Open Conversation for September 2019

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440 Responses

  1. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    Sessions is gone. Ryan is gone. Pence looks to be next to be gone. The Dominists are falling like dominos. Heck, my daughter may have a new boss before the year is out.
    I only post because Open was open.
    For you still stuck in old ways don’t forget to change your clocks soon. Here in Ultra Right Wing Arizona we don’t have Daylight Savings Time.

    • Avatar Beverly Stafford says:

      Why on earth doesn’t every state follow Arizona and Hawaii and stop this nonsense? Better yet, why doesn’t the do-nothing Congress abolish it?

      • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

        DST is a state issue, not Congress. Several states have talked about it but to really move it forward one of the big states needs to do it and others will follow. Washington and Oregon should join Arizona and Hawaii, Nevada doesn’t need it because everybody is in a climate controlled casino.

      • Avatar Tim says:

        Northeast Arizona observes daylight savings time.

        • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

          Northeast Arizona is Tribal land and more in line with New Mexico. There is a disputed movement to allow Arizona Tribal students to attend school in New Mexico because it is closer.

    • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

      Bruce,

      There are no plans that I’m aware of to oust ultra-Dominionists Mike Pence or William Barr. Neither do I see other God-in-government Dominionist extremists like Besty Devos, Rick Perry, Ben Carson, Mike Pompeo, Roger Severino, Jerry Falwell Jr. and many more of their kind in the highest levels of government going anywhere.

      And I’m still trying to adjust to the absence of Daylight Savings Time. The only non-positive I can find is that it’s hard to keep up with where we are in relation to the rest of the country. I believe we’re about to go into the 6 months of the year when we’re an hour later than PST, and two hours later (instead of three) behind EST. I wish the rest of the country would jump on the bandwagon, which makes much better sense.

  2. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    Patricia, there seems to be an ongoing discord between Trump and Pence and I, my opinion, think there will be a split up. And with Trump raging on like an idiot, I think others will be following some that already left.
    And we are actually an hour ahead of PST as my computer is still on Wyoming time.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      I believe Trump will dump Pence and recruit Nikki Haley as VP. Which would set her up for a 2024 presidential run.

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        Per the link below, Nikki Haley favors “God in the public sphere”, and is strongly opposed to gay marriage, abortion, and any type of gun control. She also doesn’t believe that anything should be done to level the field for women and minorities. Not much of a change from all the other God-in-government ultra-right-wingers Trump has handed our federal government to.

        However, it wouldn’t surprise me if Trump chose her as his running mate in an attempt to court the women’s vote. Republicans are so clueless that they think women in general will vote for just any woman, no matter how anti-women’s rights she may be.

        I’m a firm believer that no REAL woman votes Republican. She may be anatomically female, but she’s actually just an apologist for the patriarchy, a promoter of corporate interests over the interests of the average American, an enemy of single/divorced mothers, and someone who doesn’t give a ****about what happens to children after they are born.

        https://www.ontheissues.org/Nikki_Haley.htm#Welfare_+_Poverty

        • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

          My wife is registered Republican, my daughter is registered Republican. I’m a firm believer that anyone who calls a woman less woman because of how she votes is sick in the head and needs mental help.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Well, then. I know this from personal experience: If you post something like the line that offended Bruce, you had best have your body armor and sunglasses on, because the explosion is going to be percussive and bright.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            I don’t think I’m the one who is “sick” when you consider that women who vote for rabidly sexist politicians like Trump, LaMalfa, and Dahle (whose policies and attitudes aren’t really all that different than most Republicans, when you think about it) are voting against their own interests, and the interests of women in general. That’s tantamount to a Black person voting for the leader of the KKK (which would make them a traitor to their race).

            I’ve run across quite a few women who were died-in-the-wool Republicans until they were abandoned or divorced, and became the sole support of their families. Then all this nonsense about voting to exalt the interests of the white men they thought would be around forever went right out the window (I used to be one).

          • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

            Steve, we may be polar opposites on some subjects but we don’t resort to name calling.

          • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

            Patricia, I am sorry you went through a divorce. I don’t know how that feels as I have been married to my Republican wife from ultra right Trinity County for almost fifty years.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Bruce,

            I don’t know what “name-calling” you’re referring to – aside from you calling me “sick in the head”.

            And half the people in the country have been divorced, including a considerable number of Republicans. In fact, the deep south (a Republican stronghold) has the highest rates of divorce in the U.S.

          • Barbara Rice Barbara Rice says:

            Suggestion: step away from each other.

            Just because someone comments doesn’t mean you have to respond.

  3. Avatar Tim says:

    While we live in a district whose representatives almost always vote in lockstep with the Republican party, statewide the opposite is true: Democrats are generally much less likely to cross the isle than Republicans. This article helps explain why:

    https://calmatters.org/politics/2019/09/california-legislators-political-spectrum-maps-charts-data/

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      I got from the article the reasons why representatives generally follow the directions of party leaders even if their votes then stray from their own and constituents’ points of view.

      What I didn’t take away is why one party (is it whatever party is in power?) are more lock-step than the other party. Is that explained, and I’m just missing it?

      • Avatar Tim says:

        They briefly addressed that: The party in power is responsible for doling out power, prestige, & privilege in Sacramento. Someone who bucks the trend won’t be assigned the best offices, committees, etc.

        The party out of power is more free to compromise (or to avoid “missing” an unpopular vote) with the limit being the rabidity of their primary voters. California Republican primary voters have generally not punished compromising incumbents, with the notable exception of the tea party revolt of 2008-2012.

  4. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    I just returned from Epworth United Church on 59th Avenue in Phoenix for the St. Marys Food Bank Pantry distribution. I don’t see a lot of homeless out here in the West Valley but the closer one gets to downtown Phoenix they are hard to miss. Some sleep in the churchyard while others wheel in shopping carts. They lined the sidewalk, about fifty, and they all as far as I could tell spoke Spanish. St. Marys doesn’t require any ID, just sign in and get your free food.
    Even with multiple homeless shelters, both church and secular, the homeless count, according to AZ Central went up 27% last year. A lot of that can be due to the migrants, legal and illegal, crossing the border. Southwest Key, which had all its detention centers closed, is now getting approval to reopen. They can be expected to be flooded with the same locals posting on their cell phones any transgressions. Core Civic which operates detention centers in southern California is in talks with Evanston, Wyoming to open a detention center. Evanston a rural area that lost it’s main source of income, coal/gas, welcomes Core Civic and the jobs they will bring.
    In many areas ICE is putting migrants up in hotels. In California there are millions available to house the homeless. Nimbyism is pushing those homeless funds out. I have seen many suggestions on here to turn Stillwater into a homeless center. There is money available just apply for it.

  5. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    I find it interesting, Patrecia that you believe women and minorities should only vote or have the same views. If a black person is a Republican…he/ she is a traitor to his race. Same with women. How dangerous is it to expect people of a group to think the same. I have been debating you for years now. Your over the top hyperbole is getting unbelievably even more hyperbolic.
    Trump is coming to the end of his first term. He hasn’t started WWIII like you predicted. He hasn’t done anything Hitler-esque. He hasn’t done anything Dictatorist. Your constant screed about the evils of the GOP just wears me out. Nikki Haley was a great governor, with a 70% approval rate., And she would make a fine president.

    • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

      I consider making it standard practice to tear children of all ages away from their asylum-seeking families and imprisoning them in overcrowded facilities in terrible conditions (then “losing” thousands of them) “Hitler-esque”.

      Of course we now know that many of those stolen children are winding up in “Christian” foster care and adoption agencies with connections to Trump’s Education Secretary Betsy Devos, and that charge the taxpayers $700.00 a night to house them. These people are evil to the core.

      Trump has also backed and enabled “Christian” adoption agencies to discriminate against well-qualified lesbian and gay couples, and basically any other group they don’t like – all while getting government funding. But then Trump has openly incited hatred and violence toward groups that aren’t white, straight, Christian, and (in some cases) male. Another “Hitler-esque” tactic.

      Fascism and fundamentalist religion go hand-in-hand. Trump has placed flaming God-in-government religious fanatics in charge of the highest levels of government, and surrounded himself with worst-of-the-worst Dominionists (including at least one close cohort of Bethel’s Bill Johnson) to advise him on domestic and foreign policy.

      Then there’s his backing and creation of laws that force girls and women who are pregnant (under any circumstances, and for any reason) to endure 9 months of sickness, pain, and disability to risk their lives in childbirth (14 times more deadly than legal abortion), followed by the hardest decision of their lives. Either way lives are ruined, and children are forced into existence only to suffer.

      I’m not going to make excuses for women who turn on their own gender, and aid the fascist take-over of our country.

      https://www.snopes.com/news/2018/06/26/bethany-christian-services-family-separation-betsy-devos/

  6. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    Who do you trust? NOAA supports President Trump’s Alabama claim about Dorian.
    For the naysayers, I lived in tornado country for a dozen years and went through several tornado warnings and sirens. Most never happened and there were always “google: experts that would lambast officials for warning about a tornado that never happened. You can’t wait until a tornado is actually upon you to sound a warning.

    • Avatar Candace C says:

      Trump’s a trainwreck. He’s willfully ignorant; woefully lacking in self-retrospection; and morally bankrupt. Dangerous combination. This President of our United States is a common thug with no conscience. Doesn’t make for a comforting bedtime story. Sharpie or no Sharpie, vote him out.
      #trainwrecktrump

      • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

        Candace, I along with another ex-Redding are in Arizona where Our votes for president matter. The 1st District in California will vote for Trump which is meaningless because California will vote for the Democrat, whoever that may be.

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        The best way to beat Trump is find a candidate that could beat him. A candidate that middle America can support. So far, the Democrats have done a horrible job with that. Joe Biden will not get the nomination, every one else is so out there on the far left that it is a definite possibility that someone like Warren could lose 40+ states.

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          Regarding Warren: That’s what they said about Obama.

          Also, to claim that all but Biden are clumped around Uncle Bernie on the far, far left is absurd. Not quite Trumpian in breathtaking absurdity and falsehood, but still absurd. Hell, an audience of blue collar-types at a Fox News town hall gave Mayor Pete a standing ovation at the end, and Kamala is a former prosecutor.

        • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

          Joe Biden, despite all the negative rhetoric aimed at him from other Democrats and Trump, will get the nomination. One of the other two score candidates needs to get over their egos and support him and Biden needs to choose his vice nominee. The real question should be who would be the best vep, and it needs to be someone younger, who could step in.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Biden was horrible at running for president when he was in his prime, and he is horrible at it now. He did a terrible job in the debates and it is evident that senility is creeping in. Remember the left going berserk over Ronald Reagan and his age when he ran? Biden would enter office the same age that Reagan left office.
            With that being said…I can actually make a case for voting for Biden. He would be a seat filler one term president, a Warren Harding if you will. He wouldn’t accomplish much. He would allow the left to get over their damaging Trump Derangement Syndrome, even allow poor RBG to retire, and after 4 years of a senile president. It would set up the GOP to sweep in 2024, with what I predict will be a Nikki Haley run.
            When the left talks about impeachment, 25th amendment and all the over the top rhetoric we hear from those like Patrecia. It is handing the election over to Trump. Pelosi knows that, that is why she is attempting to shut them up. Sorry folks, Russian collusion didn’t work out for you…time to move on.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Bruce sez, “… and it (VP) needs to be someone younger, who could step in.”
            In other words, our candidate is so old…we don’t know if he could last 4 years. Wow…that exudes confidence

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Doug,

            When thousands of mental health professionals all over the country felt compelled to warn the public about Trump’s obvious derangement, lack of conscience, and unfitness for office, I think it’s safe to say it’s not just the imagination of people like myself.

            And while Biden could do a better job of remembering names and places, at least he isn’t a record-breaking pathological liar like Trump. He also isn’t inciting his followers to commit violence, as Trump did throughout his campaign and presidency (not that Democrats are anything like the gun-worshipping, white supremacist thugs that make up Trump’s base anyway).

            Speaking of which – the only drawback to not re-electing Trump is that he is already inciting his followers to violence if he’s ousted. If they committed multiple murders and thousands of assaults and acts of harassment and intimidation to celebrate his election, just think what they’ll do when he loses. We’ll need the military, national guard, and every police force in the country to try and keep the mass murders to a minimum. It won’t be safe for any darker-skinned person, non-Christian, or even women to leave their homes.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            I think it’s also worth mentioning here that hate crimes have surged 17 percent under Trump (the highest rates since immediately after the 9/11 attack in 2001), obviously due to his hate-mongering and open incitements to violence:

            https://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2018/11/fbi-reports-17-percent-spike-in-u-s-hate-crimes-under-trump-admin-highest-since-9-11/

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Bruce…the other thing to consider if Biden gets the nomination. What would that do for voter turnout on the Democratic side. Do you believe that the young voters will come out to vote for an 80 year old white guy? They will stay home in droves.

  7. Avatar Common Sense says:

    The Impeachment Show is just about to start. The next year should be a good one for T.V ratings on the Major Networks. We should hear the Screaming- it’s all a Witch Hunt amp up to full Volume and along with those that don’t quite understand what is happening, more moaning about “No Collusion” still!

    If the Dems play it right exposing the “Entire host of crimes and Criminal Actions” should about do it. If they blow it, he might actually get elected again!

    Let’s just call it the way it is. We have a Compromised President. One who is Obviously more concerned about himself and making money versus doing what is right for this Country! As a Malignant Narcissist, he can’t help it! But having a Personality Disorder is not going to keep him out of Jail whenever that day comes that he is no longer in the Position!

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      On what charges do you want to charges to impeach the president on? How did that Russian collusion work out for you?

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        Wow..that was an odd sentence. Sorry, long day. You know what I meant

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        We don’t need to look any further than the 25th Amendment. The Electoral College failed in the one thing it’s good for by not keeping someone who is clearly mentally and morally unfit from taking office to begin with.

        Entire national psychiatric associations (and many other individual mental health professionals) warned us before the election that Trump is dangerously deranged and conscience-less, based on his gazillion demented tweets and other statements that were completely divorced from reality and morality.

        And of course we don’t know what other crimes he may be guilty of, since the Mueller Report didn’t actually clear him of collusion, and implicated him in several other possible crimes. We know that Trump is up to his eye-teeth in hock to Russian investors. However, as long as he’s allowed to keep his tax returns hidden, we won’t know to what extent he is benefitting from whatever conflicts of interest exist.

      • Avatar Common Sense says:

        The whole working for Russia thing is not working out too well for any American at this point! The President is working with and or for Russia. Read the Muller Report if you want to see the 5 Obstruction Charges he will be hit with for starters…..and we are just getting warmed up. Will they Impeach him? Not a snowballs chance with the GOP Senate but that is not the plan. The plan is to Expose Everything. Collusion is not a legal term. Treason is though.So are the Emoluments Violations and the term Crimes against the United States of America.

        So why would the White house want Russian to be involved and Supervise the Talks with the Taliban? Answer that one for me.

        https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1170513749100437504

      • Avatar Common Sense says:

        Intelligence Community has know for quite some time that he is compromised!

        https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/09/09/robert-baer-russia-us-spy-extracted-bts-nr-vpx.cnn

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          By the way CS…you may want to recheck that story from CNN you linked. The report, according to the NY Times and CIA is totally false. The decision to pull the agent was made late in 2016, weeks before Trump took office. So in the last couple of weeks we had MSNBC put out a false report about Russian loans to Trump by Lawrence O’Donnell, to which he had to apologize for…and this story that proved to be false by CNN…and you call Fox fake news.

      • Avatar Common Sense says:

        The Emoluments Violations are just one part of many that will be brought to the surface for the average bear to see.

        https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-emoluments/us-appeals-court-says-trump-cannot-dodge-foreign-corruption-lawsuit-idUSKCN1VY1J3

      • Avatar Common Sense says:

        What charges? You might want to talk with the Manhattan D.A on that one. He has a Grand Jury in place to show them the Criminal Charges that have taken place and to get the Orange Guys tax returns!

        Let us all remember….you can’t Pardon “State” Charges! Will they Indict him “While” he is still in office should be the real question here not IF they will. He is going to Jail when his time is up. He can’t pardon himself and Billy the Barr can’t save that Bacon.

        New York Attorney General Tish James is not letting him off.

  8. Avatar Candace C says:

    #introspection

  9. Avatar Candace C says:

    *introspection

  10. Avatar Candace C says:

    I’m hoping Biden is not the Democratic nominee. I think if Trump is once again elected we’ll see AOC elected in 2024. Younger people (and many of us older folks) are totally disillusioned with moderate “business as usual”. Ironically the same moderate and conservative folks who voted for Trump used the same reasoning; no more “business as usual”, “drain the swamp…” It’s obviously not business as usual with #trainwrecktrump but his cow towing republican administration is swampier than ever. Pendulums tend to make mighty swings during extreme social turmoil. My personal definition of an extremist would be #trainwrecktrump; as in extremely unfit to be president of anything, let alone the USA. I suppose like most anything the definition of “extremism” is in the eye of the beholder.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      AOC elected in 2024?? You can’t be serious, Candace…can you? It is my prediction that she will lose her next Congressional election. She is an embarrassment to the Democrat party…as is the other members of the ‘squad’. Maybe in 2021 when I go to NY, I’ll find out what bar she is working at and stop in for a drink.

      • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

        Doug, AOC elected in 2020? Embarrassment to the DNC?
        No different than Trump elected in 2016? An embarrassment to the GOP?

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          As long as the economy keeps humming, he continues with the pull out in Afghanistan. Consumer confidence keeps growing, wages keep growing, unemployment at record levels ( black unemployment is now at a record of 5%). I can live with some of the dumb things he does.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            The country is credibly facing a recession, and it appears the average American is no longer buying into the “great economy” fairy tale Trump is still pushing. Farmers, small business owners, and some notable percentage of factory workers (among others) have suffered under Trump’s nutty nationalistic trade wars and other policies.

            Unemployment (including Black unemployment) has been dropping steadily since Obama first took office, and forward progress in several areas has actually dropped under Trump. And according to several major polls, most Americans who believe the economy is even “somewhat good” no longer think that Trump is responsible.

  11. Avatar Candace C says:

    Doug. Yes. I’m serious; it’s a prediction, same as you making a different prediction. The only thing that embarrasses me about “the squad” is the hate directed at them by some of my fellow Americans. My guess is if you stopped in for a drink at any bar she worked at she’d serve you a drink instead of the disdain you’re serving her.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      I have no disdain for AOC whatsoever. I admire her for running for Congress and wish more like her would run. My problem with her is simply she is way too far left for most Americans.

  12. Avatar Candace C says:

    Doug, also, starting a question to someone with “You can’t be serious?” doesn’t jibe with your often touted “why can’t people have differences of opinion without being disrespected on this site?”

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      I respect your opinion, I just find it incredulous that anyone thinks that she can be a credible presidential candidate.

  13. Avatar Candace C says:

    Also, to clarify my original post I’m not hoping Trump is re-elected in 2020; I’m just not much of a Biden fan.

  14. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    And the New York Jets may be calling Carli Lloyd for their soon to be open placekicker spot.

  15. Avatar Candace C says:

    Patrecia, while I typically agree with most of your positions I think pushing the narrative of more extreme violence if Trump is not re -elected falls right into some of the MSM’s river of consciousness that only serves to feed that sort of violent extremism in some people. I’m not saying I don’t people are capable of such violence; I just think pushing it as an inevitability is also dangerous.

  16. Avatar Candace C says:

    Doug, “…She is an embarrassment to the Democrat party…as is the other members of the ‘squad’. Maybe in 2021 when I go to NY, I’ll find out what bar she is working at and stop in for a drink.” Apparently it’s different for you but that’s not how I typically talk about people I “admire” .

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      I can admire someone and not agree with anything they believe in. I admire Mayor Pete but disagree with him on almost all his stances. Let’s be real, AOC garners a lot of attention not because of her views…but because she is young and attractive. Nobody really cares what a freshman representative from some far left district thinks.

      • Avatar Candace C says:

        Doug, wow. Misogynist much? You’re smart enough to know exactly the reaction you’ll get when you say things like that. Mission accomplisThe credibility of your claim of “admiration” just flew right out the window. hed. The credibility of your claim of “admiration” just flew right out the window.

        • Avatar Candace C says:

          Not agreeing with someone is quite different from calling them an embarrassment. That’s not a show of admiration; that’s ridicule. Two different things.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          I’m not a misogynist…I am a rabidly heterosexual male. I don’t admire AOC because she is hot, I said she gets more media attention because she is hot. If a doughy white male with the same views won her district, do you think he would get the same attention? Of course not. The reason I admire her is the grass roots campaign she put together that beat a long time incumbent. I wish we had more like her…just with policies that make sense.

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        Doug,

        So you think that the only reason to pay attention to a woman is if she’s “young and attractive”?

        You really put your foot in it with that remark.

        • Avatar Tim says:

          Nothing in Doug’s statement was sexist, taking it as such is totally on you. Frankly it applies to men as well: if Barack Obama was not young and attractive, no one would have paid much attention to him in 2007 (or JFK in 1959).

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          Patrecia, that is not what I said at all. Why did you put words in my mouth? I said the reason the media gives AOC the attention she gets is because she is young and attractive. There were 89 new Representatives sworn in this year. How many of them get on the news everyday?Why does AOC get all the attention from the media? Yep… because she is a hottie.

    • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

      Candace,

      I’d like to think that if no one on the left mentions the strong possibility that the country is in for much greater violence than we’ve already seen from Trump supporters if he loses, that it won’t happen.

      However, I believe it might be better to sound the alarm, so that people in law enforcement and heads of agencies can prepare to some extent (that is, assuming they’ve missed all the calls for violence from Trump and many of his high-profile supporters).

      • Avatar Tim says:

        I don’t understand Democrats who are able to foresee a politically violent future yet still see no justification for the civilian ownership of military firearms. They must be very privileged to place that much trust in law enforcement under such conditions.

        • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

          The only civilians who own (or even WANT to own) military-grade assault weapons are the very people who have been – and will be – committing the violence.

          Very few progressives are interested in having weapons that have no purpose other than to slaughter a hundred human beings in seconds laying around their homes.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            There are approximately 3 million AR-15 type assault rifles owned in the US. So you are saying that all 3 million owners of these rifles want and will commit violence with them? More over the top hyperbole from Patrecia.
            You constantly say that only a small percentage of abortions are late term, so there is no need for legislation to ban them… isn’t it the same here? A minuscule percent of these rifles are used to commit violence…using your logic, than there is no need to ban them.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            Assault rifles are *not* meant for killing a hundred human beings within seconds. If that is your goal, an assault rifle is a very poor choice of weapon. Bombs, fire, chemicals, etc are much better suited to the task. In fact, the american “obsession” with guns can therefore be said to save lives since those intent on mass carnage so often picking weapons poorly suited to their ends. Just imagine the death toll if the Vegas shooter had loaded his private plane with nasty chemicals and flown it into the route 66 festival — thank god he wasted $90,000 on a bunch of semiautomatic rifles with bump stocks!

            The assault rifle is meant to precisely place projectiles – killing specific targets (as opposed to indiscriminate killing). Its higher capacity allows the weapon to also be used to suppressive purposes: laying down cover fire long enough for you and yours to move away from a disadvantageous position.

            The AR15 specifically is also cheap to buy and operate, which makes it a fanstic training gun. And its light recoil makes it a surprisingly good choice for new shooters of petite stature. It is a very democratic gun!

            PS: When you pat yourself on the back for all the lives gun control has saved, do you include the disarmed people killed by genocides throughout history? In more recent memory, do you include the Branch Dividians killed by ATF? How about the lives lost in the Oklahoma City bombing? Gun control lead to those events – it stands to reason that further gun control will lead to more deaths like them.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Doug Cook,

            Of course I said no such thing. They are the element who commit the violence. And since there is no effective way of determining beforehand who will become a mass shooter (most don’t have a criminal history, or a verifiable history of mental illness), it might just be that allowing the general population to amass arsenals of weapons of mass destruction is not such a good idea.

            And there is certainly no comparison between the one percent of abortions that are late-term abortions (often involving WANTED babies, and which are unavoidable due to a medical crisis), and the mass slaughter of REAL, thinking, feeling, full-fledged human beings.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Tim,

            I can’t believe that you’re saying “Thank God” for the massive slaughter in Las Vegas, just because it might have been worse if the perpetrator had used a bomb!

          • Avatar Tim says:

            Perhaps the reason you can’t believe it is because I didn’t say it.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Gun control led to the OKlahoma City bombing?

            :::boggle:::

          • Avatar Tim says:

            No boggle about it, McVeigh was quite clearly motivated by the Government’s antigun excesses at Ruby Ridge & Waco.

            https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gtJrT5iwwtM

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            How incredible that there are actually people who make excuses for mass-murdering monsters like Timothy McVeigh.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Tim — The problem I have with “lead (sic) to” is semantic. You imply too much in the way of causality. Gun control didn’t lead Timothy McVeigh to commit mass murder. That POS decided to commit an atrocity of his own volition.

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          McVeigh’s motives are not causal—the ATF’s actions did not “lead to” anything. The ATF RE-acted excessively at both Waco and Ruby Ridge, but they were attempting to stem illegal firearms dealing in both cases.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            There was no “history” of illegal firearms dealing at Ruby Ridge. Randy Weaver was associating with a white separatist organization and the Feds wanted an inside informant so they paid the unwitting Weaver (a sometimes handyman) to shorten the barrel of a shotgun 1/2″ more than legally permissible. Weaver refused to be an informant and demanded a trial – one in which he would ultimately be found not guilty. In the interim, the courts changed his court date without informing the off-grid Weaver. When he missed the changed court date, the FBI & Marshalls initiated that fatal “shoot first” raid.

            If the alleged illegal firearms actually existed at Waco (none were ever found in the rubble), they would have been legal 5 years prior. Waco’s raid was an enforcement action of a then-new & victimless gun control law.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Weaver may have been innocent of the charges he faced, and the shootout at Ruby Ridge was a huge cluster-f*** — but again, that was not the proximate cause of Timothy McVeigh’s murder of 168 people, including 19 kids. McVeigh decided on his own to do that.

            And besides, McVeigh was far more influenced by Waco, where a big issue was that the leader of the Branch Davidians was a kiddy fiddler. The first cause in the causal chain of the raid on their compound was Waco’s daily newspaper publishing a series called “The Sinful Messiah,” which detailed David Koresh committing statutory rape and polygamy.

            I actually agreed with McVeigh that federal, state and local governments using tools of war against citizens is fascistic, akin to the Chinese government sending tanks and soldiers to Tiananmen Square. But addressing that by blowing up an office building filled with innocent people was an act of supreme evil and cowardice.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            The surveillance and planning of the Waco raid predated the “Sinful Messiah” series – the ATF even tried to delay its publication. Since Koresh married the girls (with their parent’s consent), he had not even committed statutory rape. Had Waco actually been about the welfare of its inhabitants, it obviously would have been handled a lot differently by the tank-driving incendiary-flinging authorities.

            Without FOPA, Ruby Ridge, Waco, & the AWB, McVeigh would not have attacked the federal building in OKC. On this, proponents of radical new gun control should expect history to repeat.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Tim,

            All of your Breitbart-like conspiracy theories aside – sick, deluded “parents” had no moral or legal right to give that pedophile permission to make sex slave of children. There was also no “marriage”, since polygamy is illegal.

            And as Steve pointed out, there is NO excuse for blowing up buildings filled with innocent people (including children), no matter how much these monsters object to addressing the greatest health and safety hazard this country faces.

            Thousands of people are killed and maimed every year by guns, and we can no longer leave our homes without risking being slaughtered by some fanatic with a military-style arsenal. Your paranoia doesn’t even BEGIN to justify that.

  17. Avatar Candace C says:

    Patrecia , left or right or in the middle, pretty hard to miss unless one refuses to “see”.

  18. Avatar Candace C says:

    Steve, I’m pretty sure you and I share the same version of hell as far as not having access to an edit function. I recall Doni mentioning that if we really want something cleaned up we can contact Joe, etc. I just figure it’s not important enough to bug them about. Thank goodness that most folks posting are pretty forgiving as to errors and understand what the person meant to say.

    • Avatar Linda Cooper says:

      Candace C – I share the same version of hell as you and Steve. His reference to spell check as spell changer is priceless. It takes me twice as long to compose on my email, because I have to clean up the “provided” spelling. Perhaps there is a Zen lesson here for me. Be mindful of what I verbally say as well, because that can never be taken back either.

  19. Avatar Candace C says:

    Doug, before I sign off I wish to apologize for calling you a misogynist. I don’t know you. That’s how your post came across to me. Women who are young and “pretty” are also capable of being smart, savvy and worth listening to; as in the case of AOC. Quite obviously I’m not alone in my thinking.

  20. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    Thank you for that. I am definitely not a misogynist. I proudly raised two wonderful independent daughters. I believe in my post I mentioned that AOC is absolutely a smart and capable young woman. She certainly is. I also think she got a little too big for her britches as a freshman representative. One thing you don’t want to do is piss off Nancy Pelosi.

    • Avatar Candace C says:

      Doug, I didn’t see in your original post where you mentioned those attributes regarding AOC but I’m happy you added them as I too believe she is a smart and capable woman.

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        Doug Cook is a rabid Trump defender, who has just dismissed Trump’s admission that he sexually assaulted countless women, and the accusations of all the women who finally had the courage to come forward following that admission. Those were far from being the only misogynistic remarks he’s made.

  21. Avatar Tim says:

    73% of College Republicans have hidden their political views in fear of unfair grading:
    https://www.thecollegefix.com/poll-73-percent-of-republican-students-have-withheld-political-views-in-class-for-fear-their-grades-would-suffer/

    I remember doing so way back when – I can only imagine how bad it is now.

    • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

      Tim,

      Your source for this so-called “poll” of Republican students, The College Fix, is an ultra-right-wing propaganda machine which promotes views like the one below. The author equates rape and violent sexual assault with playing “spin the bottle”, and claims it should be a prerequisite for holding public office:

      https://mitchell-langbert.blogspot.com/2018/09/kavanaugh.html

      • Avatar Tim says:

        If you had bothered to read the article you linked, you would have noticed it was clearly presented as satire.

        And when it comes to propaganda machines, I can think of none better than the US higher education system: https://patcrosscartoons.com/2019/08/29/indoctrination/

        • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

          Yeah, I noted his cowardly attempt to distance himself from his fanatically sexist, harmful opinions by calling it “satire”. However, it fits right in with most everything else on The College Fix website. Rape and sexual assault are not a joke.

    • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

      Tim, right here in Phoenix high school students have been forced to leave class for showing Trump favorable items on American History Day. Apparently only certain history can be shown.

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        Bruce,

        I could find no such incident in Phoenix. However, a group of students wearing Trump clothing and carrying a Trump flag in Gilbert, Arizona on “U.S.A. Spirit Day” were asked to leave campus after disruptive behavior at lunch time and after school, in which they called other students derogatory names while chanting “Trump, Trump, Trump”:

        https://www.azfamily.com/news/political-firestorm-ignites-after-students-wear-pro-trump-gear-to/article_61369f0c-3e3e-11e9-8eef-07b9bd2c33cf.html

        • Avatar Tim says:

          You can find plenty of MAGA hat incidents here: https://www.breitbart.com/tag/maga-hat/

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            I can’t believe that anyone still takes Breitbart seriously.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Breitbart? LOL

          • Avatar Tim says:

            It is a convenient aggregator of MAGA hat news. You can search for alternate sources for individual incidents. Some examples:

            Littlestown, Pennsylvania
            Fresno, California
            Epping, New Hampshire
            Spokane, Washington
            Anderson, California
            Martin County, Florida
            Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan

        • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

          Patricia, you and I see that incident different. The students, all six of them, were expressing their 1st Amendment rights quietly. The school started the disruption by telling the students to remove the Trump items. If the school had told Muslim students they couldn’t wear hijabs or burkas it would create the same firestorm. As in other instances, on left or right issues, the school storyline changes depending on the parent complaints.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            However much ultra-right-wingers might worship Trump, it’s still not a religion.

            And since the Trump-supporting students were being abusive and disruptive during lunch hour and after school, your version of the story (which I can’t find confirmation for anywhere) is doubtful.

          • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

            AOL.COM, Legalinsurrection.com. Americanlookout,com, TheBlaze.com, Briebart and AZ Family nightly news also showed differences of opinion. Opinions differ and I will not respond anymore to a vortex of negativity where only certain “facts” are allowed.

        • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

          Patricia, you can comment on Phoenix News Times using Facebook. Interesting comments on Allen, from the appropriately named Snowflake. Home of Kelli Ward’s failed charter school. I wouldn’t be surprised if Betsy Devos had a cabin there. I have driven through that town a few times coming to Phoenix from Wyoming.

  22. Avatar Common Sense says:

    The Emoluments Violations alone should be enough to finish him off, without even a discussion into the whole Russian Fiasco! Wetting his beak from the Taxpayers full cup!

    https://www.salon.com/2019/09/09/were-starting-to-see-the-scale-of-trumps-personal-corruption-and-its-massive/

  23. Avatar Candace C says:

    Trump’s a wonderful, empathetic man who loves, respects and reveres women, people of color and the LGBTQ+ communities. So what if he “fibs” now and then or acts a bit “rapey”; he keeps the economy humming! He’s been chosen by God to take our country back to greatness! Morals be damned! All All hail Trump! Buy hats! It’s the American way!

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Candace, I don’t look to my president for moral leadership or empathy. I want him to lead the country. Democrats didn’t seem to mind Clinton’s lack of morality and long as he was in their side. So far..the country is in pretty good shape. It would get even better if Congress actually does something now they are back other than the ridiculous impeachment folly. Do you think Congress will tackle immigration? Nope.

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        Your claims about Trump’s “great economy” have been debunked. We are not only likely to be heading into a recession, but you might want to ask farmers, many small business owners, and a whole slew of workers in various industries how Trump’s nutty trade wars and other policies are working out for them. And I’m sure American consumers will appreciate the much higher prices they’ll be paying for thousands of goods and services.

      • Avatar Candace C says:

        Doug, a leader who is seemingly incapable and unapologetically bereft of empathy for large swaths of their fellow countrymen and women is what some in America would recognize as a common personality trait of a dictator; or at the very least, a wannabe dictator. If you’re ok with that (and you say you are) by all means buy the hat! Dictators love taking your money to use for their own personal gain.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          Give me one example of Trump trying to be a dictator. I have no idea what that means…’ wannabe dictator’. While you’re at it. What swaths of Americans does he not have empathy for? What money has he taken from me for his personal gain?

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Doug Cook,

            That’s too easy:

            1. Trump regularly attempts to deny access to the media, and to journalists who portray him in an accurate light (who report on what he actually says and does), while giving preferential treatment to far-right-wing outlets that promote his provably false propaganda. He even labeled the mainstream media “an enemy of the people” (in classic dictator fashion).

            2. He demonizes federal law enforcement agencies and officials (ie: the FBI) who aren’t willing to legitimize his lies and self-serving conspiracy theories, and cover up his unethical – and potentially illegal – behavior.

            3. He goes to great lengths to hide his financial records and business dealings (although we now know that he has abused his position as President for personal financial gain in more than one way).

            4. His slavish adoration of brutal dictators.

            5. He openly incites fear, rage, and violence against marginalized groups who don’t typically support him (another classic act of a dictator).

            6. He publicly supports white supremacists/nationalists.

            7. He has basically turned the operation of federal agencies and commissions over to fanatical religious fundamentalists (a prerequisite to fascism).

            8. He rules by presidential fiat (ie: desimating the EPA, the free speech-violating gag rule, etc. etc.)

            9. He has attempted (and succeeded to some extent) in single-handedly initiating religious and racial tests for entry into the U.S.

            10. He openly encourages his base to commit violence if he isn’t re-elected.

            I know there’s more, but that seems like enough.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Gee Patrecia…I had no idea, we need to get rid of this guy. I’m all in now with Marianne Williamson for president. Thanks for reasoned and unbiased information.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Well…he’s repeatedly made “cracks” about doing away with the 22nd Amendment… and hasn’t ever mentioned the prolonged constitutional process for doing so.

            Maybe he’s kidding. But a paranoid guy could conclude that he’s testing the waters to see if his most rabid followers would back a revocation of the 22nd by presidential fiat.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Doug,

            That’s the response I would expect from someone who can’t refute any of the FACTS I posted.

          • Avatar Common Sense says:

            Taxpayers out another $150 Million. His plan to trade a favor
            ( dig up or make up a fake story on Biden and Son to help me win the 2020 Election) for a little MOOLA didn’t materialize. So Far no one wants to talk about the $150M?Or show the Whistle Blower Allegation?

            https://www.inquisitr.com/5646504/140-million-ukraine-trump-administration-after-phone-call/

  24. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Why people on each side of the fence think the “other folks” are crazy!

    Steve brought up the Dunning Kruger Effect so this all makes sense now.

    https://medium.com/the-politicalists/the-17-cognitive-biases-that-explain-brexit-894ec10e03b8

  25. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    And from Snowflake, gotta love that name, GOP capital of Arizona and the last known sightings of the Tucson murderers on the FBI’s most wanted list, there will be no GOP Presidential primary in Arizona. Now Trump’s election war chest can save more money while the two score Dems spend all their money.
    And now Kelli “chemtrail” Ward can concentrate on muckraking Mark Kelly who already leads in the polls over McSally. The battle for control of the Senate will be right here in Arizona.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Bruce…I see you are still going with the Kelli Ward is a chemtrail nut after I refuted that claim.
      “…In June 2014, Ward invited constituents of her state Senate district to a small, informational seminar on chemtrails by two Arizona Department of Environmental Quality staffers in Kingman, Ariz. Some audience members then provided testimony and asked questions of the staffers and Ward.

      “The town hall was conducted in response to constituent concerns, and experts were brought in to directly refute those concerns,” Ward’s spokeswoman Jennifer Lawrence said.

      The same as the Shasta County Board of Supervisors did a few years ago. Did that make them all Chemtrail conspiracy nuts? No…it means they listened to some of their constituents and put the subject on the agenda.
      https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/aug/25/senate-leadership-fund/no-kelli-ward-isnt-chemtrails-conspiracy-theorist/

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        I guess the question remains: Should elected officials pander to constituents who put forth crackpot anti-science and conspiracy theories? Does providing them with a forum offer them some measure of the legitimacy they seek?

        In my opinion, they deserve nothing more than to be ignored. Through that lens, both Ward and our Shasta County BOS screwed up and deserve criticism for treating chemtrail yahoos as having concerns that deserve a hearing, thus elevating their stature (even if that’s not the intent).

        Other crackpot ideas for Ward the BOS to consider:

        1. Vaccines cause autism
        2. The Earth is flat
        3. Darwin recanted on his deathbed
        4. AGW is a hoax involving the coordinated efforts of tens of thousands of scientists
        5. Paul is dead

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          I wouldn’t have pandered to them either. But the point I was making was, just because she had a meeting about chemtrails doesn’t make he a conspiracy but. As stated, she brought in experts to refute the claims

        • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

          The party led by Kelli chemtrail Ward is in big trouble. Three GOP legislators made browning of America comments. One GOP legislator wants trucks to stay in right hand lanes because he hates slowing down behind them on a hill. One south state GOP legislator was clocked at 120 MPH on the freeway. He defended himself by saying it was his constitutional right to break the speed laws while legislation is in session. A Glendale GOP legislator, who owns a business wanted to make the Arizona minimum wage law $8.00 for students to create more jobs. Every single hospitality business has help wanted signs and are paying starting at $11.50. Sheriff Joe is seeking reelection and wants to bring back tent prisons and his private sheriff posses.
          The 2018 election showed it was not the “browning” of America but the emergence of young voters. Despite the election mishaps last year young people stood in long lines to vote. Polls stayed open late because they told these young voters that the polls would not close until the lines were gone.
          The biggest problem McSally has is how to separate herself from this crackpot GOP party led by Kelli “Chemtrail” Ward.

      • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

        Doug, Ward has continually said she didn’t make that statement but regardless of your concern her nickname includes chemtrails which she will always be called. Go sue if you don’t like it.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          I couldn’t care less about your Arizona politicians. I are about your false statements. In your comment about her last week, you made the claim that she supports chemtrail theories. That is not true. What is your goal in spreading fake news?

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          I care about honesty…and making false claims

          • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

            The general consensus here in Arizona, not a thousand miles away in Redding, is that Kelli Ward is a nut case who believes in chem trails, the Earth is 6,000 year old, that there is a browning of America led by an invasion of rapists, murderers and drug dealers across the border. Her claims that she should have been appointed a replacement over John McCain because he was mentally unfit put her squarely in the nut case box. And as far as chemtrails she said it was her constituents that wanted it brought up is fake news, it was her that wanted to bring it up.

          • Avatar Jimmy Wilson says:

            If you care about honesty, and making false claims, how can you support Donal Trump? The guy has lied repeatedly to the American people. All his life really. His business ventures. But as long as the economy is okay, fine by you.

  26. Avatar Candace C says:

    Patrecia, yep, all that and more. I find it pointless to answer those types of questions when I know the person asking already knows what the answers will be. The intent of the questions aren’t to garner answers; your answers were not well-guarded secrets that no one has thought of until now. If the intent was to seriously seek another’s opinions the response to your answers wouldn’t have been such as it was; said with ridicule and disdain.

    • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

      Candace,

      I agree. However, I have a problem with letting lies, misinformation, and misdirection stand unchallenged in a public forum.

      I know that Doug will never abandon his rabid defense of Trump. My post was for the benefit of anyone else reading these comments who might be on the fence, and who could be tempted to believe his excuse-making and deviations from the truth.

      • Avatar Candace C says:

        Patrecia, I get ya. I have to say that the thought of anybody still being on the fence regarding Trump is pretty incredulous to me at this point. If one hasn’t jumped to one side or the other regarding Trump by now I have no earthly idea as to what it would take to spur that jump.

  27. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    Well, waddaya know. Orange Mussolini finally did something with which I agree wholeheartedly, without reservation. Buh bye, John “But I wanted to make mushroom clouds!” Bolton. Don’t let the door, etc.

    Still, Commander Shinsplints is now looking for his 5th National Security Adviser in 2 years, which doesn’t really engender a sense of national security. More like chaos.

    Also, firing a guy on Twitter is one “President Pussy Ass Bitch” move, as Chrissy Teigen would put it.

  28. Avatar Candace C says:

    Steve, I’m glad Bolton is gone too. Good riddance.

  29. Avatar Candace C says:

    *as well (ugh) Anyway, I’m glad.

  30. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    Candace..yes you can be on the fence with Trump. I did not vote for the man, I wish he wasn’t our president ( but am relieved it is not Clinton). And am mostly dissapointed with his presidency. With that being said I can acknowledge the good that this administration has done. The reason I come across as a defender of Trump is because I feel the need to counter the way over the top hyperbole coming from the left. Look at Patrecia’s comments as good examples. Over 90% of MSM stories about the administration are negative. Trump has implemented plenty of policies or actions that normally would please the left. But they always come up with nefarious reasons to explain why it was a bad decision. For example him stopping the attack on Iran. Obama would have been praised for his reasoned response. Trump was criticized.
    I made the case the other day where I might vote for Biden if he is our choice. If it is someone like Warren or Sanders…I will vote for 4 more years of Trump. The left gets so wrapped up in their hatred for the man that they can’t see the forest for the trees.

  31. Avatar Candace C says:

    Doug, I think you can rest assured that there are more people than just you who defend Trump. How ‘bout Tucker Carlson, Limbaugh, Hannity, etc.? Do you not think their mostly pro-anything Trump rhetoric is over the top? Granted they’re not news anchors; they’re entertainers; but the reality is they have huge followings which include the practice of promoting “libtard” rhetoric. Do you also feel the need to get on their FB pages and school them as to their over- the-top rhetoric? I’m happy that so far Trump hasn’t pushed the “war to end the world”button but his nationalist-bent (non)foreign policy with our allies and others certainly gives me no comfort. I’m also happy Bolton is gone. I still think Trump is awful and dangerous and for the life of me I don’t understand why you choose to frequently visit a site where you seem to pretty much disagree with most everyone. You say your aim is to “temper” and “balance” but to me it comes across as button-pushing and adversarial. I wouldn’t think to continually go on far right-wing sites where I knew I vehemently disagreed with their major tenants and proceed to constantly ridicule and poke at them ( like the women’s soccer stuff). Seems pointless and crazy-making. I’ll be very honest. I was born and raised here and have been feeling like I’m drowning in a red sea of rabid Hannity and Limbaugh right-wing conservatism. When I discovered ANC I felt like I’d happened upon a welcoming island of like-minded, intelligent and thoughtful people. I’m not inferring that you’re not intelligent or thoughtful and I’m not saying I don’t think you should be welcome here, I’m just saying that for me, ANC is a welcome respite.

  32. Avatar Candace C says:

    Doug, I should add that I don’t always agree with what’s published on ANC or the comments some of the author’s make; but boy howdy do I appreciate the willingness to “go there”. Agree or disagree with their content or varied journalistic styles, that’s more than I can say as to what’s typically offered as far as other local news sources available in Shasta County.

  33. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    I would never visit a site that does not want a diversity of opinion, I don’t watch Hannity or listen to Rush. I do, however watch Tucker almost daily. And he does in fact criticize the president frequently.
    For me…I would find it very boring to be on a site that just spouts one political view.
    I do in fact interact with far right individuals on other venues and will criticize their over the top rhetoric as well, which there is plenty. I was a political science major and spent my years in college doing exactly this… trying to debate the issues with those that disagree with me.
    Look…it is my belief that you need both liberalism and conservativism to make the country successful. We need both to balance them. One party government is dangerous.. California is a good example. So don’t be dismissive of the Republican party. I have voted for many Democrats because I thought they were the best person for the job.
    Trump hasn’t started WWIII yet…but what had he done for you to think he will? So far he had been much more isolationist than Obama was. Trump had shown more restraint in the use of the military than his predecessor. It was a head scratcher why Trump appointed Bolton in the first place as they have opposite views of US intervention. Yes, I’m glad he is gone too. Here is what I like about Trump. We have been in Afghanistan for 18 years… Americans stopped paying attention to the war years ago, while soldiers keep dying. People are now talking about the war. And I believe Trump will get out of it. Same as immigration… Congress had ignored this crisis for decades. Now it is front and center. Will Congress act? We’ll see…not confident

  34. Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

    Doug,

    Trump INCREASED the number of troops in Afghanistan by 50 percent shortly after taking office. Now he claims he’ll bring half of them home before the 2020 election as a campaign gimmick.

    And you’ve been a rabid Trump defender ever since he first began campaigning for president. You have also admitted that you agree with most of his policies, so you obviously don’t endorse Democrats equally.

    In fact, I don’t remember you ever defending Obama in the RS comment section when all the local right-wingers attacked him, his wife, and his children with worst-of-the-worst racist garbage and wild conspiracy theories.

    https://www.newsweek.com/trumps-afghanistan-troop-surge-complete-raising-total-number-us-servicemen-714588

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Sorry Patrecia…wrong again. I vehemently campaigned against Trump from the beginning. I was a Rubio man. I was constantly writing that Trump had no chance. So no…you are wrong. Yes Trump increased troops in Afghanistan by 4,000 from about 10,000 when he took office. What you overlook is these troops were training troops working with the Afghanistan military. My comment had nothing to do with troop size, it was my prediction that Trump will finally end the war. I never said I endorse the Democrats equally, where did you get that idea from?

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        Doug,

        This is the first time I’ve ever heard you mention Rubio. And no – you never “vehemently campaigned against Trump” (far from it). You may have predicted at some point that Trump was unlikely to win. However, that doesn’t change the fact that you’ve rabidly defended and made excuses for Trump ever since he first came on the political scene.

        Also, Rubio is just another religious right-backed, God-in-government fanatic who praised – and was endorsed by – the most extreme elements of the Christian Dominionist movement. In fact Rubio was heavily involved with extremists who promote virtual slavery and physical “bondage” for non-Christians, the execution of homosexuals, adulterers, disobedient children, and a whole slew of other groups based on brutal Old Testament law, and who claim there is no such thing as the separation of church and state.

        https://www.huffpost.com/entry/marco-rubio-david-barton_b_7070914

  35. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    They may not be talking about troops in the sand boxes in Redding, but I guarantee you they are talking about the troops in Wyoming, Colorado and Arizona. Of course those areas see deployments all the time.
    And today I will be heading to my granddaughters school for a memorial to 9/11 where we will be washing fire trucks, in this heat I suspect my granddaughters will want to wash me, and taking pictures of first responders, which I will post on Facebook. What are you doing? Debating?

    • Avatar Linda Cooper says:

      Well, Bruce, since you asked. No, I’m not debating right now. I’ve been sending money to (especially) the feet on the ground folks who are registering people to vote in the swing states. Just saying.

  36. Avatar Candace C says:

    While I find it admirable to honor our first responders, I say volunteer somewhere or don’t. How people choose to memorialize 9/11 is their own personal business and shouldn’t be a one-upmanship competition.

  37. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    On Senator Sinema’s Facebook she is honoring 9/11 first responders and some of the comments show there are a lot of nuts on the left too.

    • Avatar Larry Winter says:

      Most comments on her facebook page seems to be dealing with conspiracy theories. The left doesn’t own 9/11 conspiracy theories. It goes beyond left/right.

  38. Avatar Common Sense says:

    I am not sure what is worse….a President that doesn’t understand debt and how government works or the fact he has zero compassion or Empathy for anyone and only really cares about himself.

    You can’t refinance yourself out of debt Mr President! How them Tax cuts working?? That extra Trillion in National Debt now…….Hello

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trumps-wacky-plan-for-the-federal-debt-181649828.html

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Interesting how the left become deficit Hawks when there is a republican in office. Are you questioning the Democrat candidates on how they will pay for all the goodies they want to implement?

      • Avatar Common Sense says:

        I question them Both! I am an NPP voter. They are both corrupt in my opinion and we need term limits or at least jackets worn with “Sponsorship Patches” on them to see Who is buying them off!

        You can’t live in a $2 M home and drive a Ferrari on a $185k a year salary……

  39. Avatar Common Sense says:

    A day in History tomorrow 9-12-19. The Impeachment process “Officially” starts.The next year with Televised Hearings exposing the crimes. It’s a Death by a Thousand Cuts hour. The base will be doubling down on the Crazy Left out to get their leader.

    If his approval ratings and polls show he doesn’t stand a snowballs chance the Republicans will be in a though situation since they are Married to him…..do we cut our loses and throw him Overboard on the Trumptanic or do we go down with the ship trying to re arrange deck chairs as the ship takes on water?

    Not a whole lot will get done on either side with the amount of attention that his will take.

    Re stock your popcorn and drinks….it’s going to be a long year ahead!

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      “…A day in History tomorrow 9-12-19. The Impeachment process “Officially” starts.

      A day in history 9-12-19…the day the Democrats lost the White House and Congress for 2020

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        It may not result in an impeachment due to lack of cooperation from Republicans, but Democrats may actually benefits by calling attention to Trump’s obvious efforts to obstruct justice, his many conflicts of interest (which he’s done everything possible to hide from the public, but they’ve been leaking out anyway), his open endorsement of Nazis/white supremacists and incitements to violence, and his obvious derangement.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          Patrecia, The Republicans tried to use Clinton’s lies about the Lewinsky scandal to bury his presidency. The result was a disaster for them as the impeachment proceedings only raised Clinton’s favorability rating. After the senate failed to convict and remove Clinton, the Democrats took a firm hold of Washington for several years. As I predicted, the Russian collusion charge was a big nothingburger. The Russian loans you raved on and on about proved to be another MSM false news that they had to apologize for. . Impeachment hearings will only do what happened to Clinton. raise Trump’s approval rating. Here’s a better idea, try to find a candidate that could best him in 2020…so far you aren’t having much luck.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Doug,

            According to Mueller (who fell down on the job by not following through), Trump wasn’t actually cleared of Russian collusion. There is also a wealth of evidence that he attempted to obstruct justice, and has multiple conflicts of interest.

            As to Clinton – I believe there is a vast difference between lying to cover up an affair, and all the much more serious things that Trump has done (see my earlier post).

            And the Russian loans were admitted to by members of Trump’s immediate family, and have otherwise been proven. What you are trying to twist into something more than it is was a particular jumping-the-gun claim that in no way detracts from the reality of those loans.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        You say what it takes to get noticed in the primaries. Voters don’t hold you to it. Trump said during the GOP primaries that he was going to balance the budget. Find me a Republican who’s angry that he was lying through his fangs.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          There is a difference between campaign promises and fire beliefs. The nonsense that the Democrats are spouting in the debates are going to make excellent GOP campaign ads. President Trump had been very successful in fulfilling his campaign promises.

  40. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    In 2020 the Democrats actually don’t have to win back the Senate. With at least two Republicans, Romney and Collins and others could step up, that are not exactly friendly with Trump the Democrats could control both the Senate and the House. But, if a Democrat wins the White House will those same Republicans support the Democrats.
    Yes, grab some popcorn the show is only starting.

  41. Avatar Common Sense says:

    The President is in the Shaft the GOP mode right now. By not sharing any polling data with Fellow Republicans its sink or swim this time around!

    The Donald Trump 2020 campaign is planning to prevent Republican candidates running in down ticket races from accessing the Trump campaign’s internal polling data by region.

    So much for team work! Of course a Malignant Narcissist knows nothing of team work.

    Will they throw him overboard when the water gets too deep in the Trumptanic? Time will tell.

    Meanwhile the polls show that Biden still leads but he is old school…..and I am not a big fan!

    The Dem’s need someone more progressive and that has a LOT More energy to move forward in my Opinion. Riding the Obama Coat tails isn’t what the Country needs. New thoughts….new policies….a Country that works for Everyone….that’s what is needed!

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Interesting dichotomy CS…In a previous reply to me, you stated that both parties don’t understand debt and how government works which implies to me that you are concerned about our ballooning deficit and debt. But here you are wanting a ‘more progressive’ president and a Democrat Congress and Senate. I think we can both agree that both Warren and Sanders want to vastly expand government spending…from universal health care, student loan forgiveness, a $16 trillion climate change proposal…and on and on. How do you reconcile that? And don’t say tax the rich.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        The difference is that the Democrats are more mindful of increasing revenues to pay for their programs, whereas the Republicans have zero interest in reducing spending to pay for their tax cuts and military spending.

        And the data gathering and analyses of the Congressional Budget Office, going back to Reagan, absolutely back that up.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          Steve…how much more in taxes are you willing to pay the government to pay for the Democrat candidates free stuff they are pushing?

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            If we switched to Medicare for All, we’d all save shit-ton of money. We twice the yearly cost to the average of European for middling health care.

            The only thing standing in the way of halving our cost in exchange for better healthcare is “only me, screw you” conservatives.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Doug,

            The only difference between a Democrat and a Republican is what they want to spend money on. Republicans want to provide the wealthy/corporate heads with all kinds of give-aways and tax breaks, and to promote corporate imperialism and to protect corporate interests abroad (military spending). Then of course there is Trump’s pointless $26 Billion border wall (or is it more? I’ve lost track of the escalating estimates).

            On the other hand, Democrats want to spend it to meet basic needs of the actual citizens (medical care, education, housing, etc.) , like every other developed country.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          C’mon Steve, you can’t actually believe that a government run program would be cheaper. Why do you think Medicare for all will provide better health care? Are me and other veterans receiving quality health care from the VA? You know the answer, don’t you. The plan also assumes that health providers will be reimbursed at Medicare rates, about 40% below what they receive from private insurers. It is private insurers that reimburse more than 100% of the cost to make up for Medicare’s limited rate. That 40% less reimbursement rate will force the closing of many hospitals.
          From the Foundation for Economic Education, “…the American people would never accept a $32 trillion tax increase, even in return for “free” health care. Single-payer health care is most persuasive when framed with the vague “if Canada and Europe can, why can’t we?” rationale. Never mind that taxes in those places are much higher, and that their single-payer systems are less expensive than an American system would be because: A) Our proposals are substantially more generous; B) Our population is less healthy; and C) America decided decades ago to invest more heavily in expensive technology, roomy hospitals, and pharmaceutical research—and maintaining this larger infrastructure costs money.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Every country in Northern and Western Europe provides better healthcare across a wide array of metrics, including patient satisfaction, at about half the cost per person. Not to mention many non-European countries. So yes, I think if we adopted someone else’s government-run system tomorrow, we’d be better off.

      • Avatar Common Sense says:

        https://bipartisanpolicy.org/report/deficit-tracker

        Republicans are Fiscally Responsible! It just happens to be in years with a Democratic President.

        I don’t agree with forgiving student debt or Universal Health Care. But when my premium went from $586 a month to $981 shortly after the Orange Guy took office and talked about gutting the ACA….that didn’t work well either!

        We either get a handle on the Federal Spending or our Grand Kids ( if they are still alive with climate change) won’t have to worry about having kids.

        You can’t cut taxes and not balloon the debt up without cutting SPENDING.Regardless of PARTY.

        Term Limits! 2 Terms max!

  42. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    So Trump is banning favored vaping because, tragically, six people have died.

    How many have died because they were shot while working?
    Shot while shopping?
    Shot at concerts?
    Shot in theaters?
    Shot at festivals?
    Shot in their cars?
    Shot at churches?
    Shot in nightclubs?
    SHOT IN SCHOOLS?

    Follow me?

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      :::facepalm:::

      *flavored* vaping

    • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

      Steve, I don’t follow you. Should we wait until vaping has killed hundreds to ban it? They did that with tobacco, DDT and that didn’t work out.
      This is Trump phobia at it’s worse, he does something that everybody agrees on and there are those against it because of Trump. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        I think the point is: Where’s the perspective? Why not ban assault-style weapons or cigarettes?

        Not everyone agrees on this ban. A lot of people who have used vaping to get off cigarettes think it’s bullshit.

  43. Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

    Bruce,

    Steve is right. If the government is going to ban things that are harmful to the public, let’s start with guns. Everything else is a distant second.

    • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

      Banning guns will never happen. Banning vaping is possible but like gun laws will still not end the problem. Like the Drug problem banning has never worked.
      Trump phobia. The Tucson murder suspects were captured west of Snowflake. As I watched the video on the news I saw the man, a murder suspect on the FBI’s most wanted list, emerge from the house threatening law enforcement and he was taken down with bean bags and several LE. In contrast I remember a video, during the Obama years where a man, suspected of taking over a federal park, emerged from his car threatening LE and was shot dead.
      Looks like the Obama, shot to kill, policy has turned into Trump’s show restraint policy.

    • Avatar Tim says:

      Molon labe

  44. Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

    Good news for California renters. Landlords can now only evict tenants for “cause” (failure to pay rent, criminal activity, etc.). They can no longer just hand existing tenants a 30-day notice with no reason given. This should put a halt to all the greedy local landlords who throw out their existing tenants so they can rent to crowds of Bethel students.

    They can also now only raise the rents 5 percent a year, after inflation.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/california-pass-rent-control-bill-to-address-affordable-housing-crisis-2019-9?fbclid=IwAR1thdLW0FtkhTYH8wY8oNU6nFejt5xa9Q0RRL00xcyWEXnHkffJNNnhmQw

    • Avatar Tim says:

      Tell my tenants it is good news. I had not raised the rent on existing tenants in over 10 years, yet I just sent out notices that their rents are going up the maximum 9% (5% + 4% NorCal 2019 inflation) and for them to now expect annual increases of at least 5%. The lowest rent had been $450/month for a guy there 15 years who always pays on time and who maintains a nice tidy garden in front of his place.
      The market rate for his studio is around $600, but I’m now retroactively rent controlled at a $450 basis meaning it’ll take me 6 years just to catch up to *today’s* market rate. Guess whose duplex is no longer getting new paint, a refinished parking lot, and new ADA-compliant showers? No good deed goes unpunished, right?

      There is a reason corporate landlords like the Apartment Owners Association supported this bill – they do a much better job than mom & pop’s of raising rents each year. For the next 11 years, mom & pops will be at a huge disadvantage and will likely stop investing in new rentals and begin selling existing units. That is what happened in San Francisco and New York – two places that have conclusively proved rent control decreases the supply of affordable housing.

      San Francisco’s unsuccessful policies have now been mandated statewide – against the will of the voters. Yep, that’s cause for celebration!

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        Tim, anyone that has taken Econ 101 in high school or college knows that rent control will reduce the supply. Most economists agree that setting a price ceiling on housing reduces the housing supply in a market. With maximum prices set, there is less incentive to repair and rent spaces or to build new rental property.
        It is the short term thinking of those like Patrecia that makes these laws pass…like the law about mandatory solar energy on new constructions. So in a state that is facing a major housing crisis because of the millions of Bethel students in the state…the fools in the legislature comes up with laws that will further reduce the housing supply as Tim said…against the will of the people.

        • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

          Doug,

          I don’t know if they’ve changed over the years, but the original SF rent control laws were a joke, since they weren’t accompanied by the stipulation in this new law that landlords couldn’t just throw existing tenants out with no reason given. They may have been limited in how much they could raise the rents on existing tenants, but nothing prevented them from tossing out existing tenants, then raising the rent through the roof for new tenants.

          Also, there has been very little new construction going on in California, even without this new law. Low-income housing (the greatest need) is financed through government and private agency grants. Trump and his cohorts are slashing away at federal housing funds, which will do more to exacerbate the homeless crisis than this new law.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Patrecia, the housing crisis in California of course predated the Trump administration…why do you always default to ‘it’s Trump’s fault’? Are you blaming President Obama or the California legislature too? Of course not. Why aren’t homes being built in California? High building fees, NIMBYism, Environmental regulations and studies that can delay a project for 2-5 years. Look no further than our corrupt state legislature for the housing crisis. California has a supermajority…but 9 different housing bills have failed in Ca…including one that two-thirds of California voters supported, Senate Bill 50, which would have increased building heights around transit and would have created more housing. But the bill was shelved. The only bill that passed was the rent control, which we know actually reduces housing supply. So no…don’t blame this on Trump.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Doug,

            Trump’s actions and proposals will force millions more families into homelessness, and keep many others on the streets. Half of housing assistance recipients already work, another one-fourth are certifiably disabled (although only 13 percent are disabled adults with no children), and the remaining one-fourth are elderly.

            https://www.thenation.com/article/how-trump-plans-to-evict-poor-families-from-public-housing/

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Patrecia…your biased year old scary headline article does not coincide with the budget reality. The funding bill that President Trump signed into law increased most of the substantial funding budget for HUD. According to the “Center on Budget and Policy Priorities:, “…Overall, the bill provides $53.8 billion for HUD programs, a $1 billion (nearly 2 percent) increase over the 2018 funding level. It provides enough funding, $20.3 billion, to renew all housing vouchers that low-income families are now using. The bill also creates an innovative new mobility demonstration that will enable housing agencies to provide robust support for low-income families with children seeking to use their vouchers to move to neighborhoods with quality schools and other opportunities. In addition, it funds about 19,000 new vouchers for low-income people with disabilities, homeless veterans, and families with children to enable them to afford a decent, stable place to live.” So no…Trump signed into a law a bill that INCREASED this budget. Those are the facts that actually happened…not a scare tactic from a year ago speculating what the president may do.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Doug,

            You haven’t been keeping up (see the recent article below). Trump is once again pushing massive cuts to HUD that are even more Draconian.

            He might have caved on the last budget in response to Republican pressure, in the hopes that it would improve their chances in the mid-terms. Fortunately it didn’t work. They lost an entire branch of government, and at least a half-dozen governorships that have been historically red for many years.

            https://www.curbed.com/2019/3/11/18260492/trump-2020-budget-proposal-cuts-hud-dot

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        Tim,

        Your comment is just one long temper tantrum. If you haven’t raised the rents on your tenants in 15 years, why the rush to do it now? And your statement that there will be no ADA-compliant showers is childish and tacky.

        Also, unless something changed at the last minute, new construction and structures that are less than 10 years old will be exempt, so it won’t affect new construction for at least 10 years.

        And how much more than 5 percent beyond inflation did you plan on raising the rents on your existing tenants every year, who you claim you haven’t raised rents for in 15 years? As far as I’m aware, you can set the price of vacant rentals wherever you want them. However (per this new law) you just can’t evict existing tenants for no good reason to create a vacancy.

        • Avatar Tim says:

          The rush to do so now is because I am now legally limited in how much I can raise rents and I’m already behind. Before if I needed to raise rents, I could do so instantly. Now it’ll take me 6 years just to catch up. If that doesn’t make sense to you, consider that I bought low-return rental real estate as a hedge against inflation. I saw firsthand how runaway government spending led to rampant postwar inflation (not 5% — we’re talking 18+%) that ruined many comfortable retirements in the 1970s. We’re probably poised to see a repeat sometime in the decade to come.

          And pulling my planned voluntary upgrades & large capital expenditures is not a temper tantrum – it is a rational business reaction to a jurisdiction that has become hostile to real estate investment. Why risk more money for improvements that no longer pay off.

          My longterm tenant who requested the walk-in shower has gone from being a positive asset to me into a liability. Instead of wanting to keep them around, now I don’t mind if they leave and allow me to reset rents higher. Such are the consequences of the ignorant democratic masses effectively trying to confiscate private property.

          • Avatar Candace C says:

            “My longterm tenant who requested the walk-in shower has gone from being a positive asset to me into a liability. Instead of wanting to keep them around, now I don’t mind if they leave and allow me to reset rents higher.” Glad I’m not one of your long-term tenants. “Now you don’t mind..” That’s harsh.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Tim,

            Your comment is still a temper tantrum, and still makes no sense.

            Had you planned to suddenly raise rents on your existing tenants by some vast amount? If so that would have been possible prior to this new law, which doesn’t make it right. If you have vacancies, you can still set the rents at whatever amount you choose. However, what you can no longer do is to suddenly send rents through the roof with almost no warning (which you seem to be implying you would do), just because the worsening local housing shortage would support that form of extortion.

            In addition, as far a I can determine new construction is exempt from this new law, as is housing that is less than 10 years old, so it will have no effect on new housing for at least 10 years. That gives people contructing/purchasing new or fairly new rentals plenty of time to charge exobitant rents, and wildly increase those rents year after year for an entire decade (as a good chunck of California landlords have been doing for the past 40 years).

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Candace, you should read all of Tim’s comments on his tenants. I don’t want to speak for him but it is obvious he cares for his tenants. It is the state government that decided to limit what he can collect in rent. This is his business…he is in this business to make money, not to be a charity.

  45. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    Bragging rights to show that there is something happening that doesn’t include Trump or Bethel.
    A month ago my granddaughter’s Cheer team went to Orlando and won the National Cheer title.
    My Son-in-law and my daughter in Cheyenne have been competing in Dock Diving and now Ron and his dog Jaeger have qualified for Big Air and Iron Dog Championships. Tanya and her dog Reka have qualified for Big Air Championship. Not bad for an Anderson High School graduate.

  46. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    So…how many of y’all hung in and watched the 3 hour debate? I tried, but lasted about 30 minutes. Went Kayaking instead.

  47. Avatar Candace C says:

    I watched it all. Nice to stay informed on where the candidates stand.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      I am normally eager to watch presidential debates, and had my drinks and snacks ready to go. To tell you the truth… Sander’s gurgling and phlegmy voice just drove me away. I know…that is shallow of me, but really, try a Throat lozenge. From what I saw, and I went back and looked at highlights, if you can call it that. My takeaway is that if I was a Democrat, I would be very nervous right now about your ability to beat Trump.

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        And I can’t stand listening to Trump’s whiney hate-mongering and incitements to violence. Trump hasn’t delivered on his promises, his so-called “great economy” is going down the tubes (which was just a normal cycle that began in Obama’s term, and has actually slowed under Trump), entire large groups of working people are suffering due to his nutty trade wars and other policies, and American consumers are already beginning to see prices rise.

        The only members of his support base (not a majority) who are still whole-heartedly on his bandwagon are rabid white supremacists and fanatical religious extremists, who know that no other president will enable them to violate the civil rights of women, gays, non-Christians, etc. under the guise of “religious freedom”.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          “…The only members of his support base… on his bandwagon are rabid white supremacists and fanatical religious extremists”

          The leftist’s hero George Soros came out this week praising Trump’s China trade policy, characterizing it as “coherent and genuinely bipartisan.”

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        I try as best I can to get 0% of my political news on TV (excluding comedy). It’s impossible to pull that off, but I do my best.

        From what I’ve heard mostly on NPR, Bernie’s voice and delivery are grating. But that didn’t stop Tangerine Butt Trumpet from getting elected.

  48. Avatar Common Sense says:

    North Carolina Republicans Pull a Fast one with a Finger to the Democrats!

    I guess I would just say that’s Dirty Pool but to do it on 9/11??? That’s Un American!

    https://www.gq.com/story/north-carolina-republicans-911

  49. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Some have wondered how all these people have died and others have been injured with the vaping. Add in some Vit E oil as a dilutent and throw in some black market non tested product and there you go!

    https://www.nbcnews.com/health/vaping/wisconsin-man-accused-illegal-thc-vaping-cartridge-scheme-n1052146

    How the Democrats and Republicans will respond to this article-

    Dem’s – My goodness he needs to be locked up for a long time and we need to send a message and crack down on individuals like this! Maybe make a law or two or three that spells out that this is not right!

    Republicans- $16 Bucks a Cartridge? Are you kidding me! He was giving it away! He didn’t understand that he could of gotten at least $25! Leaving money on the table!!! Well at least he made some bucks before the libtards could tax him.

  50. Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

    Since who we vote for matters:

    Candidate for Shasta County Board of Supervisors Dale Ball pleaded “no contest” in 2006 to the brutal beating of a 13-year-old (unfortunately he was allowed to plea bargain down to a much lesser charge):

    “A Redding police report says Ball hit 13-year-old McHatton multiple times with a metal flashlight, with a witness saying she saw a white male juvenile lying in the grass and there was an adult male on top of him “beating the s*** out of him”. His injuries were so bad that he was treated as a trauma patient, officers said”.

    Witnesses claimed that Ball was the “primary aggressor in the assault”.

    https://www.redding.com/story/news/crime/2019/09/12/shasta-county-ca-supervisor-election-candidates-murder/2088619001/

  51. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    So…AOC made a prediction that Miami will no longer exist in just a couple of years if the Green New Deal is not passed. Does anyone actually believe that claim? If so, what evidence do you see to enforce that claim? If not, why do these Alarmists feel the need to exaggerate catastrophic predictions

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      AOC ticks off maybe one mostly false statement like this one for every 100 hocked up by The Tangerine Trumpet. It’s only half false because we actually could lose Miami. She got the time frame wrong.

    • Avatar Miguel says:

      you mean like the hurricane damage in Alabama? or the Fed as an “enemy” of the state? Doug, you’re on record as being a consistent defender of the biggest blow-hard since P.T. Barnum. Glass houses and all that …

  52. Avatar Common Sense says:

    The Selling out of American Companies and American Farmland. Say good bye to the American Pork Producers as this Foreign Country is after Ag land And Seed Companies! Cutting out the Middle Man never looked so good to the top consumers of Pork in the World.

    Food Security….maybe a thing of the past in 10-15 years if all the Ag in the USA is controlled by Foreign Countries and Governments!

    http://www.takepart.com/article/2016/02/22/china-syngenta-smithfield

    • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

      Chinese and Brazilian companies have been buying American meat and pork companies for over a decade. When I lived in York, Nebraska 10 years ago the chicken processing plant was closed laying off 200 workers and the chicken were sent to China to be processed. That was an Obama deal, of course the majority of those workers were Hispanics bussed in from Grand Island so nobody cared.
      There was a locally owned ranch ten miles North of York where we bought our meat. They are still in operation unless the Keystone pipeline goes through and takes their land.

      • Avatar Miguel says:

        Bruce – You don’t raise chickens in Nebraska, and “process” them in China. There’s a good chance those jobs went to the rural south. However, you’re quite right in that the meat packing and processing industry (and the jobs included) are roundly reviled and held in contempt .. even in the job starved areas of the midwest. So chances are good that nobody was sad to see them gone.

        • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

          Miguel, that is exactly what happened, US chicken sent to China for processing, and according to Snopes, ECO watch and Health watch, it is still happening.

  53. Avatar Common Sense says:

    The Opioid Epidemic, the Family that Make Billions and the Wire Transfer to move a Billion Plus to Swiss Bank Accounts. Purdue Pharma and the Sacklers.

    https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/connecticut/articles/2019-09-16/the-latest-other-opioid-claims-move-ahead-amid-bankruptcy

    Fake News or Meat and Potatoes? You be the Judge.

  54. Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

    Doug Cook,

    Per your earlier comment, Trump has NOT been “very successful” in fulfilling his campaign promises:

    He promised to save the coal industry and its jobs, yet a string of major mining companies have gone under in recent months, and thousands of miners have lost their jobs.

    He promised that Mexico would pay for his pointless (and largely still non-existent) border wall, which is never going to happen.

    He promised that “Not even one manufacturing plant will close if I’m elected”. A number of plants have recently closed, and fewer manufacturing jobs have been added under Trump than were added in a 28-month period under Obama. However, even that growth has slowed to almost nothing, and wages in manufacturing have fallen for the first time ever.

    He has vastly increased the country’s trade deficit and annual debt, despite promises that he would balance the federal budget and wipe out the deficit.

    American businesses and consumers will be paying higher prices as a result of Trump’s nutty tariffs and trade wars, which will more than off-set the small temporary tax breaks given to the average taxpayer (with the overwhelming majority of those breaks going to the wealthy and corporate powers).

    He promised to lower prescription drug prices (they been going up steadily).

    I’m sure you won’t respond to this post, since you never respond to anything that proves you wrong. You just move on to the next ultra-right-wing lie.

    https://truthout.org/articles/under-trump-manufacturing-job-growth-slows-to-a-trickle/

  55. Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

    New allegations of sexual assault have recently been publicized against Trump’s Supreme Court appointee Brett Kavanaugh. As it turns out the White House prevented the F.B.I. from interviewing 51 witnessness to Kavanaugh’s crimes before his confirmation (link below), so it wasn’t an actual investigation at all. It’s obvious that this degenerate lied under oath, and should be impeached.

    Of course the right-wing is seizing on the fact that one of the women involved admits she was too drunk to remember the incident. However, there were a number of other credible witnesses, so that’s beside the point.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/new-reporting-details-how-fbi-limited-investigation-of-kavanaugh-allegations/ar-AAHnC4O?ocid=spartandhp

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      That degenerate you speak of was just praised by Ruth Bater Ginsberg…’very decent and very smart’ is how she described him. In addition, his entire law clerk staff are women. Making the Supreme Court populated by a majority women clerks for the first time in history. The alleged victim of this ridiculous allegation doesn’t recall anything happening. The person making the allegation is not credible. This shows the desperation of those on the left that think dredging up more weak Kavenaugh allegations is a good tactic.

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        Doug Cook,

        One of the victims claims she doesn’t remember. However, the witnesses to that incident said she was “heavily intoxicated”, so I suppose that’s possible.

        It could also be that she doesn’t want to be dragged through the mud – as Dr. Christine Blasey-Ford was – for no reason , which is why rape and sexual assault are such under-reported crimes.

        Fortunately there are plenty of other witnesses to Kavanaugh’s sleazy criminal behavior in addition to the latest MALE witness (like the 51 people I mentioned above who Trump wouldn’t let the F.B.I. interview) – both male and female.

        If this was a progressive Democratic appointee, all you ultra-right-wingers would be screaming about how credible the victims and witnesses are (I know that’s true, because you did exactly that about Bill Clinton, even though some of their stories were far LESS credible, and there were NO witnesses).

        • Avatar Tim says:

          Clinton was in office for his misdeeds. You’re digging up dubious claims from Kavanaugh’s youth — claims that nobody made back then…

        • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

          Monica Lewinsky produced the third episode of American Crime Story about the events leading to Bill Clinton’s impeachment hearings. It is due to air just before the 2020 elections. This has been in the media news for months but ignored by the left. We’ll see how many “no witnesses” there are.

  56. Avatar Common Sense says:

    The Televised Hearings brought us a preview of what’s to come. Strike One and Corey is dazed. Strike two and he stumbled….Strike Three when the “Attorney” got done with him and he is OUT of the Game. Once the Prez is done Corey will be charged with at least Perjury if not Obstruction.

    After Many hours in the ring he couldn’t even remember what he told Robert Mueller or what was in his own Books! Bam….that or Jeff Sessions helped him prep for the event!

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      CS…we see it quite differently. Corey treated the hearing for what it is. A big joke. I was applauding his testimony, he won the day. Reopening Kavenagh claims.. pushing impeachment is doing nothing but guaranteeing a Trump victory. You all don’t get it.

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        Doug Cook,

        I doubt that exposing Kavanaugh’s sleazy criminal behavior – or Trump’s for that matter – is going to hurt the Democrat ‘s chances.

        Of course Trump’s hard-core base (white/male supremacists and religious extremists who want to take over our government for their Old Testament bigotry) are going to vote for him no matter what, since no Democrat is going to hand them our government or legalize their hate.

      • Avatar Common Sense says:

        Indeed.Cognitive Dissonance Runs Deep.

        Half the Country sees the other half as not getting it. Time will tell won’t it?

        It’s the guy with the 12′ Satellite Dish in his backyard (still) and the Farrah Faucet Poster in his shop on the wall that is shouting out, “the stupid Dems don’t get it”….that’s the one that scares me the most.

  57. Avatar Michael Kuker says:

    It’s mind-boggling to me that some of you still think certain commenters are either operating in good faith or are capable of being reached with a rational argument, but you do you. We all need hobbies, I suppose.

    • Avatar Beverly Stafford says:

      It does become tiresome, doesn’t it. I imagine Barbara feels like she’s a playground monitor.

    • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

      Michael Kuker,

      Obviously some commenters will never change their thinking, despite all evidence to the contrary. However, allowing their often harmful lies to stand unchallenged in a public forum which can be read by countless other people doesn’t seem like much of an alternative either.

    • Barbara Rice Barbara Rice says:

      I suppose “certain commenters” think the same about everyone else too.

      No one’s going to suddenly have a change of heart because someone posted a link to a crummy homemade YouTube video. And that really isn’t the point of the forum anyway – it’s not Conversion Central. I might think someone is completely barking mad bonkers, but as long as they remain civil and non-libelous, they can say pretty much whatever they want, and the next person can tell them how misguided they are ad infinitum.

  58. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    In Arizona politics, which most of the nation is watching because control of the Senate could be decided here, Kelli “chem trail” Ward is being slammed by her own conservative home town newspaper, Lake Havasu News Herald, for destroying the Republican party in Arizona. Even Senator McSally had to object to Ward’s comment that they were going to stop Mark Kelly dead in his tracks. Arizona is turning blue, not because of what the Dems are doing but what the Republicans are doing. But, for anyone watching, and maybe a lesson for other Democrats in GOP controlled areas, the Democrats winning are leaning toward the right. A lot of Republicans are expressing their support for Senator Sinema while a few Democrats are calling her a DINO.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      In other news…Arizona Sen Krysten Sinema, who I think is an excellent Senator is facing censure by the Arizona’s Democratic Party because she votes too often in favor of President Trump’s agenda. Apparently voting against the administration 81% of the time just isn’t good enough.

      • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

        Doug, Senator Sinema, like newcomer Mark Kelly who is already polling ahead of Senator McSally, are not following the DNC playbook. Rather they are following in the footsteps of the real Maverick, John McCain. He has been dead for a year but Trump is still afraid of him. Feuding with the McCain family and hiding the McCain ship at a port viewing.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          Bruce…I’m not sure why you brought up Trump. My comment was just about the Democratic party that wants to censure a US Senator for agreeing with the administration 19% of the time. Is that where we are in today’s politics? You can never agree with the other party? Ever? By the way, President Trump had nothing to do with hiding the ship. It was just an overzealous aide that thought it was a good idea.

          • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

            Overzealous aide? Right.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            I just discovered that Sinema voted for the Trump agenda 58 percent of the time over the past year (not 19 percent), which is not acceptable.

            That included voting to confirm God-in-government fanatic William Barr, which is especially disturbing since she’s supposed to be pro-choice.

  59. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    Orange Mussolini just revoked California’s EPA emissions standards variance that allowed us to set stricter emissions standards.

    So much for the GOP’s bedrock principle of the states having primacy on such matters.

    And so much for allowing private businesses to decide for themselves if it’s profitable to sell cars in California. (Many auto manufacturers were against the revocation.)

    But of course, the rights of red states to suppress voting and to choose GOP winners via gerrymandering will remain sacred.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Actually Bruce, the administration just revoked a waiver that the Obama administration gave California. Why should California be treated differently than the rest of the country? Why is California gasoline more expensive than the rest of the country? Because we have to have a special blend that costs more. Another way the state screws over the poor and middle class.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        Actually Doug, the Clean Air Act empowers the EPA to grant waivers to federal emissions standards within certain constraints, which the EPA has done for CA since the late 1960s, under both D and R administrations.

        https://www.epa.gov/state-and-local-transportation/vehicle-emissions-california-waivers-and-authorizations#notices

        What’s changed? We now have a petulant, spiteful, thin-skinned, child-like POTUS who has zero regard for his party’s long-held principle of allowing states to make their own law, so long as those laws don’t undermine the intent of federal law.

      • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

        Doug, what are you talking about? I never mentioned California.

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        Doug Cook,

        It apparently escaped your attention that California has far more people – and far more cars – than any other state.

        And you ultra-right-wing Trump supporters couldn’t care less about “the poor” (stop pretending).

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          What does having more cars have anything to do with my comment? Nothing… and why do you have the need to insult me in every comment you make? What’s the point? I know you have no desire to be polite…but really. I know I have told you about my working with and mentoring young minority teens while in the Air Force. Remember your reaction? You said I just got off in telling them what to do, despite the fact that every kid we worked with through our foundation graduated high school, almost all went into college or the military and all are now productive members not our society. Not bad for a ultra right wing racist as you continually call me

        • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

          Patricia, California may have more people than any other state, but according to Wall Street 24/7, 23% of those people are poor. More than any other state.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Bruce,

            That figure is based on the fact that California has the highest housing costs in the continental U.S., and (as a result) Californians spend a higher portion of their income on rent/housing. It’s not based on actual income.

            Doug,

            California’s vastly greater number of cars generate a lot more smog. And I don’t believe I’ve ever called you a racist. However, you’ve been a rabid and consistent Trump defender ever since he first appeared on the political scene, and you admit you support most of his policies. To support Trump is to support racism, sexism, xenophobia, white nationalism, etc. etc.

          • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

            Patricia, the poverty level is set by the feds using income as a base. Whether it is California or Mississippi the percentage of poor is determined by income.
            Federal taxes, poverty level, minimum wage, are all set by the feds, it is up to the states to set their own standards. Though Trump is trying to change that and like his wall to nowhere, it won’t happen.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Bruce,

            The U.S. Census Bureau now bases their figures on the cost of living in each state, and the percentage of their income families and individuals need to spend on basics like housing (see link below, which states that California has a 20 percent poverty rate based on that criteria). In fact, that’s the only way to come anywhere close to the figure you cited.

            https://la.curbed.com/2018/9/14/17856870/california-poverty-rate-housing-cost-of-living

          • Avatar Tim says:

            Federal poverty level for 2019:
            $12,490 for individuals
            $16,910 for a family of 2
            $21,330 for a family of 3
            $25,750 for a family of 4
            $30,170 for a family of 5
            $34,590 for a family of 6
            $39,010 for a family of 7
            $43,430 for a family of 8

            Keep in mind that is based on the Modified Adjusted Gross Income, not gross income, so add at least $12,000 for the standard deduction. That means federal poverty rates are at least:
            $24,490 for individuals
            $28,910 for a family of 2
            $33,330 for a family of 3
            $37,750 for a family of 4
            $42,170 for a family of 5
            $46,590 for a family of 6
            $51,010 for a family of 7
            $55,430 for a family of 8

            Full time minimum wage in California: $24,960
            Redding median per capita income: $29,559
            Redding median household income: $52,439

            Also keep in mind that the poverty level ignores assets. A retiree who owns a million dollar home and has $500,000 in the bank, but whose retirement income is less than $25k is said to live in poverty.

    • Avatar Tim says:

      I was with you until the last sentence. Blue states suppress votes & gerrymander too: 43% of California voters register as Democrat vs 31% republican, yet the California legislature is ~75% Democrat. That didn’t happen by accident…

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        False equivalency. Of the top 10 gerrymandered states in the nation, 9 are gerrymandered in favor of Republicans. Maryland is the outlier.

        Only a fool would argue that red and blue states are equals in attempting to thwart voting (and I note that you’re no fool).

        • Avatar Tim says:

          According to fivethirtyeight, if California’s districts were proportionally reflective Republicans would gain 12%. Maryland Republicans would gain 10% – still bad, but not as bad as California.

          North Carolina’s districts are currently proportional.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            I couldn’t find that on FiveThirtyEight, but I did find plenty of evidence that it’s Republicans arguing hardest to maintain gerrymandering, and the conservative members of the SCOTUS also siding with the right to gerrymander.

            It’s pretty hard to argue against this fact: The percentage of registered Republicans in this country is declining, and the GOP is doing whatever it takes to retain power in the face of that. WHATEVER it takes. Gerrymandering and voter suppression are some of their most powerful and time-tested tools, and they’re not afraid to use them.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/redistricting-maps/california/

            Look at the “efficiency gap” under proportional representation. Change California to whatever state you’re interested in…

            Republicans are bad, but Democrats are no heroes of voter fairness. They brought us “vote early and vote often” and the “they stole it fair and square” election of 1960.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            Most corrupt cities according to University of Chicago (based on the number of federal corruption convictions):

            1) Chicago
            2) Los Angeles
            3) New York City
            4) Washington D.C.
            5) Miami
            6) Newark, NJ
            7) Cleveland
            8) Philadelphia
            9) Richmond, VA
            10) Brooklyn, NY

            Not sure why Brooklyn is broken out separately from NYC, but all the top cities for corruption are liberal…

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Thanks, Tim.

            Look at the Expected Seats Split graph for CA. The current split is 41(D)-12(R). The biggest pro-D gerrymandered prediction gives the D’s Four more seats.

            The two “compact borders” neutral alternatives and the “competitive districts” alternative take away 0, 1 and 1 D seats, respectively.

            So the status quo is far closer to the neutral ideals than to the highly-gerrymandered D-biased abomination. California is doing a fairly impressive job.

            If I was the redistricting czar, it’d be the competitive alternative. Non-competitive districts breed voter apathy, career politicians, and political extremism.

          • Avatar Steve Towers says:

            Nearly every big city in America is liberal. The only non-liberal big city in Texas is Fort Worth. The mayor of Salt Lake City, UT—headquarters of the LDS Church—is a liberal D lesbian.

            Hard to have any Rs on that list when the sample size is
            Vanishingly small. Let’s talk indictments and convictions by Presidential administration.

            C’mon, Tim. You can do better than that.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          Steve, you forget the fact that the majority of states are controlled by the GOP. After the 2016 election, there were 37 Republican governors and 2/3rd of state legislatures were controlled by Republicans. Elections have consequences as President Obama once said.. the party in control get to draw the districts. I don’t like how California does it…but, oh well.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Fortunately the Republicans lost considerable grounds in the mid-terms, including an entire branch of the federal government, and at least a half-dozen governorships that have been historically Republican for many years.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            You don’t like how California does it because it’s almost perfectly neutral? (See my post above.).

            I’ll bet you don’t like it.

  60. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    Not to mention, it was one of those nine GOP-gerrymandered states—North Carolina—that recently had its redistricting maps tossed overboard by the SCOTUS.

    • Avatar Miguel says:

      My understanding was that the SCOTUS had upheld the N.C. gerrymander — and it was the state supreme court that recently tossed it? I’ll go back to check again.

  61. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    I don’t expect I’ll ever change Tim or Doug’s minds about much of anything. But the back-and-forth with them sometimes forces me to confront soft spots in my arguments.

    Also, as I’ve said before, I abhor forums where everyone is saying “Ooh, me too! That’s what I think, too! (Those tend to be predominantly liberal forums.) Or the ones where everyone is saying, “The libtards are destroying America. I can’t wait for the shooting to start.” (Those tend to be….well, you know.)

  62. Avatar Candace C says:

    Steve,
    I’m still laughing at Patrecia’s one time comment about how she didn’t realize that something she said was considered offensive by some because self-admittedly she sets the bar for that sort of thing very low. I loved that she said that. Go Patrecia! Seems to me ANC (Barbara) does an admirable job of allowing for differing opinions while keeping things mostly civil. Conversations heated at times? Sure. Childish at times? Yep. Interesting, passionate and thoughtful discourse at times? Absolutely.

    • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

      Thank you Candace. I don’t think it’s necessary to always be polite. In fact, I think politeness is sometimes over-rated (like people who feel they need to be polite when they’re accosted by Bethel proselytizers in public), but I would definitely draw the line at inciting violence, etc.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Patrecia, “his defense and praise of Nazis”. Ok… you’re going to have to show me that one. Example?

  63. Avatar Candace C says:

    Patrecia, yeah the polite thing bugs me sometimes too. I often struggle with politeness feeling like complacency in the face of things that I find utterly reprehensible and inexcusable. Of course the kicker is most people tend to shut down or dig their heels in (myself included) when they feel attacked. I’m just as guilty as the next person of moral grandstanding. I’m just super pissed off at a lot of things lately and am feeling pretty damn powerless. I’ve decided to simply do positive things that I have personal control over. I’m starting by putting a Vote Betancourt for District 1 sign in my front yard and getting one for my neighbor across the street and his friend who lives across town. It’s a small gesture but it’s something I can personally do and I don’t have to yell at anybody when I do it. Win/Win

  64. Avatar Candace C says:

    Beverly, I did consider that possibility but decided to take a chance and hope for the best. Guess I’ll find out!

  65. Frank Treadway Frank Treadway says:

    Y’all might go on opensecrets. org or the FPPC contribution site for Assembly District 1. This way you can see what kind of funding Ms Dahle is securing for her campaign of overkill when it comes to gathering money for the November 5th election. Talk about corporate buy-off of a candidate, you’ll see some interesting ones such as the Vape Industry, Eli Lily, Phillips 66, private prisons and many more that mirror her husband, the Senator, and his money pot. All this from one who claims to be a Christian and would be aghast at what her donors do and stand for, especially the Vape Industry funding, totally disgusting. Want to feel good, return the funds. You’ve got a choice Republicans, Elizabeth Betancourt, She’s One of Us !

  66. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    I have supported and agree with President Trump in his blasting of GM officials for closing plants in the US. Does this make me a racist?

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      Uh….no. Who said it makes you racist?

      • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

        Steve, according to at least one poster on here they state anyone who agrees with Trump is a racist.

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          I think it’s fair to say that if someone generally supports Trump, they support *a* racist leader. And if they support a racist leader, they complicity support racism.

          You’ve made it pretty clear that you’re not a Trump fan and didn’t vote for him. Agreeing with him on a specific policy or two doesn’t make you a supporter.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            ..and Steve, I reject your notion that the president is a racist

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Just a few statements and actions that reveal Trump’s racism:

            1. His full embrace of Obama birtherism.

            2. His taking a full-page ad in the NYT calling for the execution of black teens who turned out to be innocent.

            3. His ongoing derogatory and fear-mongering statements concerning refugees from Central
            America, and now the Virgin Islands.

            4. The successful Justice Department lawsuit for housing discrimination because Trump instructed his employees to tell black lease applicants that all his apartments were full.

            5. He pitched a version of The Apprentice that he wanted to call, “White People vs. Black People.”

            6. His repeated demonization of four women of color in the House of Representatives.

            From John O’Donnell’s biography of Trump: “Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day. … I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control.” Trump initially denied the remarks, but later said in a Playboy interview that “the stuff O’Donnell wrote about me is probably true.”

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Doug Cook,

            You’ve got to be kidding.

            Trump has a very long history of overt racism:

            The lawsuit against him by a former U.S. Department of Justice for his refusal to rent to black people and other minorities in any of his housing projects.

            His numerous racist remarks (such as that black people are all lazy and on welfare).

            The full-page ads he took out in NYC calling for the death penalty for four Black and Hispanic teenagers who were falsely accused of rape, even before their trial.

            His refusal – even after DNA evidence and a confession from the actual perpetrators finally proved them innocent – to admit they weren’t guilty (he still claims they must be guilty of SOMETHING, being Black and Hispanic).

            His constant labeling of Hispanics as murderers, rapists, pedophiles, and criminals in general, people from the middle-east as terrorists, etc. etc.

            His defense and praise of Nazis and other white supremacists.

            Trump is as racist as they come. If you can’t recognize that fact, it says something unfortunate about YOU.

        • Avatar Gary Tull says:

          Odd. I never saw that but if anyone did make such a comment at some point, why bring it up now?

          • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

            I brought it up because not everything Trump does is wrong.
            That ia\s why I like Senator Sinema, and I believe Mark Kelly will be the same, she doesn’t get drawn into the name calling despite the names she’s been called. Senator Sinema is the future of politics, not The Squad or flaming right wing evangelists.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Bruce,

            That depends on what you’re agreeing with Trump about. I haven’t been keeping up, since I just now discovered that Sinema voted for the Trump agenda 58 percent of the time over the past year, including voting to confirm God-in-government fanatic William Barr.

            I sincerely hope the “future of politics” is NOT Democrats selling out to the Old Testament-banging Dominionists who want to replace our government with a religious dictatorship.

          • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

            Patricia, my daughter works for AG Barr and she has never mentioned a thing about God in government.
            And compromising is not selling out, it is called bipartisan and gets things done.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Bruce,

            We’ve been through this before. Every rank-and-file federal employee is not a religious Dominionist. However William Barr has openly admitted that he wants to implement biblical law in America, doesn’t believe in the separation of church and state, and is a right-wing religious extremist of the worst kind (like so many others who Trump has placed in charge at the highest levels of our federal government).

            And yes – voting to place a rabid fundamentalist religious flake in charge of a federal agency most definitely is “selling out”. Some things are too important to compromise on.

            http://churchandstate.org.uk/2019/03/trumps-attorney-general-wants-gods-moral-order-enforced-by-government/

          • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

            Patricia, the actual facts are that during her time in the Senate, Senator Sinema has opposed Trump 81% of the time. During her time in the House she supported Trump 54% of the time. That is not selling out and looks like she is opposing Trump more now than in the past. It helps to tell all the story and not just the parts you feel like telling.
            I do not, and never have, supported Trump but I do agree with some of the things he has done. Slamming corporations like GM for closing plants, tariffs on a human rights abusing China, and leaving the world climate control agreement when other countries are allowed to keep polluting.
            The stupid things he is trying to do will never be done as has been shown as his actions are stalled by courts.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Bruce – Trump’s nutty nationalistic trade wars (the costs of which will be passed on to American consumers) have nothing to do with China’s “human rights abuses”.

            And Trump promised during his campaign that not even one manufacturing plant would close if he was elected. Quite a few have closed (in addition to GM), as well as the near-collapse of the mining industry, which he promised to save.

            Also, Krysten Sinema has voted with Trump 58 percent of the time so far this year (54 percent last year), and Trump didn’t abandon the world climate control agreement because other countries are supposedly polluting. He abandoned it because pandering to major corporate polluters is what Republicans DO.

  67. Avatar Gary Tull says:

    Bruce,
    Trump claims privilege in hiding his taxes, his bank records, his dealings with Russia and Ukraine, his pay-offs to women, his hotel revenues, etc, etc.

    He appointed “AG Barr” who acts as his personal defense lawyer. The Republicans are apparently allowing them to get away with mass corruption, unchecked.

    So by natural impulse, I’m suspicious of anyone who defends either one of these two scoundrels at any level. They are either willfully ignorant and/or incompetent, or corrupt to the core. You decide.

    BTW — regardless of assuming no one is above the law, this AG claims the president cannot be criminally charged.

  68. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Today’s Key Phrase: “Conspiracy Against the United States”.

    All Hands are on Deck Bailing a lot water that the Trumptanic is taking on right now.

    A phone call to the new president of the Ukraine for some nice Favors if he only went along with the Slander of Joe Biden. A perfect way to once again Steal an Election….IF it Worked…..and If…..you didn’t get caught! Rudy screwed it up so the Prez felt he had to make something happen. And happen it did…..and for those quick to fire off well it never happened….it doesn’t matter. It’s like telling the judge….I went into the bank….my gun jammed so I left the note and ran out!

    Donald Trump actively tried to conspire with a foreign leader to sabotage the U.S. election process. There’s a legal name for this: conspiracy against the United States.

    We have a phone log and a “Witness”, unlike much of the Mueller Report. This one might be what sends enough water in to Trumptanic to send it over on it’s side in preparation for the in·ev·i·ta·ble sinking….syc·o·phants and all.

    While what’s left of the Skeleton Crew on the Trumptanic are scurrying, one thing is clear…..straightening the deck chairs is not going to matter with this latest development….

    Let us all remember….Impeachment is a “Very Slow” Process….and in this case….with a GOP lead Senate…..it’s not going to happen….it’s what happens between now and election day and what is Exposed that will be the deciding factor of the 15%. The Core base is never going to believe any facts that are presented….they are all doubling down on the alternative facts. It’s the 10-15% that will make or break the Trumptanic….Will they see the light or will they stumble into the voting booth yet again after a couple cocktails?

    When Cuomo asked him if he had asked Ukraine to promote the phony Biden scandal, Rudy initially said no. But when he was asked again, he blurted out “of course I did!” Oooops.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      CS…I guess we should start with the easy one. “…Donald Trump actively tried to conspire with a foreign leader to sabotage the U.S. election process.”. How did he do that? I guess you have more inside information than the Mueller report provided? Enlighten me. How did he sabotage the election? Or are you confused and are thinking of the actual proven collusion by the DNC and the Clinton campaign? By the way…why do you instinctively go to the Biden Ukraine scandal is phony? There is some compelling evidence. oh yeah, because he is your guy

      • Avatar Gary Tull says:

        Doug Cook,
        You mention the Mueller report. Have you read the Mueller Report?

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          Cover to cover..

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Even Mueller himself admits that his report doesn’t actually clear Trump of conspiracy, and provides evidence that he could very well have obstructed justice, and has numerous conflicts of interest. It just didn’t go far enough. Mueller quit before his job was done.

      • Avatar Common Sense says:

        https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-defends-conversation-with-ukraine-leader-11568993176

        Donald Trump asked the president of Ukraine eight times in a row to work with Rudy Giuliani on the fake Biden scandal, according to someone familiar with the phone call.

        The mere specter of the President of the United States attempting to conspire with a foreign leader, to sabotage a U.S. election, is a serious very felony. And by attempting to conspire with a foreign leader to rig his own reelection, Trump committed the ugliest crime against the United States in the nation’s history.- I call that a Traitor.

        I can’t gather your intel for you Doug. I can just analyze my sources.

        I think Warren will take it…….so Biden is not on my mind a lot.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          CS…this is another one of the scandals of the day that will disappear in a couple of days just like every other ‘scandal’. What makes you think the Hunter Biden scandal is fake? Now we know that the whistleblower who filed a complaint did not have direct knowledge of the communications between President Trump and the foreign leader in question. Another scandal falling apart.
          It reminds me of the scandal of the day from a bit ago, that many on here jumped on as another reason to impeach Trump. Remember? An Air National Guard C-17 stopped in Prestwick Airport in Scotland and stayed at President Trump’s Turnberry resort, about 50 miles outside Glasgow, Scotland? Oh the horror that Air Force crews are now being forced to stay at Trump resorts and the AF is lining Trump’s pockets…..well, except for the fact that the contract with the airport and the Trump hotel was done during the Obama administration, and Air Force crews have been there 40 times under the previous president. Why do they stay at the Trump hotel? Because it is the least expensive hotel in the area. The Obama-era Air Force made deals with the airport near Turnberry and this somehow earns Trump a flag for violating the emoluments clause? Yep…another scandal of the day that fell apart…oh, by the way, did the MSM who reported this false scandal offer to retract the story or make corrections? Of course not.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            I just spent 20 minutes researching the hotel deal, and the only thing you said above that’s true is that Trump entered into a contract with the airport in 2014. Everything else is blatant right-wing lies, distortions, and evasions.

            You can’t just dismiss everything Trump does that exposes him as someone with the mentality of a Mafia don (which is basically what he is – that and a crooked, thieving businessman). He’s not a president – he’s a member of the criminal element, and this last thing may be what does him in.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            You have it mistaken, it was the Obama administration that entered into a contract with the airport and hotel…not Trump. How can Trump make the contract in 2014 with the airport? Trump did not own the airport, just the hotel.
            “…Everything else is blatant right-wing lies, distortions, and evasions.”
            What exactly about that story is “right-wing lies, distortions, and evasions”? Why did the scandal disappear after a day or two?

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            No Doug – it’s you who is “mistaken” (see the link below). I have no idea what Breitbart etc. has to say on the subject, and I really don’t care.

            And none of these things “went away”. Trump constantly does so much that is outrageous and unethical (if not outright illegal) that one thing quickly get replaced in the media by another.

            https://nypost.com/2019/09/09/trump-had-deal-with-scottish-airport-that-sent-air-force-crew-to-his-resort-report/

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Patrecia, Who was president on 2014? Hint…it wasn’t Donald Trump. What was unethical about a businessman making a deal with the Air Force to house flight crews? As a former Air Force pilot, I have stayed at hundreds of contract hotels around the world. The gist of the reporting is that Trump, as president set up the contract to house air crews. That was the false news. He did that as a private citizen. Again, where is the scandal? I once flew into an Italian Air Force base, Sigonella AB in Sicily, Italy in the 80’s. We stayed at a contract hotel, that was a very expensive place. Was that scandalous? Maybe it was the only place that would agree to house air crews, who knows. So once again, show me what Trump has done wrong in this case? That made AOC and others bring up impeachment. Is any hotelier negotiating with the Aior Force being scandalous? By the way, I don’t read Briebart…but you seem to have no problem reading and believing far left news sources.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Doug, Patrecia is dead on with regard to the density of Trump scandals. They individually fade from attention in a few days because the sheer volume of them is dizzying.

            Migrating birds often flock together in the hundreds to tens of thousands. One of the advantages of flocking is that predators trying to pick out a single vulnerable bird are overwhelmed and confused by the sheer numbers and densities of potential prey.

            The same goes with schooling fish and Trump transgressions. It’s absolutely disorienting, the swirling, densely packed, fast-moving cloud of scandals. Who can keep their eye on just one or two?

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Doug,

            Now you’re trying to back-peddle.

            You originally claimed that it was Obama who signed a contract with the Scottish airport, when (per my link above) it was actually Trump.

            You also claimed that Trump’s resort was the least expensive place to stay on the list, when it was actually the most expensive.

            And that the 40 stays at Trump’s resort we know about so far by air force crews all took place during the Obama administration (there is no evidence available to support that non-sensical claim).

            The number of air force stop-overs at that airport have greatly increased during the Trump administration (in fact they have nearly doubled), and we are still waiting for a break-down of how many of those stop-overs involve stays at Trump’s resort.

            This is just part of a pattern by Trump, and is one of the less egregious ways he has abused his position as president to increase his fortune:

            https://time.com/donald-trumps-suite-of-power/

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Patrecia, your hatred for Trump runs do deep that simple reasoning escapes you. Let’s try this one more time, I’ll try to speak slowly so you can understand. The controversy that erupted a few weeks ago was when it was discovered that AF flight crews stayed at a Trump property. It was a controversy until it was learned that the contract with the Prestwick Airport was in fact signed during the Obama administration. Trump has no economic interest in this airport. There are other hotels that the AF uses other than Trump’s. According to the Air Force, “..We reviewed the vast majority of the 659 overnight stays of Air Force crews in the vicinity at Glasgow Prestwick Airport between 2015 and 2019. Approximately six percent of those crews stayed at the Trump Turnberry,”. the deal involved the Air Force paying a discounted rate of as little as $130 a night, compared with a typical rate of more than $300 a night. It was one of 13 hotels booked by the airport, and is approximately 40 minutes away from the airport. Again, only 6% of the crews over the last 5 years stayed at the Trump property. Probably not enough to make it break the Trump empire, as the negotiated price was $130/ night compared to the $300 regular notice So what is the scandal again? Let’s recap…the Air Force under the Obama administration negotiated landing rights at Prestwick Airport in Scotland and Aircrews stayed at different hotels in the area. 6% of the time they had to travel 40 minutes away to the Trump property.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Doug,

            The contract was between Trump and the airport – not between the Obama administration and Trump’s hotel. Your comment goes downhill from there.

            And the only real “hatred” is from the people who voted for Trump, who are overwhelmingly white and largely men (with the exception of fundamentlist “Christian women” – who are not really women, but enablers of the patriarchy and traitors to their gender). It was their hatred of non-whites, non-Christians, gay people, liberated women (Clinton) etc. that gave us a thuggish, crooked, demented sociopath as a president to begin with.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            “…Christian women” – who are not really women”. All I can say is Wow.
            Ok, say that Trump made the deal with the airport. So what? He wasn’t president at the time, correct? I suppose all the other hotel owners in the area also made deals too. So tell me again what the scandal is. That 6% of air crews stayed at Trump properties at $130 a night? How scandalous.

      • Avatar Common Sense says:

        https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/there-s-no-evidence-trump-s-biden-ukraine-accusations-what-n1057851

        Enlighten me he says……lol

        You got a Lame horse in this race my friend…..

  69. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    Patricia, Senator Sinema responded to her critics, which are very few, that she promised Arizonans that she would not become involved with the petty DC chaos bickering. I like the way she votes and so do many on her Facebook page. Also the Democrat censure attempt started before she was elected as the party wanted Democrats to vote for her opponent in the Primaries. Typical liberals follow the party line that is preventing real discussion.
    I didn’t say Trump’s actions were done for the reasons I gave but are my reasons for supporting some of those actions.
    Instead of bashing Senator Sinema, who is actually doing good for Arizona, why don’t you and your religion hating investigative team find out why the Lutheran Church in downtown Phoenix wants to demolish surrounding houses and is secretive about it’s future plans. Increase church schools? Increase Bible studies?

    • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

      Bruce,

      The Bethel watchdog group you are slandering is not “religion hating”, as many of its members are Christians and adherents of other religions. However, we generally do believe in the Constitutional separation of church, which Bethel is violating big time, per its 7 Mountains Dominionist mandate.

      And an actual Democrat doesn’t vote to put flaming God-in-government, Old Testament-banging religious fanatics in charge of the highest levels of government so they can try and destroy our system of government. That isn’t facilitating discussion – it’s just lending strength to the country’s enemies.

      • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

        Patricia, we have been down this road. Flaming God in government fanatics. My daughter works for one of those you slander of wanting to install God in government. You show links to left wing religion hating groups who say Barr said this five years ago or wrote a paper ten years ago expressing his belief in God. OMG Barr believes in God, hang him from the nearest tree. He does not force his beliefs on his employees. My daughter has never received a message from him to install God in government including a couple of weeks ago when she was in DC for training classes.
        And now you slam Senator Sinema because she doesn’t vote your way. Nobody is good enough for you.
        I’m done lowering into this vortex of negativity and will concentrate on pointing out the good in some even if they don’t meet your standards.

        • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

          Barr wants to replace our system of government with brutal Old Testament law (he said exactly that, in so many words).

          And as I’ve pointed out more than once in the past, not every rank-and-file employee is a Dominionist, or will be solicited to be one. Your comments are misleading and disingenuous in that you imply your daughter is a member of Barr’s immediate staff in Washington, which if far from being the case.

  70. Avatar Gary Tull says:

    Opinion
    The Climate Crisis Is the Battle of Our Time, and We Can Win
    We have the tools. Now we are building the political power.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/20/opinion/al-gore-climate-change.html

    • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

      Reading the Toronto Sun, climate change is front and center in Canadian elections. The Green Party wants to abolish all pipelines that would be welcome news in Nebraska.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      A temperature increase of one degree and a sea level rise of 8 inches in a hundred years is a crisis?

      • Avatar Steve Towers says:

        Yes it is.

        You apparently assume linear functions resulting in those numbers, but they’re accelerating. Of that sea level rise of 8 inches, more than 3 inches have occurred in the last 20 years. Global land ice mass is melting at an accelerating rate, too.

        Global mean temperature is ~16*C; an increase of 1*C is 6.25%. And again, the warming rate is accelerating.

        The numbers that you’re trying to pawn off as trivial are anything but.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          “…. Of that sea level rise of 8 inches, more than 3 inches have occurred in the last 20 years.”
          Not according to NOAA data and measurements. You are going to have to show me that data to support your claim. I study that data very closely using NOAA’s own measurements. the actual measurement is one inch per decade for over 150 years with no observed acceleration. In Miami Beach, for example, where sea-level rise has been worse than the average. But a 2017 study reported that the land is sinking at a rate of 3 mm per year—equal to the sea-level rise—causing a doubling of the effect and magnifying the rise of water at lunar high tides. This of course has nothing to do with AGW.

        • Avatar Tim says:

          Come on Steve, as a scientist & stats prof you know better than to attempt a ratio based on a relative zero.

          A 1° rise in global temperature is a 0.3% increase (289K to 290)

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Centigrade is the standard scale in the life and earth sciences for a reason. Absolute zero is nearly meaningless in those disciplines. The freezing and boiling points of water are not.

            A 6.25% increase in mean temp within the temp parameters in which nearly all earthly life exists is not trivial.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            Plenty of life forms live below freezing – less so above boiling – so you could just as easily use Fahrenheit (3% temp increase). Besides isn’t it circular reasoning to say that life on earth has adapted to thrive at the earth’s (current) average temperature?

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            I said “nearly all,” didn’t I?

            As for the rest of your post, you can use whatever absolute or relative scale you want. There’s a reason the life and earth sciences use C, and I stated it. You can argue around in circles all you want, but in the end you’re just being argumentative. Any scale works, but the choice of C is far from arbitrary.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            No, you can’t use whatever scale you want. This is stats 101 stuff here. You have to use a ratio scale to be able to take a meaningful ratio. Kelvin is a ratio scale, while Celsius is not (it is an interval scale).

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_measurement#Ratio_scale

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            :::rolls eyes:::

            Tim, I’m well familiar with nominal, ordinal, interval, and ratio scales.

            First of all, I didn’t express temp increase as a ratio. I expressed it as a % increase above a baseline of 0*C.

            Is that kosher? It depends on whether 0*C is arbitrary. It’s far from arbitrary. It’s the freezing point of water. C is also a scale whose parameters are biologically meaningful—far more than K—and that’s also far from arbitrary.

            I’ll give you a parallel example. Age is typically treated by researchers as continuous and on a ratio scale, starting with zero (birth). Oh, but wait! Life begins at fertilization! It’s even more arbitrary if you acknowledge that both germ cells are living prior to fertilization. So birth is an extremely biologically meaningful milestone, but not an absolute zero.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            ::boggle::

            A percentage is simply a ratio expressed as a fraction of 100. And there is nothing arbitrary about temperature; we don’t have to estimate zero like with gestational age. So saying the earth has warmed 6.25% is factually/mathematically wrong: it has warmed 0.3%.

            Life scientists and climatologists would receive so much less skepticism if they didn’t habitually overstate their case.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            You’re right about a percentage and a ratio being functionally equivalent.

            You are not correct about 0*C being arbitrary. If your absolutism is correct, researchers could not—would not—use age as ratio data. Yet they do so routinely. Postpartum age is a convenience—a biologically meaningful transition point, not an absolute zero on the time continuum. Why aren’t you insisting that we measure age from the date of the Big Bang?

            With respect to the parameters in which life exists on Earth, a 16.25 degree raise above the freezing point of water—in degrees C—is more meaningful than a 0.3% increase above absolute zero, which doesn’t even exist in nature.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            I meant +6.25% increase.

  71. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    Patrecia..of course the ‘ Bethel watchdog group’ is a hate group. I tried to join it to give an opposing perspective, but of course I was denied. It is unbelievable the garbage that comes out of that vicious group. I loved the one about how Bethel is into wife swapping. It is a disgusting site.

    • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

      Doug Cook,

      I’ve been involved with that group almost from its beginning, and if anyone had ever posted such a thing it would have been deleted as soon as it came to the attention of the moderators. That is no longer an issue, since comments are now held for moderation before they are posted.

      Also, it’s not a group for Bethel spies, Bethel apologists, or obvious trolls (and in my opinion you are all three). I’m familiar with your “opposing perspective”, and its based on nothing but a deliberate, obtuse ignorance of the facts.

    • Avatar Candace C says:

      Steve, thanks for clear, concise, “un-junk” science. Appreciated.

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        It’s just a shame that his clear, concise comment is not true. Why do you automatically appreciate Steve’s ‘science’ that is not based in actual facts and measurements? I have spent many hours looking at the data of sea level rise, and according to NOAA…there is no acceleration of sea level rise. If interested, I can direct you to the appropriate sites.

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          Neither one of us knows if what I said is true. I’m humble enough (barely) to admit that I could be wrong…you’re not a scientist if you don’t understand that most scientific truths are tentative and subject to revision. And Doug, you’re entitled to your cock-sure opinion, but you’re clearly not a scientist.

          I posted my fuller response to your skepticism below.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Correct, I am not a scientist. I don’t even play one on TV. But I am a well informed layman that has an interest in this subject, and I know where to go to look at data. My biggest problem is when those like Dr Craig make outrageous claims that SLR will accelerate to 6-10 ft, when we have been measuring SLR by millimeters. That is quite a leap, I guess to mainly just scare people. My friend Randy makes the claim that because of SLR, homes are being flooded in the Maldives island chain. There is no evidence of that at all, but he stills double downs on the claim. As a matter of fact, there is a famous tree in the Maldives. A rather large tree on the shore that sailors used to spot the island because of how low the island is and the tree sticks up to make it easy to spot from a distance. We have pictures that go back to the 30’s and 40’s that show when compared to recent photos, show no increase in sea level rise. High tide pictures from 50 years ago are the same as today. So guess what happened? A team of Australian climate activists cut down the tree. Gone is the evidence.

  72. Avatar Candace C says:

    Well Doug, I’m not sure why you assume I “automatically” appreciate anything but ok? Thanks for the offer of giving me directions but my science fact GPS is fully operable. Then again I suppose if I were going to automatically believe someone’s “science” it would more than likely be Steve’s. In my view he’s one of the sharper tools in the shed in the science arena.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      You make the assumption that my science is junk science, correct? What makes you think my science is ‘junk science’? As I stated, I use NOAA’s own data for my science. The longest running NOAA tide gauge record of coastal sea level in the U.S. is in New York City at Battery Park. Its 160-year record shows a steady sea level rise of 11 inches per century and no acceleration. A few miles away at Kings Point, New York is a station whose 80-year record shows about the same. Both locations show a steady, unchanging sea level rise rate whether temperature has been rising or falling. The Battery measurements showed the same rate of sea level rise well before the existence of coal power plants and SUVs. By the way, San Francisco has a continuous tidal record even longer than that of Battery Park – same story though. I can also bore you with new satellite data and the adjustments that I have been studying lately. but go ahead and believe Steve that quoted the first Google search result that came up.

      No one should “deny” climate change per se. It is a characteristic of the planet upon which we live.
      The argument boils down to how much of it is due to relatively recent anthropogenic increases of atmospheric carbon dioxide compared with the Earth’s natural climate fluctuations caused by other factors including solar activity. That is the $million question, isn’t it?

  73. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    Doug sez: “Both locations show a steady, unchanging sea level rise rate whether temperature has been rising or falling.”

    He’s pinning his analysis on just two of three tide gauge locations. The trouble with tide gauge data is that it’s noisy as hell—the farthest thing from “a steady, unchanging” trend as he calls it. So noisy that even if there’s a long-term trend that you can see with your eyes, there’s so much variability in tide gauge data that the trend isn’t statistically significant.

    I trust the satellite data.

    https://sealevel.nasa.gov/news/108/new-study-finds-sea-level-rise-accelerating

    I also have faith in models that show what happens with the increasing rate of continental ice melt. Models are complicated hypotheses—I’m well aware that conservatives enjoy writing them off as “junk science”—but it’s important to model various scenarios and see over the next decade or two which long-term projection is best fitting the data that we’ll continue to collect.

    In the meantime, it’s crucial that we consider the implications of being wrong. Without getting into a longish discussion of Type I and Type II errors with regard to climate change, I would argue that moving toward renewable energy and not using up the world’s supply of fossil fuels as fast as we can is a good thing, even if we turn out to be dead wrong about AGW (which very likely isn’t going to happen anyway).

    Doug and I probably won’t be around to find out which one of us is correct, but I care about my grandkids—for me, it’s a “Pascal’s wager” situation. The stakes are way too high for us to take Doug’s bet and be wrong.

    The alternative point of view? “I’ll be dead by the time the shit really hits the fan, so who cares?”

  74. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    Steve, we have 160 years of tide charts that show no acceleration of sea level rise. From all over the world. The current satellite that has been measuring seal level rise was launched in 2016. The JASON satellite use a combination of GPS, laser ranging and radio beacons to determine position. The claimed accuracy is about 2.5 cm, i.e. about 250 times the claimed precision of sea-level determination.

    I find it interesting that if you actually read your link. It describes the challenges of using satellite data. “…Even with a 25-year data record, detecting acceleration is challenging….Nerem and his team used climate models to account for the volcanic effects and other datasets to determine the El Nino/La Nina effects, ultimately uncovering the underlying rate and acceleration of sea level rise over the last quarter century”. They have to use computer modeling to come up with numbers, and we know how inaccurate those have been. But taking that all in account, the Delta between satellite data and tide chart data is in the range of 1.5mm. You are making the assumption that SLR has doubled in 25 years. No, it is simply a measurement difference and computer modeling. As I said, they are coming up with measurements that are 250 times the accuracy ability of the satellite. Me? I’ll go with the 160 year old tide charts.

    Steve sez, “…I also have faith in models that show what happens with the increasing rate of continental ice melt.”
    Why do you have faith in these models that have gotten it wrong continuously? Computer models predicted ice free Arctic summers by 2007. I can’t think of many climate computer models that have been even close. Can you?

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      Doug — I’ve plainly stated that I believe the preponderance of evidence shows that AGW is real, and that it’s effects are accelerating. I have also admitted that I could be wrong and the null hypothesis right.

      I’ll also admit to being biased by my own observations, such as glaciers in Colorado that I scrambled across 40 years ago—upwards of 25 ft thick and persisting since the end of the Pinedale glaciation 10,000 years ago—have since disappeared completely, in the blink of an eye. I find it hard to believe that to be the product of normal climatic fluctuation.

      Contrast my small doubts and admitted biases with your contention that you are dead right. You’ve looked at the data, they tell a black-and-white story, and anyone who doesn’t think you’re correct is either thick-skulled, delusional, or lying.

      Here’s what I think: You started with your answer, and all of your “analyses” are toward the end of justifying that a priori conclusion. You cherry-pick the data that support your conclusion, and exclude data that don’t. Tens of thousands of climate scientists specializing in various disciplines who contradict your conclusion—each of whom have forgotten more on the subject than you will ever know—are wrong.

      It’s hard not to conclude that there’s a hugely bloated ego behind that kind of hubris.

      Another thing: I note that you completely ignore the part of my post that asks, “What if I’m wrong?” I hope it’s because it’s inconceivable to you that you might be wrong. I hope it’s not that you truly don’t give a damn what happens to our grandkids.

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        I’ll make this the final word on this right now, because I don’t want to hijack the forum. I never said it is black and white. I agree that there has been a small amount of warming since the 1800’s. Nobody disputes that. My disagreement with the climate change alarmists is that I believe that the climate change we are experiencing is mostly natural cycles, that the percent of climate change caused by man is minuscule at best. My other disagreement with climate change alarmists is the un-scientific outrageous catastrophic claims to scare the populace in supporting their cause. No, I don’t believe the SLR will accelerate to 6′ in 80 years. When all you spout is worst case scenarios, that is not science, and it is deceiving. If you compare all the previous IPCC reports, you will see that the predictions they make, lessen in severity in every subsequent report. It is not that I don’t think we should do nothing to mitigate man’s contribution to climate change. It is just that there is not much changing of the climate we can actually do. Yes, I may be wrong. If the evidence is such that proves me wrong, I would be the first to admit it. But so far, there is no proof of any catastrophic changes taking place. I am more concerned with my grandkids ( if i ever get any) living in a country economically devastated by climate change laws than being damaged by the climate changing, which we have little to do with.

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          The primary scientific literature addressing AGW issues is appropriately careful. Inferential and deductive analyses showing trends are presented with appropriate confidence intervals in both directions.

          Policy decisions (and calls for policy changes) are different. Those necessarily have to consider the consequences of erring too conservatively (it’s worse than the central tendency) or in the other direction (it’s not as bad).

          Your concern about economic consequences is something that I’ve seen economists address—Bjørn Lomborg of Denmark foremost among them—and I think that’s an important debate. Where you see doom, others see economic opportunity. But countries that are moving forward with alternative technologies to mitigate AGW are going to be economic winners. The wind turbines at Hatchet Ridge here in Shasta County are German-made. China has set a goal of designing, producing, and having 100% electric cars on its highways.

          Numerous studies show that alternative energies are becoming cheaper than conventional energy sources. I can name 50 guys like you in Redding who don’t want to accept that because they simply can’t deal with change. I remember people railing against personal computers because they already knew how to use typewriters. Tough shit, Luddites.

          Yes, there are the extremists who only see what they want to see. You’re the Pollyanna version. There’s a local activist and ANC contributor who’s your polar opposite—the sky is falling, we’re all fucked, the planet is a baked potato… To be blunt: I put zero stock in the scientific literacy, expertise, and armchair analyses of both types.

  75. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Spend more time outside! It’s good for what ails you.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/why-spending-more-time-outside-is-healthy-2017-7

  76. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Do Actions tend to repeat themselves or does History Repeat itself?

    “…the President’s noncompliance with the committee’s subpoenas is a usurpation of the power of the House of Representatives and a serious breach of his duty to ‘preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.’ In refusing to comply with limited, narrowly drawn subpoenas, which seek only materials necessary to conduct a full and complete inquiry into the existence of possible impeachable offenses, the President has undermined the ability of the House to act as the ‘Grand Inquest of the Nation.’ His actions threaten the integrity of the impeachment process itself; they would render nugatory the power and duty of the legislature, as the representative of the people, to act as the ultimate check on Presidential conduct.”

    —John Doar, Counsel to the House Judiciary Committee, Statement Of The Evidence, July 19, 1974.

  77. Avatar Common Sense says:

    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if this body determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role. Impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”

    -Lindsey Graham on Then President Bill Clinton

    His memory is about as short as T’s Attention span.

    What do you think of that Moscow Mitch??….welll ahhh I ahhhh welll he either didn’t say that or the Socialists are umm taking it out of context.And well….it’s different now.

  78. Avatar Gary Tull says:

    Intrepid scientists witness final days of Venezuelan glacier
    https://www.apnews.com/3d4291063089460d9f32d87482f1364c

  79. Avatar Candace C says:

    Steve, I have a close family member living here in Redding who is Venezuelan. Her parents and family are still there and are not able to leave. The stories from her Venezuelan home are simultaneously frightening and heartbreaking. Train wreck is right. My life? Color me lucky.

  80. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Well High probability the Dem’s will be moving forward this afternoon with Full Impeachment Articles on the Agenda. Apparently the trying to without funds from the Ukraine “Unless they played ball” strong arm tactic to sway the 2020 Election with Dirt on Biden didn’t go over too well!

    My advice to the Dem’s is…..you better bring the big guns and line up some really good hearings from now until 2020 or you might not take the Senate and W.H!

    Impeachment is a SLOW and long Process….there is NO trap door and he Mysteriously Disappears. But now with the gloves coming off it’s a Street Fight till 2020!

  81. Avatar Common Sense says:

    This is the part where both Barr and Trump can deny that a Train is coming as the light and whistle sound from a close distance, as they stand on the track.

    Remember about a year and a half ago the reference to the T Train and a wheel was about to come off? It has. The Collateral Damage will reach far and wide.Any one on the T Team will be taken out by the Collateral Damage that will unfold before your very eyes over the next 6-12 months.

    Look for more throwing each other under the Bus as the Saga Unfolds right before your very eyes.

    Words like Treason, Felony Obstruction of Justice and some others will start making sense to those that have enough brain cells to wrap their heads around what is happening and what will happen and what has happened.

    Will some say it was all just a Witch Hunt when Barr and Trump are in Jail? Probably so…..Will some say it was all about Hillary’s emails and Obama in the end…..probably so. Cognitive Dissonance Dies Hard.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      CS…what is up with your obsession with our president? Remember 2 years ago when Russian collusion was going to end his presidency? Or the myriad of other fake scandals? Take some advice from me…trust me in this. This hatred and obsession with President Trump, this push for impeachment will do nothing but put the man back into the White House. The left keeps trying to throw made up scandals against the wall to see what sticks.. and so far nothing has. The Scotland airport non scandal I described is a good example, as is the Russian collusion story. The only collusion was with the Clinton campaign and the DNC, but of course you are so willing to overlook that, aren’t you? Here is more advice for Democrats. Find a candidate that can beat him instead of trying to overturn valid elections. So far, you all haven’t done a good job of selecting a strong candidate that will be attractive to most Americans….just the far left of y’all. By the way, you really think that Hunter Biden got on that board of the Ukraine oil company, making $50k a month on his own? A loser that got booted out of the military for drug use? No scandal there.

  82. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    Doug, are you huffing spray paint? The POTUS just admitted soliciting a foreign leader to dig up dirt on a political opponent and give it to his personal attorney/hatchet man. That under the laughable guise of it being in our nation’s interests, and his deep concern about corruption in Ukraine. That attorney of his does not hold a government position, and has ZERO security clearance.

    Imagine that Hillary had been elected, and she was using the office of POTUS to solicit foreign powers to dig up dirt on opponents and give it to her personal attorney. With a straight face, you’re saying you wouldn’t be calling it an impeachable offense?

    C’mon Doug. This guy is an abomination, and you’re looking like a shameless apologist who is absolutely untethered to any principle save political loyalty. (And don’t insult our collective intelligence by again stating that he’s not your guy. You long ago destroyed any credible claim to that caveat.)

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Steve, what Trump did was stupid and wrong. Does it rise to the level of impeachment crimes. I doubt it. For the record Trump was not my guy. He became my guy when he was elected. As I said earlier, impeachment hearings will not go good for the Democrats.
      You want to twist it to Hillary, are you also willing to admit Hillary was involved in collusion? Or do you want to ignore that scandal. What I find interesting is that Pelosi handed the Democrat party over to AOC and her cute little button nose. That’s what you all should be worried about. Not an impeachment ‘inquiry’ that will go nowhere. But the future of a Democrat party that is lost in space.

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        What a disgusting (and sexist) comment. As far as I’m aware AOC is NOT running for president. You’d do well to stop reading ultra-right-wing lie machines and conspiracy sites.

  83. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Doug it must be tough to feel you have to defend a Mob Boss/President each and every day?

    His actions speak Much Louder than his Words. His words lost meaning after the first 500 Lies. Now with over 13,000 in the books the Pathology is still Screaming at us.

    He just Admitted a FELONY. I guess that’s why Pelosi said “He’s Self Impeachable”?

    And if you actually read the Mueller Report you would see the 5 Instances of Obstruction of Justice out the 10 that are a slam dunk! ( Well unless you have Cognitive Dissonance).

    Fresh air Doug…..you need some fresh air.

    But I sure do appreciate those that continue to straighten the chairs on the Trumptanic……creates the contrast needed to continue. I feel sorry for the guy. For the kids locked in cages. For the extreme Cognitive Dissonance that has choked off any attempt to cognitively come to a ration conclusion on this topic.

    Ding ding ding….ship is going down.

  84. Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

    Doug,

    Even Mueller admitted that his report doesn’t actually clear Trump of collusion. Mueller didn’t complete his job in that regard, but at least the report makes a good case for obstruction of justice charges (among other things).

    Now we have Trump withholding $400 Million in aid so he can blackmail a foreign government into helping him smear a political opponent. No one with a brain (which includes that foreign leader) could miss Trump’s clear intent.

    Anyone who is undecided about voting for Trump isn’t going to vote for him just because his crimes and misdeeds are exposed through impeachment proceedings, and his die-hard supporters will vote for him, no matter what. It could be that the majority of people in this country are ready to move forward (like every other developed country), and want to see their taxes benefit the actual citizens, instead of the trillions of dollars spent every year to benefit the wealthy, protect corporate interests, and promote corporate imperialism.

    Also, I wouldn’t bring up military service if I were you. Trump is a 5x draft dodger who insults and ridicules military heroes.

    • Avatar Common Sense says:

      Patrecia, Pence is Knee deep in the hoopla also. His meeting recently just prior to the “Funds” being withheld
      ( pending a little help from my friends) with the Ukraine President. Then the “Phone call” to the same president when things starting coming out? Mmmmm.

      https://twitter.com/anitakumar01/status/1174849140787941377

      This is the part in the Drama that the Orange guy should really conserve some strength and start negotiating a resignation deal with less jail time! Or maybe the V.P sells him out here soon to avoid Jail?

      The Memo of the “conversation with the Ukraine President” is about 75% missing also?…..mmmm kind of like that “Memo” that Billy Barr put out on the Mueller Report…….interesting.

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        Perhaps you should spend your energy trying to find a candidate to beat Trump. So far it hasn’t gone so well for you all. It must be embarrassing to realize the only way to beat Trump is drum up ridiculous impeachment charges. The same thing that happened to President Clinton will happen to Trump. His approval numbers will climb. I’ll ask you CS… How did a loser like Hunter Biden score a $600k job with a Ukraine oil company after being tossed out of the military for drug use? And why aren’t you upset over Joe Biden ADMITTING that he withheld money to Ukraine to get the prosecutor fired. Have you seen the video? The prosecutor that was investigating Hunter’s crooked company? Should that make him ineligible to run for POTUS.

        • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

          Doug,

          There isn’t a shred of evidence that Biden acted inappropriately in any way by simply joining a large group of other western leaders, the European Union, and a long list of officials in supporting the removal of a PROVABLY (and massively) corrupt and powerful prosecutor, who was blocking desperately-needed reform to Ukraine’s corrupt legal system.

          There is also no evidence that the international consulting firm Hunter Biden worked as an attorney for was “crooked” (unlike Trump). His employment there could probably be seen as a minor conflict of interest, but that doesn’t hold a candle to all of Trump’s conflicts – even the ones we know about. There is obviously a lot more we don’t know about, since he has gone to such great lengths to hide his tax returns and business dealings from the American public.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        “I’m just not sure that a pattern of explicit attempts to extort a country defending itself from invasion by one of our chief adversaries for personal gain rises to the level of an impeachable offense.” —Some of the more reasonable Republicans

        “It’s not like he lied about getting a hummer from an intern!” — The other 95% of Republicans

  85. Avatar common sense says:

    Step one. Gather the most Accurate Intel according to your pay grade. Step Two have the Mental Clarity and Cognitive Ability to Analyze that information to come to a valid conclusion. Step three, separate facts from fiction. Step four realize when you are over your pay grade and that you are too far out on your skis!( or you can tumble).

    >>Next we will be hearing about the “Secret” Server where the Orange guy was trying to hide info!<< Sound Familiar? The 2016 email scandal….lock her up…..lock her up…..she used a private server! Well Karma……sometimes…. it comes around a bit faster than one might think.

    The first thing one has to do in a situation like this is understand…..there may Not be a 2020 Election with the current president representing the GOP. That is a reality. The probability at this hour on this day……50/50 at best! To think the GOP are cancelling the Primaries in many states to show support for the T Man? Mmmm….that's like buying one stock like GE and hoping things really change.

    Who can beat the Orange guy at the polls….IF, he is still in office? Well the top 3 Democrats are all currently polling ahead of him. So take your pick.

    President Elizabeth Warren…….how does that sound to you? Kind of has a ring to it doesn't it?

    • Avatar common sense says:

      https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/26/biggest-bombshells-in-trump-whistleblower-complaint-cover-up.html

      Kind of quiet on the GOP side of the isle…….

      If we look back in History…..it’s the cover up’s that end up taking people down as much or more than the actual crimes.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      President Warren? Not very likely. The country will not elect someone that far left. Won’t happen. Unless she tacks far to the right in the general election. Would you be for that CS? This impeachment dog and pony show will backfire on the Democrats. Hey, here is a good idea, maybe Congress should devote their energy on the border crisis or the dozens of other important issues facing the country But no, they will spend the next two years wasting their time on President Trump. Why? Because they have no candidate they can trust to beat him. It was so bad yesterday, that Schiff resorted to reading a parody of the transcript. Read a complete lie. Why? Because they have nothing and he knows that many in the country would believe the fantasy he read yesterday. Tell me CS. Why do you think Schiff had to lie?

  86. Avatar Candace C says:

    So, off topic but I can see a comment that I personally find to be “not ok”; as in no matter the intention it’s not ok to “out” people on a public forum without their permission and in this case said permission is an impossibility.

  87. Avatar Candace C says:

    Thank you Barbara. I wasn’t aiming my comment at you, I just found it to be a regrettable comment.

  88. Avatar Chris Solberg says:

    This post has been removed.

  89. Avatar Candace C says:

    Chris, I have no objection whatsoever to investigative reporting of the death of a homeless person in or out of police custody. Especially a person that may be even more vulnerable as a homeless person due to his or her personal lifestyle. Crimes against the most vulnerable of the LGBTQ+ community are frequent, tragic,
    indefensible, more often than not go unreported and yes, we should all be publicly and loudly outraged when they happen. To your point, you and I both know this particular personal story won’t be as readily accepted as a football player’s sharing of their own personal coming out story because it’s as you say not as “pretty”. That’s just a sad and unfortunate fact but it doesn’t make anyone’s story of personal pain any less painful to that individual. Why drag this person’s life through the social media mud when you could have very easily been just as outraged at their death without sensationalizing the aspect that you and I both know draws more attention (typically unfavorable attention) than the actual death? I understand
    wanting to be the outraged voice for someone who literally has no voice but there’s a difference between respectfully speaking for them than just shouting out their private lives for indiscriminate public consumption. I have a feeling that given your involvement with our local homeless that you very likely know this person. If yes, I’m so sorry this has happened and if no, I’m still very sad this happened. Either way, it’s completely awful and of course worth looking into. It’s a life.

    • Avatar Tim says:

      It doesn’t sound like it was much of a “private” life. And isn’t it a bit patronizing to try and shove it back into the closet now? I would presume that a 6’1″ guy with the audacity to walk around Redding in high heels and a halter top would resent having that part of his life denied him in death.

  90. Avatar Chris Solberg says:

    This comment has been removed.

  91. Avatar Candace C says:

    Chris, I’m not familiar with that person nor that publication(s) so I wouldn’t have seen that had you not posted the link. The only thing accomplished by me seeing and reading it was to wish I hadn’t. Misery on parade. Cool.

  92. Avatar Chris Solberg says:

    So strange to me your reporter RV wants to do a story on homeless Marcus who recently died tragically in LuLus parking lot and wants all my pictures which I have gladly given permission to use yet I feel if you had your way you would censor that story and remove his comments as well…. Your one way conversation and subsequent comments removed is an attempt to color me in the same light as homeless cross dresser Leo.

    Shame on you

    And indeed you squashing the only vocal Christian on this site that STRONGLY CONDEMNS any violence be it physical or mental against anybody of an alternative lifestyle no matter what their social economic status in life is as a open media source is truly distressing

  93. Avatar Jist Cuz says:

    HEAVEN FORBID WE OFFEND REDNEKS BY SCRUTINIZING POLICE CORRUPTION IN SHASTA LMFAO +!+

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Perhaps you should try reading the story and get the facts instead of spouting ridiculous conspiracy theories. The facts are the the jail transported this individual to the hospital when he started to have difficulties. The hospital checked him out and released him back to the jail. They didn’t even get out of the hospital parking lot before he took a turn for the worse. So tell me, what was the negligence of the jail? What did they do wrong? Where is the corruption? Rednecks? Good grief

    • Avatar Larry Winter says:

      RLF, is that you hiding behind that JC name?

  94. Avatar Tim says:

    Kudos to the Redding CCWer who twarted a violent kidnapping at the Win River gas station yesterday.

    https://news.reddingpolice.org/2019/09/domestic-violence-carjacking-and-kinapping-suspect-arrested-in-south-redding/

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      Funny how otherwise highly rational people suddenly become enamored with anecdotal “just so” stories when it comes to guns and self defense.

      The truth: The 2nd Amendment was intended as a hedge against tyranny, foreign and domestic. It has nothing to do with making us all safer on a day-to-day basis, and it’s laughably foolish to argue that it does when you compare us to other developed nations with stronger gun laws.

      The ugly truth: As a hedge against domestic tyranny, 2A is has turned into a highly questionable asset. The proto-fascist gun-humpers own most of the guns.

  95. Avatar Common Sense says:

    In Sports they say don’t take your eye off the ball. In Politics, it’s not so clear.

    What we have right now is a real Cluster Duck. We have a President that is compromised. We have a Cabinet that has aided and abetted in crime after crime.

    Obstruction of Justice. Treason and Conspiracy again the United States. Those are terms that will be coming out in the next 2-3 months.

    This is not about just another scandal. This is the tip of the Iceberg that has been spotted. The next 3-4 months will reveal what is below the surface. Things like hidden information about info on Secret Servers concerning phone calls with Putin and Saudi Arabia etc.

    You are witnesses History in the Making right now. This will end with textbooks saying….. “It was the Most Corrupt Administration this County has ever seen or had to Endure.”

    Emoluments Violations are mere child’s play in this drama unfolding on the world stage. Enriching one’s self whilst in Office is a Violation but Pales in Comparison to- T-R-E-A-S-O-N.

    Now Barr and the others including the President will not be charged on the Federal Level while he is still in Office. But the State Crimes will hit the Day he is Not in Office. And you can’t pardon your way out of those crimes.

    Tick…..Tick……The writing is on the wall…..it’s Grafitti…..not a Poem or a line from a “Beautiful Conversation” one had.

    This will make Watergate look like Disney Land in the end……..

    It’s not about Biden…..It’ s not about Hillary…..It’s about the Crimes This Administration has done……The top is now off the Jack in the Box!

    A big Thanks to the Intelligence Community! Now that’s a Group you don’t want to Luck with! They know EVERY Thing.

  96. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Hahaha, Doug, you are funny. Do you mean when it comes out in a couple of days that your lame horse put the heat on the IRS to rethink the Audit they have been doing on him>?
    Or perhaps when it comes out that he has been burying all the phone calls to Putin and Saudi Arabia on the secret servcr>>
    Or perhaps it’s the trying to bury the Whistle-Blowers Report with Barr>?
    Should I go on?

    Yes, Sir, the Truth will be coming out here soon…..thank goodness.

    That Mitch McConnell, he is a shrewd one! Telling the President to release the transcript memo with Ukraine and to release the Whistleblowers report. Wow…..with friends like that….who needs Enemies!

    If he were smart he would be trying to cut a deal right now to shorten his Jail time! It’s Everyone for themselves on the sinking Trumptanic right now….ding….ding….ding……ship is going down.

  97. Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

    I just read the most incredible thing, even for the Criminal-in-Chief.

    Trump is calling Democrats “savages”, and claiming that no one treated Obama the way he’s being treated.

    Throughout Obama’s presidency Trump himself pushed the racist “birther” nonsense, in which he claimed – all evidence to the contrary – that Obama was really a secret Muslim born in Kenya, and was therefore not entitled to be President. What a hypocrite (to say the least).

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      You are outraged over Trump calling Democrats ‘savages’? That is pretty mild compared to what you call me and other Republicans. The Democrats obsession with the president and all the demagoguery that goes along with it is abhorrent behavior. Perhaps the Democrats should spend their time on actual legislation rather than tearing down the executive office. What has congress done about the immigration crisis? Anything? Nope. As with every other Trump scandal, this one is falling apart once facts come to light. Cover up? We now know that it has been the habit of putting transcripts of phone calls in this more secured server…it has been going on since the beginning of his presidency after some transcripts of calls to leaders were leaked to the press. Cover up? When asked for the transcript and complaint, what did the president do? “Ok, here you go”
      Yep…the hyperbolic statements by Pelosi, the disgusting display by Schiff where he made up what he thinks Trump said to the Ukraine president are disgusting, and if that happened to Obama, you would be outraged.
      What’s more disgusting? Calling the Democrats savages..or pou calling Christian women, “not real women”?

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        Actually that was pretty mild compared to what Trump himself has called minorities, women, non-Christians, disabled people, etc. It just seemed ludicrous to me that someone who has incited violence and racial hatred right and left, is as crooked as they come in his business dealings, and is an ADMITTED serial sex criminal would call anyone else a “savage”.

        Also, I see no evidence that Trump’s obvious attempt at extortion of a foreign government for personal gain is “falling apart”. He was not simply joining every other civilized country in protesting rampant corruption by a Ukranian General Prosecutor, as Joe Biden did.

        And I thought Schriff’s obvious parody was a trip (the actual complaint was plastered all over the internet for anyone to read). It was also truthful – Trump actually DID pressure the Ukranian president eight times to dig up dirt on a political rival, etc.

  98. Avatar Tim says:

    Beto O’Rourke tells Kent State, site of 1970 massacre of unarmed students by the National Guard, that only the government can be trusted with assault rifles:

    https://www.cleveland.com/politics/2019/09/beto-orourke-advocates-for-gun-control-at-kent-state-after-meeting-with-may-4-1970-shooting-survivor.html

    • Avatar Larry Winter says:

      You could add that it was after talking with one of the survivors, which to me, makes his position all the more powerful. People still believe in our form of government to protect against the use of violence FROM our government. No one is calling for disarming our law enforcement that I know of.

      • Avatar Tim says:

        Localized calls to disarm police:
        UC Santa Barbara
        UC Davis
        Yale
        Stony Brook University
        Portland State University
        University of Oregon
        University of Texas San Antonio
        Minneapolis
        Burlington

        Nationwide there have been calls to disarm the police from the likes of Michael Moore and the Huffington Post

        • Avatar Larry Winter says:

          Pretty slim pool of citizens asking law enforcement to disarm. That said, I admit, I can no longer say no one is calling for disarming law enforcement.

          But I can still say that Beto’s statement at Kent State is more powerful after talking to one of Kent State survivors.

        • Avatar Tim says:

          If you’re going to disarm your citizens, then you ought to disarm your police and military or you risk encouraging the sorts of power disparities that marginalized native americans and blacks.

          But I don’t see and American disarmerment happening as long as other countries have arms.

          • Avatar Larry Winter says:

            You’ve lost me with semantics. Disarming citizens? Aren’t we talking about a certain type of weapon only? You seem to imply that there’s a large national movement to take all weapons from citizens.
            Slippin and a slidin down that slippery slope.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            If by “certain type of weapon” you mean “the type of weapon that governments use & fear” then yes. Shotguns couldn’t stop Stalin from killing 3+ million Ukrainians in 1933…

          • Avatar Larry Winter says:

            Now you’ve lost me with paranoid delusions and false equivalencies.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            The purpose of the 2nd amendment is for the people to have some measure of parity — a check on the government. Places where this was not the case have often worked quite poorly for minorities:

            Soviet Union: From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

            Turkey: From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

            Germany: From 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

            China: From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

            Guatemala: From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

            Uganda: From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

            Cambodia: From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

            Not every country with strict gun control has had a genocide, but no country with a freely armed citizenry has had one (Native Americans & Blacks were generally not permitted to own firearms during their exploitation & genocides in America).

            Proponents of gun control ought to weigh the ~7,000 unjustified homicides commited with firearms each year against the potential loss of millions of lives (and note that only ~250 of them were commited with America’s 50,000,000 assault rifles).

            Paranoid Delusions? Not if the 2nd Amendment prevents 1 genocide every 300 years (and/or increases the level of freedom within society.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Tim — Funny how up above you give kudos to some armed dude who allegedly fended off an attack.

            Again: It’s weird how otherwise rational people suddenly become enamored with anecdotal “just so” stories when it comes to guns and self defense.

            The truth (as you acknowledge): The 2nd Amendment was intended as a hedge against tyranny, foreign and domestic. It has nothing to do with making us all safer on a day-to-day basis, and it’s laughably foolish to argue that it does so when you compare us to other developed nations with stiffer gun laws.

            The ugly truth: As a hedge against domestic tyranny, 2A is has turned into a highly questionable asset. The proto-fascist gun-humpers own most of the guns.

            I look around at who would be most likely to engage in racial or ethnic cleansing if things come to a head, and it ain’t the latte-sipping, Bernie-voting NPR crowd.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            The anecdotes of “good guy with gun” are to counter the anecdotes of “bad guy with gun” that are disproportionately shown on TV & in the media. According to a CDC study conducted under the Obama administration, there are approximately 3 million civilian defensive gun uses each year (in the context of 300,000 crimes committed with a gun).

            Which do you hear about more (and does the ensuing availability heuristic match reality)?

            As for your protofascist comment, I’d personally love to see more liberal & progressive gun owners. The ideological divide with guns really seems to be between those who believe in self sufficiency & independence and those who are content to rely on government services. In my experience, that divide has significant overlap with the conservative/liberal agenda although I certainly know plenty of individual exceptions.

          • Avatar Larry Winter says:

            Tim, delusions, yes.
            Shay’s Rebellion prompted a push for a stronger central government to better protect against “insurrection”.
            Some even credit this rebellion with instigating the formation of the Constitutional Convention.

            Then came the Whiskey Rebellion that put the “armed citizens against tyrannical government is allowed by our 2nd amendment” notion to the test.
            How did George Washington respond, as well as 3 other State governments allowing the use of their Militia’s, as the Constitution’s Article 1, section 8, clause 15 explicitly provides for. Our country was new then, the founders still around, and the 2nd amendment was still fresh in everyone’s mind.

            The actions of our founders is what I base my premise that your notion of the 2nd amendment is wrong and that it is a preventative to genocides is absurd.
            As an aside, we’ve committed domestic genocide with the 2nd amendment in place.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Tim — Even if you believe your data regarding frequency of self-defense using guns—and I don’t*—the comparative statistics are overwhelming. We have a serious gun violence problem that mostly doesn’t exist in the rest of the developed world. It’s absurd to argue that the density of guns in our country isn’t a primary cause.

            *I’ve had guns pointed at me twice in my line of work—I’m told that’s more often than the average cop. In both cases, I would bet the ranch that the rural rubes who did the gun pointing would report that they were preventing me from committing imagined crimes.

            And as Larry points out, 2A doesn’t have a great record, going back to the founders, in relieving us of domestic tyranny.

            I grew up with Japanese-American friends whose families had been sent to internment camps in WWII. Patriots did not rise up to prevent that, and the victims were fond enough of living to resist opening fire on government forces. The family of one of my best friends had been strawberry farmers in Watsonville. They lost everything, including permanently losing their farm, while interred at Tule Lake. (I only saw Dick Masuda cry twice in 30 years, and one of those times was when he and I visited Tule Lake.). Only decades later did they receive reparations. 2A didn’t do a damned thing to prevent that, and if Japanese-Americans had tried to put 2A to its intended use, they’d have been slaughtered en mass.

  99. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    Judging from the last few days of posts here on Open Conversation, the end-of-the-month high colonic can’t come soon enough.

    If it were my call I’d shake the Etch-a-Sketch right now.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      I for one, am fascinated by the obsession of Trump by many on here. Yes, I am guilty of prodding comments. When I read someone call one of the president’s relative as ‘subhuman’. That gets my attention. These are strange times we are in politically, and these convos are a look into that strangeness

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        The times are not that strange… yet. The two generations before mine endured two world wars that killed 40 and 85 million people, respectively. We’ve had the longest war in US history in my adulthood…but not the worst.

        Still, it should concern us that authoritarianism, racism, ultra-nationalism, and willful discounting of rational empiricism—the conditions that gave us fascism in the 1930s—are all on the rise.

        Trump is nothing more than the useful idiot that the populist proto-fascists need to keep the groundlings entertained.

        When Bush II was POTUS, his VEEP Cheney was the truly dangerous one. Now it’s Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell.

        • Avatar Tim says:

          I see it more like Rome in the mid 300’s: citizens generally living the most lavish lives of excess yet bickering in misery over the relative pecking order all while subjugating ever expanding colonies/protectorates and fighting religious wars.

          With this outlook, Trump is actually a better leader than Obama and Bush, though only marginally so.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            I don’t disagree. Trump’s instincts are transactional, not based on brute force.

            However, the Book of Trump hasn’t closed yet. It’s troubling that he’s had a tendency to surround himself with old-school GOP chickenhawks.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          When it comes down to the nitty gritty in 2020, the country has a choice. Do we elect someone that is concerned about middle Americans or the party that is so far left now that the concerns of most of the country are ignored. Open border, gun confiscation, reperations, Supreme court stacking, electoral college, sanctuary cities…and I can go on and on. They are all losing strategies, and illustrates how out of touch the Democrats are. Big article in the NY Times the other day about California and the homeless explosion. Now half the homeless in the country live in our state. The article did a good job of pointing out the failed liberal policies of CA that is behind the increase. Thinking Send Warren is the answer will cause you to lose. Of course, Hillary is in the wings, she’s been on a speaking tour lately.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Doug Cook,

            Your comment is just a collection of right-wing talking points that are either baseless, misleading, entirely false, and/or a desperate attempt at damage control.

            Trump is a failure. He trails Obama in job creation, entire industries are collapsing (like the coal industry, which he promised to save), numerous factories have shut down (despite his claim that not a single factory would close if he’s elected), wages in the manufacturing sector are falling for the first time ever, small businesses are suffering due to his nutty nationalistic trade wars and immigration policies, he’s gone a long way toward destroying America’s relationship with its allies and its international reputation, he’s been involved in one scandal after another and has been caught in endless lies, he’s being steadily exposed for the corrupt and secretive con man he is, and hate crimes have surged a whopping 17 percent during his term, thanks to his many incitements to violence and his racist rhetoric.

            Both Warren and Biden are actually now quite popular in the areas that put Trump in office. I believe most Americans are ready to join every other developed country in seeing their taxes go toward benefitting the actual citizens, rather than the trillions of dollars now being spent to further corporate interests, here and abroad.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Hey everyone….Doug still thinks the GOP’s concern is for the middle class.

            Sad, huh? It’s like listening to a little boy whose dad has abandoned the family. “He’ll come back some day…I know it!”

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Steve, Show me how the Democrats are concerned about the middle class. Anything?

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Doug — I’m not even going to bother listing the many programs that the Democrats have provided to Americans that benefit the middle class…many of which made possible the middle class. Ironically, any time the GOP proposes to significantly alter any of them—always toward the end of the rich paying less in taxes—middle class Repubs join Demos in mass outrage.

            Nor am I going to laundry list the numerous ways the Repubs serve the rich and continuously work to back-door erode gains made by the middle class.

            In the current moment, many Demos are championing Medicare for All and tuition-free public universities. These would be a tremendous boon to the middle class. We’ll wait why you claim they’d be disasters—that’s what Repubs always do, until they get a taste.

            Take our own GOP representative. HATES socialism, right? ‘Cept fer them farm subsidies—them farm subsidies make rice farmin’ possible. And ‘sides, farm subsidies ain’t socialism,
            …cuz they just ain’t.

            Since the advent of the ongoing Reagan Revolution, the facts are: The middle class bad stayed about the same size, but had lost economic ground and security. Meanwhile, the top 20% of Americans own about 90% of the nation’s wealth, and the bottom 80% (incl. the middle class) own about 10%. America’s wealth disparity continues to grow, and the hard losers litter our streets.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Steve, “…Medicare for All and tuition-free public universities you think will be a boon to the middle class? Sorry…nothing is free. We will pay for those with higher taxes…higher taxes that keep squeezing the middle class. Who is being hurt by the ever increasing tax burden of California? Another gas tax increase hit us in July after the 12 cent a gallon increase just 2 years ago. You think me losing my private insurance will be a boon to the middle class? That the government will provide better health service? Been to the VA or DMV lately?

            Funny that you bring up farm subsidies. Farm subsidies has always been pushed by Democrats for years, I guess until you found out that a boogeyman GOP farmer took advantage of them. Matter of fact President Bush Jr vetoed the farm bill that was presented to him as being too expensive. It was the Democrats led by Nancy Pelosi that overrid his veto. This was her statement, “…“With overwhelming bipartisan votes, the House and Senate have both overridden President Bush’s ill-advised veto of a Farm Bill that will reduce food costs, invest in energy independence to reduce gas prices, and reform our farm support system.

            “This Farm Bill will ensure that future farm bills will never again look like those of the past. Thanks to the efforts of Chairman Peterson and many others, this bill makes an historic investment in energy independence and nutrition assistance, ensuring that its effects will also be felt far from farm country.” But now farm subsidies are an awful GOP invention.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Doug Cook,

            Most major corporations pay NO federal taxes, while they use the money saved to move the majority of their jobs overseas, and rake in record profits year after year. At the same time Republicans keep lowering the personal tax rate for the wealthy in general. Correcting that situation could free up billions of dollars for programs that benefit the actual citizens.

            In addition, trillions of dollars are spent to promote and protect corporate interests overseas (often masquerading as “defense spending” and “foreign aid”). That’s another possible source to provide Americans with the quality of life the citizens of every other developed country enjoy.

            https://www.cbsnews.com/news/2018-taxes-some-of-americas-biggest-companies-paid-little-to-no-federal-income-tax-last-year/

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        Doug Cook,

        I explained exactly WHY I think Jared Kushner is “sub-human”. Did you miss that part? Of course Trump is no better.

    • Avatar Beverly Stafford says:

      Amen, Steve. I gave up reading these posts several days ago.

    • Hang on, Steve. One more day. (You made me laugh at the “end-of-the-month high colonic”.)

  100. Avatar Linda Cooper says:

    Finally. Someone said it.

  101. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Today on Face the Nation Lindsey Graham will be in the hot seat. What will he say in defense of the Whistle Blowers Extremely Poignant writing?

    I expect him to try and smear the Whistle Blower. I also expect him to try to pass the “Second Hand Info is Hearsay” so it doesn’t matter defense. It’s about all they have left at this point. The goal is to try and convince the public (average joe on the street) that we should just forget about this and it’s just a political hack job by the Dem’s!

    His biggest challenge is trying to make a CIA agent look like a fool. For anyone that is not familiar with the CIA, they are the top 1% of the Top 1%. His writing style and background will be difficult to spin or tarnish but then….people voted for Trump after all! So anything is possible!

    People have gotten so used to a Scandal a week or so, but this one is different. This is the one that will bring the house of cards down as it opens the door to the other crimes being exposed.

    Only a couple of toots left on the loud horn coming from the Trumptanic as it is taking on more and more water….

    We shall see more and more throwing each other under the bus to save themselves from here on out.

  102. Avatar Tim says:

    Do climate alarmists sound like this to anyone else?
    https://youtu.be/CLxpgRqxtEA

  103. Avatar Linda Cooper says:

    Curious. Why is there a no reply option to the Steve Towers comments?

    • Barbara Rice Barbara Rice says:

      Linda, it’s a fluke of WordPress. Go back up in the thread to where you do see a reply option and comment there; it should appear in the correct place.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      I don’t see it, but I can see why in my case it would be useful to have that as a polite stand-in for a “not f***ing worth it” option.

      • Avatar Candace C says:

        Steve, lol, I think the question was not why is there a “no reply” option but rather why is there not a “reply” option.. ( I could be wrong; either way your response is funny)

        • Avatar Linda Cooper says:

          Candace, thank you for clarifying. Exactly, I meant there was not a “reply” option. Yikes. I really ought to stay off ANC for a while. And yet, it’s the intelligence of Steve Towers comments that inspire me to return. And yes, as typical, his response was funny.

          • Avatar Candace C says:

            Linda, you’re welcome and nah, nothing wrong with you. If we all stayed off of ANC due to typos or wording things incorrectly I fear there wouldn’t be many of us left, myself included!

  104. Avatar Common Sense says:

    “In Redding, as it is in heaven.” 1/8 of Redding Residents now Attend Bethel. On track to be a $100 Million Dollar Organization by 2022/2023.

    https://www.foxnews.com/faith-values/revival-christian-bethel-church-bill-johnson

    The New Mega Campus will be housed on land Zoned for Multi Family. How will that cut into available land for building future apartments? Will Apartment Rents go up in the future as fewer parcels will be left to build Multi Family units on them?

    Good or Bad? You be the Judge.

  105. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    Orange Mussolini’s thoughts on the whistleblower include: “spying,” “treason,” and “civil war.”

    How is it possible for his supporters to not see this as tilting toward fascism? I mean, there’s IS a small minority who are flat-out saying that the end game is one-party totalitarian rule. But what about the rest? Do they not see that this guy is a dangerous lunatic? A guy who truly truly wants to be a Putinesque strongman?

    I’m mean, WTF is it gonna take?

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      Y’know what, though? F*** it. If Orange Mussolini and his yahoo followers want a civil war, part of me says, “bring it.”

      I remember watching video of the fat, drunk, aging mouth-breathers and video game-atrophied sulking incels that took over the wildlife refuge in Oregon. Let’s see them take the major cities in every state in the country—they’re almost all liberal, after all.

      I don’t think the 25-40-year-old Crossfitters who are 57% of the population of every major American city will be crying, “Oh no, it’s an army of Budweiser-hammering Boomer rubes who browse conservative memes sixteen hours a day—how will we get out of this?”

      I mean, these Gomers and Goobers are terrified of and obsessed with a cute little 20-something congresswoman who represents the Bronx and Queens. Imagine them trying to take the Bronx from a coalition of the borough’s 70 street gangs. Imagine those rubes trying to take the East Bay and East LA.

    • Avatar Gary Tull says:

      It seems GOP senators will pay a hefty price if they don’t break with this Putin lap-dog-lunatic president soon.

      A number are in business with the Russians now. Hello Turtle Man.

  106. Avatar Candace C says:

    Steve, “WTF is it gonna take?” Normally I’d say it’s gonna take people losing money as that seems to be the main reason people use (the economy is “good”) to be willing to turn a blind eye to things Trump does and says that they say they don’t like. Thing is most of his unflinching base are nowhere near being wealthy. They cry foul at the Dems for not supporting the working poor and “middle class” and yet they support this president who quite obviously does not give one flying “duck” about them or their families. So, to your question, if this latest thing didn’t do it there’s nothing that I can think of that will change the minds of Trump’s base. Nothing. Useless to try at this point. To parrot Trumpspeak “Sad. Many people are saying it.”

  107. Avatar Common Sense says:

    As we send Sept off into the wild blue yonder let’s just say a lot has happened in the last 72 hours! Billy Barr is in Italy to try and drum up someone to manufacture dirt on Biden and any of Trumps top Opponents.

    A Secret Call now to the Aussies trying to get them to Drum up some Manufactured Dirt on Biden.

    That “Secret Code Word Server” that VERY few have access to is brimming with beautiful information on all these “Conversations” with foreign leaders now.

    Now Russia issues a Stern Warning to Trump: Do NOT release any Conversations with Putin!! We won’t authorize that!! Ummmm….when did Russian Get to decide anything for the USA?……oh that’s right…….they have instructed their “Ass et” not not take Putin down with the Trumptanic!

    Restock that Popcorn….get your Soda’s out of the Fridge…..the Throwing each other under the Bus has just started ramping up to high gear!

    Thursday should be an interesting day with Kurt Volker Testifying……oh….we are just getting this circus to the Stadium!

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      CS…you need to find a better hobby

      • Avatar Common Sense says:

        Does the Truth bother you, Doug?…..I know facts do. This next month will be the most memorable since the Nixon Fiasco. OR is it that I say something and you read about it a day or two or three later in the media? Is that what is bothering you, Doug?

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          That’s what you all said about Russian collusion. How did that work out for you? The Ukraine story is already falling apart, Pelosi will put together a phony little investigation, then decide not to go ahead with impeachment…why? Because the facts are falling apart.and she doesn’t want to hand the party over to the squad . Hey guess what? Obama also put correspondence in that super secret server… Yawn. I’m not bothered at all CS, just amused by your hair on fire hyperbole. Here’s a better idea, find a candidate that can beat Trump…but it appears to me that even you think that isn’t a possibility, which is why you are so engulfed with impeachment. Good luck, lol.

          • Avatar Common Sense says:

            Oh Doug, you are such a fun one. He Will Be Impeached. The Question you might ask is….will he be removed? I say he won’t with a GOP Majority in the Senate. Unless those raisins turn into golf balls.

            President Warren…..kind of has a ring to it!

            Ukraine is falling apart? Lol…..no….he just added Australia to the mix!

  108. Avatar Striker says:

    Yet, the Democratic party has no platform , only get Trump out!

  109. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Eleven Phone Calls and Meeting in Person ( once with NO transcripts or people around) . Mmmmmm…..two…..plus two is……

    Ask yourself this question: WHY would American Need Russia’s Permission for Anything??

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/30/trump-putin-conversations-transcripts-russian-permission