’ll give you a quote that denies it based on his conversation with Putin.
        “He just said it’s not Russia,” Trump told reporters at the time. “I will say this: I don’t see any reason why it would be.”

        And this latest Ukrainian issue includes the attempt to pin the Clinton email theft on Ukrainians, not Russians.

    • Avatar Common Sense says:

      Gary, the Day Trump Announced the Pull Out, just so happened to be Putin’s Birthday!

      Just a Coincidence No Doubt!

  43. Avatar Candace says:

    Patrecia, that comment was meant to sound exactly as it did. It’s right in line with previous comments this person has made in this forum regarding people of color. Thing is, while I know it’s futile to debate that level of (fill in blank) simply letting those types of overtly racist comments stand doesn’t sit well with me either because it’s not ok. It’s never ok.

  44. Avatar Common Sense says:

    It’s about now that we should all be thanking Rudy. He did more in the 1-2 years as the Presidents Attorney than the Dem’s did in 3 years to bring the crimes this administration has committed to the surface!

    A once fairly stable guy that accomplished a lot in N.Y. Now soon to be a Disgraced Criminal doing time. I am guessing his wife saw the writing on the wall a while back and knew it wouldn’t end well ( The Republicans can learn a lesson from her). It’s that time…..cut and run or sink with the ship….

    Thank you Mr. Mayor…..you took one for the team…..Here’s to spilling the beans and getting a reduced sentence to help “really” purge the swamp.

    The great enema is coming…… History in the Making……

  45. Avatar Tim says:

    What due process? An 84 year-old crossing guard & former police officer was dismissed and had his firearms seized after a waitress overheard him complaining about how the School Resource Officer regularly leaving school to get coffee made the school an easier target for a potential school shooter.

    Makes you feel all warm and fuzzy about Newsom’s new red flag laws…

    https://www.mvtimes.com/2019/10/11/crossing-guard-relieved-duty-guns-seized/

    • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

      In case it’s escaped your attention, there have been a phenomenal number of school shootings in recent years in which children are being murdered and maimed, often by right-wingers obsessed with their guns (or their spawn). The waitress did the right thing.

      In fact, she may be the only REAL victim in that situation. Her boss threw her under the bus in order to avoid losing any customers by claiming that “nobody” believes what she said (although she and guy’s buddy are the only witnesses). She has probably lost here job by now, and may even be hounded out of town by local gun fanatics.

      Finally, the old man is milking this situation for every bit of sympathy and outrage he can get. No one told him he had to sell his guns – they were removed from his possession temporarily while an investigation is being conducted. No doubt he’s enjoying all the attention, and being a “hero” to every gun-humper in the country. I’m sure the money will be pouring in.

  46. Avatar Candace says:

    Tim, I’m not a gun fan and am a proponent of tougher gun laws but I have to say that at first glance that particular one you’re referring to gave me pause. I’m on board with “see something, say something” but there needs to be recourse for individuals wrongly accused of something. I could be wrong either way because admittedly I’ve not done my homework on this.

  47. Avatar Candace says:

    Tim, “that particular one” meaning that particular red flag law.

  48. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    Steve Rushmore, Phineas Gage, Buzz Fledderjohn, Esteban Torres, and probably a couple that I’m forgetting. Each had a distinct worldview.

    I had an epiphany probably a decade ago and gave them all up.

  49. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    Trump’s abandonment of the Kurds in Syria can only be matched by JFK’s abandonment of the Cuban exiles in the Bay of Pigs invasion. That failure led JFK, a staunch opponent of communism, to search for another cause which turned out to be Vietnam and led to the Vietnam War.
    Yes, I am now, along with a lot of former Trump defenders, on the side that he needs to go. You do not sell out allies.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      I wonder what our German, Italian and Japanese allies make of Trump’s new policy: You only deserve our loyalty if you helped storm the beaches at Normandy.

      • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

        My daughter was part of the troops President Clinton sent to Bosnia to prevent ethnic cleansing of Muslims. Some of those Muslims she protected are probably shooing at American troops in the Middle East. America cannot become like many other countries that hold grudges forever.

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        Steve…it is not the job of the military to be human shields. Reagan learned that lesson in Beirut.
        A lot of people get this timeline backwards. Turkey announced that they will be attacking the Kurds, it was after that President Trump made the decision to pull our troops out. The media makes it out as Turkey decided to attack after Trump decided to pull troops. That is not true. It was Turkey that made the first move.

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          I agree that it’s not the job of the military to be human shields. It’s also not the military’s to be in charge of nation-building. But they did a pretty damned good job of it after WWII.

          We should never attack a foreign government unless provoked. We should never try to overthrow a foreign government unless 100% committed to the nation-building effort that follows. No war that we’ve fought during my lifetime has met those tests.

          This is one of the issues where I hold both parties nearly equally responsible.

        • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

          Doug Cook,

          I know the story now (well after Trump announced his decision) is that Turkey was going to attack anyway, so Trump pulled the troops protecting the Kurds so our troops wouldn’t be in danger. As little sense as that makes, is there any actual evidence that Trump’s latest claim is true?

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            It wasn’t Trump’s claim, it was the Secretary of Defense. This is such quandary for you, isn’t it Patrecia? If President Obama made this decision,you would have praised him for not getting involved in another Middle East war. Praised his brilliant foreign policy. But since you can never give President Trump credit for anything…you turn into a newfound Hawk. Are you sleeping ok at night?

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Doug — Do you seriously think that Sect. Of Defense Esper—the fourth guy to hold that seat since Commander Shinsplints took office—is going to contradict him? Ain’t nobody left in Trump’s cabinet except lickspittle sycophants.

            This is not “getting involved in another war.” This is an ongoing mess, much of it of our making, and just about the *least* honorable thing Trump could do at this point is abandon a people who have helped us all along, leaving them to potential genocide.

            But this is where we are now. What Putin wants, Putin gets.

      • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

        One of the reasons I liked Trump was his anti-interventionist tendencies, which definitely go against the grain of the congressional-military-industrial-intelligence project. His handling of the Syrian withdrawal was impulsive reckless, but it appears the Russians have brokered a deal between the Kurds and Syria that will prevent a Kurdish genocide. I really can’t stand Trump’s erratic decision making, but the reality is, there was never going to be an easy way to leave Syria, or any of our other conflicts, thanks to the real Deep State, which Eisenhower warned us about so many years ago.

  50. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Bernie Sanders wants to tax Billionaires at a 97.5% Tax Rate! Wow….that should go over well at those Polo Clubs across the country and in the select churches. CrAzY Bern…..plain crazy.

    Speaking of Churches, with the “video” that was played at the Trump resort, I am wondering if there will be any feedback from the Evangelicals on the video showing Trump Killing the Fake News People in this video? Or perhaps that is OK also along with the 13,000 lies and the P grabbing and the cheating on all his wives,hushing porn stars etc? Heck…just another day in the land of GOP. They have lost their “Moral” Compass! Their Moral Capital has all been spent if they turn their head on a video like this!

    What many have missed is the announcement of abandoning the Kurds (removing our troops from Syria) came on Putins Birthday…..mmmm. Nothing to see here also? What a B Day Gift!

    I am waiting for the Sarah Sanders response to the video- “You know this president is going to do what is necessary to make this country great again. The snowflakes need to get over it……if it takes murder or withdrawing troops and that will lead to murder….hey it’s a price you pay to make this president happy!”……now I am late for church I got to run…..

  51. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    I spent some time last night perusing the 2019 homeless counts for NorCal counties. The provided results are raw counts, which are not of much worth for comparative uses, so I converted them to per-100,000 rates of homelessness.

    Make of these what you will.

    Humboldt County: 1075/100,000

    San Francisco County: 790/100,000

    Shasta County: 750/100,000

    Siskiyou County: 595/100,000

    Sonoma County: 584/100,000

    Alameda County: 481/100,000

    Tehama County: 439/100,000

    Butte County: 387/100,000

    Sacramento County: 370/100,000

    Yolo County: 295/100,000

    Contra Costa County: 200/100,000

    Placer County: 160/100,000

    Marin County: 99/100,000

    Marin County is the only one of the above that had a decline since the 2017 counts. Also the only county to credit an aggressive “housing first” program.

    • Avatar Tim says:

      Interesting, but it looks like you might be comparing “homeless” data from one county against “unsheltered” data from another. Those living in FEMA housing, motels, couch surfing, etc are counted as homeless while those living outdoors or in cars & tents are considered unsheltered.

      Also note that Humboldt County was particularly aggressive this year and merely counted people who *looked* homeless, rather than bothering with the whole interview process. Such a technique resulted in more than double the previous count, but it appears they have not officially released the full report so I suspect HUD objected to their methodology.

      Butte County Homeless: 1,002/100k (2,304/230k)
      Butte County Unsheltered: 387/100k (891/230k)

      Humboldt Homeless: Not yet released
      Humboldt Unsheltered: 1075/100k (1473/137k)

      Sacramento Homeless: 362/100k (5570/1,540k)
      Sacramento Unsheltered: 253/100k (3900/1,540k)

      San Francisco Homeless: 900/100k (8,011/890k)
      San Francisco Unsheltered: 582/100k (5,180/890k)

      Shasta County Homeless: 749/100k (1,349/180k)
      Shasta County Unsheltered: 448/100k (806/180k)

      But perhaps unsheltered density is a better way to quantify homelessness:
      Shasta Unsheltered per square mile: 0.12 (448/3,775)
      Butte Unsheltered per square mile: 0.24 (387/1636)
      Humboldt Unsheltered per square mile: 0.41 (1473/3568)
      Sacramento Unsheltered per square mile: 4.04 (3900/965)
      San Francisco Unsheltered per square mile: 12.4 (582/47)

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        I tried to leave out those who had semi-permanent shelter in counties that have had fires and are in FEMA housing. That was easy in Butte County. Not as easy to sort out for Shasta County.

        I don’t understand the relevance of your unsheltered density metric. Unsheltered densities are lower in Shasta County because population density is lower in Shasta County. So what? The only relevance I can imagine is if the homeless were evenly distributed in each county, they wouldn’t be such an aesthetic eyesore in low-density counties. But of course, they’re not evenly distributed.

  52. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Welcome Aboard Fox News…..Finally….some common sense!

    https://twitter.com/gretaisright/status/1183594306604548099

  53. Avatar Candace says:

    Common Sense, from what I can tell that’s a few months old tweet and was pre-Barr’s recent visit with Murdoch. It’s yet to be seen how long Cavuto remains employed by Fox after that visit (coupled with Shep Smith’s subsequent resignation ) and if they’ll now double down to mostly remain in lock-step with Trump and his administration. Cavuto more than likely sleeps a bit better at night but for me it’s too little, too late as far as Fox News goes.

  54. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    If Trump is indeed impeached that would leave us with President Pence. But if the Democrats found dirt on Pence and he went down with Trump then we would have President Pelosi. The Squad would not be happy with that. The latest poll shows the Democratic front runner is not even running, Michelle Obama.
    Grab some popcorn and watch the show.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      It was always my belief that if Trump got funding for the wall, he would have not run for a 2nd term as he would have accomplished his major goals. Even if impeached by the House, the Senate will acquite him. Trump is not leaving office. It appears that Warren is the likely candidate, which does not bode well for the Democrats. She will not win a general election. If the Democrats want to win, start looking at lower tier candidates like Andrew Yang and Tulsi Gabbert. As a moderate Republican, I would vote for those two over Trump.

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        Trump is ALL about power, self-aggrandizement, and ego (as all sociopaths are). He will never let go of the Presidency willingly. In fact he is already inciting his followers to violence and civil war in the event that he loses the election or is impeached. Trump cares nothing about the well-being of the country.

    • Avatar Common Sense says:

      “IF” they found dirt on Pence….LOL. He is waste deep in the hoopla.

      And now the Letter from the Orange guy to the Turkey Leader…..CrAzY is as crazy does!

      https://twitter.com/trish_regan/status/1184559361638748161

      The Stable Genius wrote this one…. The Implosion Continues…..popcorn fully stocked….sodas cold…easy chair reclined back….

  55. Avatar Candace says:

    Patrecia, there’s really no arguing the definition of compassion (or the perceived lack thereof) with a pragmatic, self-described atheist who seems to also follow a Protestant, Calvinist, Puritan work ethic philosophy(?). From what I can glean, in that world wanting to experience joy to be part of your daily work life is to be selfish and hedonistic. The only “joy” you should feel is that your job, no matter how joyless you may find it , is in the helping of humankind. That definition of selfishness (selflessness) apparently in this case extends to the in-firmed elderly taking their own lives as to not be a burden to their other (labor) productive fellow humans. While I admire those who do the hard, unglamorous work in our society, I, like you, find that philosophy to be very bleak indeed. I’ve found that that mind/set is so deeply ingrained in those that believe that way, it’s virtually impossible to try and change their minds. I’m not saying it’s my job to change their minds or that my worldview is superior to theirs, they can believe whatever they want. I’m just saying I think it’s likely fruitless to even try.

    • Avatar Tim says:

      Candace says: “The only “joy” you should feel is that your job, no matter how joyless you may find it , is in the helping of humankind”

      That sounds like some socialist bullpucky; I’d say the opposite. Helping others – at your expense – is immoral unless you take enough joy in it to make it worth your while. It is a fundamental violation of the Golden Rule (I would not have others sacrifice themselves for me therefore I should not sacrifice myself for them). You should instead strive to help those who will help you in return or otherwise compensate you for your toils.

      You should rightly ask: isn’t that Randian axiom against self-immolation at odds with elder suicide? No. The elder is not killing himself for the benefit of society, he is killing himself for his own benefit: to no longer live in pain, or with diminished capacities, or to avoid the shame & dishonor of being a burden on others. He is making a rational, self-interested choice.

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        You must be Ayn Rand’s biggest fan. Fortunately humanity is slowing evolving beyond the primitive belief that “happiness” is all about accumulating personal wealth, power, etc., with no thought for the well-being of others. The more enlightened among us realize that the greatest happiness and self-fulfillment comes from alleviating suffering, and improving the lot of humanity as a whole. Your contention that human beings who find themselves in a position of needing help and can’t do enough for you in return should just die is frankly appalling.

        And given your belief that elderly people who can no longer hold down a job should be pressured or “shamed” into kiling themselves, I’m curious where you stand on the subject of children who are disabled in some way that could prevent them from ever being entirely self-sufficient. Should society kill them as well?

        Point of interest: following the 1917 Bolshevik revolution in Russia, the Bolshevik’s offered free higher education to everyone (including women, for the first time ever). Ayn Rand was one of the first women in line to take advantage of that Socialist opportunity.

        • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

          *slowly* evolving….

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          ” I’m curious where you stand on the subject of children who are disabled in some way…Should society kill them as well?”

          But yet, you are in favor of late term abortions for those babies with deformities or disabled.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Of course I never said any such thing. The one percent that are late-term abortions (which often involve WANTED babies) are performed almost exclusively because the baby is already dead in the womb and poisoning the mother’s system, or is horribly deformed, suffering, and dying.

        • Avatar Tim says:

          Patrecia,

          You misunderstand. If caring for others brings you emotional rewards that are worth your labor, by all means continue. Or have at it if you believe that by doing good for one person, they might do good for someone else, and they for someone else and so on until after a long Karmic chain you’ll ultimately be rewarded.

          Objectivism is truly about consent — no one should be *forced* to selflessly care for others (and no one should demand that others selflessly care for them).

  56. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    In women’s soccer Carli Lloyd would make a perfect fit in the NFL. She is now complaining about a diminished role in the World Cup and blames it on the coach. Yep, perfect fit for the NFL.

  57. Avatar Candace says:

    Bruce, “and yet he persisted”. Gotta hand it to you, your dogged persistence regarding the pursuance of the subject of women’s soccer in this forum has my personal admiration. Keep on truckin’!

    • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

      Candace, my eight year old granddaughter just started organized soccer. I take great pride in telling the other adults that her mother played in the same high school league, a few years apart, as Megan Rapinoe. Women’s soccer is popular here in Phoenix as two other members of the World Cup team live here.

  58. Avatar Candace says:

    Tim, my apology regarding my assigning the “joy” thing to you ( not my view either). Now that I read your reply I remember that you’re an Ayn Rand fan, which I am not. Regardless, sorry, my mistake.

  59. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    Just curious…did anyone bother to watch the debate last night?

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      I haven’t watched any of the debates. A debate format where contestants get less than 5 cumulative minutes to speak isn’t worth spit, in my opinion.

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        Yes, debates are worthless. This may be the last campaign where debates occur. I just watched enough of it to see what outfit Tulsi Gabbert was going to wear. The white outfit…yes! But seriously, after watching the highlights, or low lights, I would be very nervous if I was a Democrat voter. This can’t be the best they have. I think that the US needs to look at the process of choosing a president. The system isn’t working the way it is. We are not getting the best and brightest to run.
        The Democrats should start looking at the bottom tier candidates. I would vote Democrat for the following candidates in this order, Andrew Yang, Amy Klobuchar and Tulsi Gabbert. These candidates will attract moderate Republicans and independents. Warren won’t. Don’t worry about Biden…he is done. His incoherent answers to questions and his idiot son will make voters drop him. Democrats should pray for impeachment, right now that’s the only way to get rid of President Trump.

  60. Avatar Candace says:

    Doug, I think that’s great. My brother and my nephew are huge organized soccer fans. My nephew played, ref’d and was involved in helping with summer soccer camps in Santa Cruz while he still lived at home. My brother ref’d games as well until a physical problem made it so he could no longer do it. I have great-nieces that play on teams here in Redding. Great sport.

  61. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Talk about timing and communication. U.S Military leaves Base in Turkey and a couple days later Russia moves onto it. That big smile….that… is on Putin’s Face…..Comrade Puppet Trump….you are doing well in your last months in the Presidency!

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-war-turkey-russian-troops-manbij-trump-erdogan-us-withdrawal-latest-a9157821.html

  62. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    As everybody knows I like movies. With King Kim of North Korea supposedly riding a horse up a sacred mountain it reminded me of a Korean movie that played on Netflix, Tiger. It was about the Japanese invasion of Korea in 1925 and their attempt to kill the last tiger in Korea that lived on a sacred mountain. Good film.

  63. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    So tell me CS…how many US troops do you want in Syria? I thought you leftists wanted the military out of the Middle East. Now all of a sudden because Trump wants to pull troops out…you have to be opposite. God forbid you ever agree with the president. Of course if President Obama did the same…you would be praising his brilliance and his well thought out foreign policy. By the way, where is the UN? Why aren’t they trying to mediate this conflict. I say good for the Russians…take over the base, use the tents we left behind. Let’s watch them get stuck in this 200 year conflict. So once again CS…how many more US troops lives do you want risk to carve out land in Syria for the Kurds? A hundred? A thousand? 5 thousand? How selfish to want to put our troops in danger just because of your hatred for our president.

  64. Doug, what flavor is the Kool-aid? Comparing Obama to Trump is comparing an Australian Shepherd to a Rock. I am an NPP voter….so your leftist rhetoric doesn’t stick. Good for the Russians?….now that’s real Patriotic……but then the President thinks being a Traitor is OK also, right?

    Actions speak louder than works.And his actions will land him in jail the day he is out of office…..

    How tiring for you to feel you must defend a Traitor….over and over…. Do I agree with the Traitor on most things?…ummm No. I am not a malignant narcissist…..so we don’t have much in common. And you?

    I believe in the Truth and the Constitution, and our Country…..Not Russia and Self Interest. And you? Loyalty Doug….where’s the loyalty pulling out and leaving those that fought on our behalf?…. oh that’s right…..a Malignant Narcissist wants that…but doesn’t “Give That”.

    I find it interesting how you label people that don’t agree with your orange guy as “you hate the president”….its that kind of thinking it got us into this mess….us against them……whites are the superior race etc…..I don’t hate anyone….I feel sorry for the poor chap….he has some serious issues!….but HIS serious issues affect 330 Million Americans….and the rest of the world…..We live in a Both/And World Doug…..not an Either/Or World……read up on Quantum Physics.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Shame on you CS for slipping in a phrase you claim I said “…whites are the superior race etc” I would appreciate you retracting that comment and apologizing for calling me a racist. of course I never and would never say such a racist comment. Of course I believe that is not true.
      I will address your other comments after your apology to me.

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        Doug Cook,

        You are a rabid defender of a blatant white supremacist who openly defends Nazis and other white supremacist groups, and promotes their agenda. Those groups admit that the purpose of their “rallies” is to incite violence, yet he wants to declare the people who protest them violent hate groups. He even labeled the white supremacists who were responsible for all the violence and death in Charlottesville “very fine people”, and based his entire campaign and presidency on pitting whites against dark-skinned people, who he claims are predominantly murderers, rapists, drug dealers, and terrorists.

        Violence against those groups has surged since Trump began his political career (which he openly incites), and Trump himself has even suggested just shooting down asylum-seekers at the border. He’s the only president who made ripping children away from their asylum-seeking families and throwing them into overcrowded concentrations camps with horrible conditions standard practice Now thousands of those children have been “lost”, with many winding up in adoption and foster care agencies with ties to his Secretary of Education, Betsy DeVos, which charge the taxpayers a fortune to house them.

        You support racism and white supremacy by supporting Trump. No one owes you an apology.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          Common Sense called me a racist. I don’t give a crap about your ridiculous over the top opinion of the president. I take offense to being labeled a racist. I have many times to you spelled out my working with and mentoring minority teens. Sonething I take great pride in. Oh yeah, what was your reply? That I just got off telling black kids what to do. Common Sense crossed the line with his despicable comment. You aren’t much better…you infer that I am a Nazi and a racist by my support of the president.
          Will the moderators censure Common Sense! I doubt it.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            My opinion of Trump isn’t “over the top” – there isn’t one thing I’ve said that isn’t provably true. By attempting to cover for and dismiss Trump’s blatant racism, you are endorsing and enabling it. The obvious conclusion is that anyone who can’t (or refuses to) see what he is shares his odious beliefs.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Your opinion of Trump is utter nonsense, and calling the 60 plus million of Americans that voted for him ( I did not) Nazis and racists is why you all will once again lose the election.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            My opinion of Trump is based on incontrovertible facts (point out one thing is my earlier comment that isn’t entirely true and I’ll prove you wrong – as I always do).

            And no – not everyone who voted for Trump was a white supremacist. Some were sexist, MANY were fundamentalist Old Testament-banging “Christians” who liked his promises to create laws that would force their primitive beliefs on the rest of the population and allow them to discriminate against groups they don’t approve of to their heart’s content (which he MORE than delivered on by placing their ilk in charge of the highest levels of government), and some were just uninformed.

            However, aside from the people for whom forcing their religious beliefs on everyone else is of paramount importance, Trump hasn’t delivered on the rest of his promises. Many people are worse off, entire industries he promised to save are collapsing, factories are closing right and left, and wages in some industries are actually falling for the first time ever.

            In addition, the country may not escape a full-blown recession, he hasn’t even delivered on his pointless, racist border wall (and shouldn’t be allowed to), and has been caught in potentially traitorous activities that most Americans now believe should lead to impeachment proceedings. On top of that he’s going completely to pieces right before our eyes.

          • Joanne Snyder Joanne Snyder says:

            He didn’t call you a racist, but he made a comment that might have made you think he did. “its that kind of thinking it got us into this mess….us against them……whites are the superior race etc…..I don’t hate anyone….I feel sorry for the poor chap…”. ANC seems like a court setting to me sometimes. Insinuations, faulty logic and emotions don’t work. The words carry weight.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Of course he called me a racist, Joanne. When he accused me of saying that I thought whites are a superior race, THAT in itself is labeling me as a racist. I never said that , and of course I don’t believe it.

  65. Avatar Common Sense says:

    The Cover just got blown off the “Turkey Cover Up”…… Trump, Barr, and Mnuchin are all in hot water.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-16/trump-erdogan-call-led-to-lengthy-push-to-avoid-halkbank-trial

    Trump, Barr, and Mnuchin entered into a criminal conspiracy to obstruct justice. This is a felony no matter why they did it.

  66. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    “If the party that runs state government can’t keep the lights on, runs the DMV into the ground, and oversees the worst income inequality and worst homeless crisis in the country, voters would usually be ready for an alternative. But not when the alternative hates immigrants, wants to make abortion illegal, and opposes marriage equality. Until Republicans join the 21st Century, Californians will choose the ineffectual over immigrant haters every time.”
    Quote from today’s LA Times.

  67. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    Income inequality and homelessness are by-products of California’s unequaled prosperity. It’s not just that Republicans are fixated on Jesus, guns, and dusky-colored immigrants. It’s also that there’s no way in Hell the GOP would do anything to defeat income inequality. In fact, since taking office, Trump has done everything in his power to increase it.

    • Avatar Tim says:

      Aside from jealousy, what exactly is wrong with income inequality? A 19 year old stoner playing video games all night and sleeping all day claiming an anxiety disability qualifies for $28,000/year worth of public benefits in Shasta County. Is that not enough?

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        Tim,

        I see you used the most unsympathetic example you could dream up. The person you described would likely only qualify for S.S.I. The current amount for one person(per the State of California website) is only $931 a month, or about $1,100 a years (well below the poverty line). Also, people on S.S.I. in California don’t qualify for food stamps, since the State adds to the base federal benefit rate of $770.

        I helped many of my tenants through the long and difficult process of applying for S.S.I. when I worked as a property manager, and it’s nowhere near as easy as you right-wingers seem to imagine. No matter how disabled, applicants are nearly always denied on the first try, and it’s unfortunately not all that unusual for people to actually die before it comes through (sometimes after winding up on the streets for lack of income).

        In addition, applicants have to go through a screening conducted by doctors who work for the State, whose job it is to deny every case they possibly can. The disabled person may make it on the second or third try (which could easily be three years into the process), but typically only if they have outside doctors who are very insistent. The States doctors also try to throw everyone they can into the “alcoholic” and “drug addict” category (even if drugs are only a minor side issue like dependence on painkillers for a legitimate physical disability) because those people are tossed off S.S.I. after only 6 months.

        Finally, you don’t seem to be aware of how many jobs are now part-time or even temporary in an attempt to keep wages low and avoid providing benefits. There are nowhere near enough living-wage jobs to go around, even for people who are older, educated, and experienced.

        • Avatar Tim says:

          Patrecia,

          Your info is out of date. As of June 2019, California residents on SSI/SSP qualify for Calfresh/food stamps ( https://www.cdss.ca.gov/inforesources/CalFresh/Supplemental-Security-Income ). Once you add up SSI, SSP, Calfresh, Section 8, Medi-Cal, CARE, etc you get ~$28,000/year in total benefits.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Tim,

            SSP is included in the $931 a month figure I cited above. In addition, Section 8 housing and certificates have waiting lists that can go on for years, many of the lists are closed entirely, and most people who qualify never receive this benefit. The same is true for CARE, which is severely limited.

            Also, I looked into the new law enabling S.S.I. recipients to receive food stamps. Many households still don’t qualify, the benefits are extremely minimal, and in cases of households where a non-S.S.I. recipient also resides, those non-qualifying households can actually lose the food stamps the non-S.S.I. person may already be receiving.

            The idea that every person on S.S.I. is receiving all of the benefits you listed is far from being the reality. Some do, but they are the exception rather than the rule.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            Some of the programs do take time to get set up, but CARE is not one of them. Enrolling is as simple as filling out an online application and then getting 20+% off your next 2 years’ utility bills: https://m.pge.com/#carefera/enroll .

            Yes it can take months to get approved for SSI & sometimes years for Section 8, but once approved you’re given fairly generous benefits the rest of your life. You will never have to worry about having a roof over your head, electricity at the switch, food in your fridge, phone & internet service, or access to medical care. You are, by every objective worldwide standard, quite rich!

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Tim,

            What bunk. You’d do well to check the actual waiting periods for subsidized housing/vouchers, which often run three to four YEARS.

            And as I mentioned earlier, I’ve had considerable experience with people applying for and receiving S.S.I. Aside from the extreme difficulty of getting on it in the first place, recipients are only classified as disabled in 6-month increments, with periodic reassessments by the State (and if State doctors claim that drugs or alcohol are in any way involved, you are bounced after the first 6 months). There is no “lifetime” entitlement unless you happen to be terminally ill and don’t live very long.

            It’s a right-wing lie that there is some vast number of people just gaming the system and taking advantage of you (but I know how right-wingers love to play the victim). It’s nowhere near as easy as you people like to imagine.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            There are no periodic medical reviews for someone on permanent disability – once you’re on, you’re on… But the point is that even the very bottom of society – those with no money of their own and unable to work – are objectively rich.

            People able to work 40 hours/week can earn at least $25,000/year and will still qualify for thousands in additional public benefits. So they’re even richer…

            No one in America is poor unless they chose to be. The whole income inequality charade boils down to petty jealousy. If you want to earn more, figure out a way to be more useful to others in a manner in which they’ll reward your efforts.

        • Joanne Snyder Joanne Snyder says:

          Great post Patricia. The few people who scam the system destroy its vision for everyone. I know a man on total disablility for a back problem who has a $20 an hour job on the side and goes deer hunting. I was chopping wood with a woman who was on total disability for her back. These are the people we think of instead of the people who can truely benefit for this program.

          • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

            Joanne, did you report these people to the disability office. The people in charge of disability, SS or worker’s compensation, are so overwhelmed with claims they can’t do routine checks. And in the few cases that require a checkup the disability person can fake, aided by a questionable doctor’s report, their disability for one meeting. Reporting these scammers is the first step.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Bruce,

            It is actually doctors working for the State (whose job is to deny as many applicants as possible) who conduct exams, take x-rays, etc., and it’s their findings on which both the original assessment and reassessments are based. Recommendations from other doctors serve only to get the person to that point in the process.

            I’m a little suspect of stories like these, since I’ve known people with terminal illnesses who have actually died from their disability after being repeatedly denied, without ever having received any benefits (which is probably the objective of those denials). I think there is something more here than meets the eye.

          • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

            Patricia, What state doctors conduct exams? Personal doctors conduct exams and the forms are sent into the state, federal offices and the claims are looked over by pencil pushers who have no idea what they are doing. A competent official will review the case on it’s merits not some conspiracy to deny benefits and make a determination. Power hungry officials will deny benefits because they have the power. There is no deny quota and that is why scammers get approved. And I hear all the time about someone who knows someone on disability that shouldn’t be but they never report them., which leads me to believe those are false claims.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            You can be on permanent disability and still work part time. You need to make less than $1220/month to apply for disability, but once on SSI you can make over $1600/month and still get (reduced) benefits.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Bruce,

            How many applicants have you helped through this long, difficult process? I’d estimate I’ve been involved with upwards of 30 or 40 people who have applied, and I can guarantee that they all saw doctors paid by the State before they received a single dime.

            And of course there is a push to deny as many people as possible, which is why nearly all applicants are denied on the first try (no matter how disabled), in the hope that they will either assume that’s the final word and just give up, or simply die of their disability before they have a chance to get through the application process again.

            That’s also why as many people as possible are shoved into the category of being drug or alcohol-addicted, despite whatever other disabilities they may have. People in those categories are given six months to get through a drug treatment program or otherwise cure themselves of their addictions, and are then bounced. If they can prove they’re alcohol and drug-free they can apply again for their physical disabilities, but it’s the same long song and dance.

            Even people who are applying for a mental health disability can’t just walk in and say they’re sick. They have to have a provable HISTORY of hospitalizations, arrests, assessments from a variety of sources etc. before they are tested by State-paid mental health professionals.

            I hear these anecdotal stories of people who are supposedly getting disability for “back problems”, which is the hardest thing to get disability for, even with x-rays that show a serious problem. That may be something the State takes into consideration, but it’s rarely the only – or even the main – reason they’re getting it. Did it ever strike you that people who make that claim may have other things wrong with them that they don’t want you to know about, or that the one day of chopping wood is followed by 3 or 4 days when they can barely get out of bed?

          • Avatar Tim says:

            Doctors don’t approve or deny, they just write their findings down. Social Security administrators approve ~36% of initial applications, 14% of initial appeals, and 64% appeals that make it to hearing. Statistically, a person who applies and is willing to appeal twice has an 80% chance of getting approved.

          • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

            Patricia, I stated there is no quota to refuse disability benefits. Prove me wrong. Show me where this quota is written down. Don’t deflect by saying the process is difficult.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Tim,

            Your figure is apparently a national average. However, it’s interesting that of the people who can go through the contortionistic process of applying THREE TIMES, 80 percent are approved. Since they obviously qualify, why not just approve them the first time?

            Of course the answer to that is obvious – the State is attempting to keep as many disabled people as possible off disability rolls by throwing an overwhelming number of obstacles in their paths.

            The link below gives us an indication of just how confusing and difficult this process really is:

            https://www.ssdrc.com/5-72.html

  68. Avatar Gary Tull says:

    “I’m begging the American people to pay attention to what is going on. Because if you want to have a democracy intact for your children, and your children’s children, and generations yet unborn we’ve got to guard this moment… this is our watch.”

    RIP, Elijah E. Cummings.

  69. Avatar Tim says:

    What’s the difference between the Titanic and California?
    .
    .
    .
    The Titanic kept its lights on when it sank.

  70. Avatar Larry Winter says:

    Pot growers and constitutional sheriff on the same page?

    There has been a rash of burglaries of permitted pot farms in the Mattole Valley of Southern Humboldt County that brought their County Supervisor and County Sheriff to a community meeting.

    One of the recommendations from Sheriff Honsal was to place”… signage that says there is armed security on the premises, which led a couple of people in attendance to point out that state and federal laws prohibit people from having firearms on property where cannabis is grown.”

    Someone pointed out a way around this law by creating an LLC corporation and then renting your house back to yourself. But Sheriff Honsal added this…
    “You have the right to arm yourself as a citizen,” he said. “You have the Second Amendment. I am a constitutional sheriff.”

    https://lostcoastoutpost.com/2019/oct/16/amid-wave-pot-farm-robberies-mattole-valley-reside/?fbclid=IwAR1HCkCU4W0ATEPlCy8DxW2ypPnq5dZjQ0LuTLKspIdSCXw_qOjofBGBnc4

  71. Joanne Snyder Joanne Snyder says:

    The purpose of an government is to govern and protect the citizens of that country. The results of bad governing can take time to filter through a country. Taking a country into an unnecessary and expensive war like the Soviet Union waged against Afghanistan or the U.S. invasion of Iraq had consequences that will ripple into the future. The Soviet Union went bankrupt (how are we going to bring that cosmonaut back to earth?!!!) and the U.S. slid towards a depression. There are millions of people searching for jobs….that could be brought back from other countries. The bottom line for any company is so obvious because of computers (shrink the can 1%, make people pay extra for the cosmetic brush, put less in the bag, include hidden fees and don’t hire people to answer the phone) and you’ve increased profits. It could be that we need to reconsider values that hold a country together.

  72. Avatar Tim says:

    The FBI requested and the state was granted a 1 year gun violence restraining order against a Washington State Neo-Nazi with a spotless criminal record. While as unsympathetic a victim as you can possibly imagine, what is chilling is that nothing in the petition indicated that Kaleb Cole personally threatened violence against anyone. The entire petition was based solely on his alleged regional leadership in the Atomwaffen Division, a white supremacist group espousing preparation for a race war.

    Petition: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6498181-19-2-25260-0-sub1-132497-Encrypted.html

    • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

      Tim,

      A “spotless record”? This guy is the leader of a violent Nazi group that is stock piling explosives (with plans to blow up the country’s infrastruture), a number of its members have been arrested for murder, and they idolize Timothy McVeigh, various mass shooters, Hitler, Manson, etc. etc. There is nothing “spotless” about him, even if he has yet to be caught and arrested for carrying out the stated plans of his group.

      Unfortunately taking their leader’s guns away isn’t going to accomplish anything, since criminals can always find replacements in the proliferation of guns floating around the country. Actually, I’m sure many of the group’s members can buy all the guns they want legally, given our nearly non-existent gun restrictions.

      I wonder if America is the only country in the world where the government is afraid to take guns away from people in groups with the sole purpose of committing mass violence.

      https://news.unclesamsmisguidedchildren.com/neo-nazi-leader-in-washington-state-has-guns-seized/

      • Avatar Tim says:

        He has a spotless criminal record — not even a traffic ticket. The law in Washington requires that the subject of the ERPO have committed or threatened to commit violence, yet no evidence was produced suggesting Cole did so. In fact, the only evidence directly mentioning Cole said the opposite – that he discourages other members from illegal activity. The rest was all generic evidence against Atomwaffen which presumably means any of its members can have their guns taken away regardless of individual threat.

        Yeah, he is a neo-nazi and that isn’t sympathetic, but what large group does not have prominent members who sometimes call for violence? Trump recently said he’d like to shoot immigrants – does that mean every Republican should be forced to give up their guns? Prominent Democrats have been known to call for violence at times — should we include all Democrats too?

  73. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    Seattle is dying relook. A King County councilman is proposing to spend $1 million to bus the homeless out of Seattle to elsewhere. He states it will reconnect up to 1000 homeless with family elsewhere.

  74. Avatar Candace says:

    Patrecia and Tim are both correct in that applying for permanent disability is not simply an easy “one and done” application for most who apply. Many people simply give up due to not being aware of or having needed help in navigating the process of “deny/deny/approve/…”. Unfortunately the intended use of attrition in that process as a way to weed out the “scammers”(?) also ends up denying much needed assistance to those truly in need. It’s seldom I hear people passing along stories of instances where someone was able to receive much needed financial help for a physical and/or mental disability/illness. Other than the fact that negative stories tend to gain more traction, there’s a good reason for this. That reason is called personal privacy.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Candace, We are currently spending over $150 Billion a year on disability payments. Claims have skyrocketed over the last 10 years. The expanded DI system was never designed to be used so heavily. Right now, less than 1% of workers that start on disability payments reenter the workforce. There are an estimated a couple million people who could work if necessary, and are instead choosing to subsist on taxpayer money. The system, from that perspective, is simply being abused.

    • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

      Candace, my wife had her knees replaced a dozen years ago. She found she could no longer work as a custodian and contacted SS about retraining. They told her that at her advanced age, 55, she should file for disability. SS sent her the forms which she filled out and her personal doctor filled out his forms. Three months later SS not only approved her disability but sent her a check for the past year that she had not been able to work. If someone is actually disabled it is “one and done”. Was she one example, I think most people get approved. It is the borderline cases that face obstacles.

      • Avatar candace says:

        Bruce, I’m pleased to hear that it worked out well for your wife. I have personal experience with others for whom it was a long, laborious process. Their case was not considered borderline. They are Autistic and the hurdles and hoops to jump over and through were many.

  75. Avatar candace says:

    Doug,
    I agree that claims are skyrocketing. No denying that. My point was that by simply applying once one is not guaranteed acceptance and that some who do need the help and have a harder time navigating the application process simply give up and therefore don’t get the help they need. Also, perhaps things aren’t always what they seem on the surface when it comes to other’s predicaments. Your reply prodded me to look further and I came across the following article that brings up things I either hadn’t known or hadn’t thought of. Perhaps you already know of all that’s talked about in it, I did not. Sorry but (embarrassingly) I don’t know how to make it a clickable link.
    https://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/

    • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

      Candace, very good link. The state with the highest percent on disability is a coal state, West Virginia, while another coal state, Wyoming, has one of the lowest percent. California is almost the lowest being beaten by Utah as the lowest. It does show that education is a prime factor in disability.

  76. Avatar Common Sense says:

    “I thought I was doing something very good” … “Crazed and Irrational hostility” … “I do like Russian people” … “Never give up” … and just for added measure, “Hillary’s gone Crazy!”

    Donald J Trump on Twitter.

    It’s about this time in the Drama with those that “Still” defend this 5150, we have to wonder about their own sanity.

    If someone on the city street shouted this out….you would slowly back away….hoping a police car was in the immediate area hoping to get this individual a little “Help”. He is not well.

    • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

      Democrats do not need to worry. As the candidates are eating their own, Clinton is calling out other Democrats for being Russian agents. You have to doubt the sanity of anyone that can’t see the remade Clinton will now ride in and rescue the DNC. Rematch of 2016 Clinton/Trump. Who will win this time? Grab some popcorn the sequel is coming.

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        Clinton’s problem is that she will have to get Democrat funding…no Democrat big money is interested in Clinton right now…nor should they be. Will she run? She certainly wants to, but without a war chest she won’t go anywhere. Speaking of funding, Biden’s donations have dried up. He is overspending and not bringing in enough to replace his spending. He only has $9 million in the bank.
        The Democrats need to look at the other candidates and take them seriously. I would in a minute vote for an Amy Klobuchar Mayor Pete ticket, or Klobuchar and Tulsi Gabbert ticket. There are millions of moderate Republicans like me that are dying to vote for a sensible moderate Democrat. A Warren candidacy…Biden and Sanders are done, will doom the Democrats and hand Trump another 4 years.

        • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

          Don’t make the mistake that Clinton couldn’t raise money. With the score of Dems now running the big money would immediately jump on Clinton’s train. It is all about beating Trump and Clinton would still win the coasts. She would focus on the middle states, where Trump won and very likely he could lose this time. Clinton reborn wouldn’t make the same overconfident mistakes. A big choice would be her VP who would not come from the coasts. Clinton and Buttgieg could very easily win it.

          • Avatar Larry Winter says:

            Her biggest overconfident mistake would be to get into this race. It won’t happen.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            What would be interesting is that if Clinton does jump in, she will have to rely on Wall St for money. We already know how chummy she is with the rich and powerful. It would be difficult for Democrats to reconcile voting for another Wall St. fat cat. She is much more of a Hawk than President Trump…but all of the sudden the Democrats want troops to stay in the Middle East, so that may help her.
            What is Clinton going to run on? The economy? Is she going to convince the Rust Belt that she could do better then this administration can on the economy? Not very likely. The Justice Dept investigations of her coming to light is showing the level of her corruption, that won’t help her.
            But the real reason she won’t win is the millions of Republicans and Independents like me who are begging to vote for a moderate Democrat will go running back to Trump if Clinton is the nominee.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            One of the first things Trump did was to load his cabinet with billionaires and Wall Street tycoons, who immediately started pushing for lower taxes on corporations and the wealthy, doing away with oversight of the financial industry, and other failed trickle-down policies.

            And of course Clinton isn’t going to run (that’s just wishful thinking on your part, Doug). The Rust Belt/Mid-western states that put Trump in office have been bleeding manufacturing jobs, and the coal industry (which Trump promised to save) is collapsing. Warren and Sanders are actually very popular in those states.

            https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-trump-cabinet-billionaires-wall-street-20161201-story.html#

  77. Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

    And BTW Doug – Democrats don’t “want troops to stay in the Middle East” (what a wildly inaccurate statement). Both Republicans and Democrats strongly object to Trump abandoning the Kurds, while moving troops to Saudi Arabia (the country actually responsible for the 9/11 attacks) to protect Saudi royalty who have poured millions of dollars into Trump’s businesses.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      I think you are correct that Clinton won’t run. So what does that leave us with? An old white guy that just had a heart attack? Another old white guy that can’t raise money? An old white lady that wants to raise your taxes and spend the country into oblivion? Start looking at other candidates that don’t start with HRC. The Democrat party is in big trouble right now.
      As far as the Kurds.. I’m sure you have never cared a lick about the Kurds. I know the left never cared about the Kuwait people when we liberated them from Iraq. Why all of a sudden do you give a hoot about the Kurds now? Oh yeah, simply because of your hate for the president. So you are willing to sacrifice American troops just because you don’t want to agree with the POTUS…how selfish.

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        Doug Cook,

        What a childish comment. Even his own party has universally condemned Trump’s abandonment of the Kurds, and his transfer of troops to his buddies in Saudi Arabia.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          Patrecia, what is false about my comment? It’s not childish…it is the truth. Were you just as outraged over President Obama cozying up to the Saudis? The billions in Military aid given to them and US troops in Saudi during his term? As Trump said ..why should the US help divide up Syria for the Kurds? Where is the UN? Have you heard anything from the UN? There were only 50 troops they pulled out. It is not the job of the US military to be human shields. Rather interesting to see you as a new Hawk.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            I can’t speak for Patrecia, but yes, I’ve been outraged at every POTUS who has cozied up to the Saudis. I give Obama credit for giving them the coldest shoulder of the past half-dozen presidents. The Saudis are a murderous, repressive, authoritarian, anti-democratic, anti-intellectual, nouveau riche gang of thugs. They export terrorism. They jail and murder journalists. They repress women, religious minorities, and the foreigners who do all their work.

            In the wake of 9/11, if we were gonna attack anyone, it shoulda been Saudi Arabia, not Iraq.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Steve – Well said (thank you).

  78. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    Clinton won the 2016 popular vote. I doubt you could find even one voter who voted for HRC in 2016 that would switch to Trump in 2020 if she ran. AOC just endorsed Sanders and Warren’s call for Medicare for All is a losing strategy that even some Democrats state. The big money is looking for someone stable and that would be Clinton. Trump’s latest move to abandon the Kurds has lost him a lot of support from his own party. If Clinton runs she will win.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Bruce, I doubt the Electoral map will change much in 2020 if Clinton runs. Since that is how we elect the president, popular vote doesn’t mean much. For instance. Biden still holds a formidable lead in the national polls, but in the early states, Warren is leading. I also think a lot of ‘never Trumpers’ Republicans and Independents (I’m in that group) will vote for Trump in 2020…and don’t forget the turnout. If Biden or Warren get the nomination, young people will stay home in droves

    • Avatar Larry Winter says:

      Trump won on populist platitudes that people ate up despite coming from a known con man. Those are the voters that Sanders could have won over due to his long standing populist positions. Since Hilary was a status quo, entrenched politician, she didn’t appeal to these people.

      That dynamic still exists today between Trump and Hillary.

  79. Avatar Common Sense says:

    One can learn from History….well if they want to learn that is.

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/3/25/1845142/-The-Big-Lie-Propaganda-Principle-1

  80. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    Mr. Anderson from Anderson. This will be self-reported, of course, as a guy defending himself with his gun.

    http://krcrtv.com/news/shasta-county/man-arrested-for-shooting-toward-neighbor-while-drunk-in-shasta-county

  81. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    Join the real world Steve. Yes, countries often have to cozy up to awful regimes. Obama had no problem becoming friends with Cuba, who also has horrendous human rights abuses. The best thing we could have done is to become energy independent. We don’t need Saudi ad we did before, thanks to frakking and expanded oil drilling. The world is very complicated, It is rather naive to believe that we should only deal with only squeeky clean countries. China makes Saudi look like Boy Scouts, but as long as we get inexpensive products from them, nobody complains.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      Doug sez: “It is rather naive to believe that we should only deal with only squeeky clean countries.”

      I’ll give you some time to find where I said we should not deal the the Saudis, or anyone else. If you can find it, I’ll own it.

      If you can’t find it, I’ll ask that you take your straw-man accusation of naïveté and deposit it where sunlight is rare.

      There’s a difference between normalizing diplomatic relations with Cuba and selling shit-tons of weaponry to a dictatorship in the volatile Middle East—a theocratic dictatorship whose foundational culture has something of an apocalypse fetish. (Who’s naive?)

  82. Avatar Linda Cooper says:

    I am in here, in the dark side of my mind. And yet grateful that the windows to my physical house are wide open, and I’m embracing the view. It’s a new view in the burbs. Not like old home in Shasta. But still.
    Meanwhile, someone posts “join the real world Steve.”
    My monkey mind jumps to the aspects that the mentioned Steve, RV, and others are the only
    real reason I return to the ANC.
    I noticed that the last post is at 9:15 am.
    I feel delighted.
    I’ve just turned 70! and still want to mention boycott!
    Don’t comment people after this people! (And yet I am).
    Let’s give it one day, and send the someone in peace, to rest?
    Just for one day?

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Yes Linda…sometimes we have to join the real world. Of course there are bad regimes that we have to have relationships with. Those are the facts of life…President Obama normalized relationships with Cuba that has a horrific human rights record. As electric cars become more popular, we need to get Nickel for the batteries from Russia and China. That is what I mean by joining the real world, we have to work with a lot of bad actors.
      What boycott are you mentioning? Boycotting what?
      I too enjoy reading RV and Steve as well as other contributors…I also enjoy reading comments from those that I disagree with., I often learn something or even have my mind changed. Try it, you may like it.

  83. Avatar Common Sense says:

    The Trumptanic is down to 2 Cylinders on the old Wärtsilä Engine.

    Mitch McConnell is now in full “Distance” mode as he kicks the skipper a couple of times while he is trying to get up from the deck.

    Mittens may move in with a couple more punches, but today’s testimony from Bill Taylor pretty much puts all but the last couple of nails in the coffin.

    The flood gates are now fully opening up…..the “Beginning of the End” is now in motion…..All GOP folks looking at Re Election and those that come up with it’s not going to happen chained to the Trumptanic still will start to undo their chains and distance themselves accordingly.

    No it’s not a Lynching Captain….It’s Justice…..and it’s slow….but effective when it finally happens!

  84. Avatar Tim says:

    Seattle is proposing a new “woke math” curriculum for next fall:

    Students will be taught how “ancient mathematical knowledge has been appropriated by Western culture” and will be able to “identify the inherent inequities of the standardized testing system used to oppress and marginalize people and communities of color,” “explain how math has been used to exploit natural resources,” and “explain how math dictates economic oppression.”

    https://www.k12.wa.us/sites/default/files/public/socialstudies/pubdocs/Math%20SDS%20ES%20Framework.pdf

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      Before we get our panties in a knot, I was taught in my math classes that our numbering system is Hindu-Arabic. I was taught which Greek African invented geometry, the Arab who invented Algebra, and the Europeans who developed trigonometry, calculus, probability theory, etc. I was taught that the Chinese independently invented mathematics that paralleled western mathematics in substantive ways, and how to use an abacus. When I learned about bases, I was taught that the base-10 system isn’t universal, and which cultures historically used other bases. The Aztecs used base 10. The Mesopotamians used base 60–an artifact of which is found in how we measure time. Most of the world has adopted the base 10 metric system; the USA stubbornly holds onto the base 12 system. (Want to buy a dozen eggs? A gross? How many board feet of 2x4s do you need?)

      We can squabble about how the histories I was taught were simplified for elementary education, but I don’t think it harmed me to know a little about those origins, as opposed to remaining pig-ignorant.

      As for teaching in math classes that math is a tool of oppression…I agree, that’s stupid. But I think I’ll hold my red-faced outrage until it’s revealed what actually makes it into “woke” curricula, as Seattle is merely at the proposal stage.

      Whatever they come up with, I’m sure it’ll beat what the home-schooled Christian kids I saw on TV were capable of. Maybe that 6th-grade-aged girl knows what cubits and zerets are, but she couldn’t handle 6 x 6. Their mom’s defense: “We don’t do much math, but we’ve read all the way through Joshua!”

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        *The Aztecs used base 20. My left eye for an edit function.

      • Avatar Tim says:

        I don’t have a big problem with students learning the origins of math, though I’d question its efficacy when the US already lags behind almost every other developed nation in math scores. I do have a problem with kids being taught that math is a tool of oppression and with victim mentality complaints of appropriation (learning from others and adopting best practices = appropriation).

        PS: On average, homeschooled kids test significantly higher: 84th-89th percentile (depending on subject) for homeschooled vs 50th percentile for public school on the California Achievement Tests.

  85. Avatar Common Sense says:

    35 Years ago a KGB agent ( Yuri Alexandrovich Bezmenov) who Defected To Canada described where were are today in the USA.

    Ideological Subversion-to change the perception of reality of every American to such an extent that despite of the abundance of information no one is able to come to sensible conclusions in the interest of defending themselves, their families, their community, and their country.

    Russia plays the long slow game…..Putin was a KGB Agent.

  86. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    You gotta love it…Gavin Newsom called for an investigation into high fuel prices in our state. In the last 5 years, Californian drivers paid an additional $11.6 billion at the pump compared to the rest of the country. Newsom wants to blame the oil companies for gouging. Totally ignoring the repeated increases in the gas tax, fees and the unique expensive blends of gasoline we are forced to use. By the way…our new gas taxes that hit us twice in the last couple of years that was supposed to go to maintaining our roads? Yep…Newsom is siphoning off tens of millions of dollars of that money for mass transit projects. That is our corrupt state for ya’

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      Doug sez: “ By the way…our new gas taxes that hit us twice in the last couple of years that was supposed to go to maintaining our roads? Yep…Newsom is siphoning off tens of millions of dollars of that money for mass transit projects. That is our corrupt state for ya’”

      If you actually bother to look at the text of SB1, it funds a far broader range of programs than road maintenance.

      You may not agree with the legally mandated allocations, but Newsom is obligated by law to allocate as mandated. Toaccuse the governor of “siphoning off” the funds that you’d rather have spent elsewhere, and to call that “corrupt,” is not just wrong. It’s a damned lie.

  87. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    Today a group of about two dozen GOP HOR members stormed a closed meeting held to depose Deputy Assistant Defense Secretary Laura Cooper. Their primary demand was that the hearing be held in public. They breached security protocols by taking recording devices into the deposition room.

    During Obama’s tenure, there were ten Benghazi investigations: one by the FBI; one by an independent board commissioned by the State Department; two by Democrat-controlled Senate Committees; and six by Republican-controlled House Committees. After the first five Republican investigations found no evidence of wrongdoing by senior Obama administration officials, Republicans in 2014 opened a sixth investigation, the House Select Committee on Benghazi, chaired by Trey Gowdy. This investigation also failed to find any evidence of wrongdoing by senior Obama administration officials.

    Thirty-two of the 33 hearings on the Benghazi matter were closed—all but Hillary Clinton’s 11 hours of public testimony before Gowdy’s committee. The Obama Administration fully cooperated and didn’t refuse to comply with a single subpoena.

    In which situation are the subjects of the investigations acting like they are guilty as f***?

    • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

      Unlike their mascot, Republicans appear to have short memories.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      The Benghazi investigations found plenty of systemic failures from the administration, State Dept, intelligence services and the military. That is what they were looking for and found. ‘Wrongdoings’ is the wrong word to use. There were many many mistakes made in Benghazi and leading up to Benghazi. Each investigation dealt with a different aspect of the issue.
      I applaud the GOP for storming this meeting. Why does Schiff need closed hearings? Why do they only leak what they want leaked? Where is the transparency in government? These hearings are dealing with the impeachment of our president. The entire Congress and the American citizens deserve open hearings.

      • Avatar Larry Winter says:

        Relax Doug, the public will have plenty of opportunities to hear the facts in public before it’s all said and done. And surely you know the reason the Democrats are keeping these depositions private. It’s all over the news.
        Trey Gowdy had to say about the ex-Trump lawyer Cohen’s public testimony was that it was useless, more of a public show by the Democrats to harm Trump in the public eye. That closed hearings was much more desirable…

        “Let me ask you this: What serious finder of fact can you name that identifies information in five-minute increments and does it on television and flips from one side to the other? Grand jury doesn’t do it. Your local sheriff doesn’t do it. The United States attorney doesn’t do it.”

        https://www.thedailybeast.com/trey-gowdy-who-led-11-hour-benghazi-hearing-declares-public-congressional-hearings-utterly-useless

      • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

        Trump is going down. Get used to it.

        • Avatar Common Sense says:

          Summer Zervos might help speed the process up with her airtight case!

          Summer Zervos has launched a defamation lawsuit against Trump, who claimed he never even met her, let alone sexually assaulted her.

          Besides being a traitor, a serial liar, a cheat, a thief, an embezzler, a money launderer, a tax criminal, a stochastic terrorist, a bigot, a betrayer, a malignant narcissist, a quasi-literate oaf and an idiot, Donald Trump may also be a rapist. Innocent until proven guilty…..

          Where are the Evangelicals on all this??? Still support the guy? Wow….say goodbye to that Moral Capital if you do!

  88. Avatar Linda Cooper says:

    So, Doug Cook. You wrote, “I applaud the GOP for storming this meeting.” Well, you are in your good company! Doug LaMalfa was there too! Was that exciting for you? (Memo to self: I don’t care if she has a chirpy voice, she is sincere and I will vote for Audrey, and I will continue to campaign for her, only big time.)

    I would entertain asking what aspect of this “storming” you applaud. Was it the fact that it lacked in process and decorum. Did you like the fact that the pizza boxes were left behind by the storming people? AKA House of Rep Republicans. You know, leave no trash behind, ha, ha. Or was it putting the country in jeopardy with the storming people’s cell phone devices. Or was it delaying the hearing by five hours? Was that fun? Or will you tell your grandchildren that this is the correct way to protest. Fun! Storm into their classrooms!

    I am frankly surprised at the Democrats that they have been so centered with these investigations. And, as some people mentioned, Republicans are in the room as well, and all the transcripts will come out eventually. Meanwhile, we the people, are not subject to Monkey Mind daily.

    The data is being collected in a mindful way, Doug. And you and everyone else will be privy to the full exposure. There are no secrets. As we will hopefully learn regarding Trump.

    You obviously appreciate the stormy side of life, Doug. You and others. Meanwhile I would suggest you proceed with caution. There is a country here at risk, and other countries as well. News flash: it’s a world wide web. For you to “applaud” what happened today is unconscionable to me. And so very alarming and sad.

    • Avatar Miguel says:

      For this side of the aisle, at this point in time, to suddenly begin championing “transparency” as their talking point (argument) … Ummm. Am I suppose to laugh? Cry? Or crawl into the corner and start sucking my thumb?

  89. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    Linda, I guess I should have not repeated the characterization of ‘storming’ the hearing. Why can’t members of Congress be able to attend a congressional hearing? What is Schiff hiding? How do you know data is being collected in a mindful way? We have no proof of that. What we know is that the Democrats have been trying to impeach the president since he got sworn in. It is a verdict looking for a crime. Was Schiff mindful when he pushed to impeach the president over Russian collusion? Remember this guaranteed proof that he would never show us. Forget collusion… obstruction! We got him on obstruction. Well..they ran away from the obstruction charges. Look. .here’s the deal, any president could have been brought up for impeachment charges. Obama could have been impeached for obstruction with Fast and Furious. He could have been impeached for the targeting and droning of American citizens. That was unconstitutional. But We don’t do that, we don’t impeach presidents because we don’t like them. Here’s an idea Linda…maybe the Democrats should focus their energy to find viable candidate that can beat President Trump. So far they are failing miserably. How many Americans will support Warren’s plan to provide taxpayer funded sex reassignment surgery for illegal aliens? Think that is a winning strategy? That’s going to beat Trump? The Democrats are in such bad shape, it looks like Hillary will jump in..LOL, I can hardly wait.

  90. Avatar Candace says:

    As far as I’m concerned the gleeful, salivating, “grab your popcorn, LOL Hillary’s jumpin’ in” rhetoric (as if the outcome of our next presidential election is one big vindictive joke meant solely for one’s personal viewing pleasure) doesn’t jive with claiming to be bi-partisan, wanting differing political parties to work across the aisle for the good of our country, blah, blah, blah. Whether one is or isn’t a Hillary hater, continually calling people unhinged Trump haters while at the same time spewing that sort of mindless, (meant to provoke tit-for-tat argument) crap is pretty telling. That’s not the stuff of intelligent debate.

    • Avatar Tim says:

      “Party politics today is a race to the boxcars; first team there gets to make the other team ride.”

      -Tamara K (BooksBikesBoomsticks)

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      I have never called anyone unhinged. I believe the Democrat party right now is misguided. I think it is rather significant that HRC is considering jumping in, and goes to the issue of how we pick candidates. Maybe it’s time to go back to the days where presidential candidates were chosen in the proverbial smoke filled backrooms. I would love to see bipartisan cooperation. The Democrat party has moved so far left, and the Trump hysteria is so out of hand, that is course is impossible. What has Congress done since the midterms? Have they even discussed immigration? The debt? Health care? Anything but Trump?
      Here is a good example, Candace. For 2 complete days, the latest scandal and leading the news on every channel was the president using the word ‘lynching’. Oh the outraged! What a racist! Impeach him! Biden called the use of that word despicable…oh the horror, until someone dug up a video of Biden using lynching to describe the Clinton impeachment. I saw a montage of at least 10 politicians, many black, using that word to describe the Clinton impeachment. Oops, then the story goes away. Why? This Trump hysteria has to stop. By the way…I would have been just as gleeful if Jeb Bush jumped into the race. It would be just as ridiculous as HRC jumping in. Again, I think it is important for Democrats and it should be debated as to the horrible selection process. I saw a lot of Democrat pundits on TV the last couple of days with the same gleeful salivating tones, mocking the idea of HRC jumping in. It’s not just me. What is your opinion of a HRC run?

      • Avatar Candace says:

        Doug, so I didn’t pick the correct adjective. Surely even you can admit it’s in the same ballpark as the “hysterical” “hair on fire”, “over the top ridiculous” descriptions you typically assign non-Trump supporters on this forum. Your statement regarding Jeb Bush only serves to solidify my original point and what I personally think about HRC is neither here nor there. Most of us with children teach them at an early age that “It wasn’t just me doing it” isn’t an acceptable excuse for bad behavior. Obviously people are extremely polarized right now and tempers flare (admittedly mine as well) but even so there are those on this forum who step up, apologize, retract and/or sometimes even compliment others with whom they typically vehemently disagree. THAT’S the stuff of intelligent debate, not the “grab the popcorn, get ready for a shit show, LOL” stuff.

  91. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    Trump said he is building a beautiful wall in Colorado. Does he think New Mexico, where Longmire was filmed, is part of Mexico? At this point I believe anybody could defeat Trump.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      Bruce, we all believed that last time. Even Trump.

      His secret weapon—unknown to even Trump at the time—are the large numbers of people who aren’t Goober or Gomer enough to admit publicly that they’re authoritarian, proto-fascist supporters of Orange Mussolini.

      Hillary’s complacency is what lost it in 2016. In the final week or so she was off doing victory laps in safe states that she’d ignored up to that point. Much to my eldest daughter’s chagrin, I’ll never forgive her for her arrogance. I will die with Trump’s Supreme Court in place.

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        It wasn’t her complacency…she was a horrible candidate and Americans saw through her corruption and swampiness. We did not want that, we wanted something different. When you call Trump supporters goobers and gomers, call them fascists and racists, you don’t think that energizes moderates like me? When a leading Democrat candidate wants taxpayer funded gender reassignment surgery for illegal aliens, you think that is going to poll well in middle America? Don’t blame Clinton complacency. Blame the Democrats for choosing the worst candidate ever…and this cycle, you can blame the Democrat party in zooming way to the left.

        • Avatar Larry Winter says:

          A Trump defender touting the ability of American voters seeing through Hilary’s corruption and swampiness.

          Corruption and swampiness won the day anyway.

          How can you have it both ways?

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          Doug — Dude, Clinton won the popular vote by 3 million—Americans didn’t get what they wanted. Hillary lost precisely because of complacency—she ignored down the stretch the realities of the electoral college, which has given the last two GOP presidents the office while failing to win pluralities of the vote.

          If Hillary was the worst candidate ever, what does that make Trump with millions fewer votes?

          As for the Demos shifting radically left…that’s rich, coming from a member of the party that’s sold its soul to hair-on-fire evangelicals, bigoted mouth-breathers, and gun-humpers. You guys are so far right at this point that there’s nowhere to go except an all-out authoritarian plutocratic dictatorship.

          Lastly, I’m buying the moderate guise. I buy it with Bruce, but in you it just rings false. You’re voting for Trump again. You can’t bullshit a bullshitter.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Unlike RV…I did not vote for Trump. I would love to vote for a moderate Democrat over President Trump. But the Democrats aren’t smart enough to present one for us. The best candidate that can actually be attractive to both sides is Amy Klobuchar, but she is polling in single digits. Once again Steve I have to continually remind you that we don’t choose a president by popular vote. So let’s give Trump credit for actually knowing how to play by the rules. Do tell me…are you eager for HTC to jump in? Have you watched any of the debates? You don’t think the Democrat party has moved radically to the left? Obama would be called a racist today with his 2009 immigration policy.

          • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

            Doug Cook thinks he can get to me by reminding people I voted for Trump. It’s true, I got snookered. I had no idea Trump was literally criminally insane. Plus I despise Hillary Clinton for the same reasons as Tulsi Gabbard. But Trump has completely fulfilled my Plan B for voting for him, which was his capacity for disruption. It would be LOL if the global stakes weren’t so high. Instead of shining a light on the Deep State, Trump the criminal created his own Shallow State channel in Ukraine, and possibly in the Middle East. Shallow because batshit crazy Rudy Giuliani, Sean Hannity, John Solomon and a whole bunch of other Trump friendlies have cozied up to indicted pro-Russian Ukrainian oligarchs. I hear the tear drops coming.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Doug Cook says “He knows how to play by the rules”. What rules? Mafia 101?

            The electoral college disenfranchises millions of voters, in parts of the country that didn’t even exist when it was created. That antiquated compromise should have been done away with long ago. However, I’ll say one thing in its favor – in the vast majority of elections it hasn’t interfered with the will of the people, since Trump is only one of five presidents in the entire history of the country who didn’t get both the actual and electoral college votes.

          • Avatar Larry Winter says:

            Doug, the Republican President says that ” Never Trumpers are human scum.”

            You defend this man so don’t pretend to tell us what the Democratic candidates should be like or not be like. It’s a Democratic Party issue.

            Calling yourself a moderate while defending Trump belies your pretense to moderation.

        • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

          Doug Cook,

          The last presidential election was ALL about complacency. If Democratic voters hadn’t been complacent enough to believe the polls (and their own sense of decency, which told them there was virtually no chance that a demented, racist con man and admitted serial sex criminal could win), they would have turned out in greater numbers. They were obviously much less complacent in the mid-terms, since Republicans lost an entire branch of government, and a number of tranditionally Republican govenorships.

          There is no one more “corrupt” than Trump. As I pointed out earlier, he immediately loaded his cabinet with Wall Street tycoons and billionaires, who (predictably) pushed through policies that overwhelmingly benefitted the one percent and corporate powers, and removed oversight of the financial industry (while adding trillions of dollars to the national debt).

          There is also the fact that he’s one of the most personally corrupt people on the planet, which has now led to provably treasonist acts. We knew even before the election that he is wildly corrupt in his business dealings, and that he was going to great lengths (and still is) to hide his financial information and conflicts of interests. Now we have witness after witness testifying that he very deliberately withheld $400 million in military aid from the Ukraine in order to blackmail its president into digging up non-existent dirt on his main political rival.

          Trump is so derranged and sociopathic that he believes the entire world exists just to add to his power and wealth, and to serve his ego. He’s so obviously mentally and morally unfit (per entire national psychiatric associations and countless other mental health professionals) that he should never have been allowed to assume office to begin with.

          And BTW Doug – you aren’t a “moderate”.

        • Avatar Larry Winter says:

          I should add that the human scum quote was directed at fellow Republicans.

  92. Avatar Larry Winter says:

    I remember when Dungeons and Dragons was a popular fantasy game that brought people together to play out a particular fantasy, but boy, this fantasy game of New California State has taken it to a new level.

    Rick Perry has been nominated to be the interim Governor of the New California State (not to be confused with the Jefferson State fantasy movement). The New California’s interim State Legislature, which is already in place, will vote on the nomination at the end of the month.
    https://www.theepochtimes.com/rick-perry-nominated-as-interim-governor-of-new-california-state_3125368.html?fbclid=IwAR1GByujCkrbBqV5RPIYAZwbNlpu2EBsb15u5_Oa2WcZpVSTmFjWB2Edz2c

    Our dreams don’t have to be reality based, right?

    • Avatar Tim says:

      My life would be significantly improved under such a state. I’m glad to see they are taking the constitutional approach, but it won’t ever happen — the population centers of SF & LA have to approve our independence, but they’re dependent on our resources. The state Democrat supermajority also wouldn’t want to let us add two more moderate or conservative senators to congress.

  93. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    How can we have bipartisan agreement between Democrats and Republicans when both parties don’t have bipartisan agreement within their own party?

  94. R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

    So now that I’m a cat owner times six, I buy my kitty litter in these big five gallon plastic tubs. I was wondering what I was going to do with them, and then it hit me. I’ll need every last one of them to catch the tears of Trump supporters, because our criminal president is going down, and they don’t even know it, because their media system has become more corrupted than the mainstream media, and that’s saying something. Turn off the radio, boys, it’s frying your brain. If it’s not too late already.

      • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

        That’s a dated meme. Obviously, I’m not some snowflake SJW or Trump supporter. Trump is toast. You’ve been so busy copying and pasting statistics, he just about stole the country under your nose. Don’t wanna be there when you wake up, but I will be, with 40 5 gallon tubs to catch your tears.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          I’ll bet a steak dinner that Pelosi doesn’t call for an impeachment vote. This is just fodder for the Democrats to weaken the president. Why? Because they don’t have a strong candidate to beat him. It’s interesting that I read very little on these pages discussing candidates platforms. Ok, I got it… President Trump is a crappy president, I can’t disagree with that, mostly. But he hasn’t started WWIII, he hasn’t ruined the economy, he’s done a good job with federal and SCOTUS judges, rolling back harmful regulations. Treat him fairly, let him govern, and find a candidate to beat him. It’s not the end of the world that Donald J Trump is our president. I go back to my example of the lynching comment. 48 hours of a pearl clutching news cycle about that until Biden was shown saying the same thing during Clinton’s impeachment. Good lord people. Get a different hobby than obsessing about a president.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Doug Cook,

            Clinton was impeached for lying about having an affair, and I’m sure you were just fine with that. Trump paid huge sums of money to a porn star and a Playboy centerfold to keep quiet about his affairs with them just prior to the election to influence its outcome. He also lied about sexually abusing countless women after being caught admitting to that abuse when he thought no one would ever hear his bragging admission.

            The Mueller report proved Trump blatantly attempted to obstruct an investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election, which resulted in numerous arrests of his close associates (and didn’t rule out Trump being personally involved). Now he’s been caught red handed (per a whole series of credible witnesses) abusing the power of his office to blackmail a foreign government into digging up non-existent dirt on his main political rival. Why is it that you think the country should just ignore that treasonous act?

            And far from “doing a good job” appointing Supreme Court and federal judges – he has loaded not only the court system by the highest levels of the federal government with flaming God-in-government dominionists who openly admit they want to deprive entire groups of hard-won civil rights, decimate the public school system in favor of funding fundamentalist religious schools, force women backwards into sexual bondage and millions of families into homelessness, deprive gay people of housing, employment, etc., base our country’s laws on the brutal Old Testament, and give white (straight) males special privileges at everyone else’s expense. Exactly what’s “good” about any of that?

          • Joe Domke Joe Domke says:

            aNewsCafe.com admin has removed a comment in this thread and its subsequent reply.

          • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

            I make a comment about one of the trolls on here and my comment is awaiting moderation while the troll keeps endlessly posting on hogging all the space.

        • Avatar Tim says:

          I agree with Doug. Trump hasn’t *done* anything truly awful. You may disagree with some, most, or all of his policies, but the daily stream of TDS generally stems from dumb stuff Trump says/tweets instead of what he actually does/enacts.

          Remember that we are a country that re-elected George W Bush AFTER we knew he used our post 9/11 fear and anger to get us into a war we had no business starting. 150,000+ dead Iraqis vs some folks not able to use the restroom they’d like and some criminal trespassers being treated like, well, criminals?

          • Avatar Larry Winter says:

            One thing that Trump has *done* is to expose the fact that character doesn’t matter in becoming the most powerful man on earth. That the “ends justifies the means” continues to be the dominant perspective in a nation that created a process of governance where the “means justifies the ends”. A government of laws, not of men.
            Trump believes he is the law and calls out those opposed to him as traitors, enemies of the State, and “human scum”.

            Sure, we can disagree with policies and programs, but to justify agreement with his policies as the best defense of this malignant narcissist of a man goes beyond normalcy.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            The claim that Trump “hasn’t done anything truly awful” is ludicrous.

            His racist rhetoric, other hate speech, and open incitements to violence are responsible for a whopping 17 percent surge in hate crimes since he took office, and countless other crimes of that type that weren’t officially classified under that designation – including multiple murders, numerous physical assaults with serious injury, and thousands of other acts of terrorism committed against innocent people based solely on their race, religion, gender, and sexual orientation.

            He also inspired a resurgence of white supremacist hate groups, which are now holding entire cities hostage, and costing the citizens of those cities and local governments millions of dollars.

            In addition, he’s gone a long way toward ruining America’s international reputation, has alienated America’s allies, has harmed small business owners with his nutty nationalistic trade and immigration policies, and is aggressively pushing other policies that will force millions of low-income children and elderly/disabled people into homelessness, will deprive gay people of employment, housing and other basic services, and will force women to become unwilling incubators under penalty of imprisonment. What more “harm” does anyone need?

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            And of course there is also this incalculable amount of “harm” to thousands of children:

            https://www.mail.com/news/politics/9487676-tally-children-split-border-tops-5400-count.html#.7518-stage-hero1-1

  95. Avatar candace says:

    I think there are some very smart Democratic presidential candidates. I think a couple of them are milquetoast and I think referring to Sanders and Warren as radicals is comical. At this point, while I prefer some over others, any Democratic candidate would be preferable to me over the wrecking ball currently taking up space in the Oval Office. Also, from what I can tell the term “social justice” didn’t start out as a pejorative term. The term “social justice warrior” was born from an actual game meme (?) during Gamergate as a way to silence and dismiss anything deemed as feminism when boys felt threatened by women joining their “no girls allowed” gaming industry club. From there it was picked up and mainstreamed by alt-right and conservative folks alike in the media to serve the same purpose while broadening the meaning to include vapidness and self-aggrandizing moral grandstanding. While I’m certain there are others on this forum who are more educated and better better versed than I regarding the origin of common terms, I find the co-opting of that particular term to mean something negative to be unfortunate. To me, whether you think of them as warriors or not, a true social justice agenda in the form of women and/or men working towards economic and social equality for all in a thoughtful, respectful and substantive manner should be a thing to commend rather than vilify. Maybe to some that means I’m a “snowflake (?). To be honest that’s comical to me as well, but that’s ok, I can live with that.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Yes Candace, being called a SJW used to be a good thing…not anymore for good reasons. SJWs don’t tolerate differing opinions or beliefs. If you don’t agree with their specific view on an issue they scream/label you as a bigot, hater, etc. to silence you. All while talking about the need for tolerance. SJWs can’t handle open discussions about issues. They only want their voices heard in a vast echo chamber as we see on these pages frequently. SJWs can’t tolerate free speech, unless it is parroting their views, and advocate for eliminating it, again as we see on these pages.
      You don’t think Sanders and Warren have far left beliefs? By the way, I never called them radicals, I called them far left. I find it interesting that when I bring up the candidates actual platform and plans for the country…it is ignored. Why? I have mentioned Warrens plan for tax payer funded gender reassignment surgery for trans illegal aliens a couple of times now. Not one person has chimed in whether they support it. They much rather shout about Trump 24/7

      • Avatar Candace says:

        Doug, I’m aware of the current attributes attributed to the term SJW. That was my entire point about term meanings changing. I also didn’t start the particular comment you’re referring to by addressing anyone by name. My own personal view on the what’s considered radical was not aimed at you. My own personal reason for not getting in the weeds with you regarding candidates proposed policies is because it mostly feels like a setup for a snarky comeback rather than a genuine interest in others opinions that don’t match yours. That’s just me, others would probably answer your question differently. Oh, and the person I hear shouting 24/7 about Trump is Trump.

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        Doug,

        The objection isn’t to differing opinions but to hate speech of the type Trump is famous for, which has led to a considerable amount of violence and even to multiple murders. Nazis and other white supremacist hate groups (emboldened by Trump) do NOT have the right to scream their violence-inciting garbage in places they aren’t welcomed by the vast majority of citizens. And yes – I would even include Charles Murry in that category, since he has built his career on the claim that white men are intellectually and morally superior to Black men, and to women of all races.

        Trump’s rhetoric and policies are blatantly racist, sexist, and homophobic. He has deliberately caused great harm to countless innocent people (and will cause much more, given the chance) in order to gain the support of the dregs of humanity. There is NOTHING more important than getting him out of the most powerful office in the world, even if it means voting for some well-intentioned Democrat with a utopian vision for America (if it turns out not to be practical or realistic, it will either be abandoned or modified).

        If you continue to be a rabid Trump supporter, don’t be surprised when people identify you with his most obvious “attributes”.

        • Avatar Tim says:

          And that’s why the Democrats will lose. You call hate speech & want to suppress anything that offends you, even when you misinterpret the factually accurate.

          Murray does not say that men are more intelligent than women. Allow me to manslplain: IQ tests are specifically designed to balance the number of verbal & spacial questions so that women and men both average the same: 100. Interestingly, over time men and women are getting better at IQ tests and women are actually improving at a faster rate than men which means modern IQ tests are having to be tweaked to bump up the average man’s scores.

          Where you’ve misinterpreted Murray is that men have greater variation on IQ tests so that while both men & women have an average IQ of 100, men are more likely than women to have an IQ over 120 or under 80. Thus if you have a job largely comprised of people with IQs over 125 (the top 5%), the pool of applicants will have roughly 3 men for every 2 women. At the top 1% – the Mensa threshold – the sex disparity grows to 3 men for every 1 woman.

          Culture may account for all or some of that gap, but it exists (at least at the adult level) I personally cringe whenever I hear an intelligent little girl told “you’re so pretty, the boys are going to really love you” while a comparably intelligent little boy is told “you’re so smart, I bet you’re going to be an architect or…” Do you think that little boy goes on to stare in the mirror for 30+ minutes throughout each day critiquing his appearance and trying to improve it?

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Tim,

            There’s such a wealth of information available debunking Charles Murray’s psuedo-scientific racism that I had a hard time deciding which link to include with this post. Murray advocates the complete elimination of public education, government-supported survival programs, affirmative action, and job traning programs for low-income women because (he claims) nothing can overcome the inate genetic inferiority of those groups. Historical discrimination and lack of opportunity don’t exist in Murray’s world. According to him, white men are in power because they DESERVE that power by virtue of their superior intelligence and morality.

            When I was given intelligence tests in grade school I tested in the top one percentile – far above the vast majority of MALE students. Up to that point I had been basically raised as a boy by my university professor father (with absolutely NO emphasis on looking pretty or being helpless and in need of protection), and was told there was no limit to what I could accomplish. However, as I grew older and societal sexism, discrimination, and lack of opportunity for women kicked in, those test scores began to drop.

            One of my first jobs as an adult was indicative of how neutralized by society women’s abilities were (and still are to a notable extent). I worked as the secretary for the vice-president of a large power and light company. The woman who was the secretary to the president had a business degree from Stanford (where she graduated at the top of her class), and several other impressive academic achievements. However, when she attempted to hang her degree on the wall of her little office she was immediately ordered to take it down because she was more educated and accomplished than the man she worked for (at a tiny fraction of his salary). And of course she actually ran the company, while he played golf and took three-hour lunches.

            https://thehumanist.com/commentary/ring-bell-charles-murray-resurgence-scientific-racism

          • Avatar Tim says:

            It doesn’t sound like you’ve actually read the Bell Curve because you’re regurgitating a bunch of straw men commonly attributed to Murray, but that he never said.

            Where did Murray advocate the complete elimination of public education?

            Where did Murray claim that “nothing can overcome the inate genetic inferiority of those groups?”

            If racial/ethnic discrimination is the sole or main cause of inferior Black & Latino outcomes, as is claimed by the majority of Murray critics, why have Asians and Jews (with their higher average IQs) been so successful in spite of their own discrimination?

          • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

            Patricia, I had to laugh about the secretary who ran the company. At the high schools, in Redding, that I worked at the secretary ran the school while the principal golfed and took three hour lunches. And any proclamations that came out with the principal’s bold signature on it had, in small letters, the initials of the secretary that actually wrote it.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Tim,

            I thought about posting links like SPLC’s, which use quite a few direct quotes from Murray, but I figured you’d find some way to complain about that.

            And your comparison of the histories of Asians and Blacks in this country (and the discrimination they faced) shows how little you know about those histories. Following the laying of railroad ties Asian immigration was basically banned in the U.S. for quite a few years, until 1965, when immigration law changed to allow what were primarily well-off, highly educated professional Asian people into the country. Children from those countries had been spending as much as ten hours a day in school, and were the beneficiaries of a superior education. The vast majority of Asians now in this country are either those people or their decendants.

            Also in the 60’s (during the height of the Black Civil Rights Movement) there was a big mainstream push to portray Asians as the “good” minority (they kept their heads down), with the strong implication that Blacks were the “bad” minority, and overly demanding. Asians were given access to schools that Blacks couldn’t even hope to attend, and a number of other perks. There is absolutely no comparison between the treatment received by the vast majority of Blacks and Asians in the U.S., going back a very long ways.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            I’m not aware of any mainstream push to make Asians the “good” minority – if anything they are the group least likely to be represented in government & media. But I accept the premise that Blacks have historically faced more discrimination than anyone else and therefore had the fewest opportunities to make use of their abilities.

            I do not accept that premise for Latinos, who have not experienced more discrimination than Asians or Jews. So even if societal discrimination played a part in Latino outcomes, it didn’t play a part in their outcomes relative to higher average IQ Jews & Asians.

            Murray doesn’t say that IQ is all or mostly genetics — culture likely plays a large part. But welfare programs don’t address culture and, since the percentage of Black kids in poverty has been bouncing around 40% since before the Great Society, there is at least some evidence to support Murray’s hypothesis that these welfare programs are not actually beneficial to society. That is especially true when you look at the decline in percentage of black owned businesses and rise in single parent households.

            PS: I’m glad you didn’t include a SPLC link. If they were once reasonable & objective, they are no longer. You can read Murray’s fact-check of the SPLC page on him here: https://www.aei.org/society-and-culture/charles-murrays-splc-page-as-edited-by-charles-murray/

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            It’s not a “fact check”. Murray just doubles down on the junk science and misrepresentations in some places, and tells readers they have to buy his books to get his “real” answer in others. I’m beginning to think Murray is what my father called an “educated idiotic” (except that term usually doesn’t apply to people who are deliberately malignant).

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            But Patrecia, does that give those that disagree with Murray to physically attack him? Like what happened at Middlebury College? A female professor, a liberal professor who was going to moderate and was with Murray at the time was hospitalized after being attacked by leftists who wanted to shut down Murray’s speech. That is where the left is these days. Conservatives don’t use the “heckler’s veto”, they allow speakers different political persuasions to speak without interruptions. These thugs are the real fascists.

  96. Avatar Candace says:

    “Good lord people. Get a different hobby than obsessing about a president.” Forgive me Doug but you admonishing others for obsessing about a president? Irony cleanup in aisle “you’ve got to be kidding”.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Candace, One thing I don’t do is obsess about the president as you all do. Sure, I will counter on these pages the crazy over the top hyperbole from the Trump haters out there. And yes, I am a political junkie that follows politics closely, but to focus this inordinate amount of attention on the president and ignoring congress..and ignoring what is going on in our own state, which of course affects us much more than Trump’s policies is all on the left.

  97. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    I have a question for Patrecia and other proud feminists out there. I genuinely want to hear your stance on what I consider is becoming a serious problem. A biological man who identifies as a female won a women’s world championship cycling event in California last week. Shattering women’s world records. In Connecticut 2 trans girls are dominating high school track events. The other girls contend the situation has robbed them of top finishes and possibly college scholarships. These are not isolated events. It is happening everywhere. A trans women again shattered women’s weight lifting records in England.
    I’m truly interested in your take on this. Does a male to female trans person have a right to compete in women’s sporting events, even if it puts them at a distinct advantage?

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      Doug — For the purpose of allowing response to your narrowly-cast question, I’m going to call myself a “proud feminist.”

      I know some feminists who would answer your question from a liberal perspective of inclusiveness: “Of *course* if someone was born a banana slug but wants to identify as a razor clam, we should respect her wishes. Who are we to say….?”

      The more hard-core feminists I know have answered the question directly and unequivocally: “Not only no, but f*** no. If you’re not born an XX, your not a woman—stay off of our lawn. If you want to hold a Trans Olympics, knock yourselves out.

      I side with the über-feminists on this one. If you identify as female and want to reassign using surgery and hormones, go for it. But you’re still an XY, and you don’t get to jump in the octagon and beat the living crap out of XX’s. You don’t even get to jump on the tennis court and do it. (This is starting to be a real USTA issue in places like the Bay Area, where some club tennis teams reportedly have more than one ex-dude.)

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        Thank you for your answer…that’s all I wanted was a simple answer. I know there are a variety of lawsuits in the works dealing with this issue, and with the Olympics coming next year, it definitely needs to be addressed.Although my daughters are definitely not athletes, I can sympathize with those that don’t have a chance to win a sporting event.
        I wonder what do trans athletes get from beating girls? Rachel McKinnon, who is the trans cyclist, who doesn’t take hormones and has been shattering women’s world records, what joy does she get from beating women in cycling? It would be like a 25 year old man playing on little league teams. Sure, he could probably shatter home run records, but so what, you beat kids.

  98. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    I remember a few years back when California held several town hall meetings the entire length of the state to gather input from citizens. Were these meetings about wildfires? No. Were these meetings about water shortage? No. Were these meetings about the homeless? No. These meetings were about a single wolf that had spent all of three days in northern California. If California had spent as much time on real emergencies instead of a never happened wolf invasion things might be different now.

  99. Avatar Candace says:

    Doug, just curious. Why is your question regarding transexuals competing in sports directed at “proud feminists”? To answer your question, I’ve personally not looked into it enough to give you an informed answer.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Because I would think that feminists in particular would have the interest of women and girls in mind. As a dad of two girls, I also have an interest in this topic. I recommend looking into this. There are girls and women all over the country that have no chance in winning their sport’s competition after devoting their life to it. And yes, it will affect scholarships for these girls.

      • Avatar Candace says:

        Doug, ok, but feminism doesn’t include Transgender women as not being thought of as women. At least not my definition of feminism. Still, as I mentioned before, I’m not well informed on this particular topic of competitive sports. For that matter I’m not well informed on the topic of most sports. I just know what I enjoy watching.

        • Avatar Candace says:

          Doug, also, while I understand men say it in what they believe to be a supportive context ( it’s said a lot), I believe one’s personal relationship to a girl or woman should have no bearing as to whether or not one cares about women’s issues, rights, etc. Shouldn’t men just simply care? For example the particular “transgender women in competitive sports” issue you say you’re concerned about remains the same issue regardless of whether or not you have daughters. I’m not judging you, I’m simply offering up some food for thought. I’m sure someone will call me a snowflake or something along those lines. I’m just trying to honestly answer what you said was a genuine question.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            I don’t know Candace. I care very little about sports and even less about women’s sports. But I’m sure I’d care more if my daughters played competitively.

            But from a 1,000 foot view it seems irrational to create two classes of sports based on biological sex differentiation and then allow exceptions based on psychological constructs of gender.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Candace, I believe you are reading too much into a simple question I asked, which is it ok for biological men who identify as a female to compete in women’s sports?I think it should not be allowed and am asking for other opinions. I feel bad for these girls who have devoted their life to being an elite athlete, but see these boys dominate their sport and relegating them to 3rd and 4th place finishes, which can affect schorloships.

  100. Avatar Candace says:

    Bruce, I don’t know about the wolf thing but as far as the other things in your town hall comment it’s a great endorsement for both Elizabeth Betancourt and Audrey Denny.

  101. Avatar Gary Tull says:

    I found this development a bit alarming today-

    Trump has canceled subscriptions to The New York Times and The Washington Post. Officials in the West Wing on Thursday announced that copies of the two papers would no longer be delivered to the White House. The administration is moving to force federal agencies to end their subscriptions, as well.

  102. Avatar Candace says:

    Tim, I agree that if your own daughter’s played competitively you’d probably care more. That’s human nature. My point had more to do with the fact that I hear that sentiment a lot ( Of course I care, I have a daughter, wife, etc.) from men when talking about sexual abuse against women, etc. One may feel stronger empathy because of those close relationships but the fact remains that sexual abuse against women etc. is always wrong no matter what relationships men have with women. Not that Doug or you are talking about sexual abuse, I’m just using it as an example because that’s typically the context I hear it used in. That said, regardless of how they say it, I’m happy to have good guys around.

  103. Avatar Candace says:

    Tim, The problem with 1,000 ft views…

  104. Avatar Beverly Stafford says:

    I just had what I thought was a strange experience. I had left Trader Joe’s parking lot, traveling east on the street between Casa Ramos and what was once Famous Dave’s, and striding toward Hilltop was a completely naked man. I stopped and called 9-1-1. The lady took my info, thanked me for calling, and off I went. A couple of minutes later, my cell phone rang from a Private Caller, and it was RPD. He asked if I was annoyed by the naked man to which I replied in the negative but that I assumed he must have mental issues if he was walking the streets naked. RPD said if I wasn’t annoyed, he couldn’t arrest the perp. I asked if he wanted me to be annoyed, but he said he would just contact someone else. So apparently there had been other callers. I would think that RPD could at least offer a fig leaf to a naked man if he couldn’t be arrested or otherwise detained.

  105. Avatar Candace says:

    Beverly, LOL. I mean, it is a nice day…

  106. Avatar Candace says:

    Doug, could be. If it were that simple of a question why direct it to “proud feminists”? Anyway, you asked, I answered. You aren’t required to agree with my answer or the direction it took.

  107. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    Candace, I directed the question to feminists because I wanted to see where they stand on this issue. There are a number of lawsuits going on right now with biological men competing against women. Are feminists on the side of trans women of biological women on this issue. who do you support? From what I read on this subject, it seems like women’s rights activists are rather quiet about this. I’m just trying to get a feel on feelings on this subject from different perspectives. You don’t have to be a sports fan to see the unfairness of this problem. I guess the fact that with the exception of Tim, you and I are the only one discussing this, although I don’t think you have yet to answer the question, shows that few care about this issue and the women and girls that have to live with it

  108. Avatar Candace says:

    Doug, I did answer your question. I answered that I’ve not educated myself enough on this particular subject to give you an informed answer. I may agree with you and I may not. Things aren’t always black and white. All feminists do not think alike. There are many forms of feminism. People not replying to your question doesn’t translate to them not caring about the subject. I think part of the reason some don’t reply is because they may feel that the intent of your original question was not to genuinely seek other’s opinions but to lambast “feminists” and women’s rights activists who might not agree with your last comment saying the issue you’re talking about is “unfair”. I almost didn’t answer you the first time because I suspected that was the true intent behind your question rather than genuinely simply “seeking other viewpoints from feminists” as you said. Still, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and gave it a shot. Your reply to that was that I didn’t answer you. I did.

  109. Avatar Candace says:

    Doug, also telling about your original question was that you addressed it to “Patrecia and proud feminists”. Anyone who follows ANC commenters for more than a few days knows that you are almost always on polar opposite sides of just about any subject that’s brought up. You go at it with her with a vengeance. So, to me, that comes across as baiting an argument whether you cloak your question in saying you’re seriously looking for different viewpoints than yours or not. Maybe if you’d started with “I think this is totally unfair and I’m concerned about the ramifications for girl’s and women in competitive sports” ( with a blanket invitation to all), folks would be more apt to engage with you. Maybe not. Just a suggestion.

    • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

      I’m not taking the bait on this one. I believe I’ll just let the courts figure it out (if an ethical, unbiased court can still be found, post Trump).

  110. Avatar Candace says:

    Patrecia, wise move.

  111. Avatar Tim says:

    Can a salon offering genital waxing services to women discriminate against men? Transgender women?

    Canada says yes: https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/2019/10/23/transgender-womans-genital-waxing-complaint-rightly-shot-down.html

    • Avatar Tim says:

      And in another display of gender inequality, Major League Baseball has banned 3 women from its parks after they went topless during game 5 of the world series:

      https://www.tmz.com/2019/10/28/julia-rose-lauren-summer-flashed-boobs-world-series-mlb-banned-astros-nationals/

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        Tim, I think you’re going off the deep end. That isn’t an example of “gender inequality”. It’s three women trying to promote their careers by denigrating all women (just as Trump’s trashy wife denigrated all women with her nude porn photos). No woman who respects herself or other women would do something like this.

        • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

          Tim and Patricia, Fort Collins removed their opposition to bare breasted women and now six states, including red state Wyoming, allow women to go topless in public. This was done because a group, Show The Nipple, stated men could do it so women should be allowed to do it.
          That is gender equality.

        • Avatar Candace says:

          Sorry Patrecia, I’m pushing back on this one. You may personally find it objectionable but that shouldn’t translate to shaming other women who do not share your view. Saying that no woman who respects herself or other women would do something like this is not my idea of respecting other women. Body shaming and slut shaming other women by women needs to stop. I’m very happy that many in my daughter’s generation ( she’s 24) have chosen to not continue attaching shame to other women’s choices regarding their bodies and individual choices regarding their own sexuality. Gender equality should extend to women’s bodies. Even Melania Trump.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            It’s my understanding that “body shaming” involves trying to make people ashamed of their weight, shape, or other physical characteristics. I don’t believe it has anything to do with people running around showing off their sexual apparatus in public.

            If men exposed themselves in public I seriously doubt the people who are in favor of women doing it would be nearly as accepting. Men basically have nothing to expose from the waist up – they still look the way we all looked as children. The same can hardly be said for women.

            And where do we draw the line? If it’s now acceptable for women to flaunt their naked breasts in public, why stop there? By the same token shouldn’t it be acceptable for both genders to go completely naked?

            When women like Melania Trump pose for photos for money wearing nothing but a pair of heels and handcuffs, etc., they degrade all women, and perpetuate the harmful view that women are nothing but sex objects.

        • Avatar Tim says:

          Sex is prominent in the human hierarchy of needs and women are usually the ones to decide whether to engage in sex & with whom. This gives women an incredible amount of power which “the patriarchy” has historically chipped away via societal norms idolizing the demure, subservient wife. Such norms sometimes manifest in laws criminalizing women’s expression of individuality & power in public (e.g. requiring women to wear hijabs — or requiring women (only) to wear tops).

          • Avatar Candace says:

            Tim, “Sex is prominent in the human hierarchy of needs and women are usually the ones to decide whether to engage in sex & with whom.” This gives women an incredible amount of power…” Tell that to girls and women who throughout history, have been and continue to be victims of sexual assault perpetrated by men. When you’re telling them that ask them how how powerful they felt while it was happening.

  112. Avatar Chris Solberg says:

    A little boy missing for days now never sees the light of day as far as Redding local news stations go….. its absolutely sickening what local news has become… 4′ 10″ around 100 pounds freshman at Enterprise last seen heading towards wooded area by abortion clinic… PLEASE TAKE A BREATH FOR A MINUTE AND SHARE THIS LINK !

    https://www.facebook.com/wendy.m.ogden.3

  113. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    Doug, you and I have been debating women’s soccer in importance, you say it is not important. Now all of a sudden the subject of women’s sport is all you can talk about. Thank you for conceding the debate to me.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      I don’t have an issue with women’s sports at all. As a matter of fact I am a big LPGA fan, I go to tournaments every year. I rather watch women’s golf than the PGA because they seem to have more fun playing and to me it is more interesting to watch. I think the same about men’s soccer as I do women’s soccer…I think it is a boring sport that does not connect with the average American sports fan. It has nothing to do with the ‘importance’ of the sport. I never said it was not important, I said it is not popular in the US and we only care about it every 4 years when the world cup rolls around. Sorry, no concession here. But at least this comment of yours to me won’t be deleted.

  114. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    Trump is bad…Trump killed Al-Baghdadi..therefore killing Baghdadi was bad according to many on the left. Another reason Democrats will lose in 2020.

    • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

      That’s the most bizarre reasoning I’ve ever heard. And it now appears that the capture was only made possible by the efforts and intelligence of Kurdish forces, which made Trump’s sudden abandonment doubly treacherous. His attempt to take almost complete credit is just another of his endless lies:

      https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/as-kurds-tracked-isis-leader-us-withdrawal-threw-raid-into-turmoil/ar-AAJva3q?ocid=spartandhp

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        Patrecia — I didn’t watch the entire 50-minute press conference, but what I did watch was excruciating. The endless self-aggrandizement is to be expected at this point, I guess…but it was the bizarrely off-kilter stuff that was scary. Dude is nuts.

        Here’s an example…

        “You know, if you read my book, there was a book just before the World Trade Center came down. And I don’t get any credit for this but that’s OK. …I never do. …But here we are. …I wrote a book, a really very successful book and in that book about a year before the World Trade Center was blown up, I said there is somebody named Osama bin Laden, you better kill him or take him out, something to that effect, he’s big trouble.”

        That was quickly fact-checked. It’s not in his book. He pulled it out of his @$$.

        It got even weirder when he expressed wonder and awe that his soldiers blew down the front door instead of knocking like normal people.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      Doug — I would like to know who comprises “many on the left.” Until I see the quotes, I’m calling shit from a bull.

    • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

      According to reports in the Washington Post and NY Times, Al-Baghdadi moved into the capture area only 48 hours before the assault. With permission from Russia, air space, and aid from the Kurds the assault took place. Was the pullout of US troops used as a ploy to give ISIS a relaxing moment that let their guard down and resulted in the success of the raid? I believe so and the US military’s hardest problem was probably keeping Trump silent about this somewhat secret assault. Maybe they locked him in a room with no access to Twitter.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        Interesting ploy theory, but Trump has made it clear that he has no interest in the Arabic Middle East save ensuring the availability of oil. If it was purely a ploy, I’d think we’d soon be moving back into position to protect the Kurds. We’re not.

        A good number of the troops that vacated the buffer zone desired by Turkey are being repositioned in Syria’s oil-producing region. Trump even said during his press conference that our only remaining interest in Syria is their oil.

  115. Avatar Tim says:

    Glad to see folks in Sacramento finally talk about the cost of PG&E’s green mandates. PG&E is spending $2.4 billion/year to comply with the 100% renewable energy by 2045 mandate. That is twice as much as PG&E’s historical net income which means PG&E has been having to make cuts elsewhere (i.e. grid maintenance).

    https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article236739073.html

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      Tim — I’m not intimately familiar with SB 100. Does it really prohibit PG&E from recouping the costs of purchasing alternative energy through fee restructuring, as you claim? They’re eating the entire additional cost?

  116. Avatar Larry Winter says:

    Here’s one take from my northstate Congressman Jared Huffman’s most recent Facebook post concerning the Kinkade Fire in his district.

    “As soon as this firestorm began, I requested official assurances from the Department of Homeland Security that those seeking shelter or services would NOT be subject to immigration enforcement. I received that assurance today, and as much as I mistrust the Trump administration, they have honored these type of assurances in the past and I believe they will do so again here.”

    Here’s an example of a “liberal impeachment advocate” giving the Trump administration it’s due credit.

    For those that do Facebook
    https://www.facebook.com/jared.huffman.9/posts/2193648014074181?__tn__=K-R

  117. Avatar Candace says:

    Patrecia, I agree that the term “body shaming” is typically meant as shaming someone based on their looks but women being shamed for baring their breasts in public is a another form of body shaming. As far as the “where do we draw the line” argument, so far I don’t see men walking around pant less (other than the occasional soul) in public but if they did and women followed suit that would be a debate about the acceptance or non-acceptance of public nudity and agreed upon societal taboos depending on where you live in the world. Women’s breasts develop differently than men’s for obvious reasons. There’s a difference between nudity itself and the sexualization of nudity. In my opinion a woman has the right to pose in the nude wearing only heels and handcuffs for money, if that’s what she, herself, as a consensual adult chooses to do. Using those parameters, her doing so doesn’t degrade women and promote women as being reduced as “only” being sex objects. I think it’s quite the opposite; it puts the power back in her court to decide what she chooses to do with her body/her sexuality/her money, on her terms; not yours and not mine. Degradation happens when someone feels degraded in doing something they don’t want to do and aren’t comfortable with. Slut shaming aims to narrowly define women by their personal sexual preferences and proclivities instead of allowing women to define there own selves using all aspects of their sense of self with sexuality being just one aspect of how they self- identify as whole human beings.

    • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

      She has the “right”, but she’s actually capitalizing on – and encouraging – the basest instincts of men. Pornography apparently factors heavily into the psyches of men who rape, and I can guarantee that the men who create a demand for those photos are thinking of the woman involved as prey, rather than as “powerful”. I’d much prefer that women exercise their power by becoming educated and independent. Girls in this country would be a thousand times better off looking to a Michelle Obama as a role model, as opposed to a Melania Trump.

      I’m frankly horrified by the way many girls and women now dress in public in our society – as though the more skin they show (and the more they give men to leer at) the better. This doesn’t speak well of their level of self-respect.

      • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

        And closer to home I would prefer my granddaughters here in Arizona look to Senator Sinema, who has been called a Barbie doll in hooker boots, for a role model than Kelli Ward who wants to remove evolution from education and believes only Bible charter schools can educate Arizona youth.

  118. Avatar Candace says:

    Patrecia, I respectfully disagree. I too would prefer to hold up
    Michelle Obama rather than Melania Trump as a role model for a myriad of reasons but those reasons don’t include Melania posing nude. Women can be, and are, both independent
    and intelligent while at the same time expressing their sexuality how they choose; each of these things need not be separate from one another. While you and I may not, there are millions of respectful women and men that look at porn that don’t sexually assault women after doing so. The idea that “women are asking for it” because of how they dress and how much skin they show only serves to perpetuate the dangerous idea that because some men can’t control their sexual urges the onus lies with the woman if she’s assaulted because of how she was dressed. I know many young women who’s self respect is fully intact and not compromised by or attached to how they choose to dress. I don’t care if a woman stands naked in the middle of the street, how a woman dresses, should never be an excuse for a man ( base instinct or not) to sexually assault her. Never. The “she’s asking for it by how she dresses and has no self-respect” narrative is nothing new, men have thrown that out as an excuse forever. Women perpetuating that conversation is very disappointing to me. Sex in itself is not shameful and neither are women’s bodies. Most civilized human beings don’t act on their base urges that would harm another human being unless it’s to protect themselves. When a man sexually assaults a woman the blame lies squarely with him and no one else. The woman is still the victim. The idea that her manner of dress factored into it as an excuse for the assault is just that, an excuse for abominable behavior.

    • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

      That’s not what I actually said. Rape is about power and control, and not about how women dress, or men’s “sexual urges”. There are many rape victims who dressing modestly hasn’t spared. However, why give these criminals further “justification” (at least in their own diseased minds) by running around in public topless for no good reason?

      And while it’s probably true that most men who view porn don’t become rapists, by all accounts virtually every rapist is obsessed with porn, and the degrading Melania Trump-type bondage porn feeds their obsession.

      I guess I’m just old-fashioned, but I believe that sex is a private matter. I also believe that very few women would be comfortable appearing in public with their breasts or other private parts exposed. The argument that men can get away with not wearing shirts so women should too (which I’m sure many men would be in favor of) robs women of their differences, and – frankly – their dignity.

  119. Avatar Candace says:

    Patrecia, guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree. Thanks for the conversation and Happy Halloween!

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *