Comment Policy: We welcome your comments, with some caveats: Please keep your comments positive and civilized. If your comment is critical, please make it constructive. If your comment is rude, we will delete it. If you are constantly negative or a general pest, troll, or hater, we will ban you from the site forever. The definition of terms is left solely up to us. Comments are disabled on articles older than 90 days. Thank you. Carry on.
Facts:
The median age of fatal covid19 cases is over 73 (from NYC data)
The average life expectancy for a 73 year old American is 13 years
The median age in the US is 38
The average life expectancy of a 38 year old is 40 years
The median age in Sweden is 41
Sweden has used an informed freedom approach instead of a lockdown
Sweden has a population of 10,333,000
Sweden had its first case on January 24
Sweden has had 2,586 COVID19 deaths
California has used a widespread lockdown
California has a population of 39,500,000
California had its first case on January 20
California has had 2,036 COVID19 deaths
“Best case scenario” assumptions:
The average decedent had average health & life expectancy
Sweden’s informed freedom will not pay off later in higher herd immunity if there are subsequent COVID19 flare ups
California’s lockdown will not hurt it later in lower herd inmunity if there are subsequent COVID19 flare ups
Inferences:
Sweden’s informed freedom approach has likely led to 4.86 times as many deaths
California’s lockdown has sentenced 39,500,000 citizens to 43 days of house arrest
Those 1.7 billion days of house arrest are equivalent to 116,335 life sentences of house arrest for the average American 38 year-old
In exchange for those 116,335 life sentences California has probably saved 7,859 lives
Those 7,859 median age 73 lives equal 37,300,000 days of life saved
Conclusion:
At best, California’s lockdown saves 1 day of life in exchange of 46 days of house arrest
Nice try, Tim.
I was following your numbers and math, but your inference is skewed intentionally to render your conclusion a pointless point.
You went to a lot of effort to get nowhere.
Ignoring the validity of the math spinning up to your conclusion:
The COVID-19 evil deity comes to me and says: “You have a choice: You can either endure the kind of ‘house arrest’ currently being enforced in California for 46 days, or some random person you encounter in those 46 days has to die. Could be a stranger, could be someone you know. Pick one or the other—stay home, or someone dies.”
I’ll take the 46 days of this ahead of sentencing someone to death.
“You have a choice: You can either endure the kind of ‘house arrest’ currently being enforced in California for 46 days, or some random person you encounter in those 46 days has to die ONE DAY EARLIER THAN THEY OTHERWISE WOULD.”
(capitals my correction/elaboration)
And again 46 days is using rosy assumptions. Plugging in more reasonable values, like a 2 year pre-covid19 life expectancy for the average patient that dies, quickly turns 46 into 300+ days of quarantine to save a random stranger 1 day of life.
Also recognize that stay at home orders are far less objectionable for retirees living in 2500sqft homes on waterfront acreage than for working poor living in 250sqft mobiles in run down trailer parks – especially when the former frequently violate the order to make trips to buy inessential items like tulips from Home Depot for busywork projects around their homes.
I think you’re trying to shame me about the comfort of my home, or my trips to Home Depot. I order for curbside pick-up from Home Depot—the limitation is that they won’t pick up lumber for you, so I did have to go inside once for that. Admittedly, I’ve also been inside our PC True Value Hardware store a couple of times. I’ve ordered nearly all of my plants from McConnell Arboretum and Providence International (Shasta College) for pick-up at the gate, and by mail order (still waiting on those shishito peppers!) I wear a mask in case I’m a carrier and don’t know it. I keep my distance from people to the extent possible (there are quite a few locals who refuse to respect the clear intention movements of others—what can you do?)
But you’re reinforcing a couple of points that I’ve made previously.
First, I’m all for opening up ASAP, as soon as it’s not going to result in a blow-up, mostly for the sake of non-essential, low-income workers, as well as the huge cohort of local kids for whom school is the most nurturing place they have.
And second, your hypothetical trip to Home Depot to buy tulips illustrates just how absurdly overwrought your whole “house arrest” and “lifetime equivalencies lost” histrionics go. Yeah, people are free to go to Home Depot to buy tulips—it’s exactly like wearing an ankle bracelet that gets you thrown in jail if you leave your property, isn’t it?
I’m not trying to shame you for having a nice house, but I do think it makes your house arrest a hell of a lot more enjoyable that a working poor family of five living in a trailer or tiny apartment. I also don’t think people who have been violating the stay at home order by making inessential trips to closed state parks or for home improvement (vs maintenance/repair) projects ought to be so quick to defend the loss of freedom incurred by those following the rules.
I have property, and I’m in no way bored (maybe a little stir-crazy). I’ve knocked off about 10 multi-day projects and easily have that many more. And I agree that the celebrity “I’m suffering through this too” celebrity testimonials from Malibu, Maui, and Melbourne mansions are obnoxious AF.
“I’ve knocked off about 10 multi-day projects and easily have that many more.”
Steve, I live on ten acres, and you’ve just reminded me of how I’ve been a slacker piece of sh*t during these here stay-at-home daze, er, days.
Thanks a lot, dude. 🙂
My father lived to be one month shy of his 90th Birthday and my mother is looking forward to a huge party to celebrate 90 early next year. Genetically, my expected lifespan is considerably longer than what you state. Therefore, think again before including me in your GOP Death Panel discussions.
And let me explain why I don’t buy your “life sentence equivalents”. It’s an abstract number that doesn’t relate to anything real. Like when we took the dollar off of the gold standard. Our dollar is now based on our faith in our economic system. You’ve essentially turned the idea of life into a number without a name, face or relatable consequences. The measures taken has actually saved lives for real. “116,335 life sentence equivalent” does not equate to even 1 life sentence of house arrest. Ever.
You are actually sounding like a communist apparatchik.
Even if you find home isolation dislike house arrest, California citizens’ objective loss of 1.7 billion days of freedom is quite real yet our supreme leader is not using any measures like it in his metrics for reopening California. Like an actual communist, the loss of freedom is of no apparent concern to Newsom.
Using your logic of days lost of freedom, let me be objective also. If we take, at rest, 12 breaths a minute with a one second pause of not breathing in between, that’s 12 seconds of not breathing a minute. That’s 288 minutes per day of not breathing and since we die at around 5 minutes of not breathing, each and every one of us dies around 57.6 times a day.
And you worry about loss of freedom by stay at home orders? Were all dead anyway!
Larry, no wonder I’m so tired!
Cases/million people: Sweden 2,581, Norway: 1500
Deaths/million: Sweden 316, Norway: 41
So Sweden has basically sacrificed 3225 vulnerable people.
Sacrificed? Hardly. Sweden isn’t committing senicide by ice floe here, its citizens simply made the hard choice to preserve freedom rather than employ extraordinary measures to extend the lives of the near dead.
Thank God our Founding Fathers were so inspired to preserve our freedom by enshrining in the United States Constitution the declaration that governments cannot deprive any person of “life, liberty, property, or the right to inflict horrible deaths on others”…
Again, Covid19 is doing the killing, not the government or its citizens.
Anne Thrope May 11, 2020 at 12:31 pm
“Again, Covid19 is doing the killing, not the government or its citizens”
False. By demanding and practicing the spurious right to infect others, trump the sociopath and his followers have intentionally killed tens of thousands of Americans, and sickened hundreds of thousands more.
The great majority of Americans who have been infected or killed by COVID-19 are not victims of the disease itself, but of the trump regimes failure.
And even today, as the whole world watches in pity and horror at the results of the trump regimes failure, the trumpists demand the right to sicken and kill untold millions more American victims.
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
“Again, Covid19 is doing the killing, not the government or its citizens.”
Miss Anne, you might enjoy reading some of the criticisms of scientific reductionism, such as “The spandrels of San Marco and the Panglossian paradigm: a critique of the adaptationist programme” by Stephen J. Gould and Richard Lewontin.
The limitations of the reductionistic “germ theory of disease” are pretty obvious. Extremist holistic explanations aren’t helpful, either, but Ed is right. You can’t blame the virus alone for our country’s bungling of the pandemic and our hugely disproportionate share of the carnage.
Anne, when real lifetimes expire, you equivocate.
But lifetime equivalents lost? The horror!
The “near dead” here in the states include my Colorado relative Butchy, two years my junior (58), no known predispositions other than he was a yahoo who thought all of this was a bullshit plot to take down Trump, and refused to take precautions if he could get away with it. If he were still alive, he’d be reposting “Plandemic” with the comment like: “Watched this last night. Whoa! Makes you think.”
He was the life of the party, though. If there was a piano in the room he was at it, playing early R&R (Little Richard, Fats Domino, Jerry Lee Lewis), blues, and barrelhouse jazz. All self-taught and played by ear.
The “near dead” also included one of my all-time favorite musicians, John Prine. Prine had toured as recently as November and was set to tour again before the pandemic hit. He caught the virus taking care of his sick wife, Fiona, at home. Granted, he was 73 and had predispositions, but he was far from “near dead.” I’d have loved to see him one last time at Hardly Strictly Bluegrass this coming fall.
If you want to speak epidemiologically about the lives lost from action/inaction from our political leaders then it is intellectually dishonest to bring in outlier anecdata. But these individual-level emotional appeals seem to be the modi operandi of most of those advocating we do/infringe more.
80% of deaths are aged 65+ – a cohort comprising just 20% of the general population. And 50% are older than 73 (NYC) or 75 (nationwide). According to the CDC data, fewer than 10% of deaths had no preexisting conditions.
Miss Anne — You don’t think it’s hyperbolic to sweepingly dismiss the entire cohort of those who are dying in this pandemic as the “near dead”? If I’m 66 years old and 15% overweight, but otherwise healthy, with a familial life expectancy into the mid-80s, am I “near dead” and thus expendable? Are the 20% of people who die and aren’t yet 65 also expendable because they’re “near dead” enough?
What about the millions of people whose lives haven’t ended owing to global preventative measures? Are they are all “near dead” people who don’t really deserve to be alive?
Not to mention the intellectual dishonesty/logical circularity of categorizing, a posteriori, all of those who have died as the “near dead,” based on the fact that they died.
You should probably stop pretending that the biases your verbal categories expose are statistically based—whereas everyone else’s are based on anecdotes—if you’re really interested in intellectually honesty.
And if you were being honest, you’d just admit that you don’t want to sacrifice a dime of your wealth or a hint your sense of convenience for the sake of other people, because that’s not how you’re built. Yeah, that would be truly honest.
This is about freedom, not wealth. The people killed by covid19 are just as expendable – or just as essential – as those who die from car accidents, smoking, drinking, eating high fructose corn syrup, etc. We could be a much safer country with severe restrictions on food/alcohol/drugs, but we allow those deaths because it is a free country, or used to be…
It is not circular reasoning to note those with preexisting conditions (plural) aged 65+ don’t have the greatest life expectancy or that COVID19 represents a much lower risk to them than alcohol or tobacco (or driving – for those in Shasta County).
And since you keep implying my motives are pecuniary, let me asssure you I’m doing better than ever financially. All my tenants paid April & May rents and the March stock market crash finally gave me the chance to selectively deploy that 50% cash in my portfolio I had been hoarding for the last 2 years.
Irrational panics are a great time for contrarian investors like me (“Buy when there’s blood in the streets”), but I do fear the additional rise in income equality will further lead the masses to extreme authoritarian leaders (from either side of the isle) and result in an even larger erosion of liberty and potentially an even larger loss of life.
Miss Anne — It most certainly is circular reasoning to broadly refer to people who have died of COVID-19 as the “near dead.” It’s also grotesque, but I know that being accused of illogic and hyperbole are greater burrs under your saddle.
And I didn’t accuse you of not taking excellent advantage of the financial opportunities afforded by the pandemic. Just that you appear to weigh financial risk/reward more heavily than human lives.
For you and I and most of the rest of us, it’s not about freedom. It’s about willingness to sacrifice for the greater good…or not. A small business owner in Redding in the food/drink sector who is open for business told me, “My customers are tired of this bullshit.” Nobody is going to shut him down or fine him—all of this is largely voluntary. He mostly risks being “educated”—whatever limp-dick response that implies.
What a horrible experiment, and terrible cautionary tale. https://www.sfgate.com/science/article/Sweden-herd-immunity-experiment-backfires-covid-15289437.php?fbclid=IwAR3WeCDRSykhYHA1Pq2_rlrUz0fUf_nBECl02VWejYQR8vbHDa2BdSa6o-Q
Doni,
In case you missed them, for some more detailed reports on the Swedish tragedy, which trump is now essentially trying to replicate in the USA, see the comments below:
Ed Marek May 20, 2020 at 12:26 pm
There are some simple-minded commentators on ANC who demand we sacrifice hundreds of thousands of American lives to restore prosperity by ending all “social distancing” public health measures.
What they do not understand is that in this pandemic “..most of the economic contraction is caused by the virus itself and occurs regardless of whether governments mandate social distancing or not…”
The paper below analysis the example of two neighboring nations:
“Pandemic, Shutdown and Consumer Spending: Lessons
from Scandinavian Policy Responses to COVID-19?…
Ed Marek May 21, 2020 at 1:14 pm
In the last few days the bad news from Sweden has accelerated along with the pandemic.
Americans should be concerned, because trump’s current plan essentially replicates Sweden’s “decision to have no lockdown … a terrible mistake that no other nation should copy”.
In fact, the USA is already ranked fourth in “deaths per million inhabitants per day on a rolling seven-day average between May 13 and May 20” and trump’s policies could well move us up to number one in number of deaths, in the entire world, in the very near future.
“Sweden becomes country with highest coronavirus death rate per capita
Sweden has now overtaken the UK, Italy and Belgium to have the highest coronavirus per capita death rate in the world, throwing its decision to avoid a strict lockdown into further doubt.
According to figures collated by the Our World in Data website, Sweden had 6.08 deaths per million inhabitants per day on a rolling seven-day average between May 13 and May 20.
This is the highest in the world, above the UK, Belgium and the US, which have 5.57, 4.28 and 4.11 respectively…”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/20/sweden-becomes-country-highest-coronavirus-death-rate-per-capita/
“Skeptical experts in Sweden say its decision to have no lockdown is a terrible mistake that no other nation should copy…
The model preferred by the trumpists predicts 2,104 COVID-19 deaths projected by August 4, 2020 for California, and 17,337 COVID-19 deaths projected by August 4, 2020 for Sweden.
Both numbers are probably significantly underestimating the actual number of deaths we should anticipate, but I would not be surprised if the ratio of total fatalities ended up looked similar, if current policies are maintained by both California and Sweden for the duration.
https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/california
The Sociopaths among us may want to plug those numbers into their equations and consider the results.
And by the way, my “house arrest” yesterday included a visit to Burney Falls, where I saw only a half dozen other visitors, followed by a stop at Safeway to pick up ~a week’s worth of Tri-tip for the BBQ.
There are not many places in the world which have been as lucky as North California (for many of us) as to the minimal effects of the pandemic…so far.
Of course, it looks like trump and his cult could be about to change all that…
My understanding, albeit secondhand, is that Sweden counts any death where the decent tested positive for COVID19 – including unrelated deaths from accidents and suicides.
PS: You’re bragging about violating the stay at home order to see Burney Falls and I’m the sociopath? From the CA COVID19 stay at home order FAQ:
Q: Can people still go hiking or visit state parks?
A: Californians can walk, run, hike and bike in their local neighborhoods as long as they continue to practice social distancing of 6 feet. This means avoiding crowded trails & parking lots.
State Parks, campgrounds, museums, and visitor centers have been closed to help slow the spread of the virus.
House arrest? LOL
I know, not a fair comparison: people on house arrest can go to work and church.
I know, not a fair comparison: people on house arrest can’t got to Home Depot to buy tulips.
We seemed to have forgotten why the need of the shutdown. When the lockdowns began in March, we were told that if we didn’t stay home our hospitals would be overwhelmed with covid-19 patients, intensive care wards would be overrun, there wouldn’t be enough ventilators, and some people would probably die in their homes for lack of care. To maintain capacity in the health-care system, we all had to go on lockdown—not just the big cities, but everywhere. Remember? We had to flatten the curve? We didn’t want to overwhelm the health care system? But with the exception of New York City, the overwhelming surge of coronavirus patients never really appeared…at least not in the predicted numbers, which have been off by hundreds of thousands. Even in NYC, Gov Cuomo was begging for 30,000 ventilators. There was much criticism on these very pages that President Trump was not giving them to NY…as it turned out, they needed about 4,000. The Navy Medical ship in LA only handled a few dozen patients. I’m sure the governors and health officials who ordered these lockdowns meant well. They based their decisions on deeply flawed and woefully inaccurate models. Now that we know our hospitals aren’t going to be overrun by COVID-19 cases, governors and mayors should immediately reverse course and begin opening their states and communities for business and put the millions of people, like me back to work.
There are actually 2 reasons to flatten the curve. The second being to reduce the overall numbers of people that become infected, thus saving lives. The graph we’ve all seen showing the two curves depending on response originated years ago without a health care capability line. If you notice under the flattened curve is the number of those infected while we practice “non-pharmaceutical interventions” and the graph continues past the flattened area to when the infection rate peters out.
In fighting wildfires they have to contend with resources being overwhelmed but once you get it within containment lines, you don’t release resources until you know you can keep it from escaping and going wild again.
Larry. using your wildfire analogy, one thing that doesn’t happen (yet) is the government saying, those of you that are in the fire zone, we will evacuate you until the fire season is over. We are getting very close if not there already with state and local governments crossing the line with violating civil liberties and the Constitution. We have already seen instances of politicians with authoritarian impulses to amass power, and often, measures introduced during emergencies can’t easily be dismantled.
If you look at California, for instance. The numbers look better than most states, we successfully flattened the curve, hospitals are actually laying off workers because they are not doing elected surgeries, but the governor is tightening restrictions? Why? He backtracked from the beach closings he directed last week after local officials protested and said they were fine with keeping the beaches open.
We are walking a tightrope here. the balance of protecting citizens and maintaining our civil liberties. When I hear a Democrat leader say, “…see this (Covid-19) as a “tremendous opportunity to restructure things to fit our vision.” That makes me very, very nervous. The state of California will run out of unemployment funds in a couple of weeks, then what? I would love to get off the rolls and get back to work.
Doug, to make your analogy more realistic, if those that are in a fire zone, one where there are still active fires burning, and the fuel and wind direction can put you in danger, they will keep those evacuation orders in place until those threats are over. It’s not about “fire season”, but about fire threat.
To add on to the fire analogy, viruses are like wildfires in that they need fuel (people) and wind (modes of transportation). Embers can jump miles and start a whole new fire, putting others in danger. As long as there are still hot spots of the virus and the transmission rate is greater than 1, to loosen restrictions is akin to adding fuel and wind to fire. It only takes an ember to blow up.
The mitigation measures are working—the death toll so far has been more limited than the worst-case models predicted. That proves that the mitigation measures are an over-reaction, and the models were wrong.
:::brain bubbles cause head to explode:::
I thought the point of isolation, via masks and gloves as well when acquiring supplies, was to protect against an unknown. And an “event” without a cure. My grandmother, who lived through the flu epidemic, continued to boil her water and keep it cold in the fridge. If someone got sick, she immediately isolated them in a bedroom, made sure hands were washed, and changed the sheets and towels often. When I was put in charge of implementing a new computer program at work (which was stupid because I knew little about computers), I used a phrase, “reduce the variables.” The other thing I did was create a users group with the other museums who had the misfortune to be using this particular program (the start up computer company with this program is long gone.) Anyway, it saved me a lot of grief to be sharing information with people much smarter than me. And provided all of us useful information to make the best from an awful product. Yes, I’m attempting to make an analogy here.
I will “argue” that we don’t know for sure that hospitals won’t be over-run. So yeah, I’m in the camp where the variables ought to be considered and attended to. And Doug can snark about Trump comments from commenters all he wants, however, he also snarks Governor Cuomo with Fox phrases like Cuomo “begging” for ventilators. The Governor was asking, asking for help from a government who should (I didn’t write ought) to be in charge with distribution.
I understand I’m in an enviable situation, with being retired, and of course I feel for those who need to work. I did come by the extra square footage of this home the hard way, with fire insurance money. I’m trying where I can. Paid for my cancelled hair appointment, etc. My husband still shops at the local farmer’s market alone. Most folks are masked and gloved, and distanced. And there’s an extra thank you on all sides for supporting these small growers. Yet, in some way, we all are impacted. Optometrist closed, and my glasses broke, dentist closed, and my partial broke. Small potatoes I know compared with needing an income.
Anyway, reading some of the comments reminded me of that phrase, “give me liberty or give me death.” Hum. Tell that to the health care and essential workers. Because in this instance, that other phrase comes to mind, “no man is an island.” Feel free to substitute “person.”
Linda, there was much criticism on these very pages lambasting the president for not giving NY the 30,000 ventilators that he said were needed. As it turned out, he needed a fraction of those ventilators, about 4,000 were used. They had 800 stored that they never used. So I don’t think that was being ‘snarky’. Looking at it it retrospect, the Trump administration was correct. I just don’t understand how the administration can be blamed for everything, but can never be given credit for good news. That is what is ‘snarky…’ the endless blaming of Trump, when we , as a country mitigated the damage better than most.
I can’t remember who said it, it might have been you, that wished Governor Cuomo was president instead of Trump. Gov Cuomo, who is in charge of the NY metropolitan area that has HALF of all cases and deaths in the entire country. More deaths in Long Island than the entire state of California. A Democrat governor and mayor that defied the Trump administration’s recommendations to close the NY subway system. Why on earth does anyone think the governor did a good job? It looks like as a country, we really dodged a bullet…this could have been much worse. We will have but a fraction of deaths that were predicted a month or two ago…and I’m not talking about worse case scenarios. I for one, will give as much credit to the Trump administration as you wish to assign blame. Seems fair to me.
This virus will go away soon, but the economic impact will last for years to come. State and local governments are not getting the tax revenues they need for services and infrastructure. It’s time to get people back to work.
Doug, for the record, it wasn’t me that said I wished Governor Cuomo was president instead of Trump.
Noted…
Linda — I think the “President Cuomo” nonsense is pure partisanship. I don’t think the explosion of COVID-19 in NY is his fault—that has far more to do with timing and population density. But I don’t see any clear evidence to support the notion that he’s done and amazeballs job. I think he’s getting credit mostly for being willing to criticize Trump.
Meanwhile, our own governor’s response pretty much stepped on the throat of the initial outbreaks in the Bay Area and SoCal. But Newsom has kept his head down—he’s not been especially critical of Trump, and has offered resources to other governors as our need has declined. I’ve often said that Newsom is a little too smarmy for my tastes, but of the three leaders, he’s clearly been the most effective.
“Scoreboard,” as they say.
Doug — Nobody with half a brain is blaming the administration for everything. The administration isn’t being blamed for being the source of the virus. Nor is there much blame for the happenstance of the disease eventually reaching this country. It’s pretty much reached everywhere—that’s why it’s called a pandemic. Trump’s been blamed for shit-canning the department of the CDC that was responsible for addressing pandemics, but I’ll grant you that he probably wouldn’t have done that if he’d had a crystal ball. Shit happens, right?
The Trump administration deservedly gets the blame for squandering a head start. We had longer to react than Asia and Europe. Trump was briefed repeatedly in January that a pandemic was erupting, and he wasn’t interested. For weeks we listened to reports of the horrors in Italy and elsewhere, and Trump did almost nothing other than deny and evade reality. Today, as a result of his inaction, we have almost 28% of the world’s COVID-19 deaths with only 4.25% of the world’s population. That’s about 7x our pro-rata share. And unlike Asia and Europe, we’re not over the hump—there will be a lot more deaths to come. You won’t even try to explain that away, because you can’t. But we all know if the same had occurred under Obama, you’d be screaming for his head on a pike.
The only heartening thing about this mess is that if there were ever an event that would allow Trump to fully flex his fascistic tendencies, here it is. But clearly, he doesn’t want the responsibility. He’s repeatedly punted big decisions to state governors. Re-open America? Not on his orders. He doesn’t want to be holding the bag when the final death toll is tallied—he’d rather point fingers. He’s already shown what a two-faced chickenshit of a leader he is when he criticized governors for not opening up faster, then criticized Florida’s governor for taking the first steps to open up.
“…The Trump administration deservedly gets the blame for squandering a head start.”
I will once again repeat the comments that Dr Fauci…recognized as one of the world’s leading experts on infectious disease and has been an advisor to every U.S. president since Ronald Reagan said in mid February, Feb 19th to be exact. in an interview with USA Today.
“…Fauci doesn’t want people to worry about coronavirus, the danger of which is “just minuscule.” But he does want them to take precautions against the “influenza outbreak, which is having its second wave.”
and this comment a few days later in Feb,
“…“it’s a very, very low risk to the United States. … It isn’t something the American public needs to worry about or be frightened about. Because we have ways of preparing and screening of people coming in [from China].”
This is the advice that this experts were giving the president as far as mid to late Feb. You expected the president to leap into action in January after his advisors were telling him not to worry? Even a month later the presidential candidates never mentioned the virus in debates as late as Feb 25th.
“…for s**t-canning the department of the CDC that was responsible for addressing pandemics,”
Except he didn’t…the Pandemic Response Team was not connected to the CDC. The unit was established under the purview of the National Security Council. The Trump administration consolidated three separate directorates into one…the “counterproliferation and biodefense directorate” , eliminating overlap..which is common in the federal government. It is this reorganization that has been unfairly called firing, or s**t canning. And I can’t help but to wonder, what another federal bureaucratic agency doing duplicate work, would have made any difference anyway. My guess is not much.
Steve, I guess I’m in the “half a brain” camp. I won’t blame Trump for everything. However, I’m also in the anyone else but Trump camp. For the reasons you mentioned, and many more.
I agree with your assessment of Governor Newsom, although you certainly don’t need my agreement. I was occupied on other matters during his 2018 election, yet I did have the presence of mind to vote, and checked his box. I have been pleasantly surprised with his leadership during these times. In fact, I was noting this to my friend, whom I term my “Republican friend,” and she replied that she too thought he was doing a good job. So, I guess “smarmy” appearances can be deceiving.
What I especially appreciate, is his ability to rise above the fray. This in regard to Trump. Now isn’t the time. And it serves no real purpose in my mind, and it’s refreshing to not have to hear it from leadership. If only Trump could follow in that path?
Doug — It cracks me up that you say the interview with Dr. Fauci in USA Today was on Feb 19 “to be exact.” The interview was published on Feb 17. Your mischaracterization and cherry-picking gets worse from there, but rather than go through it all, I’ll just provide the link to the interview so others can decide if you’re faithfully parroting his message.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/02/17/new-coronavirus-what-dont-we-know-dr-anthony-fauci-q-a-opinion/4790996002/
But I can’t help but give one example. Fauci didn’t say that the danger of COVID-19 was “just miniscule.” He said that at that time in the United States, “‘…the danger of getting coronavirus now is just minusculely low.” And, “The risk of coronavirus in this country is still relatively low, but, as I said about the possibility of emerging into a pandemic, this could change. As of today, on the 17th of February, the risk is really relatively low.”
That’s what he was telling us and Trump in mid-February, when the caseload here was just 15. So of course that was factual—your chance of contracting the disease in the United States in mid-February was vanishingly small.
We had our first confirmed case on the same day as South Korea. Their government jumped all over it while Trump denied and dawdled. As of today Korea has had 252 COVID-19 deaths, and their deaths per day have been dropping since March 1. As of today we have 68,276 deaths, and we have a long way to go. We have 4.25% of the world’s population and 28% of the deaths.
He had the head start that Fauci described, and he squandered it. He talked about how it would “magically disappear.” And then when it started taking a turn for the worse, he made his first address to the nation about the pandemic, and was so bad that investors panicked and the stock market crashed the next morning.
You can try to white-wash this, Doug, but it’s not going to work. Trump royally fucked this up. Had he not, we’d likely all be back to some semblance of normal life by now.
Linda — I still haven’t really warmed to Newsom—maybe it’s the slicked-back hair—but I think he’s doing a pretty good job. I certainly don’t think he’s a train wreck like Trump.
Former President George Bush put out a short video message the other day urging Americans to put aside partisanship and come together in this time of crisis. Trump’s response was to tweet: Why weren’t you calling for everyone to put aside partisanship during the impeachment HOAX?
Because of course, every goddamned thing is about him. And every positive, hopeful sentiment has to be shat upon.
Those who look at the current COVID crisis and conclude it’s over and we can open up and get back to work are merely providing more evidence of Dr. Van Kirk’s excellent piece on how confirmation bias works. You can also Google Motivated Reasoning and find another way to look at how people deny science in favor of their non-scientific (usually right-wing but not always) ideological opinions. If you want to find evidence to state that we are over-reacting, you can but as others have stated here, I prefer to go with the precautionary principle. We wear seat belts, buy insurance, and adopt good health practices not because we know we are going to die if we don’t but because we are pragmatic and understand that it is intelligent to exercise appropriate levels of care. Ultimately it comes down to values. Those of us in favor of the lockdown understand that the ultimate value is the protection and preservation of human life. Those in favor of opening up the economy are comfortable with other people they don’t know dying as long as they can improve their financial prospects. Regarding Sweden it is not fair to compare. Nearly half of Swedish people are single adults living completely alone. Better comparisons are Vietnam, an extremely poor country where large families live close together like NY but they practiced contact tracing from the start and prevented the virus from getting out of control. Pay attention to the per capita deaths in the US and where it is rising fastest and you will find the highest rates in the northeast states where they did not lock down as quickly as California. Look at the rate of infection in meat-packing plants or anywhere people work closely together and use science to conclude that opening up too soon means people will die. Those who want to open up simply do not care about increasing death rates until it hits them or someone they love. Until the owners of the meat-packing plants put their children on the factory floor, the plants should all close down. We can all live without meat. It is absolutely non-essential and the sooner we stop eating it the better. Regarding house arrest characterization, that is a joke. This is completely voluntary. Those who care about their health and the lives of their family and others are being careful. But not everyone is. I am continuing my psychology practice so I drive into the office each day to talk to my clients on the phone and I have noticed life is continuing. There is very little evidence of massive house arrest practices. People continue to gather and interact according to their comfort level and concern. A colleague of mine continues to see some clients face-to-face. We are all free to choose how we respond to this unprecedented crisis that is going to be with us for many months and maybe years. I am grateful that I live in a community that shut down early and is still being careful. And grateful to those who continue to support science here and elsewhere.
The scientific debate on whether novel coronavirus spreads widely via aerosol transmission is still out. In ICU units with COVID-19 patients, it appears to spread as an aerosol which is why N95 masks are required for healthcare workers in such ICUs. In addition to aerosol transmission, COVID-19 can spread through water droplets that come out of our mouths during during face-to-face conversations. Wearing an N95 respirator in this situation protects you from other people’s droplets and them from yours. The N95 gives you some semblance of control while making essential runs to the grocery store and pharmacy. Any serious plan to reopen the economy must include the provision of N95 masks or better to all citizens. Yes, even little tiny ones for the babies.
I very seldom eat meat but am neither vegetarian nor vegan. I’ll die if I go without food but the same can’t be said if I go without meat. Neither would I die if it were flipped and there was a problem with vegetables, grains, nuts and fruits and I had to temporarily go without those things and only eat meat (at least not right away and unless I had some meat-aversion health condition). Workers being forced to choose between the very real threat of losing their lives or causing the loss of life of others and keeping their jobs in an unprotected work environment is the stuff of documentaries that we watch in horror asking ourselves “How was that ever allowed to happen?” You want to go back to work? I want you to go back to work as well but lets not forget as we’re working towards that goal that many of the same people “living in small trailers” that some here allude to when comparing levels of economic inequality and hardships are the very same people who are typically most adversely impacted when being forced to stay employed or risk losingbhealth ins., retirement, etc. benefits (if they have any) and facing possible ineligibility for unemployment due to not being laid off.
This is a deadly virus with still many unknowns that doesn’t care about you or me. How ‘bout we care about each other no matter our age and work together towards opening up our economy while not vilifying measures being implemented to try and save one another’s lives. The safety measures aren’t our enemies; the virus is our enemy. So far, thoseec not being willing to do so for one another but instead saying “Kumbayf’ingya, everyone for themselves” hasn’t worked out well for humanity as a whole. Personally I’m mentally exhausted from the feelings of anger and fear of and towards others that I’ve been feeling. It solves nothing and makes me sad. It’s too much.
Is there no limit to your willingness to sacrifice to save a life? If you’re content forfeiting 365 days of freedom to extend a stranger’s life by 1 day, how about 2 years of your freedom for that same 1 day of a stranger’s life? 5 years? 10? Surely you wouldn’t give up a lifetime of your freedom so I can live 1 more day?
Or is a 1 year sacrifice somehow less objectionable when 365 people each lose 1 day of their freedom to extend that stranger’s life 1 day?
Miss Anne — Just out of curiosity, what percentage of your tenants are currently not paying their rent?
I’m wondering how much of your ire is about liberty, and how much it’s really about filthy lucre.
0%. All paid April and I have received no indication anyone will be late or insufficient in May. If anything, the lockdown has been a boon for business by dramatically lowering the cost of & delays in construction. The main COVID related headaches stem from homebound tenants getting on each others’ nerves and feuding over cooking odors and unruly children.
But I do think lucre is subset of liberty (e.g. an uncompensated ban on evictions is clearly an unlawful government taking in violation of the 5th amendment).
Nice! Not what I’d have predicted. You must have a select group of tenants.
AT, since the replies to comments here don’t always follow in sequential order I have no idea if you’re addressing me personally with your question but I’ll address it from my perspective. I don’t agree with what I consider to be your use of over-the- top hyperbole describing “daily loss of freedom…” “house arrest” as an argument which means I also have no answer to your question as to what sacrifice I am or am not willing for myself or others to make in those regards. You basically asking the same question repeatedly while using different stats for different things as your barometer is not going to change my mind as far as how I feel about your rhetoric. Others may of course feel differently than I.
Is there any limit to the number of “man-hours” under Newsom’s stay at home order that you find acceptable to prevent Covid19 from taking 1 man-hour of life expectancy?
Or is your objection primarily with the life expectancy metric – do you value equally the loss of a 85 year-old & a 25 year-old?
If you’re asking me who I would choose had I been forced to make the horrific choice between killing my 87 yr old mother (no longer with us) or my 25 yr old daughter my answer to you is that in this Covid-19 scenario that is not a choice I’d need to make. It would however, be a Russian-roulette risk you’d be exposing them to if they needed to be in a grocery store, etc every time you were around them and others if you weren’t also social distancing and wearing PPE. Since I have no idea if you’re doing that (are you doing that?) and since it’s a false dilemma, I find your entire line of questioning to be moot. Finally, other than simply arguing for argument’s sake I imagine I’m probably fairly silly to be arguing the value of human life with a MissAnnThrope.
While I’m sorry for the inconvenience of social distancing some here are complaining about so vociferously, I am far more concerned about the restrictions on “freedom” of those that are being forced to risk their lives every day at their “essential” jobs without even the bare minimum safety standards being enforced.
I suggest all read the story below:
” ‘We’re modern slaves’: How meat plant workers became the new frontline in Covid-19 war
Workers interviewed by the Guardian describe pattern of alleged negligence at plants run by some of America’s largest food manufacturers
…At least 20 meat packing workers have died from the virus nationwide and 5,000 have become infected, according to union officials, as close to two dozen facilities closed – some temporarily – over past few weeks.
In interviews with poultry workers in Georgia, Arkansas and Mississippi a similar pattern of alleged negligence, secrecy and mismanagement emerged at facilities operated by some of the largest food manufacturers in America. The poultry industry, already the target of a sweeping civil lawsuit describing a systematic effort to depress wages among a workforce that is largely immigrants or people of color, found itself the beneficiary of an executive order issued by Donald Trump on Tuesday.
The president invoked the Defense Production Act (DPA) to mandate meat processing plants stay open during the pandemic….
The move, which essentially labels meat production an essential service, also offers further measures to protect the industry from legal liability should more workers contract the virus…”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/02/meat-plant-workers-us-coronavirus-war
Ed Marek, exactly.
As we all should have expected, Trump and his flunkies are now seizing on the pandemic as an excuse to take away the legal rights of ALL american workers:
“White House and Congress clash over liability protections for businesses as firms cautiously weigh virus reopening plans
McConnell says liability protections for businesses are a requirement; Pelosi and Democrats say no…
Congressional leaders are girding for a huge fight over the reentry of millions of Americans to the workplace, with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) insisting that employers be shielded from liability if their workers contract the coronavirus. He appears to have the backing of top White House officials.
Democratic leaders have declared they will oppose such blanket protections, putting Washington’s power brokers on opposite sides of a major issue that could have sweeping implications for health care and the economy in the coming months….
for McConnell, one of the biggest concerns appears to be the threat of lawsuits against businesses. He has described the potential for a “second pandemic” of litigation, and he and House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) say discussion of liability protections will be “absolutely essential.” Democratic leaders, however, have not expressed any interest in advancing such protections at a time when workers are risking their health by laboring at manufacturing jobs, grocery stores, hospitals and other businesses that have stayed open throughout the crisis…”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2020/05/03/congress-coronavirus-legal-liability/
Those large meat packers are owned by Chinese and Brazilian companies and their problems have been going on for decades. Employees have been illegals or barely legal workers, proven by countless ICE raids, and those workers have been afraid to complain for fear of being deported, once again proven by ICE raids. COVI is bringing out decades long problems, and hate, that has been festering for decades and centuries.
The biggest contradiction being said is “We are all in this together” when in reality it is “We are all in this but not together”.
What is a “barely legal worker”.
Just asking as I’ve never heard that term before.
One of the questions I have is if the president can force these workers to return to work and they refuse, can he revoke their green card under the guise of being an immigrant and not being employed?
Trumps DPA concerning meat producing plants seems to fall in line with his anti immigration, racism and hatred policies.
Barely legal workers are those who are in the country but have over stayed their work permit so I guess you could say they are technically as illegal as one who has no work permit. And the problems they are having at the meat factories long preceded Trump’s arrival. The ICE raid in 2009 at Swift in Grand Island, when I lived 40 miles away, was on Obama’s watch.
I think a better question to ask is can workers be denied unemployment when their companies go back to work and the workers refuse because of safety issues?
The workers here at the meat packing plant in Phoenix are protesting and saying they will walk out if safety issues are not met. President Trump will be here May 5th, maybe he will address that among other things.
And anti immigration, racism and hatred have been here long before President Trump. Will those issues be solved now or just kicked down the road for future generations to deal with is what seems to be the policies of the left and the right. They both make promises and then don’t keep them.
Days of Freedom. I lost my days of freedom 48 years ago to a girl from Hayfork.
Doug Cook May 3, 2020 at 9:51 am
“…The Trump administration deservedly gets the blame for squandering a head start.”
I will once again repeat the comments that Dr Fauci…recognized as one of the world’s leading experts on infectious disease and has been an advisor to every U.S. president since Ronald Reagan said in mid February, Feb 19th to be exact. in an interview with USA Today.
“…Fauci doesn’t want people to worry about coronavirus, the danger of which is “just minuscule.” But he does want them to take precautions against the “influenza outbreak, which is having its second wave.”
and this comment a few days later in Feb,
“…“it’s a very, very low risk to the United States. … It isn’t something the American public needs to worry about or be frightened about. Because we have ways of preparing and screening of people coming in [from China].”
This is the advice that this experts were giving the president as far as mid to late Feb…”
No, it is not. You are simply using the standard trumpist tactic of the constant repetition of a lie in an attempt to give it an aura of “thruthiness”.
The article you mis-referenced above was intended to advise the American public at a time when Sino-Phobia was sweeping the nation, the first paragraph of which is copied below:
“The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention will be testing for the coronavirus in people in five major cities who show up at clinics with flu-like symptoms but who test negative for the seasonal varieties.
If that testing shows the virus has slipped into the country in places federal officials don’t know about, “we’ve got a problem,” Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told USA TODAY’s Editorial Board Monday {Feb/17}.
Short of that, Fauci says skip the masks unless you are contagious, don’t worry about catching anything from Chinese products and certainly don’t avoid Chinese people or restaurants…”
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/02/17/nih-disease-official-anthony-fauci-risk-of-coronavirus-in-u-s-is-minuscule-skip-mask-and-wash-hands/4787209002/
It was the trump’s job to listen to the advice not just from Fauci, but from all of our intelligence agencies and public health authorities which produced innumerable threat reports, and to give the orders only he could, to prepare the nation for the coming pandemic.
Trump failed.
All Americans will suffer needlessly due to trump’s negligence.
Some only the inconvenience of temporary restrictions on their freedom.
But millions of Americans will suffer much worse. Death, severe illness, or deprivation due to the economic crises that is just beginning, another inevitable result of trump’s incompetence.
I did not mis-reference the article. I will reference another press release from the CDC on January 21st, “…based on current information, the immediate health risk from 2019-nCoV to the general American public is considered low at this time. and, “… While the immediate risk of this new virus to the American public is believed to be low at this time, there are simple daily precautions that everyone should always take. It is currently flu and respiratory disease season, and CDC recommends getting vaccinated, taking everyday preventive actions to stop the spread of germs, and taking flu antivirals if prescribed.”
Hindsight is 20-20, isn’t it Mr Marek? On Jan 26th in a radio interview, Dr Fauci said again, “…”The American people should not be worried or frightened by this. It’s a very, very low risk to the United States, It isn’t something that the American public needs to worry about or be frightened about.” The Director of the CDC agreed with the Dr, adding later, “… saying that at that time in January the information coming out of China suggested “they were pretty certain that this was not transmitted human to human.”
I’m not criticizing the CDC, that was the information as we knew back in January. We now know they were wrong. But you can’t make the leap that the president was neglectful back then knowing what we know now. Heck, how many Trump haters criticized the president for his China travel ban? Biden called it hysterical and xenophobic.
“…all of our intelligence agencies and public health authorities which produced innumerable threat reports” Where are those reports? Go back into archives in January and show me the reporting about the threat of Covid-19. I certainly can’t find any. Impeachment was all we were talking about in January. There were two Democrat debates in Feb, with the no questions about the virus asked in the first debate on Feb 17th and one question about it on the Feb 25th debate, lasting less than 2 minutes. So when you mention innumerable reports..you are going to have to show me.
Could we have reacted faster? Yes, of course. But I blame the burdensome slow federal bureaucracy rather than the president. Our government sucks in dealing rapidly with these types of crises. It wouldn’t have been any better under a President Clinton, or god help us, President Biden.
Mr. Cook:
You begin your comment with one lie:
“I did not mis-reference the article…”
And end it with another:
“…It wouldn’t have been any better under a President Clinton, or god help us, President Biden.”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/14/trump-coronavirus-alerts-disinformation-timeline
’27 February
“It’s going to disappear,” Trump says in a White House briefing. “One day it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”’
Are you seriously asserting that any previous Presidents, or for that matter ANY mentally competent adult, would have made the statement above (or for that matter, produced any of the two dozen other examples of trump’s gross incompetence given in the article) while in the office of President of the United States?
And between those two lies, you have merely repeated your usual laundry list of false, misleading and/or insignificant non-sequiturs to support your empty defense of our pathetic-loser-in-chief, all of which have been adequately refuted on this forum already.
Tell you what, I don’t intend to waste more time on them all, but if you want to choose the ONE of your statements between those two that you think most conclusively shows trump displayed a minimal level of competence in his office, I’ll try to take the time to explain to you, yet again, why it does not.
Dear Ed Marek,
Well, obviously I’m not Doug Cook. However, I just wanted to thank you for taking up the Doug Cook challenge. So many have gone before you. You are a very brave soul indeed. It does get frustrating, however. So when, or if, you hit that brick wall, know you have supporters who would be willing to help. Please let me know if sending tea would help. A beer, a whiskey, a vegetable? Even a box of candy. Although, it’s ironic that I learn from the contrast, with your measurable replies.
Linda, I bailed from the ANC for awhile, I got tired of the personal jabs and insults directed towards me but I have been tipping my toe back in the water as of late, after hearing of Bruce being attacked by a member.
My question to you is…what was the point of the comment you just made? How does another insult from you advance any conversation? In all of the comments I have ever made on here, I have never made a disparaging comment or an ad hominem attack towards anyone that posts. I re-read my comment towards Mr Marek, perhaps you can explain why Ed needs help? What was wrong with my comment? Because you disagree with it? That I have the audacity to support our president ? That I ask of proof or evidence to support a claim?
I’m sorry that I oh so offend you and frustrate you to the point that you need to make ‘snarky’ comments towards me. I have been debating politics for most of my adult life, and have rarely had to deal with this type of behavior. When I decided to come back to ANC (and yes, I will renew my subscription), I decided that there were a couple of folks that I will not respond to, although it appears that one of them might have been banished already.
If you don’t care about my comments, you don’t have to read them, you don’t have to respond to them…and you certainly don’t have to toss insults towards me. We are all grown ups here…I try to be as respectful as possible, and I kind of expect the same. Is that too much to ask?
Doug, while you are back I have to admit that when you were manager at Cattlemens I ate there and the food was good and so was the service. We sometimes met friends for a pre dinner drink in the welcoming bar and service was good. And the only people who laid hands on me were students I had known in the SUHSD schools as a friendly gesture not for healing.
Thanks Bruce…I loved working there. we were known by upper management for having the best staff in the chain with the lowest turnover. The one thing I took pride in was my ability to hire the right people, and because we were known for being a great place to work for, we were never short on qualified applicants. I’m glad I left when I did before it became increasingly difficult in this state to run a business. What’s great about the company is that about 10 years ago I hired a young man as a dishwasher, great kid who showed a lot of initiative , that young man who started out washing dishes for me is now the General Manager of the restaurant. I’m pretty proud of that.
Doug — You left ANC of your own volition about 30 minutes after I stated that I was taking a temporary Doug time-out. I didn’t ask anyone else to do the same. I just said that I was increasingly finding it maddening to deal with your rhetorical tactics (I’m not going to elaborate on that here). In my frustration was becoming increasingly rude , and I needed a break.
I was bummed with your decision because of the timing—I’ve never meant to drive anyone off. I’ve never sought out echo chambers. I’m glad Miss Anne is back after an even longer absence, I’m glad that Bruce’s estrangement was short-lived, and I’m glad you’re back.
So here’s my long-overdue apology: I regret posting things that were insulting. Sorry, Doug.
But understand that Linda isn’t suggesting that you lack civility, so there’s no need to defend yourself on that metric. She’s referring to that rhetorical bag of tricks of yours, and the sense of futility that it engenders. You’ve told us that you have a debate team background. I don’t. So if what you do gets scored as winning in a formal debate, go ahead and mark it down. You certainly got me to tap out once.
“We are all grown ups here”
Yo, Doug. Speak for yourself. 🙂
You’re right, Hal…that was a bit of a stretch on my part.
Thanks for the offer, but I’m well-stocked at the moment.
I have been known to beg for real tomatoes in the summer, though…
A previous persistent plague, that of the “Tall Rats” of Northern California, forced me to give up my garden some years ago.
Cook will get the last word, of course, his time obviously being of little value to him, or anyone else.
But I hope at least a few readers here will be warned of cook’s lack of integrity, and learn to not take seriously anything he writes in the future.
The comment above was in reply to:
Linda Cooper May 3, 2020 at 10:58 pm
Dear Ed Marek,..
Still can’t seem to get some of my posts where I try to.
“…But I hope at least a few readers here will be warned of cook’s lack of integrity”
Perhaps you can explain exactly why you think I have a “lack of integrity”, Mr Marek. Because I have a differing political opinion than yours? That I have the audacity to refute and correct false or biased statements? That I ex[press my opinion on matters? How is that having a lack of integrity? I assume we have never met, and I doubt you know me or my sense of integrity. I have been nothing but respectful to you, iI disagree with most of what you say, but instead of tossing insults…I respond with facts. It has always been my contention that when you feel the need to insult someone in a debate…you have lost.
Mr Marek, you seemed to have completely ignored the premise of my comment which was a response to YOUR comment about the president squandering a headstart. This has been a common theme with Trump haters. That is why I have done a deep dive into news reports and press releases from the CDC from back in January and February. I have asked many of you to give me some examples of the president ignoring advice from back in January…I have yet to get a response. Just a lot of changing the subject as you did with your latest comment. The day after WHO declared Covid-19 a global emergency, the administration took action. You can’t blame stifling regulations on the president. Let’s blame the slow moving bureaucracy of the FDA and other governmental agencies.
Yes, the president says stupid things almost daily, one of the reasons I did not vote for the man…but I look at his actions more than his words, and I look how the media consistently misrepresents what he actually says. But that isn’t what my comment dealt with…it dealt with the advice the president was getting from his experts back in January and February. You believe he was ignoring dire warnings, my contention is that he was indeed listening to the experts, the experts that weren’t too concerned about the virus back in January. If you can show me proof otherwise…feel free.
Once again…hindsight is 20-20.. It is very easy to say with what we know now, that we should have moved faster. But we didn’t know in January the depth of the virus, did we?
Steve, (I’m just replying here out of order because I can’t figure out the order, ha.)
Once again, I agree. I get it. It was Newsom’s “slicked back hair” that got to me for sure. I really don’t like it when those judgements on my part annoy me, but there I have it.
And indeed, the bar has been lowered. My expectations are lowered. Which makes me sad. Would I rather have the train wreck? No. Never again. And, yes. Amazes me that “he” gets away with even criticizing a trying to be supportive George Bush video. To clarify, I typically use a pronoun for Trump. Just because I don’t want to enter his name. Although, maybe that would make Doug Cook happy, because I’m only resenting a pronoun? (It’s been a tough day.)
I entered the world of Zoom today for the first time today.With my “family.” That’s in quotes for a reason. Some of them are big right wingers. To give credit, everyone was holding back. Give credit where credit is due? It was a laugh a chuckle when the nice niece-in-law, who coordinated the event, introduced the challenges she has with teaching on line. Nah, no response. Because “they” basically resent teachers who get pensions. I could go on.
I’ve come to the conclusion that for those of us who survive this virus physically, that there is more in store. I’m trying to anticipate beyond growing vegetables. Dear husband was in the post office mailing a birthday card (it required extra postage) and there was almost a riot. The line was long, the post office window closed, while folks were still in line. My husband concluded that they must have been short staffed. Uh, oh, maybe folks were sick? So far, in Butte County, 16 cases and nobody died. Husband’s research.
Anyway, I continue to wish Shasta County and the folks on a News Cafe well.
Linda, we wish you well, too. Hang in there. It’s been a rough few years for everyone, but some – like you – have had more than their share, what with the Carr and Camp Fires, and Snowmageddon.
You’re right about this what awaits us all if we survive the virus. Hang onto your hat. Deep breaths. And thanks for being here.
How many agree with me that trump’s demanding the “reopening” of the American economy, without disclosing to the American people the expected consequences, clearly falls within the category of “High Crime and Misdemeanors”?
“…The Trump administration projects about 3,000 daily deaths by early June.
As President Trump presses for states to reopen their economies, his administration is privately projecting a steady rise in the number of cases and deaths from the coronavirus over the next several weeks, reaching about 3,000 daily deaths on June 1, according to an internal document obtained by The New York Times, nearly double from the current level of about 1,750.
The projections, based on government modeling pulled together in chart form by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, forecast about 200,000 new cases each day by the end of the month, up from about 25,000 cases now.
The numbers underscore a sobering reality: While the United States has been hunkered down for the past seven weeks, not much has changed. And the reopening to the economy will make matters worse…”
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/04/us/coronavirus-updates.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage#link-7b42d0f5
While the trump regime refuses to disclose its models to the American people, a very good summary of the range of models publicly reported is available below:
“UPDATED MAY 4, 2020, AT 12:21 PM
Where The Latest COVID-19 Models Think We’re Headed — And Why They Disagree
By Ryan Best and Jay Boice
Models predicting the potential spread of the COVID-19 pandemic have become a fixture of American life. Yet each model tells a different story about the devastation to come, making it hard to know which one is “right.” But COVID-19 models aren’t made to be unquestioned oracles. They’re not trying to tell us one precise future, but rather the range of possibilities given the facts on the ground.
One of their more sober tasks is predicting the number of Americans who will die due to COVID-19. FiveThirtyEight — with the help of the Reich Lab at the University of Massachusetts Amherst — has assembled six models published by infectious disease researchers to illustrate possible trajectories of the pandemic’s death toll. In doing so, we hope to make them more accessible, as well as highlight how the assumptions underlying the models can lead to vastly different estimates. Here are the models’ U.S. fatality projections for the coming weeks…”
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/covid-forecasts/?ex_cid=rrpromo
Mr. Marek, You start out with a false premise, again, “… trump’s (sic) demanding the “reopening” of the American economy, without disclosing to the American people the expected consequences…”
Nowhere can I see the president ‘demanding’ the reopening of America. What I see is is measured guidelines proposed by the administration. The president said that healthy citizens would be able to return to work “as conditions allow”. He said Americans would continue to be called upon to maintain social distancing measures and to stay home if they are unwell.
What did the president say to the governors? Did he ‘demand’ that they reopen? No, what he said was, “…”You’re going to call your own shots. You’re going to be running it, we’re going to be helping you,” Doesn’t sound like much of a demand to me.
Look at the three phases of reopening that are guidelines for the states and their governors. They appear to me to be reasonable guidelines. Again, nowhere is there a ‘demand’ to reopen. There is absolutely nothing wrong to be looking at the economy, it is something that can’t be ignored. The administration came up with guidelines, featuring 3 separate phases, with 3 separate measured outcomes if certain parameters are met. ..and you want to call THAT high crimes and misdemeanors? Your unreasonable bias is showing Mr Merik.
Mr. Kook:
I used the word “demand” accurately, as does the news report below:
“…President Donald Trump is demanding state officials “liberate” Minnesota, Michigan, and Virginia amid the coronavirus pandemic, after saying hours earlier it would be up to governors to reopen their states…”
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-twitter-today-coronavirus-states-reopen-governors-cuomo-a9471326.html
The rest of your comment is just your usual drivel, illustrating the quote above’s observation that trump cannot be trusted to maintain consistency to any statement or in any position he takes.
It is horrifying that trump and his entire regime display the same economic illiteracy as you do.
Does anyone actually believe “Trump says the country must reopen and get the economy going” in any way will be the accurate description of a nation where a deadly pandemic is increasing in the total number of infections and fatalities by a factor of about eight times every month, as the trump pandemic model reportedly predicts will occur, if we follow trumps insane advice, as reported here by his organ of propaganda?
https://www.foxbusiness.com/business-leaders/trump-says-the-country-must-reopen-and-get-the-economy-going
Is it that hard for you to understand why taking action to ensure we have many millions of sick and dead Americans will definitely NOT benefit the economy?
The left wing source you linked was the one that used the word.demand’. let’s go to the what the president actually said, as reported in your link,
“…”I think they’d listen to me. They seem to be protesters that like me and respect this opinion, and my opinion is the same as just about all of the governors,” Mr Trump said Thursday night when asked about the open-up protests. They all want to open. Nobody wants to stay shut, but they want to open safely. So do I. But we have large sections of the country right now that can start thinking about opening,” he added….”So that will be a governor’s choice, and we’ll have no problem with it.”
Just because a heavily biased source says it was a demand…doesn’t make it so. Have you read the administrations 3 phase reopening guidelines? With the operative word ‘guidelines’…not demands.
Matt, thank you so much for taking the time to share your data with us here at ANC. It’s your first time to submit something, so welcome!
And you’re doing a great job keeping up with the conversation. That’s sometimes the hardest part about having an article on ANC.
We appreciate you!
Take care, and stay safe. You’re welcome back here any time.
“California will move into Stage 2 of the state’s reopening plan by the end of this week, Governor Gavin Newsom announced during a press conference Monday.
“On Friday I said we were days not weeks from announcing modifications to the stay-at-home order, and today we are announcing our efforts to update the stay-at-home guidelines and begin the process of moving to Stage 2,” he said.
The new guidelines for Stage 2 — which allow for the return of retail, manufacturing, and other “low-risk” businesses — will be released Thursday, and businesses can start reopening Friday if new physical-distancing measures are implemented.
“As early as by end of this week, you will have the capacity as retailer to begin to reopen for pickup: clothing, bookstores, music shops, sporting goods, florists as Mother’s Day approaches and other sectors within that retail sector,” Newsom said…”
https://www.sfgate.com/news/editorspicks/article/California-reopen-Stage-2-Gavin-Newsom-stay-home-15245722.php
Hopefully, Newsom has more complete and up-to-date data, showing even more progress in California than you can see here:
https://covidactnow.org/us/ca
Newsom may (to some extent) be caving into public pressure, relaxing to stage 2 a bit sooner than advisable.
But, given the progress California has made, and facing the potential of massive civil disobedience, I wouldn’t judge him too harshly, myself.
My understanding is that mask use where required is near universal in most of California by now, which should mean little increase in infections from moving to stage 2 in those regions.
Too bad we can’t say the same for North California, in my experience.
Interesting reading your inconsistent statements… you so easily criticize the president for wanting to reopen the economy…but give Gov Newsom a pass on his desire to move into phase 2.
“…But, given the progress California has made, and facing the potential of massive civil disobedience, I wouldn’t judge him (Newsom) too harshly, myself.”
Why not? Why is Newsom’s decision any different than what President Trump’s guidelines say? Gov News0m is following the administration’s guidelines. What’s the difference? Oh yeah, Newsom is a Democrat.
Doug — First of all, Newsom issued his 3-stage reopening plan (14 April) two days before Trump issued his (16 April). Newsom isn’t following Trump’s guidelines. Governors had started issuing their own guidelines in the absence of a Trump plan, so the White House rushed theirs out. It’s no surprise Trump’s plan reflects what was already out there.
Second, Newsom’s plan is based on performance criteria—it has no timeline. Trump’s has a schedule. Trump, owing to his impatience, is more comfortable with schedules than performance.
Third, Newsom has said that local areas can work up their own standards for reopening that vary from his. He’s said that the Bay Area can continue to exercises a more cautious reopening as they see fit, and that rural areas can reopen more quickly—the caveat is that they not endanger everyone else. Trump initially said that all reopening decisions are his alone, then punted all the actual decisions to the governors, so as to shirk responsibility.
COVI testing is up in Arizona and the number of cases has risen, no surprise there. But for the second day in a week there were no COVI deaths in Arizona which gives a strong recommendation to reopen business.
President Trump will be here today and we will see who gets the credit for this.
He’s there to visit a manufacturing plant that retooled to produce more N95 masks. It’ll be interesting to see if he wears one himself, or what he’ll have to say about the need to wear them. My guess is that there’ll be a lot of word-salad talk—but we may be able to pick out something about now having enough masks for front-line workers. And of course, he’ll congratulate himself.
Interesting- Fauci to testify before U.S. Senate, not House, on virus response
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-fauci/fauci-to-testify-before-u-s-senate-not-house-on-virus-response-idUSKBN22H234
I think that is a good move, Gary. There is no doubt that appearing before the House would be counter productive and heavily politicized, which is what we do not need right now. The time for the House, especially an appropriations committee, to investigate the government’s response is after they are done responding,,,not during the middle of the response. Perhaps a better question would be, why do Congressional Democrats want to pull one of our top scientists off the job of fighting Covid-19 during the middle of the fight to talk about appropriations?
I’m sorry, this just seems like a Democratic political game when the country should be pulling together. The Congressional hearings are not going to result in anything helping the covid-19 response. They’re just going to distract Dr Fauci. It’s just completely obvious that the House only knows how to investigate Trump, and they’ve forgotten how to do anything else. The House has been absent from Washington for over a month…and this is what is important when they come back to work?
At this stage, I think you may be right, Doug. But later, House members should have a chance to ask the hard questions in terms of timing, consequences and what the numbers would look like now had the administration taken official warnings and acted six weeks earlier- when they were advised to.
Doug Cook,
So it’s acceptable to “pull Dr. Fauci off the job” to testify to Trump-supportive Republicans in the Senate, but the Democratic-controlled House shouldn’t have the same opportunity? This is nothing but another of Trump’s many cover-ups.
In what way are Republicans “pulling the country together”? The Trump presidency has been ALL about pitting one group against another, and demonizing nearly everyone but white Christian nationalists. And now he’s egging on the heavily armed thugs (his supporters) who are showing up at state capitals demanding that the country immediately be thrown wide open. He refers to these thugs as “very good people” – which is the same thing he said about the Charlottesville Nazis.
Those who advocate tolerating an increased numbers of COVID-19 infections as a trade-off for increased economic activity should keep in mind that the likelihood of viral mutations increases with the number of infections we allow to occur.
This disease could get even worse as a result of our apathy, and the story below suggests it may have already.
“Scientists say a now-dominant strain of the coronavirus appears to be more contagious than original
MAY 5, 20204 AM
Scientists have identified a new strain of the coronavirus that has become dominant worldwide and appears to be more contagious than the versions that spread in the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic, according to a new study led by scientists at Los Alamos National Laboratory.
The new strain appeared in February in Europe, migrated quickly to the East Coast of the United States and has been the dominant strain across the world since mid-March, the scientists wrote.
In addition to spreading faster, it may make people vulnerable to a second infection after a first bout with the disease, the report warned.
The 33-page report was posted Thursday on BioRxiv, a website that researchers use to share their work before it is peer reviewed, an effort to speed up collaborations with scientists working on COVID-19 vaccines or treatments. That research has been largely based on the genetic sequence of earlier strains and might not be effective against the new one…
Scientists at major organizations working on a vaccine or drugs have told The Times that they are pinning their hopes on initial evidence that the virus is stable and not likely to mutate the way influenza virus does, requiring a new vaccine every year. The Los Alamos report could upend that assumption…”
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-05-05/mutant-coronavirus-has-emerged-more-contagious-than-original
Yikes! Another good reason why stay-in-place orders should remain. I’m assuming “more transmissible” means the new mutated version may be airborne transmittable. If that’s the case, the six foot distance rule (to prevent spreading of droplets) would become somewhat useless against the new strain.
In addition it would make obtaining human essentials a lot more complicated and difficult for all. Everyone might have to wear no less than N95 rated masks.
On the other hand, isolation nearly wiped out native Americans and has left the Sentineli with weakened immune systems…
Anne Thrope,
Native Americans weren’t “isolated” – they were living freely on their CONTINENT when Europeans forced their diseases into that population.
The model that (formerly) was most frequently cited by trump and his minions has updated its forecast for the next three months:
“Researchers double U.S. COVID-19 death forecast, citing eased restrictions
NEW YORK (Reuters) – A newly revised coronavirus mortality model predicts nearly 135,000 Americans will die from COVID-19 by early August, almost double previous projections, as social-distancing measures for quelling the pandemic are increasingly relaxed, researchers said on Monday.
The ominous new forecast from the University of Washington’s Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME) reflect “rising mobility in most U.S. states” with an easing of business closures and stay-at-home orders expected in 31 states by May 11, the institute said.
“We expect that the epidemic in many states will now extend through the summer,” the IHME director, Dr. Christopher Murray, said in a statement.
The projections reinforced warnings from public health experts that a rising clamor to lift restrictions on commerce and social activities – in hopes of healing a ravaged economy – could exact a staggering cost in terms of human lives…
The IHME projections are presented as a statistical range of outcomes. The latest forecast predicts the cumulative number of U.S. deaths from COVID-19 will run from as few as 95,092 to as many as 242,890 by Aug. 4 – with 134,475 lives lost representing the most likely, middle ground.
By comparison, the previous revision issued on April 29 put the middle-case figure at 72,400 deaths, within a range between 59,300 and 114,200 fatalities…”
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa/researchers-double-u-s-covid-19-death-forecast-citing-eased-restrictions-idUSKBN22G1T3
The model (link below) projects California (fortunately) will still have a much lower rate than the nation as a whole, and have only:
“4,666 COVID-19 deaths projected by August 4, 2020”
https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/california
I don’t recall how much higher (if any) that number is than it was prior to Newsom’s partial-stage-two announcement.
Any “modeling” that was putting out these numbers –“previous revision issued on April 29 put the middle-case figure at 72,400 deaths”– as recently a 6 days ago, has virtually no standing or credibility AT ALL !
We went over 70 thousand TODAY. August 4th is 3 months OUT.
What are you even talking about? And WHY are you bothering?
As I said, zero credibility.
Models make their projections based on expected human behavior.
Of course, when trump announced he was prematurely abandoning the federal “social distancing” standards, the future infection and death rates of the USA had to be adjusted upwards dramatically.
Canada (AFAIK) is continuing a rational approach to reduce its pandemic, and the model reflects the rapid improvement that is therefore still expected to occur, with the pandemic essentially over by mid-June, with a fraction of the number of cases and (6,622 total “middle case”) deaths per-capita:
https://covid19.healthdata.org/canada
BTW, this remains one of the most optimistic of all the models, and we probably should expect the numbers of total infections and fatalities might well end up in the higher end of the wide ranges of the projections from this site.
Off topic but I’m guessing that those who are trying to fill Stillwater are groaning over seeing a large manufacturing company choosing to locate in Anderson.
Trump came, he saw, he conquered. Supporters far out numbered protestors outside Honeywell. While congratulating a company making face masks only the workers were wearing them, neither Trump nor Ducey were wearing them. Strangely Senator McSally did not appear to be there, at the airport or Honeywell. Maybe she was but all her ads show her wearing a mask so maybe she was.
At a round table conference after Trump reinforced his support for a border wall to stop the advance of COVI from Mexico into the US. Numbers do not support this as Arizona COVI cases are in the thousands while Sonora, just across the border has less than a thousand. But I can’t imagine the most ardent Trump hater believes Mexico is telling the truth about COVI in their country.
Actually Senator McSally was there and President Trump thanked her for all she is doing especially in getting aid to the Navajo Nation.
Trump will win reelection because the Dems are now fighting over who should be Biden’s VP choice and not focusing on down ballot contests. The only Dem focused on down ballot is Bloomfield as he makes his case to be the DNC front runner after 2020.
That is not defending Trump but pointing out the obvious.
Democrats have to be concerned about the bumbling messaging coming out of Biden’s mouth. He just can’t seem to have the ability to put a cognitive sentence together. His Covid-19 comments do not exactly instill a sense of confidence. Down ballot candidates are not going to want VP Biden to campaign for them. For the left, it won’t be enough just to nominate a woman VP candidate…it will have to be a woman of color, which means Kamala Harris or Stacey Abrams, either one would be a disaster for Biden.
It has been interesting watching the coverage of Biden’s alleged sex scandal. I try to be consistent and am wary of allegations that come out decades later no matter who it is. I am amused watching the media twist themselves into a pretzel in their coverage of a Democrat sex scandal and the difference between this one and Kavanaugh’s. The only real difference I see is Biden’s accuser has an on-the-record corroboration of her allegation from the 90’s… much more than Kavanaugh’s accuser had. But the media has not payed much attention to this..and Democrats have pretty much given Biden a pass and believe his story…so much for #MeToo.
President Trump’s poll numbers remain in the easily reelected realm. I guess that is why the big push from the left to blame the president for the Covid-19 crisis. The House will go back to the GOP, primarily because of the leadership of Pelosi who’s main goal right now is non stop investigation the president, and ignoring the work that needs to be done.
Doug Cook,
Biden’s occasional wanderings don’t hold a candle to Trump’s wildly delusional statements, his overwhelming number of outright lies, and his thoroughly debunked conspiracy theories. Not to mention his many open incitements to violence, and his labeling of Nazis and other domestic terrorists as “very good people”.
Biden’s single accuser (the other several women claimed he invaded their personal space – not that he committed sexual assault) had to backtrack on her accusation when it turned out the complaint she filed didn’t mention sexual assault at all. According to her at the time Biden told her she had nice legs, which is certainly inappropriate, but not criminal.
And of course there is no comparison between that situation and Trump’s gloating admission that he sexually assaulted countless women, and the 50 or so women who came forward (before and after) with extremely credible accounts of those assaults.
Patrecia…I notice your double standard is showing loud and clear. First of all, I am skeptical of this woman’s allegations. I doubt it happened. With that being said, Why were you so quick to accept the allegations from Christine Blasey Ford? You still call Justice Kavanaugh a ‘serial rapist’ with no evidence whatsoever, other than the allegation from one woman that had no corroboration. The other so called allegations? Well, the slimy lawyer that represented the other woman, Michael Avenatti is now in jail.
So please try to explain to me why Tara Reade is a liar and Christine Blasey Ford was telling the absolute truth? Biden has a history of making women feel uncomfortable…Kavanaugh does not. As I said, I am being consistent on me being skeptical of both allegations, you on the other hand was so quick to believe that Kavanaugh was guilty, but will willingly give Biden a pass. Perhaps a bit of hypocrisy?
Doug Cook,
Of course Trump prevented his FBI from investigating the MANY allegations of violence against women committed by Kavanaugh – including independent witnesses of both genders with no ax to grind who witnessed him slam women against walls and counters and grope them.
Whether that behavior is in the past, or whether he now just assaults women who – for one reason or another – are afraid to come forward (look what happened to Dr. Blasey) I don’t know. However, the Kavanaugh “investigation” was a joke. At least Biden is encouraging an independent investigation, which is a lot more than I can say for admitted serial sex criminal Trump (and BTW – I never called Kavanaugh a “serial rapist”).
The FBI did in fact investigate the allegations and found nothing. But nevertheless, you are believing Biden with no investigation at all. There were not MANY allegations against Kavenaugh. There were two others that were in no way credible, and their lawyer is sitting in prison right now. So I’ll ask again, why do you believe Biden so quickly without there being any investigation at all? Don’t you believe all women? Could it possibly be because the particular political party they belong to? Face it Patrecia, be intellectually honest…you are using a double standard in these 2 similar cases.
Doug Cook,
Trump limited the investigation to one week, and to just a handful of witnesses – as opposed to the more than 50 people who came forward with information related to Kavanaugh’s assaults on various women, publicly exposing himself, etc. As I said, the investigation was a joke.
Biden doesn’t have a history of sexually assaulting women, as Kavanaugh and Trump obviously do (in Trump’s case admitted to, and even bragged about). Another huge difference between Biden and Trump is that Trump is doing everything he can to destroyed the hard-won civil rights of women, and skew the legal system in favor of white male victimizers. One the other hand, Biden will protect women in general, and advance their rights. The choice is clear.
“…Biden doesn’t have a history of sexually assaulting women, as Kavanaugh and Trump obviously do”
You keep proving my point, Patrecia…My goodness. You believe Kavanaugh has a history because you believe Dr Ford. That is all the information you have. You have no evidence, Ramirez and Stenwicks claims were vetted and dismissed as not credible. But you beve Biden without question…hence the hypocrisy, especially in light of Biden’s creepiness towards women that you also dismiss. tThere has been no complaints about the judge in his adult life, there were no complaints from when he was a teenager. Just an 11th hour complaint from the Democrats.
There were not 50 people that confirmed Kavanaugh’s attacks…there were none at all. I’m simply pointing out your hypocrisy and political bias where you automatically dismiss a sexual assault claim by a Democrat.
Biden asked the Secretary of the Senate to “locate and make public” the complaint Reade allegedly made, if it exists. The secretary’s office responded that it can’t do so, owing to privacy concerns. Biden’s lawyer then asked if the secretary’s office could at least confirm whether or not a complaint had been filed, and if the alleged victim could request a copy of the complaint in order to release it. The secretary’s office responded that it can’t confirm or deny the existence of the complaint, and that it can’t release a copy of a complaint to anyone.
Interesting that it’s Biden’s attorney trying to get a copy of the complaint released, or at least verify its existence, instead of Reade’s attorney.
What Reade’s attorney *has* done is request that Biden’s speeches and position papers donated to the University of Delaware’s library for curation—to be made public two years following his retirement from public life—be unsealed. Those sealed materials would not include personnel files and documents like Reade’s alleged complaint, but they would be a gold mine for political opponents.
“He just can’t seem to have the ability to put a cognitive sentence together.”
The above sentence is fairly rich with irony all on its own. I can see a spellchecker changing “cogent” to “cognitive” as part of the reason for its awkwardness, though.
But the writer of the sentence is an everyday ardent defender of the most inarticulate, irrational, coarse, mentally ill chucklehead who’s inhabited the White House in our lifetimes. That irony is inescapable.
Where is her on-the-record collaboration that he assaulted her?
It wasn’t collaboration, it was corroboration. That a friend of Reade came out and confirmed that shortly after the alleged assault, Reade told her what occurred. That is pretty compelling. In addition, Reade’s mother called the Larry King show in the 90’s and complained about how nothing was done about her daughter’s assault. Much more corroboration than what Dr Ford had.
Doug Cook,
WRONG. Dr. Blasey had FOUR people who she told over the years about the Kavanaugh assault, and the FBI simply refused to interview the 50 people who came forward with information about Kavanaugh’s history of sexually assaulting and harassing women (as a young adult), per orders from Trump. That so-called “investigation” was nothing but a cover-up.
And of course Reade had to backtrack on her claim that she filed a complaint about the assault at the time, when it turned out her complaint said nothing about this alleged assault.
It is you and other right-wingers who are guilty of hypocrisy. An accuser against a Democrat must automatically be believed, no matter how unsubstantiated or uncredible. On the other a respected professional who accuses a Republican must be lying, no matter that dozens of witnesses need to be ignored to arrive at that conclusion.
You must not have read my comment. I clearly stated that I don’t readily believe the allegations against Biden. My comment dealt with the hypocrisy of the media and people like you who automatically give Biden a pass, but easily condemned Kavanaugh
And the song playing through the factory’s sound system? Live and Let Die.
What? No “Don’t Fear the Reaper”?
Someone said “Don’t worry, be happy” was in the running.
Did America just declare war in South America? Two former special forces operators (e.g. American contractors with “plausible deniability”) were captured attempting to oust disputed Venezuelan president Nicolas Maduro.
Be careful…they were not in any way connected to the government, they were paid mercenaries working for a private company. Looked like it was a real fluster cluck
Ok, I’m going to say it out loud. I’m really having trouble with the Democratic response to VP Biden’s accuser. I’m a registered Democrat. I can’t stand Trump and all he represents. With every cell in my body I’m hoping he doesn’t win the presidency this next election. Sadly, and I mean sadly, I think those who are calling out the hypocrisy of how Biden’s sexual abuse accuser is being treated are spot on. This is not our first rodeo, we know that it’s very common for victims of sexual abuse to sometimes wait years ( if not at all) to speak up publicly about their sexual abuse and even more likely if the accused is a powerful public figure. We know that sexual abuse comes in many forms and “degrees” but that when it is non-consensual it’s still considered sexual abuse. In this case the accuser DID tell people. Is it a stretch of imagination to consider that those she says she spoke with concerning the allegations are not recalling the conversations because if they do they will have been complicit in covering it up in a workplace setting? Like all of us she is an imperfect human being and therefore just as in Christine Blasey-Ford ‘s testimony there are inconsistencies. Something else we know that happens with sexual abuse survivors is that fight-or-flight instincts result in their memory of the details surrounding the assault being selective and varied. Trump has a history of unwanted sexual abuse accusers. Biden has a history of women saying he’s “creepily too touchy”. Neither of those things are secrets nor were they created in a vacuum. Neither of those things should be considered excusable or acceptable behavior by anyone, least of all a prominent political figure. So what do I do now? Weigh the “greater good” of a Biden presidency against the continued horror of a Trump presidency and ignore his accuser and her subsequent treatment by the same people who yelled “NO!” to Christine Blasey-Ford’s and Anita Hill’s (enter Joe Biden) treatment when they came forward? If this hypocritical “ blind-eye “ treatment of a sexual abuse accuser isn’t purely political then I don’t know what is. It gives me no joy whatsoever to be wrestling with this dilemma. I’ve tried my best to ignore it; to back-shelve it; after all I would obviously be voting for Biden over Trump. Thing is, oft times I can’t sleep at night worrying about 4 more years of Trump but neither can I, in good conscience, sleep well at night knowing that this woman, this accuser, may well be telling the truth and Democrats seem to be ok with it this time around. The very fact that the flip side of a Biden presidency is to me so extremely awful and damaging should tell you how much I hate feeling this way.
I agree, Tara Reade’s accusations against Biden seem about as credible as Ford’s against Kavanaugh which means there is plenty of hypocrisy on both sides of the isle.
AT, your partial agreement is recognized as is your intentional “women are not to be believed” snark.
I was once accused of having sex with a client in a mental health facility I was director of. It turns out the accuser had made the same accusation against a professor at Columbia several years earlier and was expelled for making a false accusation. Sometimes accusers lie. Tara Reade’s stories have not differed in minor ways; they have been grossly different. The director of an equine rescue center where Reade volunteered has said that Reade committed fraud against and stole from the center. Reade has also tweeted sexually charged love letters to Putin. Even Elizabeth Warren has said she believes Biden.
Candace, I’m confused. Did you think I was being sarcastic?
AT, yes, I did because of your “…just about as credible” remark. I took that to mean you thought neither were very credible. My apologies if I misunderstood you.
Ah, now I see where you were coming from. I intended to convey that I find the women’s accounts roughly of equal credibility in that I think they are likely telling the truth, but that discrepancies allow some doubt.
Candace, As I said, I tend to be skeptical of these allegations coming decades later out of nowhere., but since I have never been a woman that was sexually harassed…I am willing to keep an open mind. Like you, I was surprised and disappointed with the media reporting of this, yes…we are in the middle of a pandemic that is dominating the news, but the blatant political bias and them ignoring the allegations from the left is just too much.
With Biden’s history of creepy inappropriate touching of girls and women that is well known…how can anyone just completely dismiss these claims? The ladies on “The View” who brutalized Kavanaugh on his allegations, ignored Biden’s until yesterday when Whoopi was satisfied by Biden’s response that “…it never, never happened”. That was enough for Whoopi who said, “…“How much more transparent does he need to be here, Sunny? What else can he do?” But of course, Kavanaugh vehemently denied the allegations too…which Whoopi said Kavanaugh is probably guilty. According to one analysis, CNN waited 24 days to cover the allegations by Reade against Biden. When it came to Blasey Ford, CNN published close to 700 articles against Supreme Court Justice Kavanaugh in the 19 days from Blasey Ford’s statement up to his confirmation. That’s a huge difference. Between March 25 and April 30 Biden did nearly a dozen TV interviews with news anchors including NBC News’ Chuck Todd, ABC News’ George Stephanopoulos, and twice with CNN’s Anderson Cooper, all of them failed to ask Biden about the sexual assault allegation.
All I’m asking is for the left to be consistent, as you are being. Not to have a double standard as Patrecia has. I feel your pain with wrestling with this dilemma. My guess is the story will disappear quickly, the media doesn’t have the stomach to hammer away at it.
Doug. I don’t consider anyone on The View as being politically on the “left”. To me they all lean center. In fact, I was beginning to think that Whoopi could be a successful secret Republican operative with some of the questions she asked some Democratic presidential candidates. The View’s favorable Biden bias has been obvious for quite some time. A while back I half expected them to drop any pretense of treating the Democratic candidates fairly and simply show up in “Biden 2020” t-shirts; McCain included. Whoopi’s recent extremely rude and disrespectful treatment of Bernie Sanders when he was on the show cinched it for me. I stopped watching.
Kathryn McDonald, I’m very sorry that happened to you and I’m not so naive as to think that even when accusations of sexual assault or abuse are proven false the life of the accused ends in ruination. I personally know of two such cases. The problem I’m having is with the willingness of those in the Democratic Party who loudly defended Dr. Blasey-Ford are so quick to dismiss Reade’s accusations. As far as your assumption that because I objected to Whoopi’s treatment of Bernie Sanders I’m therefore a disgruntled “Never Biden” voter couldn’t be farther than the truth and quite frankly is pretty insulting. As far as your other assumptive question that presumes I do not believe in democracy, I can assure you I do which was pretty much my original point with my original post about my mixed feelings regarding the Democratic response to Biden’s accuser. To me, believing in Democracy means believing in fair representation even if that means having to ask yourself the hard questions regarding “your team” and being willing to face the answers head-on. Your personal assessment of who I am politically and as a person couldn’t possibly be more off-base.
Kathryn McDonald, I might add that after your last comment to me, and using your logic, I could just have easily labeled you a “Never Anyone But Biden” supporter and therefore not willing to look at anything negative said about him and therefore you are not a believer in Democracy. However I didn’t and I wouldn’t because I don’t know you and have no interest in personally attacking your belief system; especially in light of the fact(s) that I imagine you and I may have a lot of similar beliefs and I’m typically not in the habit of tearing other women down. As I originally stated in my first comment, my wrestling with mixed feelings regarding this particular issue brings me no joy; none.
I took a look for any news RE Redding/Redflex since the ancient history I posted (off-topic) on the Les’s haircut story today. Doni, please consider if this deserves some follow-up.
Both ANC and the RS reported on the Redflex contract renewal decision by the city council three years ago:
“…It is safe to say Redding’s eight red-light cameras are not the city’s most popular feature. Unfortunately for grumbling drivers who got dinged $500 for a rolling right-hand turn or another infraction, the people who like them carry some clout: the police chief and all five city council members.
Following the recommendation of Police Chief Rob Paoletti, the Redding City Council on Tuesday voted 5-0 to renew a four-year contract with Glendale, Ariz.-based Redflex Traffic Systems, the company that operates the cameras in Redding…”
https://anewscafe.com/2017/05/17/redding/redding-city-council-renews-unpopular-red-light-camera-contract-and-bids-city-manager-farewell/
https://www.redding.com/story/news/local/2017/05/16/live-redding-council-talks-red-light-cameras-city-manager-post/101745818/
But neither story included any mention by Redding elected officials or city employees of what just might, perhaps, have been of interest to the citizens of Redding, the truly impressive record of Redflex’s extensive programs to bribe elected officials and government employees to secure contracts nationwide, during the entire period which it was partnering with Redding to issue red light camera tickets. I found only one brief comment to the ANC story, mentioning it.
I had already known from my own experience Redflex was a real bottom-feeder, but check out:
“Thursday, August 20, 2015
Former Redflex CEO Pleads Guilty To Corruption In Awarding Of City Of Chicago’s Red-Light Camera Contracts
CHICAGO — The former chief executive officer of Chicago’s first red-light camera vendor pleaded guilty to a federal bribery charge Thursday.
As the CEO of Redflex Traffic Systems Inc., KAREN FINLEY funneled cash and other personal financial benefits to a City of Chicago official and his friend, knowing that the payments would help persuade the city to award red-light camera contracts to Redflex, according to a plea agreement. The benefits included golf trips, hotels and meals, as well as hiring the city official’s friend as a highly compensated contractor for Redflex, according to the plea agreement.
The benefits flowed over a nine-year period, from 2003 to 2011, during which time the city expanded the Digital Automated Red Light Enforcement Program by awarding millions of dollars in contracts to Phoenix-based Redflex, the plea agreement states…”
https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndil/pr/former-redflex-ceo-pleads-guilty-corruption-awarding-city-chicago-s-red-light-camera
Red Light Traffic Camera CEO Sentenced for Corruption in Ohio and Illinois
published in Prison Legal News March, 2017, page 28
The former CEO of Redflex Traffic Systems, Inc. was sentenced on October 19, 2016 to 14 months in federal prison for a bribes-for-contracts scheme in Ohio. Karen Finley, who was ousted from her position with the company that provides automated red light camera ticketing systems, was also sentenced in November to 30 months in prison for a much larger – to the tune of $2 million – bribery scandal in Chicago, Illinois. She will serve the terms concurrently.
The long-running corruption involving Redflex and Chicago public officials was first exposed by the Chicago Tribune in 2012. After entering into a contract with RedFlex, the city’s red light camera system soon grew to the largest in the nation, with 384 cameras that generated more than $600 million in traffic fines and fees. No elected officials have been charged in the case, but several collaborators were prosecuted. John Bills, then the no. 2 official in then-Mayor Richard Daley’s Department of Transportation, steered contracts to Redflex in exchange for cash and gifts throughout the 10-year conspiracy. He received 10 years in prison for his role in the scheme, in which he received cash payments, vacations, a Mercedes and a condo in Arizona, among other bribes.
Martin O’Malley, a consultant for Redflex, acted as a “bagman”; he pleaded guilty and was sentenced to six months in prison. Ohio lobbyist John Raphael admitted he had threatened Redflex executives with the loss of contracts if they refused to make political contributions; he was sentenced to 15 months in prison plus one year of supervised release and a $5,000 fine in June 2016.
After the scandal was revealed, Ohio lawmakers banned red light cameras. In Chicago, Mayor Rahm Emanuel canceled the city’s contract with Redflex, awarded the red light ticketing system contract to another company, and appointed Northwestern University to study the camera program and recommend corrective actions. Redflex’s automated red light camera system has been criticized in multiple jurisdictions for incorrectly ticketing drivers and serving as a source of revenue rather than a means of ensuring traffic safety…”
https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2017/mar/9/red-light-traffic-camera-ceo-sentenced-corruption-ohio-and-illinois/
Does it really seem plausible that the Redding Police Chief, the City Council, and all other staff involved didn’t Know about Redflex’s extensive criminal history at the time of the contract renewal?
If it was known, Redding had no problem continuing its partnership with this criminal organization, and the fact were not even worthy of public disclosure?
The number one most indecorous quote of the day on 5/6/20:
“In a way, by doing all this testing we make ourselves look bad.”
— DJT
Perhaps looking at the entire comment he made might put it in context. Here is what he said, “…So the media likes to say we have the most cases, but we do, by far, the most testing. If we did very little testing, we wouldn’t have the most cases. So, in a way, by doing all of this testing, we make ourselves look bad…we’ve done more testing than every other country combined, wouldn’t you think? So we’re going to have more cases because we do more testing. Otherwise, you don’t know if you have a case. I think that’s a correct statement.”
I think he was just laying out the fact that the more testing you do, the more cases that will be discovered. I personally don’t think it makes us look bad…but there are plenty of Trump haters that will blame the high number of positive tests on the president, and that’s not being fair. As of yesterday the US is at 230 deaths per million population….lower than most other western nations, other than Germany.
Mr. Cook.
You have deliberately, and repeatedly used specious statistics to misrepresent the lethality of the current pandemic in the USA, as compared with other nations.
Compared to trump, you are an honest man, Mr. Cook.
As most countries world-wide have instituted the uniform social distancing policies required, they have reduced their daily COVID-19 death rates significantly.
The USA is now suffering close to 40% of daily reported pandemic deaths world-wide.
That’s nearly ten times the current average daily deaths per million population rate, world-wide, that could be higher than every other nation in the world (sorry, can’t find that definitively) except the UK, which has its own severe leadership problem.
America had 38% of World pandemic deaths yesterday, 2,129 out of 5,589 as reported on this database:
Updated cut-and-paste of my reply to your same misleading comment of a week ago:
“..as of a few days ago, the USA ranked #10, worse than 129 other nations in highest confirmed D/MP…as reported below:
But America has risen rapidly to reach the top ten and you can expect we will pass more nations very shortly.
(update: we have since moved up to #9).
BTW, all these reports understate the real death tolls by very large amounts.
Note that the nine (eight) nations with death rates higher than America are all in Europe, and have many factors that make them particularly susceptible to the virus, such as higher population density and higher dependence on public transit.
“…How can you attribute responsibility to the president?…” Doug Cook
Trump is responsible for the American pandemic infections and deaths that have occurred and will occur due to his deviant behavior, in excess of those that would not have been preventable.”
America has already suffered well over fifty thousand unnecessary COVID-19 deaths due to trump’s malfeasance, and that number will almost surely rise into the hundreds of thousands, before the pandemic is over.
How can you continue to attempt to deny trump’s responsibility?
(Test post above, has links deleted.
They may have caused the comment to be blocked for the last few days by ANC spam filter.)
A woman can steal, lie, embezzle, write a love letter to God or Putin or whomever she wants while still having been sexually assaulted. A woman who commits a crime or exercises her right to write whomever she pleases should not mean that her claim of being sexual assaulted should then automatically be dismissed and disbelieved. All things are separate and just as accusations of stealing and embezzlement should be investigated, so should claims of sexual abuse. While I, myself, have a political party preference (Democrat), sexual abuse does not. I don’t want Trump to win the next election; the idea of him doing so makes me sick. Come November I will be voting and because I know what’s at stake and how it affects ALL people I have been encouraging ALL Democrats, Independents, etc, to get out and vote this November for the Democratic Presidential nominee which of course is Biden. That said, when I vote, if I still feel my party was willing to sacrifice a woman “for the team” I won’t be doing it with a clear conscience. I was recently accused of not believing in Democracy because I was assumed to be a female version of a disgruntled “Bernie Bro”. While I readily admit that I voted for Bernie Sanders and was disappointed when Joe Biden surged ahead I can assure you that that’s where it ended; in disappointment. After that I was full steam ahead for the presumptive Democratic nominee. My airing of personal concerns over how Biden’s accuser is being treated as third-rail by others in my party concerns me as well. Are we never to question anything being done by our preferred parties that bother us and simply “shut-up and vote”? So again, I get it, what’s at stake is HUGE but if a large part of our Democrat platform is Women’s Rights and all that that encompasses then I believe we shouldn’t simply toss aside and dismiss allegations of sexual abuse because it’s politically expedient. Maybe the allegations are completely false; maybe the allegations are completely true; it’s how they’re being swept aside that’s bothering me. We, as a party, did not character assassinate and sweep aside other’s allegations of sexual abuse. We all heard Trump’s “grab ‘em by the…” comments on tape. They were excused by his supporters as “unfortunate”; “harmless locker room talk”. The rest of us were appalled and still are. That should have disqualified him right then and there. It didn’t. Is it any wonder that even in this age of MeToo most sexually abused and assaulted women still don’t come forward? To me the choice between Biden over Trump is clear; it’s hands-down, Biden. That said, I’d sure like to feel good about my own party when I vote.
Candace, There is no way to prove something did not happen. In this instance, it comes down to who is more believable. There is plenty of evidence of Joe Biden’s kindness and generosity.Tara Reade, on the other hand, has told widely divergent stories about what she says Biden did to her. Please suggest how her claims can be investigated since the Senate—controlled by Republicans—won’t cooperate and the University of Delaware has not finished cataloguing Biden’s records, records that Biden says don’t contain personnel records.
The issue that Candace and I brought up was the blatant hypocrisy between this allegation and Justice Kavanaugh’s allegations. You said, “…There is plenty of evidence of Joe Biden’s kindness and generosity.” Ditto with Kavanaugh. There is no indication that Justice Kavanaugh has not been a model citizen, working with and mentoring many women, matter of fact all of his Supreme Court law clerks are women. Kavanaugh has lived an exemplary life, devoted to his community and devoted to public service. An exemplary life that few of us can mirror. So if that is the standard you hold up for Biden…does it make sense to give Kavanaugh the same consideration? That wasn’t done, was it?
The Senate can not investigate Biden because he is not a member of the Senate or a member of the administration facing charges, nor is he in front of the Senate being confirmed for an appointment. Dr Ford’s testimony could not be corroborated, but my guess you believed he unconditionally, correct?
Again, that is what bothers me the most. I don’t know if Biden is guilty of a sexual assault, I’m leaning towards it didn’t happen…but I am disgusted by the reporting of it and the double standard exhibited by the left.
Doug Cook,
I doubt the 50 witnesses Trump’s FBI didn’t bother to interview think Kavanaugh is all that “exemplary. Of course Trump put so many limits on that so-called “investigation” that a real one would have been impossible.
Now the corrupt head of Trump’s Department of Justice is releasing Trump’s criminal buddies from prison (even the ones who admitted their crimes), and Trump is blocking CDC recommendations for a safe reopening – in good part because the religious fanatics in his support base don’t think churches and religious organizations should have to adhere to the same standards as everyone else.
I think one of the most blatant examples of right-wing hypocrisy is their attitude toward the current First “Lady”. If the career choice of a Democratic First Lady had been to work as a nude porn model (including lesbian porn), they would be screaming endlessly about what a terrible role model she is, and that this is more proof of the left’s depravity and immorality. Instead they’re twisting themselves into pretzels trying to pretend that Melania’s porn is actually “art”, and claiming she’s “classy”.
Of course no Democratic First Lady would have chosen such a sleazy path. They’ve been too busy getting law degrees, fighting for the rights of the disadvantaged, and generally just making the world a better place.
The hypocrisy is indeed stunning.
But slut-shaming?
Having been exposed to a pornographic business for several years as a grade school-age child it’s a subject I feel very strongly about (as would anyone with the same experiences).
However, I believe the term “slut shaming” refers to personal behavior, rather than the calculated exploitation of humanity’s basest instincts for money.
The president’s base is dwindling and last night an anonymous WH insider told an MSNBC correspondent that full-0n character assassination (mud humping) against Biden will likely be the most effective weapon in the battle to retain this incumbent POTUS in November.
That’s what it’s coming down to for Team trump. A surprise to no one.
Right now, Gallup is showing the president at a 49% approval rating…almost identical to President Obama at the same time in his term, so no…I doubt his base is dwindling. If anything it is growing due mostly from the non stop attacks against him. It is shameful what the media and the left are doing to the president in dealing with this crisis. Go no further than the attacks on these very pages. There are millions like me who did not vote for him, but will support him now.
In addition, the recent release of documents that raised serious questions about the nature of the investigation that led to Gen Flynn’s guilty plea of lying to the FBI will be a big story going forward. It shows how utterly corrupt Comey and FBI leaders were, an absolute abuse of power. This will further raise Trump’s approval.
When this Covid-19 crisis is over, and we get to reflect on it. It will show that the US came through much better than most, and like it or not…you have to give the administration some credit.
The GOP really doesn’t have to assassinate Biden’s character. Biden is his own worst enemy. You really believe that young voters are going to come out and vote for Biden? What are younger Democrats supposed to think of a man who called a woman a “lying dog-faced pony soldier”. let’s see, He is prone to bizarre verbal mishaps. He doesn’t represent the cutting edge of the Democratic Party, has no sense of how to make himself acceptable to those who do, and isn’t terribly interested in trying. His comments on Covid-19 have been just loony and nonsensical…but I am assuming you are fine and dandy with using character assassination against President Trump?
He’s the only president in history to go an entire first term without breaking 50 percent approval.
Comey and the FBI utterly corrupt? Sounds familiar.
If a dangerous character of dubious distinction earns and or has character assassination karma, then yes, I won’t protest against it being used.
As with the Biden sex scandal, it will be interesting to watch the left ignore the revelations concerning the FBI that came to light this week and the wiretapping of Trump officials. Now we know that Obama was aware of Flynn’s surveillance. I spent a fair amount of time digging into the released documents, and anyone with an open mind should be greatly disturbed by the actions of Comey and the Obama justice department. But I doubt anyone will look into this abuse of power by the FBI. Sone of you must have some intellectual honesty, and can separate your hate for the president to see that these actions taken against the Trump team is egregious. How can anyone rationalizeFlynn’s surprise FBI interview as one document put it, the “goal” was “to get him to lie, so we can prosecute him or get him fired”. Fascism is brought up frequently about Trump… isn’t this classic example of fascism?
Doug Cook,
Not quite. The musings in the unsigned note referred to allowing Flynn to lie to cover his own ass before presenting him with the evidence against him, instead of presenting him with the evidence first. It’s not the smoking gun you right-wingers would like to believe.
And any deviation from protocol appears to be based on the fact that the country now has a totally unhinged president who has repeatedly obstructed justice, and is not amenable to reasonable – and legal – requests.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/30/michael-flynn-revelation-bombshell-or-business-as-usual/
Tactic plagiarism alert!
Yeah Doug, the FBI can say and do pretty dumb things. I don’t like it and I wish they hadn’t done that, but I still think the left and the FBI are better than anything else going.
Here’s what I gather after paying attention to administration after administration dating back to Nixon (I was a little young to know what was going on prior to that).
Each side accuses the other of egregious illegalities. Doug’s whataboutism is one facet of that: “You accuse our side of X, but whatabout your side doing XXX? You don’t care about XXX, because you’re a pack of hypocrites.”
To which I respond: Let’s look at the scoreboard.
When we look at the scoreboard—the numbers of investigations and criminal indictments and convictions and such for each administration during our adult lives—we have to reach one of two conclusions:
1. Republican administrations are shady. *Really* shady, compared to Democratic administrations. Like, orders of magnitude more shady, by the numbers. Like, hella people resigning in disgrace and being fired left and right and going to prison shady. Shaaaaaaaaaady.
Or…
2. Republicans are terrible at investigating and prosecuting. They pursue it almost continuously, but almost nothing that they allege in the way of Democratic wrongdoing sticks. It’s almost as if they’re making shit up as they go along.
Correction. The actual word used on MSNBC characterizing Trump’s base was “Shrinking” — not dwindling. A slight overstatement on my part.
Kathryn, so using your reasoning
Joe Biden’s kindness and acts of generosity means he could not possibly have done any part of what he’s being accused of because those kindnesses are “proof” that he’s a “Good guy” not a “Bad guy”. Those are what we Democrats typically call classic Republican talking points when it comes to dismissing sexual assault accusations. This woman is not the first woman to come forward and raise concerns; do we in turn, as Democrats, simply write all of them off as liars, not to be trusted because “men sometimes do kind things”? I don’t know what more, if any, new information will come out between now and the election but if voicing my personal discomfort surrounding this issue is so threatening to other Democrats perhaps I need to re-evaluate what I hoped my party stood for which to me (albeit admittedly naive) would include a commitment to not simply view an uncomfortable issue through our own partisan lens while not being willing to question, or even entertain a doubt if it falls on the peripheral of that view. You and I are obviously not in agreement on this issue. I respect your right to your own opinion without feeling the need to accuse you of not believing in Democracy; perhaps you could afford me the same respect .
No one else has accused Biden of sexual assault. A Biden staffer at the same time as Reade said she thinks the story is untrue because women who worked in Senate offices in 1993 all wore panty hose and, presumably, underpants. She said that for the story to be true, he would have had to lift her skirt and pull down her undergarments in a public place. Again, I call BS.
When affections turn icky. Anews, April 4th, 2019. How attitudes change in a year.
Bruce, yep, funny (not funny) that. This double standard of presumed guilt being used on a sexual abuse accuser by those I respect in my own party feels slimy because it is slimy.
Doni, I want to be very clear that my comment about “respect” to Bruce regarding the April 4, 2019 opinion piece was NOT directed at you; I was referring to people I admire and respect such as Elizabeth Warren and Stacy Abrams (although of course I respect you as well). My agreement with Bruce’s (things sure change) remark had more to do with comments made at that time surrounding Biden’s behavior. To be fair you said something along the lines that while you objected to his behavior you thought it should not mean his career should be derailed. Anyway, I just wanted to clear that up with you to avoid any misunderstanding. Perhaps I should work on becoming a frequent drinker; might do me a world of good. Or not.
Nice to see that our Fearless Leader has America’s COVID-19 testing capabilities to the point that there now is adequate capacity to test trump himself, his family, his kleptocratic supporters (and all their body-servants, of course) at whatever time interval they want. Which must mean that all Americans will have the same opportunities to get tested…any day now.
I can’t decide if I want to be tested every day, or take the risk of being tested only every other day.
What have all you folks decided?
“Trump says he’ll be tested daily for coronavirus
President Trump will be tested for coronavirus on a daily basis after a military member who serves as the president’s valet tested positive.
“So, we test once a week. Now we’re going to go testing once a day,” Trump said…
White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany on Wednesday called it “nonsensical” to try to test every American…”
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/496662-trump-says-hell-be-tested-daily-for-coronavirus
Newly discovered 1996 divorce documents confirm Reade had contemporaneously claimed to part ways with Biden’s office in 1993 because of sexual harassment:
https://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/politics-government/article242527331.html
The problem with Ms Reade’s account of how and why she left the Senator’s staff .. is that no one else in the office can confirm, or in fact believes, it. That includes Biden, his chief of staff, and any and all other staff members contacted.
So the preponderance of evidence would lead …
Miguel, Did the preponderance of evidence in the Kavanaugh allegations lead you to believe the Judge’s denial of any wrong doing? After all, no one was able to confirm or corroborate the story given by Dr Ford. Why can you not give Ms Reade the same consideration? I don’t know if anything happened, but we now that after the alleged incident, Ms Reade told a friend, her mother and her ex husband. Certainly more corroboration than the Kavanaugh allegation.
Doug Cook,
Is there something about being an ultra-right-winger that requires you to ignore the same facts, over and over? As I’ve pointed out at least twice, Dr. Ford told at least 4 people about her brutal attempted rape by Kavanaugh, that the 50 witnesses who came forward with information about Kavanaugh’s past sexual and physical abuse against women were not included in this so-called “investigation”, and that Trump severely limited the time frame and number of witnesses. There was a lot more confirmation for Dr. Ford’s claim than for Reade’s.
And of course we also had the hysterical, totally unprofessional temper tantrum of Kavanaugh himself during the hearing.
Let’s stipulate that Dr Ford did tell 4 people. (Not back then, but in 2016 and 2018). That is apparently enough for you to condemn the judge. Tara Reade told 3 people shortly after the incident allegedly occurred. Then why won’t you give Ms Reade the same consideration? Why is she a liar and Dr Ford was telling the gods honest truth? It seems to me that you aren’t really that concerned about sexual assault…it’s just politics for you, you don’t want to damage your man. Not being much of a feminist there, Patrecia.
Patrecia,
Kavanaugh allegedly pinned down a fellow highschooler, both still clothed, while extremely inebriated at a high school party 40 years ago. Kavanaugh had another credible allegation of drunkenly exposing his penis to another woman a year or two later at a party in college, but nothing credible in the decades since.
Biden was a sober & mature adult – a senator – when he allegedly forcefully stuck his fingers inside his subordinate’s vagina at work 30 years ago. Biden has had many women complain of inappropriate touching in the decades since.
Both accusers have documentation proving they told multiple people about their ordeal throughout their lives, with Ford not naming her accuser until recently and with Reade not detailing the severity of her incident until recently.
Ford, a pro-choice Democrat and outspoken member of the #resistance, certainly had an obvious political motive to thwart the nomination of pro-life Kavanaugh. Reade, also a staunch Democrat, has every political motivation to stay quiet in hopes of Biden defeating Trump.
Both women make credible accusations, though neither can “prove beyond a shadow of a doubt.” But Reade’s allegations are much more heinous given Biden’s then age, sobriety, and employer/employee relationship.
Ann Thrope,
The 50 witnesses who WEREN’T interviewed during the sham Kavanaugh “investigation” may very well have testified to his sexual and physical assaults against women into his college years and beyond.
And he didn’t just “pin down a fellow high-schooler” – he clamped his hand over her mouth to cut off her screams during that brutal attempted rape.
Doug Cook,
The one thing I’d agree with is that Biden didn’t understand the importance of giving women their personal space (although there is not the slightest indication that his intent was in any way sexual). However, it would take more than an accusation from someone we know almost nothing about (unlike Dr. Ford) to inspire me not to vote for someone who will elevate and protect the rights of ALL women.
Where was all this outrage on your part when Trump gloatingly admitted to sexually assaulting countless women, or when 50 or so of his victims (from all walks of life) came forward?
Patrecia, one of the reasons I did not vote for Trump was because of his character. At least I am consistent, unlike you. I have not condemned Biden as being guilty as you did with Kavanagh. Your selective outrage is nothing but political bias, as are your wild exaggerations
Below is what’s known about Biden accuser Tara Reade:
1. Reade claimed to have filed a complaint with an executive assistant in Biden’s office shortly after the alleged incident. However, the person Reade named stated unequivocally that Reade didn’t file a complaint of any kind, and didn’t even mention the incident to her. No one else in the office heard anything about it either.
2. Last year Reade joined several other women who complained that Biden didn’t respect their personal space (nothing sexual), but all she claimed at the time was that Biden ran his hand down her arm.
3. Reade said she told her mother, but her mother passed away four years ago. He brother orginally said that Reade only told him Biden touched her neck, but later suddenly “remembered” that she told him about the alleged sexual assault.
4. Reade said she left politics because of her love for Russia, and for Russian President Putin (who she described as a “caring, compassionate, visionary leader”).
5. Reade changed her name at one point, and there is no information available about what she did during the years she lived under an alias.
All of the above makes her claim extremely suspect, to say the least. She’s certainly no Dr. Ford.
“…Reade said she told her mother, but her mother passed away four years ago.”
Her mother called into the Larry King show in the 90’s complaining about the allegation and it not being investigated. The tape has been released. That is pretty compelling evidence.
That’s the difference. Ford never mentioned the alleged attack until late in life. Reade told multiple people, including her husband shortly after that alleged attack. How can you dismiss that? Ford’s memory was always suspect. Her ‘witnesses’ could never corroborate her stories.
Doug Cook,
An unidentified women called in to the Larry King show and referred vaguely to unnamed “problems” her daughter (who she said worked for a Senator) was having. Sexual assault wasn’t mentioned, and no names were mentioned. Reade now claims that was the voice of her deceased mother.
As recently as a few months ago Reade herself said publicly that Biden only rubbed her arm (no mention of a sexual assault). Her brother also stated in an interview that she told him only that Biden touched her neck. A text was later received that said he suddenly remembered she told him about a sexual assault.
A vague unidentified caller who said nothing about sexual assault, a close friend, and a relative who somehow supposedly forgot that his sister told him she was sexually assaulted is NOT “confirmation”. And as I pointed out above, not one of the dozens of people in Biden’s office at the time heard a word about this supposed assault. In addition, the person Reade claimed to have filed a complaint with at the time said unequivocally that no complaint was ever filed, and that Reade never even mentioned it.
Even if she had told everyone in creation this story, that doesn’t make it true. She herself also said she left her job because she didn’t like the attitude toward her beloved Putin and Russia, and that she didn’t agree with Biden’s policies.
Doug. In fact I said nothing about Ford or Kavanaugh whatsoever. And I have no interest in playing what-aboutism or false equivalencies. My comments were directed specifically and entirely at the merits of the claim(s) lodged by Ms. Reade. And THOSE, according those that are familiar with office, the time frame and cast of character(s), appear to be met universal skepticism and outright denial. So, in this case .. and again, I’ll have to insist that I am talking about THIS case .. I think the benefit of the doubt must strongly tilt toward the accused rather than the accuser.
One of Biden’s staffers in 1993 said that all women working in Senate offices wore panty hose and, presumably, underpants. She commented that it is not believable that Biden pulled down her pantyhose and underwear and then digitally penetrated her in a public hallway.
Ya, that account would certainly clinch it for me as proof she’s a liar. Do you hear yourself?
I stand by my comment.
Biden’s candidacy will survive Tara Reade: Democrats aren’t dumping Biden overboard based on a 27-year-old accusation, and they certainly won’t do so when running against Trump. Dr Ford should not have been celebrated nationwide as a symbol of truth-telling without any corroborative evidence. #BelieveAllWomen was always an idiotic slogan. The media’s pathetically hypocritical standard on due process and sexual assault allegations won’t survive. Neither will their credibility.
Decades old charges of sexual assault are almost impossible to prove… we may never know what, if anything, happened between Biden and Reade. But there is no doubt the media, and you, Kathryn have treated her far differently than Kavanaugh’s accusers. Still, the reason the cases are receiving such different coverage is obvious: Biden is a Democrat and Kavanaugh was nominated by Trump, simple as that.
Perhaps the 50 witnesses Trump prevented from testifying could have corroborated Dr. Ford’s account in terms of Kavanaugh’s pattern of violence and sexually degrading behavior toward women, at least through early adulthood.
In addition, there is no way around the fact that Tara Reade and Dr. Ford ARE vastly different. Dr. Ford is a highly respected Stanford researcher, someone who has received public accolades on various fronts throughout her career, and whose life is an open book.
On the other hand Reade is someone with a hidden past, an obsession with Putin and Russia (like Trump), and who has lied and changed her story repeatedly in connection with this alleged incident. No one else has ever claimed that Biden’s behavior toward women was in any way violent or sexual.
These two accusations are NOT the same, and shouldn’t be given equal merit.
So in other words, you are fine with character assassination if the accuser is going after a Democrat.
California is at 21,332 COVID-19 tests per million people.
That’s below the national average of 25,319 per million people.
Sorry Guv Gav. Still a C- at best.
Steve,
You’re overlooking the fact that the thousands of daily COVID-19 tests provided to trump, his family, high-ranking worshipers, and all of their extensive retinues of personal servants, increases the “national average” figure considerably…
In all seriousness, epidemiologists (mostly) agree that California requires far fewer COVID-19 tests than the USA average per capita, because California has far fewer COVID-19 infections, per capita.
That said, our situation is less than ideal, though I don’t think Newsom deserves much of the blame for that.
“…A relatively sizable percentage (6%) of COVID tests were positive, which indicates that testing in California is not widespread, meaning that many cases may go undetected.
5.6%
Last updated 5/7/2020.
The World Health Organization recommends a positive test rate of less than 10% before reopening. The countries most successful in containing COVID have rates of 3% or less…”
https://covidactnow.org/us/ca
I just don’t get it. Maybe someone has already noted Moscow Mitch and his role. However, at this point the burden on the Tara Reade story lies neither on her nor on Joe Biden, but on Mitch McConnell.
Biden has called for the Senate personnel files to be opened. The Secretary of the Senate has refused, vaguely citing legal impediments. That means either that the Senate rules must change to allow it, or a statute can be enacted specifically to allow these files and no others to be opened. Democrats would clearly vote yes because that is what Biden has asked for. And Jim Crowers would vote yes if a MoscowMitch says okay.
Either the personnel file will reveal a complaint alleging Biden’s sexual harassment, or it will not. If no file exists, then it undermines her credibility.
So why is MoscowMitch blocking access? Hint: he’s not doing it to help Joe Biden.
Good point. My guess — he’s doing it in interest of keeping the biggest C A card viable for as long as possible. That’s how the GOP rolls… and Turtleman is slippery.
Linda, I agree with you about being allowed to open up the Senate personnel files; I think it should be allowed. You say “…if no file exists, then it undermines her credibility”. If we’re going to assign guilt based on the credibility of whether or not a document exists why use language that only entertains a possible lack of credibility on Reade’s part? What if they open the files and the complaint is there? Are both things not in the same realm of possibility? Also, if the complaint is there are we going to give it the same weight we would if were not? I’ll be voting Democrat in the hopes of ousting Trump but as a Democrat I’m really struggling with this particular thing. I suppose when all is said and done we all vote our conscience and than live with our choice.
Candace, I do hear you loud and clear. I share your struggle. Won’t repeat what has already been posted. I guess my point was, why are the Mitch people blocking access to the files? If the complaint is not “there,” then in my mind it reduces the variables. One less thing for people to wonder about. I appreciate your willingness to be voting Democrat. I’m with you there. If we can only hang on long enough as a country, and if we are allowed to vote in the election. Yep.
Maybe Mitch doesn’t want to say that the complaint doesn’t exist because the Republicans want to use the story against Biden.
What a relief!
“President Trump on Friday broke with health experts, telling reporters that the coronavirus will “go away without a vaccine.”
“This is going to go away without a vaccine, it’s gonna go away, and we’re not going to see it again, hopefully, after a period of time,” Trump said at the White House. “You may have some flare-ups, and I guess I would expect that.”
Just days ago the Trump administration launched Operation Warp Speed, a project to accelerate the production of a vaccine for the coronavirus, which as of Friday had infected at least 1.2 million Americans and killed more than 76,000 here…
Asked what led him to believe that the virus would disappear without a vaccine, Trump claimed he had received that information from medical professionals…”
https://news.yahoo.com/trump-says-coronavirus-will-go-away-without-a-vaccine-195154249.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAKeMbzX3eaQppX2Rduhyq3aoZe9IZoTR7AETHkckI2qZS1bz1-fZ2lsWzriFm9pX6wJ1VYotQqICQ504lGoTn-v2glQzQdPxEMkWPEfjTnH-YATO13Dr6uLxVXAP5AlCnYv195LLVDespmumzzAdYdKWWtCIjF04naj9D_ru2igV
I have an idea, in order to further humiliate someone who has come forward with a sexual abuse claim in front of the world let’s toss up explicit details of her alleged abuse for further public consumption. Heck, let’s throw in some “she’s a liar, cuz pantyhose and underwear” hypotheses. I mean, this dragging through the mud, character assassination of women who cry foul never gets old right? We can’t possibly have already read these things in the news, right? Let’s publicly excoriate her some more to prove we’re right and she’s a liar. Proof? Nah, who cares, she’s a liar. Let’s first have a public lynching and then if it turns out she was telling the truth, oh well, she took one for the team. Even better let’s string her up spread-eagled and naked, wouldn’t that be fun? You call “bullshit”? THAT’S worse than bullshit; that’s plain old salacious misery-porn on parade. It makes me furious and I’ll have no part in it.
And what about if her allegations are untrue? Would Biden deserve that?
Kathryn, You’re missing my point. It’s not a matter of anyone “deserving” anything. Writing Putin, changing your name, saying you told your mom but she died so can’t corroborate your claim, and on and on should not automatically negate your claim of sexual abuse. If I rob a bank tomorrow and am sexually assaulted on my way home the sexual assault still happened and I’m not lying when I say it did. If a different woman who did not rob a bank and was sexually assaulted on her way home would also not be lying when she said it had happened. Both of us were sexually assaulted. It shouldn’t matter what others think as a society about our character. Assault is assault. You mentioned that there’s no way to prove what happened either way and it’s his word against hers. In that scenario who do you think has more power? Should we only speak truth to power if society deems us “worthy”? Biden does not have an unblemished past as far as reports by other women regarding unwelcome touching. He’s also been known to embellish stories so how ‘bout we don’t automatically nail her to the cross because maybe we don’t like that she had some dumb blog , or whatever, in the past? How ‘bout we see how this plays out? I don’t want a Trump Presidency; I don’t want Biden to be drug through the mud either. That said, if I’m not capable of even entertaining the fact that I’m choosing to ignore a woman’s claim of sexual abuse because her sacrifice is the means to a much desired end (Trump out) then I think I’m a pretty shitty person. Selective memory may come in handy sometimes but the things pushed to the side remain. Voting Trump out is my ultimate goal and I think Biden will do fine if he’s elected. I get it; I said the quiet thing out loud and it’s not going to be tolerated. The worry is misplaced; I don’t yield enough power to be the catalyst that causes a domino-effect dissent within the Democratic Party which will result in Biden not getting elected; nor would I want to. If you’ve paid attention to my previous posts that should be obvious by now. I wish you well. I wish us all well.
In case someone hasn’t read. Reade’s attorney contributed to Trump’s campaign.
https://time.com/5834049/tara-reade-biden-lawyer/?fbclid=IwAR2nxyjNGhDm3yrED7me2VcGH0WVKczrINyZ-JSvgpFmZwTfiNPb9OZoB8o
..and Reade is a Democrat…she worked for a Democrat senator. You point being?
Doug Cook,
We don’t know what Tara Reade is now (other than a self-admitted lover of Putin and Russia), especially since we know nothing about her hidden years while living under an alias.
She is also described as a “free-lance writer”, so I wouldn’t be surprised if we see a book in the near future based on this accusation.
Possible future book deal; once wrote about loving all things Russia; once used an alias. Using that criteria as proof of evidence of one being a liar means we have a helluva lot of liars in the United States. I hope they never find themselves a victim of sexual assault because – liars.
Most people who use an alias don’t just disappear from public view, and later hide their activities during that period.
We’ll only be given two choices in the upcoming presidential election – a deranged thug who gloatingly admitted to sexually assaulting countless women, and who is destroying women’s rights and protections, and a Democratic candidate who will maintain and advance those rights. Not voting for Biden because of this single (suspect) accusation will just give Trump more of an edge.
Oh, I didn’t really have a point. Was just passing on information. I’m serious about that. I really don’t know what to believe anymore. What’s your point with, Reade is registered as a Democrat? If I followed your logic, that would be like saying many of my friends are black. After shooting a black person. But I don’t want to get nasty, like you did with a post asking another why they shopped at Walmart (if they didn’t like folks not wearing masks in that store). Your point being?
I was just passing information too…I didn’t really have a point either, other than the point I have been making about the double standard exhibited with this allegation compared to Justice Kavanaugh…and Reade is not some Trumpist trying to take down Biden.
I didn’t think I was being ‘nasty’ with my observation about shopping at Walmart. I think it is a valid point if someone is so concerned about social distancing, why shop at the busiest place in Redding,and then be appalled at other shoppers ? I would never go to WalMart under these circumstances, I tend to do my grocery shopping at smaller stores, like Holiday or Sprouts and Safeway as early as I can get in. I needed new summer shorts, so I bought them online, I didn’t travel to the busiest store in town. I guess I shouldn’t have been so blunt…but nasty? I don’t think so.
I’m not “sure Reade is not some Trumpist trying to take down Biden.” Where are you getting your intelligence? And why are you so sure? There were many candidates that the Democrats could have run. It’s so frustrating. Meanwhile, I do find Reade’s timing strange and suspect. Anyway, I can visualize a debate between Trump and Biden. The TV people ask, “what is the number of women you have assaulted?” Uh, oh. Been in the house too much…
Hey, how is that Sprouts store anyway? I’m being serious here. I moved just before it opened.
As I said before, I have problems with complaints that surface decades after an alleged incident. Yes, the timing is strange, as was Dr Fords. I tend to lean towards the accused being innocent until proven guilty. I will give the same consideration to Biden as I did with Kavanaugh. It’s only fair.
As far as Sprouts. I enjoy shopping there, especially for produce. Just seem fresher and better quality. A small store but with a good selection. My wife is a Grocery Outlet kinda gal…she’s the frugal one, but I do produce and meat shopping at Sprouts or Holiday for the better quality. Had some yummy Pink Grapefruits this morning for breakfast
As far as the Kavanaugh and Biden claims of sexual assault go, this “Democrats are hypocrites because the situations are same-same” is political weaksauce.
“My motivation in coming forward was to provide the facts about how Mr. Kavanaugh’s actions have damaged my life, so that you can take that into serious consideration as you make your decision about how to proceed. It is not my responsibility to determine whether Mr. Kavanaugh deserves to sit on the Supreme Court.” — Prof. Christine Blasey Ford, Senate Confirmation Hearings for Brett Kavanaugh
Since Kavanaugh’s confirmation, Prof. Ford has faded away. No book deal, no tour of news shows during and after the hearings, no opportunistic lawyer mapping out strategies for her, no ascension to the role of professional victim. There was a GoFundMe page to help her bear the costs of living in different locations and for security assistance in the face of ongoing death threats from RWNJs, but that’s all.
Reade has already lawyered up—with a Trump supporter (surprise!)—and will be making the media rounds. She’s said she wants Biden to drop out of the race—a far cry from Ford’s statement that it wasn’t for her to decide if Kavanaugh was fit for office. Her story has changed radically, not just by degree, but in kind. None of us know if she’s now telling the truth, but the charges getting more sordid as the stakes go up does not lend credibility. We’ll just have to wait to see how long she manages to keep a high profile, but I suspect she’s not going away soon.
I found the Kavanaugh hearings troubling because of the time lag—to me, the most damning evidence that came out of the hearings was not the belated charges or the “he said/she said” testimony, but that Kavanaugh is temperamentally unfit for the Supreme Court. To me, his temper tantrum and melt-down should have disqualified him.
Again, the two cases have in common the long delay between alleged deed and revelation. Other than that, the claim that they are equivalent is shit from a bull.
“There is no precedent that anybody can find for somebody who has been charged with perjury just getting off scot-free,” Mr. Obama said of the Justice Department’s decision to drop charges against Michael T. Flynn.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/09/us/politics/obama-flynn-coronavirus-trump.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
If you dig into the documents, you can see that the FBI set Flynn into a perjury trap. In their zeal to damage President Trump, Comey and other leaders in the FBI devised a devious scheme to target and frame Flynn. The documents made public, that you should really read exposed the underlying “goal” behind the visit with Flynn: “to get him to lie, so we can prosecute him or get him fired.” Is that the mission of the FBI? Let’s think about that for a moment. Since when is it the business of the FBI to get a person fired? Is it the job of the bureau to get people to lie so that they can be charged with the crime of lying? I’m sure you have seen that TV interview with Comey where he bragged about how they’d tricked Flynn and violated protocols when they set the trap. I am surprised you readily accept this abuse of power by the FBI.
Remember when Trump was mocked when he made accusations that his team was being wiretapped? Remember everyone mocking the president for making that accusation? Know we know as a fact that they were wiretapped. We now know that President Obama was aware that Flynn was wiretapped. We now know that when the FBI went to the FISA court for wiretapping warrant on Carter Page by lying and holding back information. We know that the FBI was told by the CIA that Carter Page was a CIA informant. That he went to the CIA to report his suspicions that Russian intelligence agents were approaching him. The FBI left that fact out of the application for wire tapping. You mean you can’t put your hatred for the president away for a moment and look at this egregious abuse of power?
Oh… That’s why he pleaded guilty………….. Twice.
He pled guilty to protect his son, who the FBI was threatening. What was the lie? What was the horrible thing he did? Flynn was targeted for investigation not on the basis of any evidence but simply because he had contacts with the Russian government — something that I would hope would be true of any incoming national security adviser. You mean it doesn’t bother you at all that he was set up? That the FBI overstepped their authority? The FBI wiretapped the private conversations of Flynn with the Russian ambassador that contained nothing illegal, so the only chance to “get” Flynn was by setting a perjury trap. Is your hatred for the president so deep that you can ignore these abuses of power? Did you even bother to read the released documents?
How about the FBI lying to the FISA courts? You want to ignore that too, right? Because you hate the president. Does it not bother you that the FBI faked emails from the CIA to continue unconstitutional surveillance of Carter Page? You mean your hatred for the president is so entrenched that you can just ignore these egregious examples of abuse of power? My goodness .
Doug Cook,
Flynn pled guilty because he WAS guilty, to which overwhelming evidence attested. By doing so he got a better deal for HIMSELF.
Russia was clearly – and provably – interfering in a U.S. election to swing it in Trump’s favor, while numerous Trump cohorts were running around behind the scenes meeting with Russian agents, then lying about their activities. Making this matter even more suspect is the fact that Trump is up to his eye teeth in hock to Russian investors, and has refused to release his tax returns and other financial information.
The Mueller Report found ten instances in which Trump obstructed justice in relation to this investigation, with the recommendation that the federal government prosecute him when he leaves office. Unfortunately it wasn’t carried out to its conclusion, and Mueller left it to Congress to complete. However, Republicans had no interest in pursuing it, and Democrats have been overwhelmed with Trump’s never-ending scandals and other potentially illegal activities. In fact, Mueller clearly stated that his report in no way exonerated Trump.
This was a legitimate investigation, conducted while the “president” and his cohorts staged a very active cover up. Most of your comment above is gross exaggeration coupled with right-wing conspiracy theories.
Hey Doug, you can support collusion with Putin all you want. “I had to fire General Flynn because he lied to the vice president and the F.B.I….”Guess who said that 😉 twice.
I’ll tell you what; I’ll believe a Bronze Star, a Purple Heart, the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry and two Navy Commendation Medals for his service in Vietnam,Longest serving FBI Director since J. Edgar Hoover, First FBI Director to be appointed to serve an additional two years after his 10-year term expired, prosecutor of Manuel Noriega and John Gotti and led the investigation into the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 and will recognized and respected man of honor by everyone but your president Mr. Clorox….. ANY DAY! Clorox and Flynn both are liars and Putin supporters. Protect his son my a–. BTW, both were NOT exonerated from collusion with Russia and BTW, The Senate (controlled by Republicans) Intelligence Committee on Tuesday reaffirmed its support for the U.S. intelligence community’s conclusion that the Russian government interfered in the 2016 presidential election with the goal of putting Donald Trump in the Oval Office. It’s not as Clorox says, ” a “hoax,” driven by Democrats and a “deep state” embedded within the government” and still happening…. Intelligence officials warned House lawmakers last week that Russia was interfering in the 2020 campaign to try to get President Trump re-elected…”
Salud Comrade…. My goodness indeed…
christian — BOOM!!!
There are times when I want to ask our resident Trump apple-polisher how the weather is in St. Petersburg. Cold wind coming off the Baltic Sea this morning, ??????? (Duglas, in case ANC doesn’t support Cyrillic text.)
christian, nobody refutes the fact that the Russians interfere in our elections. Obama knew that but kept it secret. You want to believe that the Trump campaign worked with the Russians. and after a lengthy investigation. There was zero proof of that. I know you won’t read them…but just a cursory look at newly released documents show the level of abuse of power from the FBI. You seemed rather unconcerned that the FBI leadership thought that they could try and get Flynn fired. Why can’t you address the fact that getting someone fired from an administration is not part of the FBI’s job? Why can’t you address the fact that the FBI lied to get members of the Trump team wiretapped?
The goal of the Russians was not to put Trump in office, like virtually everyone else in the world, They thought Clinton had it wrapped up. Their goal was to damage a President Clinton, to make her weak in the eyes of the world. The Russians hated Clinton. The fact that Trump has been tougher on Russia than Clinton would have been is something you also ignore. Sorry the Russian collusion hoax didn’t work out for you. Time to move on. Yes, the Russians interfered in our elections…heck, Obama interfered in Israel elections. but to make the leap that Trump was colluding with Russia, has been proven to not have happened. Again, if you read the released documents, you will see that Clapper and other intelligence leaders were saying in closed sworn testimony they had no proof of collusion. I also find it interesting that you completely ignore the revelations about the FBI’s abuse of power…that has been proven. Would you care to comment on those abuses I laid out for you? Start with this one, why did the FBI lie to get a FISA warrant for Carter Page?
Doug Cook – I posted the comment below earlier, and you chose to ignore it, just as you ignore every fact that doesn’t fit your ultra-right-wing bias. Here it is again:
The musings in the unsigned note referred to allowing Flynn to lie to cover his own ass before presenting him with the evidence against him, instead of presenting him with the evidence first. It’s not the smoking gun you right-wingers would like to believe.
And any deviation from protocol appears to be based on the fact that the country now has a totally unhinged president who has repeatedly obstructed justice, and is not amenable to reasonable – and legal – requests.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/30/michael-flynn-revelation-bombshell-or-business-as-usual/
“The FBI set Flynn into a perjury trap”
A general in the army allowed someone to set him up?
Not likely.
Any man, let alone a general would never compromise their honor. And if they did it does nor say much about that person.
Yeah sure criminals of all types compromise for better sentences.
But the FBI set him up? Where was the benefit for Flynn in admitting to lying? Admitting to perjury?
Trump must actually hate Flynn as he “hates military men who get caught”.
Patricia, not once in any of my comments voicing my concerns over what I perceive to be hypocritical treatment of Reade by some in my own party have I said my current plan is to not give Joe Biden my vote; nor have I urged others to not vote for him. You and I have followed each other’s comments for a fair amount of time now and I’ve been very forthright regarding how I feel about Trump. I’ve more than once labeled him a “monster” (among other things). Not voting in this election is not something I’d ever consider. Again, that was never my point. Obviously me voicing my concern was unpopular with some who share my political leanings; which pretty much was also my original point. Anyway, a very “Happy Mother’s Day” to you – take good care.
Candace, in 2016 I did not vote for Trump or Clinton. I couldn’t in good conscience vote for Trump and my views about Secy Clinton are well known. As protest vote, I wrote in Bernie Sanders. If you don’t feel comfortable, don’t feel guilty about not voting for Biden. I believe these allegations will blow over by November, the media and the Democrats just don’t have the stomach for this issue. My concern with Biden is his mental acuity. His cognitive health is, to say the least, questionable. My 89 year old mother-in-law has recently been diagnosed with the early stages of dementia. There are just too many similarities with what she is going through now and how Biden sounds. It’s tough being the president, I don’t think Biden can physically do it.
Doug Cook,
And what do you think about Trump’s “mental acuity”? Per thousands of psychiatrists and other mental health professionals across the country he is provably deranged, frequently delusional, and lies through his teeth every time he opens his mouth.
In addition, he appoints totally unqualified religious lunatics to head our federal agencies, his blatant incitements to violence are responsible for multiple deaths and countless injuries, he has more than once praised Nazis and other domestic terrorists as “very good people”, gloats about being a serial sex criminal, and ridicules people with disabilities. No one with an ounce of human decency could possibly compare his behavior favorably to Biden’s occasional wanderings.
I suspect that Biden’s running mate will be chosen with great wisdom by the knowledgeable people he surrounds himself with. Meanwhile Trump is stuck with Pence (another backward religious crazy), since replacing him would anger Trump’s nutty religious base. It would also be seen as throwing a loyalist under the bus, which he has promised several times not to do.
It is well beyond ‘occasional wanderings’ . I won’t refute your other claims about the president, because I have done so with you ad nauseum. But look at what you just said, “… suspect that Biden’s running mate will be chosen with great wisdom by the knowledgeable people he surrounds himself with.” What you are insinuating is that there is doubt that Biden could fulfill his term as president, so we dang well need to make sure we have a strong VP. Really? and what is the criteria they are using to choose a VP? Someone with experience and leadership skills? Someone adept at foreign policy? No…the criteria is it has to be a woman, and preferably a woman of color.
Hey Doug, but I’ll bet you’re voting for Trump this time around right? Oh by the way, I like the quote below by Chris Christiee. After Obama told Clorox that “given the importance of the [national security adviser] job, the president throught there were better people for it, and that Flynn wasn’t up for the job.” But Trump proceeded with hiring Flynn anyway. Former New Jersey governor and longtime Trump confidant Chris Christie has also said he directly advised Trump against hiring Flynn.
“If I were president-elect of the United States, I wouldn’t let General Flynn into the White House, let alone give him a job…”
christian, it is not up to the FBI to disapprove of a an executive branch appointment and then lie and cheat to get him fired. Why can’t you acknowledge that? Why can’t you acknowledge the abuse of power of the FBI? THAT is why the Justice Dept dropped the charges. The abuse of power of Comey and his lackies.
Did you also see the recent quotes by Christie on the Flynn case, which he called “an absolutely classic perjury trap”? Christie went on to say in an interview with ABC, “…These are unprecedented times because we’re taking the covers off of what was some really awful conduct by prosecutors and investigators. And, you know, George, I usually stand up for these folks, but you cannot defend this conduct.”
Let me guess, you’ll ignore THIS quote by Christie, right?
Patrecia — You left out that he’s the leader of barely over 4% of the world’s population, and his bumble-f*** leadership has led to nearly 30% of the world’s COVID-19 deaths. And even in the face of those numbers, he continues to babble on about his perfect leadership and overwhelming success in the face of the pandemic. The word “delusion” doesn’t even begin to describe the nature of his rupture with reality.
And the rest of the world looks on in horror, wondering how we continue to tolerate such a fake, fool, and failure.
Tell it, Patrecia!
My father lived to be one month shy of his 90th Birthday and my mother is looking forward to a huge party to celebrate 90 early next year. Genetically, my expected lifespan is considerably longer than what you state. Therefore, think again before including me in your GOP Death Panel discussions.
Candace – I’m glad to hear it, and Happy Mother’s Day to you too!
HAPPY MOTHERS DAY
Hey Bruce, you asked whether my Cody brother-in-law knew if West/Kardashian had purchased a ranch near Cody to sit out the pandemic. Yes, they have some property, but they bought it well over a year ago.
Trump will win reelection that is written in stone.
Right now Nicky Halley is already making moves to be the Republican presidential candidate in 2024. And this is what the race for Biden’s VP choice is, choosing who will be the 2024 Democratic presidential candidate.
Also written in stone is America will have a woman for president after the 2024 election. The only question is will it be a Democrat or a Republican?
Bruce — I want to believe your first prediction is pessimism, not optimism. Regardless, if Trump’s win in 2016 taught us anything, it should have been that nothing political is written in stone.
Steve, yes it is pessimism but I think the only way Biden could defeat Trump is if he named Michelle Obama as his VP choice. But she has shone zero interest in continuing in politics and who could blame her.
Bruce, I have been making the argument that in the long run, Biden winning the election would be the best thing for the GOP. Biden would be a one term seat filler president. He wouldn’t accomplish much, wouldn’t get the country in much trouble. No doubt if he wins, RBG will retire so he will for sure have a Supreme Court pick, but it will be a moderate choice, not disagreeable to the Republicans. So it would be a quick 4 years and then adios. That would set Nikki Haley up for a strong 2024 run. It is difficult, and rarely happens that the same party keeps the White House 3 cycles in a row, having Biden before her will give her a better chance, Trump fatigue would be a thing of the past. Haley had a better than 70% approval rate as governor and would be a strong presidential candidate. I have no doubt that Trump asked her to be VP, and my guess is she declined the offer. I have been predicting for 20 years now that the first female president would be a Republican.
If RBG died tomorrow, Sen. McConnell would of course refuse to hold confirmation hearings because Supreme Court justice shouldn’t be confirmed during an election year. You know, like he did with Obama’s last nominee.
Ha ha ha ha ha!
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! BAAAAAH HA HA HA HA HA HA!
Ha ha ha! Ha ha. Huh huh. Huh.
Oh, God.
Doug Cook,
ONCE AGAIN, Mueller stated unequivocally that his report in no way exonerated Trump – it was simply incomplete.
Also, I managed to find a ten-year-old poll showing that Nikki Haley had a 70 percent approval rating among South Carolina Republicans at the time as Governor, which is not much of an accomplishment. More recent and comprehensive polls regarding her work in the Trump administration place her general approval rating at 34 percent.
No doubt Republicans would rush to vote for Haley, since they’d vote for any woman who promoted the patriarchy. However, she certainly wouldn’t get the same support from Democrats, who are generally intelligent enough to distinguish between a biological female who cares about the civil rights of women and other groups, and one who doesn’t.
Finally, you NEVER addressed Trump’s obvious derangement, delusional thinking, non-stop lies, and many incitements to violence except to make lame excuses along the lines that he “doesn’t have a filter” or “he doesn’t think before he speaks”. The harm he causes is quite deliberate, because that’s what demented sociopaths DO.
“Trump will win reelection that is written in stone.”
It seems an assumption like that typically come from a optimistic supporter.
They are who they are.
I’m over it.
Good Mothers Day.
Is there any Democrat out there that is optimistic about Joe Biden’s chances?
It should worry Republicans that Democrats are still extremely fond of former president Obama, and that Obama is apparently chomping at the bit to get out there and start stumping for his friend.
It should also worry Republicans that Trump is capable of doing something so completely insane between now and election day that it finishes his chances. Like calling Michelle Obama an uppity negress Muslim, or throwing a punch at Bidcn on the debate stage and promptly getting his ass kicked. Of course, he could be filmed trying to slip Ivanka some tongue and 75% of Republicans would still worship him.
Of course. We Dems all are.
A recent poll by Emerson University found only 45% of Joe Biden’s supporters said they’re extremely or very excited to vote for him, while 55% said they’re only mildly or not that excited. An ABC poll is showing that just 24% of Biden’s supporters are “strongly enthusiastic” about him compared to 53% for Trump. In another poll, 54% of Sanders backers said they would be dissatisfied if Biden were the nominee.
Young Democrat voters are not going to come out and vote for Biden. Just as they stayed home in 2016. There is no excitement for Biden . Presidential elections are generally determined by two factors… the size and enthusiasm of each major party’s base, and which way the swing voters and independents in the middle go. Right now it is advantage Trump
Doug underestimates the degree to which people recognize Trump for the sicko
train wreck that he is, and how much he’s despised. As the country continues to sink, that anti-Trump contempt will grow.
People don’t have to be in love with Biden in order to loath Trump.
Doug Cook,
Young people don’t vote in large numbers, no matter the candidate. If they did Sanders would now be the presumptive nominee.
And it’s no secret that a good portion of Trump supporters are fanatical – they’re fanatically racist, nationalistic, sexist, homophobic, religious, and xenophobic.
However, more intelligent people who consider Trump an unparalleled nightmare will shake off their 2016 complacency to rid the federal government of this monstrous and corrupt president and his regime. They will vote against Trump, no matter who his competition is.
That’s why Republicans lost an entire branch of government, a number of governorships, and a whole slew of local offices in the mid-terms. Fortunately that trend is still on-going.
Me.
If Trump gets booted out on his @$$ in November, he’ll have added at least $7 trillion to the national debt and crashed the economy, in just one term.
Absolutely bungled the COVID-19 crisis like no leader on the planet, crashed the healthiest economy inherited from a previous president in modern history, sabotaged our relationships with longtime allies, cuddled up to despots and dictators, added $7 trillion to the national debt, lurched the country toward rank authoritarianism, and poured gasoline on the political divisiveness that plagues America.
All in one term.
Gosh, you could almost make a decent case for “Worst President Ever.”
I believe you could. Reagan and Dubya were pretty awful but not to the extent of ghastly- like this sitting president and his cabinet of toadies are.
Dubya (aka Shrub) wrote of Trump: “He makes me look pretty good.”
When we elect a clown, expect a circus… In this case a catastrophic failure of the presidency and the tRumpublican enablers that support him come hell or high water…. and the water is rising faster than Clorox the Clown and his nepotist fools and crony oligarchics can handle, not that they could handle much of anything before Covid 19. The so called greatest economy in history is but his story of making the rich filthy rich at the expense of anyone that is not in the top 10%.
Basically, the tRumpublican economy was and is a shell game; they took what a real president of The United States, Obama, stood on his shoulders and began the transfer of the greatest wealth in history, the wealth of the American Citizens, put it in their pockets and opened up the casino, were the loser, the American people, get to pay out of our nose while they play. Gone is the so called “conservative” ethics that government’s main priority is protection of the American People, in it’s place is obstruction, racism, gutting of SSI, education and healthcare, gutting of environmental and economic – consumer protections, so their move to a a system of government that is subservience to the wealthy and tRump of course.
Will Democracy survive? Not with President Clorox the Clown at the helm and his enablers doing his bidding. And nope, he is NOT LEADING IN THE POLLS…. But, with industrial money and Putin’s help, Clorox might be able to swindle another election…; throw in Flynn for good measure (do you all know that Clorox and Putin had a nice little phone call last week, the day before Clorox told his personal attorney Barr to drop the Flynn charges, somthing almost never done before in the history of our legal system…) and Democracy just might loose once again to a rigged election.
My goodness indeed….
christian – Ha ha ha. “Clorox the Clown”- that’s a great handle for him.
I can’t disagree with your post one bit.
Has anyone else noticed that two whitehouse aids have tested positive and the only people to self quarantine are Dr. Fauci and two other staff doctors.
This is a great article on Flynn, Trump and there good friend Putin. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2268270013317052&id=241446929332714
‘When Barr says Flynn’s clandestine conversations with Kislyak were not “material” to the counterintelligence probe into Russia’s interference in our election he is again lying and trying to subvert justice. The materiality is obvious.’
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/10/opinion/bill-barr-michael-flynn.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
Let’s look at some facts Gary from the released documents that I’m sure you haven’t peeked at. After 4 months of investigation, and before his surprise interview with the FBI. The the FBI “determined that [Mr. Flynn]was no longer a viable candidate as part of the larger Crossfire Hurricane umbrella case” and prepared to close the investigation. “…It laid out the numerous searches of holdings and investigative steps that had at each step yielded “no derogatory information” on Mr. Flynn.
But Comey and Strozk decided to push ahead anyway. It was the FBI’s opinion that the FBI would not notify the incomingTrump administration of the Flynn-Kislyak communications, despite the DOJ’s contrary view that the incoming administration should be notified. Yates called Comey to demand that the FBI notify the White House of the communications, but Comey never returned her call and went ahead with the interview of Flynn. Acting Attorney General Yates was “flabbergasted” and “dumbfounded,” and other senior DOJ officials “hit the roof” upon hearing
of this development,given that “an interview of Flynn should have been coordinated with DOJ.”
What did the FBI agents that conducted the interview report back to Comey? The FBI agents expressed uncertainty as to whether Mr.Flynn had lied. FBI agents reported to their leadership that Mr.Flynn exhibited a “very sure demeanor” and “did not give any indicators of deception.” Both of the agents “had the impression at the time that Flynn was not lying or did not think he was lying.”
This man’s life was ruined because of the abuse of power of Comey, he disregarded and ignored the demands of the DOJ (Obama’s DOJ). Nobody believes that the conversation with the Russian ambassador was inappropriate. The FBI had transcripts of the call. It would be unwise for an incoming NSA to NOT call the Russians.
I am rather flabbergasted that you wish to ignore this egregious abuse of power by the FBI leadership. An abuse of power that even the Obama DOJ was concerned about.
Doug Cook,
You’re just full of lame excuses for this criminal regime, all its slithering around behind the scenes, and its illegal shadow government. The link below is an account by a Flynn prosecution insider that’s about as clear as it can get.
Then there’s sleazy Trump toady William Barr – who deceitfully attempted to conceal the actual contents of the Mueller Report, has been claiming for decades that only fundamentalist Christians should be allowed to enjoy the benefits of a free society, and admittedly wants to replace our Constitution with brutal Old Testament laws. I can’t think of anyone who is less qualified to be the U.S. Attorney General.
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-05-07/mike-flynn-department-of-justice-guilty-plea
Doug, I simply do not trust Barr and do not buy the notion that the FBI led Flynn into a perjury trap. He still committed perjury, Why?
I’m inclined to believe the acting assistant attorney general for national security at the Justice Department from 2016 to 2017, Did you open and read what she said in the above NYT piece? I suspect you will answer; “every word.”
My understanding is that Barr is submitting a motion to drop all charges against Flynn. Let’s see how that plays out in court with the judge.
The good news here if there is any, is that the judge handling the Flynn case might not accept Trump’s / Barr’s request to drop the charges against Flynn and vacate the case. In fact, only the judge can do that. There is no indication as of today that the judge is going to do that, or not do that, we’re going to have to stay tuned. If the judge says nope, that will leave President Clorox to go ahead and give a pardon. That’s what Clorox was intending all along, keep his hands clean and let his mouthpiece Barr do the dirty work.
It absolutely blows me away that you can easily ignore the abuse of power of the FBI. I spelled out that even the AG of the Obama administration was shocked over Comey’s dealings. So far, it appears I am the only one that has actually looked at the documents pertaining to the case. As opposed to reading biased reports from left leaning websites. Why was Clapper saying one thing in sworn testimony, and an entirely different story to the media? Perhaps to sell a book? See christian, I went in and read these transcripts…I went to the source. You just want to have blinders on and believe nothing but your left wing sites.
How come you refuse to reply to my question about Comey trying to get Flynn fired? Is that the job of the FBI?
Hey Doug, what do you think Putin and Trump were talking about the day before they told Barr to dismiss the Flynn case?
According to the official readouts of their conversations, the leaders discussed the coronavirus pandemic and a price war that destabilized the oil markets. So now American presidents are not allowed to call the Russian president? Doing so makes them guilty of collusion? You remind me of many people I have been in contact recently that has only followed politics since Trump became president, and are unaware how global politics work.
But again, you want to avoid talking about the abuse of power of the FBI, I wonder why.
Why would anyone take the word of 19,000 carer prosecutors over our own disingenuous spewers of baseless conspiracy theories?
“More than 1,900 former Justice Dept. employees again call for Barr’s resignation
May 11, 2020 at 8:04 a.m. PDT
More than 1,900 former Justice Department employees on Tuesday repeated a call for William P. Barr to step down as attorney general, asserting in an open letter he had “once again assaulted the rule of law” by moving to drop the case against President Trump’s former national security adviser Michael T. Flynn.
The letter, organized by the nonprofit Protect Democracy, was signed by Justice Department staffers serving in Republican and Democratic administrations dating back to President Eisenhower. The vast majority were former career staffers — rather than political appointees — who worked as federal prosecutors or supervisors at U.S. Attorney Offices across the country or the Justice Department in downtown D.C.
Protect Democracy, which counts Justice Department alumni among its members, has organized several similar letters critical of Barr’s decisions or other Trump administration actions. Most recently, in February, the group collected more than 2,600 signatures on a letter calling for Barr to resign after he intervened to reduce career prosecutors’ sentencing recommendation for Roger Stone, a longtime friend of Trump. Jonathan Kravis, one of the prosecutors involved in Stone’s case who resigned after Barr’s action, wrote in a Washington Post column published Monday that in both matters, “the department undercut the work of career employees to protect an ally of the president, an abdication of the commitment to equal justice under the law.”…”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/attorney-general-william-barr-michael-flynn/2020/05/11/d798302e-92da-11ea-82b4-c8db161ff6e5_story.html
Oops, that’s ONLY 1,900 JD employees…
But, but, but but but but….. Putin doesn’t agree.
Flynn was fired as national security advisor because he lied to the VP and he lied to the FBI. Trump said this, Pence affirmed this, Yates, McCord, a battalion of lawyers and ultimately Flynn himself confirmed this And thus guilty pleadings. Other distortions and lies sprang from these lies ( VP Pence goes on national TV with assurances that discussions with the Soviet ambassador did NOT include sanctions — “They did not discuss anything having to do with the United States’ decision to expel diplomats or impose censure against Russia.”–) and everybody recognized at the time that all this lying was a bad thing. A brief reminder that this was all kind of a touchy subject at the time because telling the Soviets not to worry about sanctions would be the same thing as telling them we really WEREN’T all that upset about them interfering in our elections. No harm, no foul. (Sarcasm intended.) Now the story is that VP Pence is ready to welcome Flynn back to the team because the lying wasn’t really a bad thing .. even though the discussions WERE about sanctions, and the Russians DID interfere in our elections .. and the real problem was that the FBI WANTED him to tell lies. And, besides that, Comey and the FBI are just a bunch of pants-on-fire liars about the Russians and the President themselves, so …
And we’re suppose to take ANY of this seriously? If your 5 and 8 year olds came to you with this story? You’re sending them straight back to their room! Aren’t you?
Trump Derangement Syndrome in full force. Here is an example… A few days ago President Obama said this about the Flynn case, “…“And the fact that there is no precedent that anybody can find for someone who has been charged with perjury just getting off scot-free. That’s the kind of stuff where you begin to get worried that basic – not just institutional norms – but our basic understanding of rule of law is at risk.” Again that is from our former president.
Miguel, have you ever heard of Gen James Cartwright ? My guess is that you never have. Who is he? He was the former vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff under the Obama administration who pleaded guilty to lying to the F.B.I. about his discussions with reporters about Iran’s nuclear program. Just prior to his sentencing…what did President Obama do? Well, of course. He pardoned Gen Cartwright. Strange, I didn’t notice the outcry from the left about this case t the time, it was ignored..and was President Obama lying last week when he said, “…And the fact that there is no precedent that anybody can find for someone who has been charged with perjury just getting off scot-free.” Was that a lie or did he just forget about the pardon? The left’s double standard is always amusing to me.
Whataboutism. Misdirection. False equivalency. Not one of Miguel’s points addressed head-on.
Weaksauce.
Obama should have checked with Putin first, eh Doug….. Unlike Flynn, Cartwrigt admitted to disclosing classified information with the two journalists and lying to the FBI and was found guilty on one count. He also expressed remorse and stated he should not have done so. Flynn’s buddies Putin Sergey made sure Clorox got him off the hook for now. Judge Sullivan might not follow Putin’s orders though and the law provides that the court — not the executive branch — decides whether an indictment may be dismissed. Stay tuned…
Doug, Cartwright’s guilty plea was not removed while Flynn’s would. Barr is kissing Trump’s butt (again) to keep Trump from having to pardon Flynn.
Kathryn, have you even attempted to read any of the released documents? Or do a cursory look into the case against Flynn? I am really dumbfounded by the burying of heads in the sand by the left. It is astonishing to me that anyone could ignore the proven abuse of power of the FBI leadership. Is your hatred for the president so deep that you are willing to overlook and not even consider the validity of what has been released and what is claimed happened?
The insane ultra partisanship has got to end…it is tearing up this country. The fact that you can excuse Obama’s general for lying and can accept his pardon…and be outraged over the dropping of Flynn’s case is a good example
Baloney… Criminal Flynn, goes into a bank, gets caught on the way out holding the bag, admits the he robed the bank, twice, and then blames it on the cops that catch him! In this case it’s colluding with Russians, and then lying about it to the FBI, twice! Now trump – I mean Barr says he cannot prove charges to which Mr. Flynn has twice pleaded guilty in court — and for which there is ample evidence!
Doug, I know you’re a trump supporter and hey, it’s a free country. But I doubt you are a lawyer let alone a DA, a federal prosecutor or a FBI agent. Fact is, over 2000 federal prosecutors – many or most of them conservatives – have read the documents and like Mueller – who read thousands of documents – they understand this case law and the documents more than you, I or Kathryn for that mater, ever could or will comprehend in a life time. And they aren’t buying trump’s, I mean Barr’s baloney about Flynn.
But, the good news is that today, trump’s demand to drop Flynn’s guilty pleads has been put on ice by Judge Sullivan and he has the so authority to do so, not trump or his lawyer Barr. As far a what’s tearing up the country, most people would say it’s trump and the trumpublican’s that empower trump’s lawlessness, his catastrophic Covid 19 response and his attempt to divide and conquer with lies, raicsism, and record of criminal activity. In fact, I think if trump was even half the man he say’s he is, he would have just pardoned Flynn instead of wimping out and having Barr do it for him.
A Pew Research poll done a few months ago stated 32 percent of Republicans and GOP-leaning voters say Trump has “definitely” or “probably” done illegal things since he launched his campaign for president. But even among that smaller group of more Trump-critical voters, they strongly oppose removing him from office. Fully 59 percent of those who believe Trump has probably committed crimes say he should not be removed, while just 38 percent say he should. You and your fellow trump supporters seem to be fine with trump and over 5 of his close advisors and 14 Trump others who have been indicted or imprisoned since the days when the first-time candidate promised that he would only hire “the best people.”
Sure, we know, it’s Hillary and Obama… Lock them up and Obama is a Muslim from Africa – that’s what lunched trump’s political carrier – but even top trump supporters in the Senate aren’t buying trump’s Obamagate. trump’s aggressive campaign to encourage sweeping investigations of his predecessor Barack Obama was met with a unanimous response from Senate Republicans: No thanks… Oh my goodness.
Kathryn — The false equivalencies Doug draws between Cartwright and Flynn are absurd. Cartwright pled guilty to lying to the FBI about the timing and location of meetings with a journalist, and that’s all. He was never charged with revealing secrets or any other crime or impropriety.
By the time Flynn was elevated by Trump from senior campaign advisor to National Security Advisor, he was already so tainted by his dealings with Russia that he had been under investigation for quite some time. He was pressured by Trump to resign just 24 days into Trump’s presidency, having been caught lying to the FBI and VP Pence about the nature of previous conversations with Russia’s ambassador to the U.S. during the Obama administration (phone conversations that were intercepted by U.S. intelligence). It’s clear that Flynn violated the Logan Act, which bars U.S. citizens from negotiating with foreign adversaries regarding disputes with the U.S., though Trump refuses to disclose the details.
Trump claimed at the time that he’d had no way of knowing at the time that Flynn was a bad actor. But President Obama had urged Trump to his face during the transition not to hire Flynn because of Flynn’s shadiness, Russian connections, and unclear allegiances. Trump simply chose to ignore Obama.
Both generals lied to the FBI. That’s where the similarities end.
Thanks, Steve. I’m glad you have the energy to write comprehensive comments.
Trump chose to ignore Obama’s advice concerning Flynn way back in early. 2017. Now trump and pence are very pro flynn (again) — ever since trump’s crooked personal AG- barr submitted a motion to dismiss flynn’s two guilty pleas. Now of course trump’s vomiting out “Obamagate.” daily. What a Classless and disgusting moron. Flynn, trump , barr are three shady dirtbags, for certain.
Let’ see what Judge Sullivan eventually says.
https://apnews.com/ebcd45c5d89ac3cf8cc61ed3d6e1ac1a
Why on earth do you think Trump should have accepted Obama’s advice? Would you have thought that Obama should have listened to Bush’s advice? And just out of curiosity, why do you believe Barr is a ‘shady dirtbag’? What examples do you have that you can show me that Barr is a ‘shady dirtbag’. My guess is that all you have is the fact that he works for Trump. Do you have anything else?
In addition, why do you believe the Obama administration is innocent of any wrong doing? Are you that partisan that you can’t fathom a Democrat doing anything wrong? More and more information is coming out about this Russia investigation that is troubling…more and more information that you will undoubtedly ignore.
Doug Cook,
William Barr isn’t supposed to be “working for Trump” – he should be protecting the interests of the American public. However, your Freudian slip was correct – Barr is nothing but another corrupt Trump toady.
He deliberately concealed and misrepresented the findings of the Mueller Report.
He was slithering around behind the scenes to aid Trump in blackmailing a foreign president to manufacture non-existent dirt on a political rival.
He’s been releasing Trump’s criminal cronies from prison right and left, while leaving people who committed less serious offenses in connection with the same criminal cases (and who Trump doesn’t like) behind bars. And of course there’s quite a bit more.
Barr is not only a “sleazy dirtbag” (who two thousand employees of the Justice Department believe should be fired and disbarred), but he’s also looney as hell.
Patrecia, I should have said “appointed by Trump” …not “working for Trump”. When Obama’s AG was asked about if he planned on leaving the administration, this is what Holder said, “…”I’m still enjoying what I’m doing, there’s still work to be done. I’m still the President’s wing-man, so I’m there with my boy. So we’ll see,”
My guess you weren’t concerned about Holder being the presidents ‘wingman’
With all the new information coming out about how Flynn was setup and led into a perjury trap, how he was illegally wire tapped (Remember when you all laughed when Trump brought up wiretapping)…if Trump knew about all this, he wouldn’t have let Flynn go.
“…though Trump refuses to disclose the details.” He doesn’t have to, the FBI wiretapped Flynn’s calls to the Russian ambassador, they know what he said word by word, which is why they didn’t charge him with the Logan act.
I’m just flabbergasted how you and others can ignore this abuse of power by the FBI. I know you won’t look into the details of what happened, details that should scare ALL Americans. But your hatred of the president allows you to ignore these abuses.
But let’s look at the Logan Act, Patrecia. The Logan Act, then, was passed to punish political adversaries for attempting to get involved in international politics with agendas other than the president’s. This conversation between Kislyak and Flynn took place in late December 2016, AFTER Trump won the presidential election and just weeks before he’d take office. Flynn was part of Trump’s transition team and was representing the incoming administration.
So even in the context of the Logan Act’s stated purpose, it doesn’t make sense to apply it to Flynn. Remember… The intent was to prevent outsiders from undermining the president’s foreign policy goals. It’s absurd to use it against an incoming official who merely pointed out that one of the outgoing president’s policies isn’t likely to stay in place.
Dang it! No matter how many times I try to proof … There’s always those typos.
Interesting account of how close America was to avoiding utter disaster (before trump intervened on 2/24, as reported). As to the responsibility of the other three, you should consider that each of them was chosen to provide trump the most political benefits, not because they were the most qualified candidates for three of the most important jobs in America, in 2020.
“The four men responsible for America’s COVID-19 test disaster
The White House’s inability to track the disease as it spread across the nation crippled the government’s response and led to the worst disaster this country has faced in nearly a century
Dr. Robert Redfield, the director of the Centers for Disease Control, flanked Donald Trump at the podium in the White House briefing room. It was February 29th, the day of the first reported U.S. death from the coronavirus, and the president fielded an urgent question: “How should Americans prepare for this virus?” a reporter asked. “Should they go on with their daily lives? Change their routine? What should they do?”
In that moment, America was flying blind into a pandemic; the virus was on the loose, and nobody quite knew where. The lives of tens of thousands hinged on the advice about to be delivered by the president and his top public-health advisers. Trump began: “Well, I hope they don’t change their routine,” before he trailed off, and, quite uncharacteristically, called on an expert to finish the response. “Bob?” he said. “Do you want to answer that?”
A tall man, with a tan, freckled head, and a snow-white chinstrap beard, Redfield stepped to the podium. “The risk at this time is low,” Redfield told the country. “The American public needs to go on with their normal lives.”
This reassurance came at precisely, and tragically, the wrong time. With a different answer, much of the human devastation that was about to unfold in the United States would have been avoidable. Academic research from Imperial College in London, modeling the U.S. response, estimates that up to 90 percent of COVID-19 deaths could have been prevented had the U.S. moved to shut down by March 2nd. Instead, administration leaders dragged their feet for another two weeks, as the virus continued a silent, exponential assault. By early May, more than 75,000 Americans were dead.
Even as he spoke, Redfield knew the country should be taking a different course. The Coronavirus Task Force had resolved to present the president with a plan for mitigation efforts, like school and business closures, on February 24th, but reportedly reversed course after Trump exploded about the economic fallout…”
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/The-Four-Men-Responsible-For-America-s-COVID-19-15259790.php
I’m not a lawyer, but you do not need to be a lawyer to see, read and understand what a colossal breach of the rule of law the DOJ is promoting with Flynn, and with their lap dog relationship with trump.
The judge can dismiss Barr’s request.
At that point trump would need to pardon the criminal General.
A pardon does not exonerate the person. Flynn’s guilty admission stands.
Fauci’s Senate testimony begins in a few minutes. It should at least be a relief to not have trump standing behind him and interrupting him with inane comments.
Poor guy. A lifetime of distinguished service, that will forever be stained by his decision to collaborate with trumpism. IMO, the sooner he resigns in protest, the less the stench of trump will follow him through history.
“Anthony Fauci testifies at Senate coronavirus hearing LIVE
Anthony Fauci will testify remotely before the Senate on May 12 about the U.S. government’s response to the coronavirus pandemic. (The Washington Post)
The Washington Post is providing this important information about the coronavirus for free…
Top federal health officials will be pressed during a highly anticipated Senate hearing Tuesday on whether the country is ready to reopen, with Anthony S. Fauci, the nation’s top infectious-disease expert, expected to warn that moving too quickly could lead to “needless suffering and death.”
The panel’s chairman and witnesses plan to appear remotely in an unusual session that will include the first congressional testimony from Fauci, a key member of the White House task force, since President Trump declared the coronavirus crisis a national emergency on March 13.
Scheduled to appear alongside Fauci are Stephen Hahn, head of the Food and Drug Administration; Robert Redfield, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and Brett Giroir, an assistant secretary at the Department of Health and Human Services who is in charge of coronavirus testing…”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/?reload=true
BTW, the Fauci hearings were scheduled at this time By the trumpists to draw attention away from:
“Listen: Supreme Court Hears Cases Involving Trump’s Taxes, Financial Records
May 12, 20205:02 AM ET
Heard on Morning Edition
Nina Totenberg at NPR headquarters in Washington, D.C., May 21, 2019. (photo by Allison Shelley)
NINA TOTENBERG
President Trump’s financial records from the period before he entered the White House are under scrutiny in the latest Supreme Court showdown.
History, politics and law are converging at the Supreme Court on Tuesday, as the justices confront questions about the limits of presidential, congressional and judicial power.
At issue are three cases involving subpoenas — some issued by congressional committees, and one by a New York grand jury in a criminal case. All call for the production of Donald Trump’s financial records, mainly from the period before he was president, and all issued not to Trump, but to banks and accounting firms he did business with.
How the court decides these cases could dramatically change the balance of power among the three branches of government, thus shifting the American system of checks and balances.
The oral arguments begin at 10 a.m. ET. Listen to them live here…”
https://www.npr.org/2020/05/12/853450751/supreme-court-to-hear-cases-involving-trumps-taxes-financial-records
Senicide, now that’s a new term. Apparently we seniors are worthless and taking up space that could go to other more worthy groups.
I am 78 with COPD and use a CPAP. I just had my pacemaker batteries replaced a year ago. Before I stake myself out in the desert for the coyotes to come and remove me I would like to point out a few things this seemingly worthless person does, and I am not alone as other expendable seniors are doing the same.
I get up early and fix coffee and empty the dishwasher and feed the dog. I fix breakfast for my 7 year old granddaughter so her mother can go to work at a hospital and grandma can sleep in. Our daughter and grandkids live with us because of the unaffordable housing created by unscrupulous landlords and city officials. They talk affordable housing to get grants and pay workers less then when they get those grants that affordable housing money goes into their greedy pockets.
My retirement checks fund the housing and medical commitments and that would end if the coyotes ate me. The Left claims the Right want to take away my pensions but they have been claiming that for fifty years. Even if that left false hope did happen it wouldn’t happen until after the worms had consumed my worthless body.
No I think I will hang around for awhile if only to p*ss the survivors off.
Hahahahahahaha. Flynn and Barr may yet get their due. It is being reported that the judge in the Flynn case is considering a contempt charge against Flynn for perjury because Flynn said under oath that he was guilty and now he’s saying he’s not. It also looks like the judge is not going to go along with the DOJ’s motion to drop the case. What I find so satisfying is that Barr may have made Flynn’s situation worse.
Sorry Kathryn, your reporting is wrong…big surprise there. All the judge said is that he’s willing to hear outsiders weigh in on what should happen next, what’s called amicus briefs. Nothing more…nothing less.
Not true. That’s yesterday’s reporting.
Because we routinely intercept phone calls made by the Russian Ambassador, Flynn was recorded speaking with the ambassador while Obama was still POTUS. He asked Russia to not counter Obama’s sanctions, suggesting the sanctions would be reviewed and probably tossed when Trump took office. Violation of the Logan Act. Illegal.
Flynn then lied about it when interviewed by the FBI, which was concerned that the violation of the Logan Act might make him vulnerable to Russian blackmail. Lying to the FBI when it’s conducting an investigation. Illegal.
Flynn confessed under oath to committing the crime of lying to the FBI. Now he’s saying that he lied when he said he was guilty. Perjury is illegal.
Barr dropped the charges because he said Flynn’s lies weren’t material to a valid FBI investigation. That might be true if the FBI had been surveilling Flynn for political “gotcha” acts and caught him doing something illegal, but that’s not what happened. The FBI was routinely surveilling the Russian Ambassador, and Flynn got caught committing a crime when he walked himself into that surveillance. The legal theory that LE can’t act to enforce the law in such a case is patently absurd.
Barr is a political toady, operating to produce advantageous campaign fodder for Trump. He’s demolished the independence of the Justice Department. Just another bad actor in a cast of bad actors.
Yep, Kathryn’s correct; looks like the Flynn ‘N Barr “Nothin’ more…nothin’ less” show may not be goin’ on the road just yet.
Thanks, Candace.
By focusing entirely on the Logan Act ultra-right-wingers like Doug can pretend that there weren’t numerous legitimate reasons (having nothing to do with the Logan Act) for conducting this investigation in the manner it was conducted, which is just a disingenuous attempt on their part to draw attention away from the actual evidence:
https://www.emptywheel.net/2020/05/09/the-logan-act-is-just-the-cherry-on-mike-flynns-foreign-agent-sundae/
Doug — Your four questions directed at me above have been addressed, debated, explained and logically answered by informed and articulate commenters (many times) on this forum. Commenters who are far more up to speed and smarter than I am.
I do not post out of mere hatred for trump, barr and flynn. However, I Do use all small-case letters when posting their names and reject the ways they operate. (Turtleman could be included as well).
Calling attention in colorful ways to events that draw public awareness and attention is constructive, IMO..
Gary…being on this forum has really opened my eyes with what has been called Trump Derangement Syndrome. Barr is a boogeyman simply because he was appointed by President Trump. You can’t even give me a reason why you think he is a ‘shady dirtbag’. When Barr was confirmed as AG under the Bush administration, he was approved unanimously by the Senate Judiciary Committee, and was confirmed by voice vote by the full Senate. Not even a need to have a tallied vote in the Senate, and he served with honor. But under Trump, the vote was split among party lines. What was the difference? The difference is he was appointed by Trump. That is all it takes for you to call him a ‘shady dirtbag’.
Again, I will repeat that I am flabbergasted by anyone who chooses to ignore what Comey and the FBI leadership did to the Trump team. Abuse of power is ok in your mind as long as it hurts Trump. That is TDS. Someone on here is already blaming Trump for the trillions of dollars of new debt from the Covid-19 relief packages, written and passed by the House and Senate. Could you imagine the outrage if he would have vetoed that package? All this is doing, this nonsense from the left, is causing the middle and independents to rally around the president. What you are doing with your petty lower case letters, and the rejection of virtually everything the president does or says, is exactly what is going to propel him to a second term. Especially with your candidate that has without a doubt lost a fair amount of mental acuity.
Watergate and convicted criminal Attorney General John Mitchell made it clear to America that Attorneies General and the Justice Department needed to have independence rather than work to protect the interests of the POTUS. That new standard lasted about 50 years—through both Republican and Democratic administrations—until Barf (actual typo, but I’m not going to fix it).
Barr is widely vilified *not* because he was appointed by Trump, but because he’s done away with the independence of the Justice Department. Only the most willfully deluded of Trump sycophants would not only fail to recognize Barr’s abhorrent repurposing of the Justice Department, but also fail to even recognize that this is the foundation of the criticism.
Doug Cook,
I gave you several reasons above as to why the “sleazy dirtbag” label was appropriately applied to Barr. Thousands of Justice Department employees, bar associations, etc. are demanding Barr’s resignation and disbarrment with good reason.
I’ve been trying to imagine how our history books will describe Trump’s scandal and abuse-ridden presidency. Historians won’t be able to ignore the fact that Trump is clearly demented, delusional, and sociopathic (per thousands of mental health professionals), that he openly incited a phenomenal amount of racist and xenophobic violence, and that he defended and praised Nazis and other domestic terrorists at every opportunity.
I believe they will see his impeachment for what it is – his creation of an entire shadow government and other abuses of power to blackmail a foreign president into manufacturing non-existent dirt on a political rival, which integrity-less Republicans dismissed for political expediency.
I doubt it will escape attention that Trump surrounded himself with criminals of various kinds, or that Trump himself has fought tooth-and-nail to hide his financial information from the American public to conceal his connections and conflicts of interest.
He’s also a wildly dishonest businessman, an admitted serial sex criminal, and his fascist appointments of totally unqualified religious extremists to head nearly every federal agency and commission is reminiscent of other would-be dictators (which he openly admires and imagines himself to be). I wouldn’t be at all surprised to someday see a chapter about Trump’s presidency titled “The American Hitler”.
Anyone think the recent upturn in reported daily American COVID-19 deaths, and the increases in total deaths projected by most all the models, just might be worth some comment?
147,040 COVID-19 deaths
projected by August 4, 2020
https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america
Has any respected medical journal ever before stared that removal of an American President is absolutely necessary as a public health measure?
“As the confirmed U.S. death toll surpassed 85,000, one of the world’s oldest and best-known medical journals slammed President Trump’s “inconsistent and incoherent national response” to the novel coronavirus pandemic and accused the administration of relegating the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to a “nominal” role.
The Lancet’s unsigned editorial concluded that Trump should be replaced, saying: “Americans must put a president in the White House come January, 2021, who will understand that public health should not be guided by partisan politics.”…”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/05/15/coronavirus-update-us/
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31140-5/fulltext
*Sigh*
Once more with feeling, for those who didn’t get it the first time:
Don’t attack each other here. That includes name-calling, character assassination, and general ad hominem attacks.
Tempting though it may be, don’t do it.
Barbara,
Since one of my comment from last night is missing, I will assume you are referencing it.
Since nothing I wrote violates any consistent objective standards I can discern, I’ll re-post excerpts to try to determine exactly what it is you thought you found objectionable.
“…For first place on the list of the “top ten” prevarications of Mr. Cook in the comment (May 14, 2020 at 4:22 pm) above, I nominate:
RE Barr’s gross malfeasance in his first term as AG and the criminal conspiracy he ran from that office, summarized by Mr. Cook as:
“…he served with honor…”
“…Iran-Contra
In late 1992, Independent Counsel Lawrence Walsh, who had been chosen to investigate the Iran–Contra affair, found documents in the possession of Reagan’s former defense secretary, Caspar Weinberger, which Walsh said was “evidence of a conspiracy among the highest-ranking Reagan Administration officials to lie to Congress and the American public.”[54][55] Weinberger was set to stand trial on felony charges on January 5, 1993.[54][56] His “indictment said Mr. Weinberger’s notes contradicted Mr. Bush’s assertions that he had only a fragmentary knowledge of the arms secretly sold to Iran in 1985 and 1986 in exchange for American hostages in Lebanon.”[56][55][57] According to Walsh, then-president Bush might have been called as a witness.[58]On December 24, 1992, during his final month in office, Bush, on the advice of Barr, pardoned Weinberger,[15][59] along with five other administration officials who had been found guilty on charges relating to the Iran–Contra affair.[15][60][61][54] Barr was consulted extensively regarding the pardons, and especially advocated for pardoning Weinberger.[62]Walsh complained about the move insinuating that Bush on Barr’s advice had used the pardons to avoid testifying and stating that: “The Iran-contra cover-up, which has continued for more than six years, has now been completed.”[63] In 2003, he wrote an account of the investigation in his book, Firewall: The Iran-Contra Conspiracy and Cover-Up.Because of this and Barr’s unwillingness to appoint an independent counsel to look into a second scandal known as Iraqgate, New York Times writer William Safire began to refer to Barr as “Coverup-General Barr.”…”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Barr#Iran-Contra
Please read the entire entry, though I’d say ‘shady dirtbag’ is a quite adequate description of Barr’s lifelong display of depravity.And it also explains precisely why trump wanted someone like Barr heading up the Justice department, to assist trump in his own assorted criminal enterprises.
Discussing issues is fine.
Making negative character judgments about another commenter because they hold views diametrically opposed to yours is not.
I am done with this subject. I am also done with the finger-pointing at others here.
Last word on this:
If a comment is worded specifically at another person, saying “X is a liar/stupid/ignorant/a bitch/etc,” that is unacceptable and will be removed.
If a comment says, “What you said is wrong and here’s why,” that’s acceptable.
Reading insults into a comment – i.e. “Mortimer basically said I lied” – is not the same thing as someone actually saying, “Petunia, you’re a liar.”
Waiting for someone to apologize in the comments section? Feel free, but it’s not likely to happen.
This is rapidly devolving into nitpicking. As far as I know, you’re all grownups here, and schoolyard tattling isn’t a good look on adults.
Barbara, yours is a thankless job but this kind of devolution into the gutter happens even on groups that filter their members. I remember on Bethel Affiliated a poster commented how her third grade child came home and said his teacher played religious music during class. She posted an email she sent to the school and the weak email the teacher sent back. The comments became so toxic with name calling from other posters, all who hate Bethel, that Rachael deleted the whole section. The offensive religious music was a classic Bach composition and had nothing to do with Bethel.
Thank you for doing an excellent service.
Thanks, Bruce.
Doug…. Again,Baloney… Convicted Criminal Flynn gets caught colluding with Russians – Sergey – and then lying about it to the FBI, twice! Here’s what almost funny; Flynn was the Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency back in 2016, he clearly understood that all calls from the commies, especially from one of Putin’s main guys, ARE TAPPED and TAPED!
It’s like duh…. So he calls the commies on trump’s behalf, says don’t retaliate because Obama has kicked all your commie spies out of the US after 15 of our Intelligence Agencies found you worked to rig our elections, we’ll take care of you and drop the scansions as soon as we take office. And what’s so funny is that of course the FIB heard the tape, like they do all conversations with commie government officials, so they went to Flynn and read him parts of the call transcripts … it’s like “did you say…… and Flynn goes “nope.” Flynn denied it all, trump fired him, then wound up in court, lied in court, then pleated guilty – twice – and now trump I mean Barr says he cannot prove charges to which Mr. Flynn has twice pleaded guilty in court — and for which there is ample evidence!
BUT HERE IS THE DEAL. trump is so desperate to remove focus on his catastrophic so called presidency that is helping people get sick and die as well as creating a great depression, that he’s going crazy, it’s about HRC, it’s about Democratic governors, it’s about the Chinese, it’s about the deep state; in fact, on Mother’s Day, instead of talking about Mother’s, he spewed 126 tweets on his long time fixation now called Obamagate! Hey Doug, remember? It started with trump calling Obama a black Museum, born in Africa and now it’s “you know what he did…” Like did what? All he can say is, “Some terrible things happened … You know what the crime is.” Really? You know what really drives him nuts? Obama’s rating is in the upper 50s… trump’s 43. If Obama ran today he would kick trump’s butt.
Barr, who you correctly call trump’s lawyer – he dose not work for the American people – has a new job, discredit the trump – commie connection and discredit Muller – more a American hero that trump could ever be – save Rodger Stone and Flynn, and now, prosecute Obama. They tried to get Senator Graham to call Obama into the Senate and Graham pushed back against trump’s Obamagate demand saying, “be carful what you wish for…” Graham knows that if Obama testified he would mop the floor with trump and his cronies, including Barr.
Doug, please keep arguing for your president, he needs all the help he can get and it gives us the chance to show people that are on the fence about voting for trump a chance to expose him for what he is…. A charlatan the has used campaign cash and his people to pay off his hookers, who WAS NOT Exonerated for collusion with the Commies, a catastrophic “leader” that has lied so many thousands and thousands times it makes one’s head swim, a lying Covid -19 failure that incompetently lead us to a depression and a likely death count that is over 100,00 so far. A people like Barr are helping him do it.
Oh, my goodness indeed.
And now — Rick Bright’s testimony confirms our worst fears.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/05/15/brights-testimony-confirms-our-worst-fears/
“We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China, and we have it totally under control” 1/22/20
“The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!” 2/24/20
“Nobody would ever believe a thing like that’s possible. Nobody could have ever seen something like this coming” (actual quote) 3/25/20
“It’s going to be up to the governors”. April 2020
When trump says that the virus will just go away, what he means is that he’s confident his lies (marketed by Fox) will overwhelm the facts. The current coronavirus death toll in the U.S, is 87,822
Today- Be aware. Trump will lie about the death toll.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/05/15/trump-will-lie-about-death-toll-kamala-harris-has-way-stop-him/
“…this is not a major threat to the people of the United States and this is not something that the citizens of the United States right now should be worried about.”- Dr Fauci, Jan 22
“…”That’s what we’re trying to do today is to say everything is fine here. We know that there is concern surrounding tourism, traveling all throughout the world, but we think it’s very safe to be in Chinatown and hope that others will come.” – Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, Jan 31
“… “We understand that this may be concerning, but based on what we know now, we still believe the immediate risk to the American public is low.” CDC press release, Jan 30
“…The only people who need masks are those who are already infected to keep from exposing others.” – Dr Fauci, Feb 17th
“And if I had a boat
I’d go out on the ocean
And if I had a pony
I’d ride him on my boat
And we could all together
Go out on the ocean
I said me upon my pony on my boat.” – Lyle Lovett
Sigh. Take good care everybody.
Love Lyle and that song.
As many states are easing restrictions I wonder why the officials are focusing on barbers, beach goers, and others violating social distancing.
In Arizona, like the rest of the nation, 50% of the COVI deaths have been in nursing homes, some states are 70%. And hundreds, maybe thousands, more were in home care, nobody knows. AZ 15 has a lawsuit against officials to find out where these deaths are coming from but have been blocked by the courts citing privacy laws.
It is no wonder that many are protesting the stay at home restrictions when the officials making those rules seem to be ignoring transparency on where the deaths are. Catching COVI is not a death sentence for one estimate said 80% of the population. Arizona is setting up a tracing group to follow where the cases are, this should help.
The Navajo Nation is protesting the reopening of the Grand Canyon because a huge influx of tourists could wipe out supplies at stores already having a hard time filling the needs of the Nation.
Bruce, that is baffling to me too. There is evidence that say people are significantly less likely to get the covid-19 while outside. Experts are increasingly confident in evidence showing that the covid-19 spreads much more readily indoors than outdoors. Other experts were showing us fancy graphs about ‘flattening the curve’. The faster the infection curve rises, the quicker the local health care system gets overloaded beyond its capacity to treat people. Well, except for a few exceptions, we never overloaded hospitals capacity. Temporary hospitals sat empty. The Navy hospital ships sat empty. Hospitals are laying off employees.
We can’t continue this lockdown indefinitely, it’s just not going to be psychologically or economically feasible. There are 25 million people out of a job (including me) because of the shutdown. How many small businesses will never come back? That are gone for good? Me returning to my job is predicated on what Los Angeles does. If they remain shutdown, I’m screwed. And right now, there doesn’t seem to be any scientific evidence to close beaches and continue the shutdown. We cannot mitigate the risk to zero.
The Trump administration just shut down the Seattle Coronavirus Assessment Network, backed by Bill Gates and the University of Washington. The goal was to distribute COVID-19 tests to people both with and without symptoms to get determine how widespread COVID-19 is in the Seattle area, given the lack of systematic testing in the United States.
Trump has said previously that such testing isn’t the responsibility of the federal government, and punted to the states. But Washington steps up to implement a program based on what it perceives as its own need to know, and the Trump administration shuts it down.
Gosh, it’s almost like the Trumpsters don’t want us to know what that study might reveal, huh?.
SCAN has been in talks with the FDA since early March to get emergency approval for their at-home tests, but did not get that approval before the FDA started cracking down on all the testing scams.
Another at-home test, Everlywell, has been approved so “Trump” doesn’t have a problem with at home testing.
Don’t you realize Richie that it is always Trump’s fault for everything? Now Trump is being blamed for increasing the debt from the Covid-19 relief bills. Could you imagine the outcry if the president vetoed the bills passed by Congress?
Gee, I wonder why the Trump administration is slow-rolling SCAN’s approval process? March…….April…….May……June, maybe?
Remember when Trump touted fast-tracking all the approval processes to get shit done? Maybe it has something to do with politicizing the approval process. Maybe hiding the truth. Maybe a friend of Trump has a competing testing process. Maybe we’ll find out some day. Not from any of the federal watchdogs, of course—Trump keeps firing them. Nothing to see there, though, right Doug?
Trump isn’t being blamed for the need for the CARES Act. He’s being blamed for the denial and inattention that made the outbreak in this country so disproportionately huge, and following from that, the CARES Act much costlier than it needed to be.
Umm Doug. Hey Thanks to those Tax cuts, we were already running massive deficits. Bailing out industries that pocketed the cash that was supposed to “trickle down” is madness. Privatize the profits. Socialize the losses. Thanks guys.
Thanks to the tax cuts? Do you believe we had no deficit before the tax cuts? We had a $20 trillion debt before Trump took office. In order to make tax cuts work, you must have a cut in federal spending. What federal agency (besides the military) are you willing to cut to help balance the budget?
We had deficit spending before the tax cuts, so by Doug’s reasoning, it was fine for Trump to double-down.
Trump had GOP majorities in the House and Senate when he passed the tax cuts, so by Doug’s reasoning, it’s Jimmy’s fault for not identifying commensurate spending cuts.
Obama added $9 trillion to the federal debt. Much of that was during his first two years, when he was check-booking his way out of the Bush II Recession that he inherited—the deepest recession since the Great Depression of the 1930s.
Trump inherited a cooking economy. The CBO projected that he would add $4 trillion to the debt by the end of his first term, thanks to his irresponsible tax cuts, which hugely favored earners in the 95-99% class. The CBO also projected that Trump would match Obama’s $9 trillion by the end of his second term.
That was before Trump completely botched COVID-19. The CARES Act will add another $2 trillion. God knows how much his bungling will add due to lost revenue.
I’m not even going to go into how much Republican administrations since Reagan add to the federal debt as a percentage of GDP, compared with Democratic administrations. I’ve done it before, and Doug immediately says it’s Congress that does that, in spite of the fact that budget proposals come from the White House, including proposals for tax cuts.
You do realize the major infrastructure built in this country was built at a time when the top tax rate was in excess of 90%? That was in the good old days of Eisenhower. A republican. Who also warned of excessive military spending. And look. Clinton had four years of balanced budgets. With surpluses. So tell me again how taxes are too high, and why we should give a handout to business who squandered their tax breaks on stock buybacks. Perhaps we should let the free market prevail?
Mr Wilson…There is a common misconception that high-income Americans are not paying much in taxes compared to what they used to. The top tax rate of 90% didn’t mean anything. Between 1950 and 1959, the top 1 percent of taxpayers paid an average of 42.0 percent of their income in federal, state, and local taxes. Since then, the average effective tax rate of the top 1 percent has declined slightly overall to about 30% today. .
But the question should be..why on earth would it be ok for any government to take 90% of someones earnings? Why would you be in favor of that? I’m certain you wouldn’t want Uncle Sam to take 90% of what you make, correct?
Eisenhower did NOT warn against excessive military spending. That is a rather simplistic interpretation of what he actually warned us about. His plea was for American citizens to be vigilant in monitoring the military-industrial complex. His fear that the military industrial complex though necessary, was vulnerable to abuse of power. As a 20 + year veteran of the USAF…I totally agree with that warning.
And finally, Clinton did not balance the budget. Clinton fought Republicans every inch of the way in balancing the budget. During the budget fights, it was Clinton that said “balancing the budget is not one of our top priorities.” Give credit to Newt Gringich and the GOP and their Contract with America. They were the ones that stopped Clinton’s spending proposals that were mostly tossed overboard.
I will concede that in today’s political environment the GOP has given up on being fiscally conservative. They have joined the Democrats in being free spenders. It is just odd to me that Democrats can criticize a GOP president for increasing the deficit, but a Democrat president gets a pass. I’ll ask you the same question I ask every Democrat that brings up this subject…I never seem to get an answer, though. What federal agency and/or program are you willing to cut (other than the military) to balance the budget? What tough decisions are you willing to make?
Nobody gets a free pass when it comes to the federal debt, but facts are facts.
When Reagan took office the federal debt was less than $1 trillion. It took ~200 years to accumulate that debt. Using ridiculous supply-side graphs, he explained how cutting taxes would lead to prosperity and increased revenues, wiping out deficit spending and paying down the debt. Instead, he tripled the federal debt. Paired with Bush I’s single term, the two of them nearly quadrupled the federal debt.
Clinton added another $1.4 trillion, but deficit spending largely declined during his terms and by the end of his second term we were poised to start paying down the federal debt. Algore ran on a platform of paying down the federal debt. Bush II ran on a platform of returning to Reaganomics, including huge tax cuts. Bush II “won” and added almost $6 trillion to the federal debt, managing to crash the economy while doing so.
Obama added $8.5 trillion to the debt, but much of that was during his first two years in office, trying to checkbook our way out of the Bush II Recession. And he was successful. As a percentage of GNP, his contributions to the federal debt was far lower than Bush II’s.
After inheriting a cooking economy, Orange Mussolini’s policies were projected by the CBO to add almost $6 trillion to the federal debt by the end of is 1st (and hopefully last) term. But that was before he bungled our response to the COVID-19 pandemic. The CARES act will add another $4 trillion, and there’s no telling how much the drop in revenues will add.
Presidents develop budgets and tax policies. You can’t excuse them from responsibility for those budgets and policies. Yes, Clinton and Obama could have sharpened their pencils—but we all know that discretionary spending makes up a minority of the budget. The blame for the VAST majority of the federal debt lands in the laps of GOP administrations, and that’s according to CBO data, not partisan opinion. “Scoreboard,” as they say.
“Reagan proved deficits don’t matter.” — V.P Dick Cheney, 2004
He was saying that deficits don’t matter to voters. That was his excuse for irresponsibly returning to disproved and discredited Reaganomics.
According to the NYT, the primary issue the FDA had with the SCAN testing was that they were returning the results to the patient (thus making it a “diagnostic”). Apparently it’s OK to run the same tests as long as the patients remain in the dark about whether they have, or have had, the virus.
If you’re scratching your head about this … Welcome to the club. So are thousands of patients and medical practitioners. And testing advocates.
So much for Trump’s promise to cut all the red tape in the face of this emergency, huh?
The red tape gets cut only if you’re a red state, perhaps.
That’s typical American medical/government bureaucracy. Walk into LabCorp and try to order yourself a blood test without a doctor’s authorization and you’ll be turned away (unless you happen to live in red state Arizona where Theranos shelled out millions to get special approval to work directly with customers).
What does it say about you when you’re the head of the Executive Branch and you think it’s prudent to fire all the government watchdogs? I mean, what’s the Occam’s razor explanation—not the Cook-concocted, M.C. Escher-drawing-resembling, convoluted “just so” explanation?
https://www.npr.org/2020/05/16/857334790/president-trump-removes-state-department-inspector-general-steve-linick
Hey Steve, that’s a pretty easy question to answer. It says we have a criminal syndicate running the executive branch of our government. We also have an attorney general that does not work for the people of the United States but works for Trump and his Trumpublicsns. It also says they will do anything they can to shield their illegal activities and protect themselves. It also says that Nixon and Watergate didn’t even meet kindergarten standards compared to what we have going on today, heck that was preschool.
The real question is what does it say about the people that continue to support Trump and his criminals? And sadly, what does it say about all too many people that simply turn their head, and then turn the TV channel because they don’t care. We’re living in very dangerous times.
The Saturday Night Massacre refers to a series of events that took place on the evening of Saturday, October 20, 1973, during the Watergate scandal. Nixon ordered his A.G. Elliot Richardson to fire Special Prosecutor Archibald Cox. Richardson refused and resigned effective immediately. Nixon then ordered Deputy A.G. William Ruckelshaus to fire Cox. Ruckelshaus refused, and also resigned. Nixon then ordered the third-most-senior official at the Justice Department, Solicitor General Robert Bork, to fire Cox. Bork carried out the dismissal as Nixon asked.
A little over a week later, the impeachment process began, leading to Nixon’s resignation.
There could never be a Saturday Night Massacre-like event in the current Trump administration. There isn’t anyone left who would stand up to him on principle. If Trump asked A.G. Barr to start rounding up Democratic leaders for “re-education camp,” Barr would probably ask Chief of Staff Mulvaney for a list.
New Zealand is one of many nations that, having won the “hot war” over COVID-19 using careful planning and administration. It is now transitioning to the near-normal conditions required by the “cold war” that will be necessary until a vaccine or effective treatment is developed.
Contrast the twenty-one total COVID-19 deaths suffered in New Zealand, with the ~hundred thousand deaths in America, and the hundreds of thousands more that are probably inevitable, now that trump, having already prevented America from organizing an effective pandemic defense, has now ordered our national surrender.
“New Zealand edges back to normal after squashing coronavirus in 49 days
..On Feb. 13, a full two weeks before New Zealand’s first confirmed coronavirus case, Ardern and her finance minister, Grant Robertson, were hungry for statistics.
“She approached this like a successful hedge-fund manager would, like someone who understands risk,” said Rodney Jones, an Auckland-based economist who has been sharing his firm’s virus modeling with the prime minister.
“She wanted the data and the modeling, and she recognized the patterns. The government saw early on that this was much more serious than SARS,” Jones said, referring to the coronavirus outbreak that began in China in 2002.
A month later, the models were panning out. Ardern’s government closed the borders. Business leaders urged even more drastic steps.
“The best thing we could do was to lock our country down and get on top of the virus before it got on top of us,” said Rob Fyfe, the former chief executive of Air New Zealand who now serves as the government’s liaison with the business sector.
“In other countries, like the U.S., people assume that the best outcome for the economy is to get it going again,” Fyfe said. “But if states have to lock down again, they will get a far worse economic outcome than if they’d shut down quickly and completely.”
…with the virus close to eliminated here, any cases from now on will be relatively easy to trace. After three days with no new cases, one was reported Friday, a “weak positive” linked to a known cluster.
Verrall cautioned that there is still a risk of infections linked to the current 56 active cases and that small clusters are likely to persist.
“This is a threat that will be with us for a few years,” she said. “We have to have good testing, and it has to happen early in people’s illness so there is no delay in contact tracing. It will take a mind shift.”…”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/new-zealand-edges-back-to-normal-after-routing-coronavirus-in-49-days/2020/05/15/c8f43f46-950e-11ea-87a3-22d324235636_story.html?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most
The map below shows how well individual states are doing in achieving rational preconditions to relaxing social distancing.
Essentially, this is a simplified version of the CDC standards developed a few weeks ago, before trump decried that all scientific standard must be overridden by his political objectives:
https://www.covidexitstrategy.org/
Notice there is no green on the map, as not one of the fifty states meets all criteria for “loosening” social distancing standards.
California has moved back into the red (joining seventeen other states) after having new cases re-accelerate over the last few weeks with more official and non-official (legal and illegal) “loosening up”.
The great success of the state of New York, by so rapidly improving the national statistics, seems to be confusing people about how badly things are now going in many states. For example, California will actually pass New York in new cases per day in the next few days if current trends continue.
And now, a news flash fromb he, “very stable genius.” The video is going viral; president Colrox said this yesterday,“When you test, you have a case. When you test, you find something is wrong with people. If we didn’t do any testing, we would have very few cases…” Brilliant, just completely brilliant. It’s like, “When the fire department responses to a house fire. If they didn’t go put out fires, we would have very few house fires.” Or, When the first responders respond to an auto accident, you have an auto accident! If they didn’t respond to an auto accident, we would have very few auto accidents…” Brilliant there Clorox, but maybe you should cut back a bit on the bleach? You’re losing you frigging mind…
You have to wonder how many of his loyal minions listened to that absolute nonsense and said, “That makes sense.”
As the slaughter of american citizens and the collapse of the American economy both continue under the trump regime, many observers are noting that America, regarded as the World’s sole Superpower only a few years ago, may be plummeting towards another classification, that of a pitiful “failed State”.
“World looks on in horror as Trump flails over pandemic despite claims US leads way
The president’s outlandish behavior as Americans suffer has inspired horror and confusion while alienating allies
The Trump administration has repeatedly claimed that the US is “leading the world” with its response to the pandemic, but it does not seem to be going in any direction the world wants to follow.
Across Europe, Asia, Africa and Latin America, views of the US handling of the coronavirus crisis are uniformly negative and range from horror through derision to sympathy…
“Over more than two centuries, the United States has stirred a very wide range of feelings in the rest of the world: love and hatred, fear and hope, envy and contempt, awe and anger,” the columnist Fintan O’Toole wrote in the Irish Times. “But there is one emotion that has never been directed towards the US until now: pity.”
The US has emerged as a global hotspot for the pandemic, a giant petri dish for the Sars-CoV-2 virus. As the death toll rises, Trump’s claims to global leadership have became more far-fetched. He told Republicans last week that he had had a round of phone calls with Angela Merkel, Shinzo Abe and other unnamed world leaders and insisted “so many of them, almost all of them, I would say all of them” believe the US is leading the way.
None of the leaders he mentioned has said anything to suggest that was true…”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/15/donald-trump-coronavirus-response-world-leaders
“Opinions
The United States is a country to be pitied
Only a handful of nations on Earth have arguably done a worse job of handling the coronavirus pandemic than the United States. What has happened to us? How did we become so dysfunctional? When did we become so incompetent?
The shocking and deadly failures by President Trump and his administration have been well documented — we didn’t isolate, we didn’t test, we didn’t contact trace, we waited too long to lock down. But Trump’s gross unfitness is only part of the problem. The phrase “American exceptionalism” has always meant different things to different people — that this nation should be admired, or perhaps that it should be feared. Not until now, at least in my lifetime, has it suggested that the United States should be pitied.
No amount of patriotism or pride can change the appalling facts. The pandemic is acting as a stress test for societies around the world, and ours is in danger of failing…”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-united-states-is-a-country-to-be-pitied/2020/05/14/d2d98e9c-961e-11ea-91d7-cf4423d47683_story.html
The poor rich folks out there, they just can’t get a break and our Covid Pandemic Bailouts are so unfair to the wealthy. You know, the wealthy are so misunderstood and we need Trump to set it right.
The richest 1% of Americans own 35% of the nation’s wealth. The bottom 80% own just 11% of the nation’s wealth.
In the 1950s and 1960s, when the economy was booming, the wealthiest Americans paid a top income tax rate of 91%. Today, the top rate is 43.4%.
The richest 1% pay an effective federal income tax rate of 24.7% in 2014; someone making an average of $75,000 is paying a 19.7% rate.
The average federal income tax rate of the richest 400 Americans was just 20 percent in 2009.
Taxing investment income at a much lower rate than salaries and wages are taxed loses $1.3 trillion over 10 years.
1,470 households reported income of more than $1 million in 2009 but paid zero federal income taxes on it.
CEOs of major corporations earn nearly 300 times more than an average worker.
30 percent of income inequality is due to unfair taxes and budget cuts to services and benefits.
The largest contributor to increasing income inequality has been changes in income from capital gains and dividends.
I know Redding has so many wealthy folks, so we need to band together and let everyone know, we are the majority and we aren’t going to take being bashed around any longer!. We just need to let Trump fix out economy that Obama broke.
There are some simple-minded commentators on ANC who demand we sacrifice hundreds of thousands of American lives to restore prosperity by ending all “social distancing” public health measures.
What they do not understand is that in this pandemic “..most of the economic contraction is caused by the virus itself and occurs regardless of whether governments mandate social distancing or not…”
The paper below analysis the example of two neighboring nations:
“Pandemic, Shutdown and Consumer Spending: Lessons
from Scandinavian Policy Responses to COVID-19?
…This paper uses transaction data from a large bank in Scandinavia to estimate the effect
of social distancing laws on consumer spending in the COVID-19 pandemic. The analysis
exploits a natural experiment to disentangle the effects of the virus and the laws aiming
to contain it: Denmark and Sweden were similarly exposed to the pandemic but only
Denmark imposed significant restrictions on social and economic activities. We estimate
that aggregate spending dropped by around 25 percent in Sweden and, as a result of
the shutdown, by 4 additional percentage points in Denmark. This implies that most of
the economic contraction is caused by the virus itself and occurs regardless of whether
governments mandate social distancing or not. The age gradient in the estimates suggest
that social distancing reinforces the virus-induced drop in spending for individuals with
low health risk but attenuates it for individuals with high health risk by lowering the
overall prevalence of the virus in the society.
…Our analysis period ends on 5 April 2020. At the time of writing, excess deaths in Denmark
have fallen to almost zero and the Danish government has eased social distancing laws. In
contrast, Sweden has continued to experience excess mortality…”
https://arxiv.org/pdf/2005.04630.pdf?mod=article_inline
Denmark, having concentrated on defeating the virus using social distancing, now appears to be likely to far outstrip Sweden in future economic performance.
On the other hand, Sweden’s death toll is one of the highest in the world, exceeding even that of the USA, and just like in the USA, the slaughter continues:
Sweden 3,743 deaths, 367.57 deaths per million population.
Denmark 551 deaths, 95.04 deaths per million population.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
Denmark avoided most of the pandemic’s infections and deaths, and will likely soon re-emerge from depression, While Sweden is now in much the same miserable situation as the USA, economic depression AND a huge continuing pandemic death toll, with no real improvement visible on the horizon for the self-inflicted disaster.
Is America really too stupid to learn from the successes and failures of other nations?
In the last few days the bad news from Sweden has accelerated along with the pandemic.
Americans should be concerned, because trump’s current plan essentially replicates Sweden’s “decision to have no lockdown … a terrible mistake that no other nation should copy”.
In fact, the USA is already ranked fourth in “deaths per million inhabitants per day on a rolling seven-day average between May 13 and May 20” and trump’s policies could well move us up to number one in number of deaths, in the entire world, in the very near future.
“Sweden becomes country with highest coronavirus death rate per capita
Sweden has now overtaken the UK, Italy and Belgium to have the highest coronavirus per capita death rate in the world, throwing its decision to avoid a strict lockdown into further doubt.
According to figures collated by the Our World in Data website, Sweden had 6.08 deaths per million inhabitants per day on a rolling seven-day average between May 13 and May 20.
This is the highest in the world, above the UK, Belgium and the US, which have 5.57, 4.28 and 4.11 respectively…”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/20/sweden-becomes-country-highest-coronavirus-death-rate-per-capita/
“Skeptical experts in Sweden say its decision to have no lockdown is a terrible mistake that no other nation should copy
…Experts say Sweden’s plan ignores science
…Kampe said much of Sweden’s approach was “not based on facts.”
“If you have a virus that’s totally new, you know very little about it, why don’t you take a step back and say you are trying to infect as few people as possible until we know more?” he said.
“Sweden’s strategy is the opposite: Infect as many people, reach herd immunity.”
He pointed to new things discovered about the virus, including young people experiencing blood clots and strokes and a new inflammatory syndrome that has killed least four children…
‘Don’t copy us’
Kampe said Sweden too had the ingredients for a low death toll: It is not very densely populated, has a high degree of education, and has low rates of diseases like diabetes and obesity.
Be, he said, “and still there are so many deaths.” He continued: “As a physician you don’t accept any unnecessary deaths. But we have thousands. If this continues, we will have tens of thousands.
“I don’t think that it’s something that anyone should copy.”…”
https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-coronavirus-plan-is-a-cruel-mistake-skeptical-experts-say-2020-5
Trump’s dismissal of competent officials show blatant attack on accountability. State Department Inspector General Steve Linick was the 5th IG Trump has fired in the past six weeks, including inspectors general for the intelligence community and the departments of Health and Human Services, Transportation and Defense.
The smell of corruption has become beyond prevalent. Something must give!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/president-trump-stop-acting-like-you-own-the-place/2020/05/19/e2b3e8d2-9a1d-11ea-a282-386f56d579e6_story.html
While I agree that Trump firing the IG was probably not a good move. It is not unprecedented. As usual, Trump doing this is a scandal and shows a ‘blatant attack on accountability’. But when President Obama did the same thing, well…I’m sure we can both agree that his firing of a Bush appointee IG went without much notice. It probably not a coincident that the IG under Obama was investigating AmeriCorps…one of Obama’s pet projects, hence the firing.
No Gary…this does not smell of corruption, it is what presidents do. They replace appointees from other administrations. But of course when Trump does it, it’s a scandal! Hold the presses!
Once again Mr. Cook parrots trumpist lies:
No, trump’s action “does not smell of corruption”.
Trump’s action carries the overwhelming stench of a democracy suffering from a gangrenous infection:
“Trump Twists Record on Inspectors General
By Robert Farley
Posted on May 20, 2020
Defending his decision to fire a fourth inspector general this year, President Donald Trump has misleadingly compared his record to past presidents, claiming, “I think every president has gotten rid of probably more than I have.”
According to a recently released Congressional Research Service report, since 2000, Barack Obama was the only president to remove an inspector general, and he removed one. Trump has now removed four in less than two months…”
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/05/trump-twists-record-on-inspectors-general/
And Obama removed that single IG for good cause, as documented in this letter of explanation:
https://abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/Jake's%20Blog.pdf
From the WP article — these firings appear to be retaliatory for the work the IGs were conducting.
Doug, again, FIVE federal oversight inspectors removed from their jobs by the trump admin within 6 weeks time. That doesn’t sound unusual? Your comparisons do not neutralize what this prez is doing today.
As I said, I would have advised against firing these IG’s. But I can’t blame the president for doing so. president Trump has been repeatedly attacked and sabotaged from the inside of federal agencies. I know you wish to ignore the recent revelations about the Russian collusion fantasy and the sneaky and corrupt manner that Flynn got railroaded. I know you wish to ignore the wiretapping of Trump’s team…and the lies told to the FISA court to expand an investigation that had no meat. That is why the president is a bit paranoid and wishes to have friendlier people under him. It’s called draining the swamp, which is why he got elected.
Trump said he fired the State Department IG because Pompeo asked him to. When an IG is removed, the president must provide Congress a reason for the firing within 30 days. Thus far, the only reason provided is that he lost faith in the IG and will have to provide a more detailed explanation to Congress. It has been reported that (1) Pompeo illegally used a taxpayer-funded assistant to walk his dog, pick up his laundry, and make dinner reservations; (2) again at taxpayer expense, held lavish dinner parties on government property for big donors and the likes of Dale Earnhardt, Jr.; and (3) had State Department staff fabricate a reason for the emergency sale of arms to Saudi Arabia against the wishes of Congress after the decision was made to declare an emergency. Although the president has the authority to remove an IG, this firing smacks of corruption.
Doug Cook,
Trying to decide whether or not to provide Flynn with the evidence against him prior to his testimony to discourage him from (inevitably) lying is hardly “railroading” him, and we don’t know where the Mueller investigation would have led, since it wasn’t completed (although Trump’s toadying Attorney General deliberately misrepresented its findings to imply that Trump was in the clear). Among the things that has been proven to date is that Trump obstructed justice in multiple instances.
Of course the real “swamp” is the Trump administration, which is comprised of billionaires with obvious conflicts of interest and family members who are raking in fortunes through policies they were behind implementing. The rest are totally unqualified God-in-government fanatics who admittedly want to replace our Constitution with brutal Old Testament law (and a government they control). Unfortunately there are still millions of those primitive Dominionist traitors whose churches are now well-oiled political machines, and Trump will sacrifice the country to literally anyone who can deliver him enough votes.
In addition, Trump’s appointees are so without integrity that they don’t even blink at committing abuses like helping him set up entire shadow governments to blackmail a foreign president into manufacturing non-existent dirt against a political rival.
Frankly I can’t imagine why Trump hasn’t slunk back under his rock by now, instead of running for a second term. While he may still have the support of the dregs of society (while male supremacists, religious throw-backs who want to rule the world, corporate exploiters, etc.), hardly a day goes by when Trump doesn’t commit another demented outrage or attempt to jeopardize the country in some new way. The fact that he’s a deranged sociopathic 5-year-old is constantly on display. You’d think he would have had enough of being publicly exposed for the absolute POS he is.
In answer to so-called “recent revelations” nonsense; history will eventually provide a true account, not the trump administration.
Expecting the truth from the deceptive William Barr & Clorox the Maskless Clown is delusional. Those two are obviously not credible.
As triple digits start hitting next week and monsoons soon to pick up and wildfire season has started and the economy reopening amid a COVI epidemic that shows no signs of going away I am glad we don’t have to worry about roving blackouts because of high winds. In fact APS can not shut electricity off because of unpaid bills.
Just pointing out that there is other news that doesn’t include Trump.
The New York Times is reporting that Tara Reade apparently fabricated her credentials to qualify as an expert witness in numerous trials in Monterey County involving domestic violence, rape, and murder. She testified under oath in these trials that she had a degree from Antioch University that would qualify her as an expert witness, but she has no such degree, according to the university. Defense attorneys for trials in which she was an expert witness are now likely to ask for new trials based on her perjury and the Monterey County DA’s office has said it will notify all defense attorneys for trials she testified at about her false testimony. Her credibility is completely shot and she may be charged with perjury. Just think of the expense of having to retry these cases not to mention the damage to the defendants.
I believe Joe.
CNN and The Hill have also published stories in the last two days about Reade’s apparent perjury and the fallout in Monterey County.
While I agree with you that Reade’s case seems shaky at best…I tend to not readily believe claims that appear decades after the alleged incident, I still can’t seem to fathom why this allegation is any different than Dr Ford’s. I’m sure you, Kathryn, jumped on the believe all women bandwagon when it was Dr Ford’s turn in the hot seat. I’m quite certain you were convinced that Justice Kavanaugh was guilty of a sexual assault.
You seem very intent on proving Biden’s innocence. It’s a shame that you didn’t feel the same with Justice Kavanaugh’s right to be innocent until proven guilty. Can you explain the difference? Is it as simple as partisan politics?
I tried to be consistent in looking at these allegations. I didn’t rush to judgement in either case. I had issues with Dr Ford’s allegations and testimony as I did with Ms Reade’s. All I ask is to treat every allegation fairly, keep partisanship out of it.
Doug Cook,
I’ve never seen anyone who can ignore facts as consistently as you do (or perhaps that’s just a common trait among Trump supporters).
Some of those “differences” are clearly stated in Kathryn’s posts above.
In addition:
Fifty witness were available to testify as to Kavanaugh’s history of sexual violence and harassment against women, through his college years and beyond. However, Trump and his Regime refused to allow those witnesses to be heard in their rush to subvert justice.
Dr. Ford is a respected Stanford researcher and educator whose life is an open book. Tara Reade concealed years of her past, has a widespread reputation as a con artist, and is a sycophant of everything involving Putin and Russia.
No one in Biden’s office at the time (including the person Reade supposedly filed a complaint with) heard even an inkling of a sexual assault, and as recently as last year Reade herself claimed that Biden only rubbed her arm.
Even the brother she supposedly told couldn’t seem to remember anything other than that Reade claimed Biden touched her neck. However, a text arrived after the interview in which he (or whoever sent the text) claimed to have suddenly remembered being told she was sexually assaulted.
Reade claims her mother (now conveniently deceased) called the Larry King Show to complain about the assault. That’s a lie. The tape only makes vague references to “problems” the unnamed caller’s unnamed “daughter” was having with an unnamed senator. Reade has admitted that she didn’t agree with many of Biden’s policies.
While it’s not unusual for victims of violent sexual assaults to avoid mentioning those crimes (look what happened to Dr. Ford), there are obviously vast differences between Dr. Ford’s accusation and Tara Reade’s. Of course I expect you’ll just go on ignoring those facts – as you ignore every other inconvenient truth.
Nonsense, Patrecia…the only difference is that Kavenaugh is a Republican and Biden is a Democrat. Simple as that…and there were not 50 witnesses ready to testify. Show me…
Anyone who followed the hearings knows that Trump and his Republican cohorts limited the scope and time frame of the “investigation” to such an extreme degree that only a handful of basically Kavanaugh-friendly witnesses were interviewed, and it was all over in less than a week. Dozens of witnesses who didn’t promote their agenda were ignored.
And someone would need to be as delusional as Trump to actually believe these two cases are the same. The lone accusation of sexual assault against Biden is coming from a woman whose story keeps changing, who is hiding years of her life, is an admitted Putin/Russia devotee, claimed at the time that she left Biden’s staff just because she didn’t agree with his politics, and who has a reputation as a con artist. As I’ve said before, she’s no Dr. Ford.
https://www.politicususa.com/2019/09/16/the-fbi-helped-republicans-hide-and-lie-about-kavanaughs-sexual-assaults.html
Patrecia, if it was so important, Sen Feinstein wouldn’t have kept the allegation to herself until the 11th hour. Why did Feinstein wait nearly three months to hand the document over to the federal authorities? Politics, that’s why. You made the claim there were 50 people ready to testify against the judge. I have never read that, please enlighten me where you got that from. There was zero corroboration of any allegation against the judge, even from Dr Ford’s friends. Dr. Ford named three people who, she said, were at the party where she claims Kavanaugh assaulted her. Each of them, including Ford’s best friend, denied even being there. Hundreds of people, including dozens and dozens of women, who have known him well for decades all say that the suggestion of such sexual misconduct is foreign to what is, in fact, known about this man.
Biden and Kavenaugh are innocent until proven guilty. If you accuse someone of something, especially if it could harm them, you have to back it up. Tara Reades’s accusations don’t stand up to scrutiny…and neither does Dr Ford’s. So, I’ll be waiting for your source that shows there were 50 people waiting to testify against the judge. I’m sheltering in place, so I’ll be here all week.
Doug Cook,
You might actually read the article I posted above. Then you could try reading the Los Angeles Times article it linked. There were plenty of witnesses to Kavanaugh’s pattern of behavior toward women.
And that he hasn’t attacked female members of his staff or members of his social set is completely meaningless.
No doubt a decision was made not to drag Dr. Ford into the spotlight unless it became absolutely necessary. And where is Tara Reade’s “corroboration”? All we know is that she openly lied and changed her story, time and again.
Whether the people Dr. Ford named really didn’t remember (entirely possible, since they weren’t the victims of a brutal attempted rape and attempted suffocation), or whether they just didn’t want their lives turned upside down is anybody’s guess. However, it’s highly unlikely that someone of Dr. Ford’s professional stature is going to lie.
On the other hand Kavanaugh’s hysterical raging tantrum at the hearings was extremely suspect. He’s either got something to hide, or (at best) he’s not suited to becoming a Supreme Court Justice.
Doug, like Patrecia, I believed Dr. Ford’s allegations. Unlike with Tara Reade, Dr. Ford’s story did not change over time, as shown by her therapist’s notes from years ago. Furthermore, her credibility was strengthened by her admitting that there were some details that she did not remember because of the passage of time.
I will admit that I have partisan biases. I have never voted for a Republican because I disagree with them on nearly issue. I do resent your accusation that I jumped on the believe all women bandwagon. Based on my experience as a mental health professional and my personal history, I believe it is rare for women to lie about sexual assault and sexual harassment, but it does happen. I am a regular donor to the California Innocence Project because people—men and women alike—are sometimes convicted based on false testimony. Btw, I find it ironic that you of all people would accuse anyone of partisanship.
Kathryn…I also admit that I have partisan biases, who doesn’t, but maybe not as partisan as you as I have voted for a number of Democrats in my life. As a political science major and someone who follows politics closely, my interest in these cases has to do with media reporting and the double standard with the two cases.
I don’t necessarily believe Ms Reade’s story, as I didn’t readily believe Dr Ford’s story. I’m sure Dr Ford believes something happened, but you have to have some proof or at least have a believable story before you try and ruin a man’s life. Kavanaugh has an impeccable reputation both in his professional and his private life. The judge has worked with and mentored dozens of women, always acting professional according to them. A life that few of us can match.
It is also interesting to me that since Kavanaugh has been on the Supreme Court, he has been relatively moderate, siding with the minority opinions often. Not the boogeyman he was made out to be. He even has an all woman law clerk staff. I didn’t mean to throw out the blanket statement that you always believe women, I apologize for that..but I can’t help but think that you jumped on the Kavanaugh is guilty bandwagon at the time, or am I wrong?
“Kavanaugh has an impeccable reputation both in his professional and his private life.”
A black-out drinker who lied about that under oath while testifying during his Senate confirmation hearings, according to Yale classmates? A guy who’s been accused of multiple illegal acts and policy violations during this public career, including during his tenure as one of Ken Starr’s hunting dogs during investigations into Bill Clinton’s sex life? That Kavanaugh?
im·pec·ca·ble
adjective
(of behavior, performance, or appearance) in accordance with the highest standards of propriety; faultless.
Kavanaugh may not have been the first Supreme Court nominee who perjured his way onto the bench.
But I think he probably was the first nominee, who was KNOWN by the confirming Senators to be repeatedly lying under oath, and placed on the Supreme Court anyway. The only solution to the Kavanaugh disaster is to rid ourselves of the corrupt senators who confirmed him.
However, this is only one example of how trump has corrupted and debased every institution of our Nation, and of why America now is regarded by the entire world as a failing, if not failed, State.
Now trump agitates to institute policies that will quite literally kill hundreds of thousands more Americans, and make the current depression even more severe and longer in duration.
All the safeguards our founding Fathers placed in the Constitution to protect our Republic from the threat trump poses are obstructed by trumpist sycophants, quislings assisted by our foreign adversaries.
Isn’t this the clear and present danger that should most concern all of us today?
I always enjoy a good “Quisling.”
Of the HALF (not all) of Kavanaugh’s law clerks who have been women, many were the daughters of prominent judges, politicians, and other powerful figures. And Dr. Ford has an even more “impeccable reputation” – especially when you consider the dozens of people who witnessed Kavanaugh brutalize and sexually harass women (and who were deliberately excluded from the so-called “investigation”).
We also tend to overlook the main reason (in addition to his anti-abortion stance) that Trump appointed Kavanaugh in the first place, which is his claim that presidents can’t be charged with or prosecuted for any crime while they remain in office. Maybe that’s why Trump is so desperate for a second term.
There are seldom any witnesses to rape or attempted rape. However, there apparently was in this case, although I suspect that person was either fearful of being considered an accessory, or just didn’t want his life to become a circus. It’s unfortunately often just a he said/she said scenario, and Kavanaugh’s conduct was so unprofessional and outrageous during the hearings that 2,400 judges signed a letter asking that he NOT be confirmed to the Supreme Court.
I also wouldn’t want to “match” Kavanaugh’s life. He’s a fanatical God-in-government right-wing extremist who was rated the most conservative judge on the federal courts by an organization of legal experts before attaining his seat on the Supreme Court, and is now considered the second most conservative Justice, next to Clarence Thomas (YUK).
Finally, he may have sided with liberal judges on a couple of minor cases, but it remains to be seen where he’ll go with the more major upcoming cases.
A moment of silence: Two new positive Shasta County COVID-19 cases.
https://anewscafe.com/2020/05/22/redding/shasta-county-covid-19-situation-update-for-5-22-2020/
Carry on.
Okay, let’s say the modules are wrong and it will only be half…. As we are opening up California come hell or high water, a new report from the Imperial College reports in California and Florida, the death rate could spike to roughly 1,000 a day by July without efforts to mitigate the spread, according to the report. A new government draft report says Covid-19 deaths in the United States will rise to more than 3,000 a day by June 1, with new confirmed cases surging to about 200,000 daily…
By God if you don’t open it up we will, don’t take my constitutional rights from me, give me life liberty and my freedom… I am Covid 19, hear my freedom ring! Don’t tread on me, I’m COVID 19 and I won’t be shackled and held hostage by your socialist governor! I’m COVID 19, I will be set free!
we need hair cuts and thank God it was “1 from China… 10, maybe 12, soon it will be 0.”
The ‘government report’ you speak of was prepared by Johns Hopkins University. When it garnered a lot of press, they came out with this statement,
“…”The information released in the leaked Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) slide deck published by The New York Times included preliminary analyses developed by researchers at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. These preliminary analyses were provided to FEMA to aid in scenario planning — not to be used as forecasts — and the version published is not a final version. These preliminary results are not forecasts, and it is not accurate to present them as forecasts.”
In other words, Johns Hopkins developed a worst case scenario outcome to assist FEMA in planning for the worst. You, of course present it as a forecast of what is to come. Why? because you are obsessed with making the president look as bad as possible.
Your other ‘study’ is just as inaccurate. It simply used cell phone tracking data, and then shows potentially ominous scenarios if people move around as they did previously and do so without taking precautions. Again, a worst case scenario that will never happen. We aren’t going back to way it was before the virus anytime soon.
You will always ignore the good news coming out, and relish in the worst case scenarios for the only goal to trash the administration. So sad…
Yep, so sad… Doug, it’s really sad you call this good news. Throw away the 59 page pandemic report and close down the pandemic team, lie, deny, spin, stall, all because you and tRump want tRump to look good. But you can’t and he has failed: In fact, if we had just put social distancing in place a week earlier could have saved 36,000 American lives. How many could we have saved if it was 2 weeks earlier, or now, two week later?
“We’re going to lose anywhere from 75, 80 to 100,000 people…” Yeah, right…should be at least 100,000 in the next few days.
On May 15th, the administration privately predicted a sharp increase in deaths,using a public model that has been frequently cited by the White House. The model revised its own estimates, doubling its projected death toll. Why? No, it wasn’t because of tRump, the slow down we have had is due to social distancing and lockdown. Now all that’s going away.
It’s “going to go away without a vaccine … and we’re not going to see it again, hopefully, after a period of time. Sure…
tRump said in mid March that we have a problem that, a month ago, nobody thought about.” Lie, members of Trump’s administration were issuing warnings in January that the United States needed to act to “prevent an American epidemic.” We and American’s in China working in Wuhan and they say the thing unfold around Christmas 2019.
Former Vice President Joe Biden also wrote in January as the coronavirus spread across the globe that the “possibility of a pandemic is a challenge Donald Trump is unqualified to handle as president.”
In February trump reported that the number of cases of COVID-19 disease was “going very substantially down, not up” in the United States, and that, “It’s going to disappear. One day — its like a miracle — it will disappear.”
tRump stated concerns over the coronavirus were a “hoax” perpetrated by the Democrats.
“It could have been stopped right where it came from: China!” but of course he wants Xi to like him so he said, “China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency,” Trump tweeted at the time. “It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!” Sure, okay…
“I say we have a very active flu season, more active than most. It’s looking like it’s heading to 50,000 or more deaths. Deaths, not cases. Fifty thousand deaths. tRump call Covid 19 the flu… ACHEW
“Nobody could have ever seen something like this coming.” of course the National Security Council in 2016 came up with a pandemic playbook, which Trump had complet access to. That playbook described a pandemic situation just like Covid 19 and recommended steps the Trump administration should have taken as soon as there were signs of an “emerging disease threat anywhere in the world. The Trump administration did none of those things. Now, the virus is spreading, the U.S. economy is cratering.
“There is no risk when it’s already out there in a different form for a different purpose.” What? That like saying if we didn’t test there would be no Covid 19… Oh, he said that too.
“Because of all we’ve done, the risk to the American people remains very low,” Trump said. “When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero. That’s a pretty good job we’ve done.” Yep, zero that one out too.
“We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China, and we have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.” Sure thing…
“After a month or so, I think once this passes, we’re not going to have to be hopefully worried too much about the virus.”
“I’m the only leader of a country that closed our borders tightly against China,” And then a few day later, of course 40,00 people came to the US from China.
“Well, I don’t know too much about it, but I understand my name is there. I don’t know where they’re going, how they’re going, I do understand it’s not delaying anything, and I’m satisfied with that. I don’t imagine it’s a big deal, I’m sure people will be very happy to get a big, fat, beautiful check, and my name is on it.” Trump asked Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin if he could sign the checks himself.
“Anyone who wants a test can get a test.” Not even close.
A Trump administration projection and a public model predicts rising death tolls…
As President Trump presses for states to reopen their economies, his administration is privately projecting a steady rise in the number of coronavirus cases and deaths over the next several weeks. The daily death toll will reach about 3,000 on June 1, according to an internal document obtained by The New York Times, a 70 percent increase from the current number of about 1,750.
The projections, based on government modeling pulled together by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, forecast about 200,000 new cases each day by the end of the month, up from about 25,000 cases a day currently.
The numbers underscore a sobering reality: The United States has been hunkered down for the past seven weeks to try slowing the spread of the virus, but reopening the economy will make matters worse.
“There remains a large number of counties whose burden continues to grow,” the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention warned.
EVERYONE wants the county to open up, but tRump and his tRumpublicans have hindered this from day one because they had no plan, do not want to provide what we need to open the economy up safely, they decided to roll the dice and ended up crashing the economy and letting people get sick, and or die… So, now, today, we all have to roll the dice…
tRump’s complet incompetence, his pathological lying, his shell game hiding, his cover-up, his bait and switch and his uneducated mind, is twisting yours, like many here in Redding and other Red Parts of the country. But for the rest of us, more than two-thirds of respondents said in a Pew Research Center poll 2 weeks ago that they were more concerned that state governments would reopen their economies too quickly than that they might take too long — roughly on par with past responses to the same question. Today, the odds are more 50 / 50…. with lots of concern. If you think what tRump and most of his administration has done is “good news,” you are truly tRump Drunk. Pathetically sad…
“If you have a problem figuring out whether you’re for me or Trump, then you ain’t black,” – Joe Biden
Oh boy…
Doug Cook,
Why be so selective? Would you also like to quote all of Trump’s open incitements to violence? His racist blanket labeling of Hispanics as murderers, rapists, and “snakes”? Or Muslims as terrorists? Or (by disgusting contrast) Nazis and other violent white supremacist groups as “very good people”?
How about his endless blatant lies and delusional statements? His frequent ridicule of women’s appearances? Of disabled people? His gloating admission that he sexually assaulted countless women?
No one can hold a candle to Trump when it comes to racism, sexism, xenophobia, and other verbal filth.
In fact, tRump launched his political career on calling president Obama a Black Museum from Africa, said he had prof… Oh Boy Indeed.
Trump thinks Obama is a black museum? and Trump has a professor? Who would have guessed.
Doug Cook,
Where’s your response to my post above? While ridiculing Biden’s comparatively harmless remark, why are you giving Trump (who’s said countless things that are a thousand times worse) a pass?
Hey Doug, I think you know exactly what I was trying to say., And ou know very well what I mean. Sometimes voice over IP doesn’t work. Racist, sexist and authoritarian wannabe, your president Clorox, launched his political rear on calling President Barack Obama a black Muslim from Africa. The racist pig is at it still today, as long as he has tRumpublican supporters such as yourself. Joe Biden Biden realized he made a mistake and apologized, something President Clorox will never do. But there’s one thing for sure there Doug, he won’t call neo-Nazis very good people like Clorox does.
Hey christian, President Trump never mentioned Clorox, why are you using that derogatory name? It was the Trump haters that made up the Clorox reference. Why did they do that? The president never said Neo-Nazis were very good people, my guess you never read the actual transcript, did you? I’m sure you are also unaware that Patti Solis Doyle, who was Hillary’s campaign manager in 2008, admitted in a CNN interview that the Hillary campaign first spread the birther issue.
Because Patrecia, Your over the top vitriol just wears me out. I can’t always respond to your hyperbole.
Doug Cook,
FACTS can’t be dismissed just by falsely labeling them “hyperbole” or “over the top”.
And Trump most certainly has called Nazis and other white supremacist groups “very fine people”, on more than one occassion. Followng the Charlottesville rally (during which one person was killed and 19 others injured – some seriously – in an attack by a Neo-Nazi Trump supporter, and others were chased down and beaten within an inch of their lives) Trump claimed those violent criminals included “very fine people”, and attempted to assign equal blame to their non-violent victims. Most recently Trump referred to the heavily armed thugs who are laying seige to state capitals (and whose members have called for the assasination of Michigan’s governor) “very fine people”, and insisted that governors should bend to their will. He has also repeatedly defended white supremacist groups, while throwing anyone protesting them under the bus. He’s not the hero of these violent hate groups for nothing.
In addition, your claim that Trump’s signature birther nonsense orginated with Hillary Clinton and her campaign is another lie:
https://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/was-hillary-clinton-the-original-birther/
Well that’s it. Joe’s toast.
This is just going to KILL him with the black vote!
When you pander to the black community and expect their vote, that is when you get in trouble. For decades the Democrat strategy has been to pander before elections and then do nothing for the black community. This is by design to keep black voters in an indefinite state of perceived oppression, so Democrats can continue to have rallying cries each election cycle. Obama did very little for the black community.
It is Biden’s assumption that black voters are unsophisticated and can be kept in an underclass mentality forever. To assume all black people should think the same and not as individuals is racism at its worst.
The very small percentage of Black people who have turned on their race (and against their own interests) by voting Republican are not a consideration, since they will undoubtedly continue to align with their oppressors no matter what Biden says.
The gap between wages for Blacks and Whites has widened under Trump, which is not surprising given the rabid racism he encourages. In addition, most Black people recognize Trump’s claims that he is somehow responsible for low Black unemployment rates (a trend that was well-underway during Obama’s terms, and has actually slowed under Trump) as a false narrative.
“…Black people who have turned on their race”
Thanks for proving my point. Assuming that black people must comply with one way of thinking. The rest are Uncle Toms.
At an extremely lazy first glance, it’s arguable that black voters might want to look elsewhere for answers, given that many of the black community’s problems persist after decades of social engineering by Democrats.
But to deny progress under that social engineering is to deny reality. In 1940, 60 percent of working black women were domestic servants—today that’s down to 2 percent, while 60 percent hold white-collar jobs. In 1958, 44 percent of whites said they would move if a black family became their next door neighbor; today the figure is 1 percent (probably including the White House and Trump Tower). In 1964, the year the Civil Rights Act was passed, only 18 percent of whites claimed to have a friend who was black; today 86 percent say they do, while 87 percent of blacks say they have white friends.
The biggest ravager of progress in the black community has been the “War on Drugs,” with its extremely disproportionate prison sentences for minorities. A long-term criminalization campaign that has ruined lives and derailed families. The War on Drugs may have been bipartisan in its inception, but it’s largely Republicans who won’t give it up.
So what does the GOP offer up as an alternative to the Democrats, who we are to believe have done little to help black Americans? How about a president whose family fortune was made in real estate—refusing to rent or sell housing to African-Americans, and prosecuted for that practice? How about a President who based his political ascension on de-legitimizing the nation’s first African-American POTUS? A President who relies heavily on pandering to the White Nationalists in his base, and makes no effort to hide the fact that he sympathizes with their worldview?
Yeah man, that crazy old coot Joe Biden—a guy who always made it obvious that he dearly loved his African-American boss—what was that dude thinking? And when are African Americans gonna see through his charade?
Making fun of typos as a form of ridicule? Yikes. Using that low of a bar would mean pretty much everyone who comments here (including myself ) would be subject to the same ridicule.
Tell me about it. You should have seen the way people here made fun of me when I made a comment about a “Facebook mime” instead of a “Facebook meme.” That was probably two years ago, and it still stings.
<<>>
I need a hug.
Hal — I’m sure people make fun of my plentiful typos, too, but I’ve never noticed. I’m too focused on shredding my clothing and pulling my hair out over the lack of an editing tool that’d afford me the ability to minimize my humiliation.
I’m so, so, so, sorry. 🙁 Really. I wish our system allowed everyone to edit their comments.
There’s a dark downside to comment editing—gaslighting. Someone posts something asinine (not typos, but indefensible BS), it gets lit up and pissed out, the author goes back to the original comment and edits it, and posts a follow-up comment: “What are you talking about? I didn’t say that.”
At least one ANC regular would do that habitually if it was an option. It’s exactly why Facebook has “comment history.”
Having edited your writing, I know that you are no slouch.
Ah…I just couldn’t help myself. It was like Michael Scott from the Office trying to resist saying, “That’s what she said”. Christian’s comments are so over the top that the urge was just too much…I know, it was juvenile to poke fun.
Hal, I wouldn’t have ridiculed you but ya gotta admit “Facebook Mime” is pretty funny. Trust me when I tell you I’ve been guilty of much worse gaffes than that. If it makes you feel any better when I was around 12, I was in my folks backyard sunbathing when I heard on the radio it was a “burn day” so I gathered my towel and radio up and headed indoors. I know this sounds like the epitome of a dumb blonde joke but I promise I’m not making it up. Later on that day the subject came up at dinner and my step-dad laughed so hard I thought he’d fall off his chair. Years later I told that self-damning story to a co-worker. The next day he told me he’d shared it with his wife (whom I’d not yet met) who responded by simply staring at him for a few moments and then simply saying “I’m sorry”. If the day ever comes when I can’t laugh at myself, well, that’ll be a sad day for me indeed. Facebook mime away, it’s all good.
I have loved to read since I was a small child. When I was six or so, I announced at the dinner table that I wanted to be a bookkeeper when I grew up. My parents roared.
Kathryn, makes perfect sense to me, love it.
Candace, I do have a rather large library of books I keep. So did my parents for that matter—who were they to laugh—and I suspect you do too.
Kathryn, my mother was an avid reader and instilled her love of reading early on in my brother and myself which in turn has been instilled in our children and so on and so forth. When I was a kid we didn’t have a lot of money so books and vinyl records were checked out from our local library (as well as paintings rented from the Redding Art Museum). There are quite a few books still at my parents house but other than my accumulated stacks of Mystery novels (hardbacks in perfect condition needing to be donated/shared) I’m afraid I don’t have the room nor inclination to hang on to many books other than children’s books I’ve collected through the years and hung unto. I’m a big fan of Patricia Polacco, Tove Jansson (Moomintrolls), Crockett Johnson (Harold and His Purple Crayon) among many others. I do keep some others by authors Patrick Rothfuss and Catherynne Valente that I might re-read at some point (probably not, lol. Anyway, I’m sure you, like everyone else, have your favorites. Sorry for the “ramblings” it’s just nice to talk about something neutral once in a while.
Katheryn, also, I think that whether or not you and I agree or disagree on any given subject we may have started off on the wrong foot with one another. I’m not apologizing for my opinion but I do apologize if I came across as rude or mean spirited ; I can dig my heels in and be fairly caustic at times; it’s not meant to be taken personally but of course we’re all human so it makes sense that it’s sometimes considered as such. I try hard not to insult people but simply put, “Sometimes I just screw up.”
Thanks, Candace. We also didn’t have much money to buy books But we lived close enough to the library to walk. I also like mystery books and legal thrillers. Have you read William Kent Krueger? I just finished the nineteenth book in his series. I studied under one of Obama’s poet laureates, Philip Levine, at Fresno State and then studied modern American and British poetry at Berkeley so I also read quite a bit of poetry. I think you and I would probably like each other.
Well, Doug… I know how you feel. Most of us, and in the USA, are very tired of President Clorox’s “over the top vitriol,” lies, con games and lawlessness. However, letting you and your President miss represent reality is not expectable. Point is, there are a few folks in the center out there that are on the fence about President Clorox and when you try to spin a false narrative many on the Blue side feel you need to be checked, like blaming HRC for the Birther Movement that launched President Clorox’s political career.
In fact, birtherism, as it’s been called, began with innuendo by an Illinois political candidate Andy Martin, who painted Obama as a closet Muslim in 2004. That spiraled into a concerted effort by conspiracy theorists to raise doubts about Obama’s birthplace and religion — and essentially paint him as un-American. Check the numerous sources for yourself. https://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/was-hillary-clinton-the-original-birther/
Although I will agree that President Clorox made some hay – with folks like you – and spent lots of money spinning the lie, “He said he was born in Kenya and raised in Indonesia… An ‘extremely credible source’ has called my office and told me that @BarackObama’s birth certificate is a fraud… How amazing, the State Health Director who verified copies of Obama’s ‘birth certificate’ died in plane crash today. All others lived… I have my own theory on Obama. Someday I will write a book, I will do another book, and it will do very successfully. All others lived, on and on. Right, I’ll keep a look out for that book.
But we are used to President Clorox telling lies and pimping conspiracies, he has done so with Pizzagate, windmills, China, HRC’s “health crisis” disinfectants and other Q nonsense – Doug I do hope you not a QAnon member – and and so much other junk it really would take a book, if not a full library, to list all his lies.
Doug, if you have the money it’s a “free” county right now we can still vote unless President Clorox’s tries to do otherwise… “I’m not sure I can commit one way or the other, but right now that’s the plan,” Jared Kushner on suspending elections. Of course Clorox knows he can’t get away with suspending the elections but will take all the help from you, Putin, OAnon and Britbart that he can get, as well as try and make voting by mail illegal and close as many polls in districts with lots of diversity. In fact, let take a look at that before we go…
Right from your mainline news source, “A recent Fox News poll shows just 14% of African Americans who are registered to vote have a favorable opinion of Trump, compared with 84% who view him unfavorably…” I would think the same is true with any diversity in their genetic make up.
So as your President tee’s off another round of golf – and an how many tweets did Clorox make about President Obama playing golf?…- let us be thankful that Trump’s order to paint border wall black could drive up cost $600 million or more… How much PPE could that buy for medical professions on the front lines? But, I guess painting the wall back with hide the deep state black helicopters as they cross over the border with ISIS members paid for by George Soros to overthrow Clorox…. Oh my goodness
Kathryn, I believe I’ve read one or two of William Kent Krueger’s books but tbh I don’t remember. In fact they may be here at the house. I didn’t go on to college like my parents and kids but instead followed a bit of a bend in the road. I know next to nothing about poetry and tend to not read much of it but your studies sound really interesting. I spent many long weekends in Berkeley when I was growing up as one of my mother’s closest friends lived there. Nice talking with you; I suppose we should get back to arguing now, lol. Kidding…
How the incompetence in planning and execution of trump’s half-baked announcement to ban European travel actually helped cause the spread of COVID-19 to explode throughout the USA:
“One final viral infusion: Trump’s move to block travel from Europe triggered chaos and a surge of passengers from the outbreak’s center
…Epidemiologists contend the U.S. outbreak was driven overwhelmingly by viral strains from Europe rather than China. More than 1.8 million travelers entered the United States from Europe in February alone as that continent became the center of the pandemic. Infections reached critical mass in New York and other cities well before the White House took action, according to studies mapping the virus’s spread. The crush of travelers triggered by Trump’s announcement only added to that viral load.
…The travel mayhem was triggered by many of the same problems that plagued the U.S. response to the pandemic from the outset: Early warnings were missed or ignored. Coordination was chaotic or nonexistent. Key agencies fumbled their assignments. Trump’s errant statements undermined his administration’s plans and endangered the public…”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/one-final-viral-infusion-trumps-move-to-block-travel-from-europe-triggered-chaos-and-a-surge-of-passengers-from-the-outbreaks-center/2020/05/23/64836a00-962b-11ea-82b4-c8db161ff6e5_story.html?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most
One day a week, you should strive to be a worse person than you were the day before. Hey, everybody needs a break.
Hal, LOL
You want us to emulate Trump?
This is from a Facebook friend, a young woman who is one of the most recent to contract COVID-19 in Shasta County.
“They say day ten of Covid-19 is supposed to be the worst, I’m on day seven and i currently feel like my organs are boiling inside me, and my spine and ribs feel like they’ve been stomped on. I cant imagine how this is gonna get worse.”
Jesus. That’s grim.
One of the really insidious aspects of this disease is that so many people have mild symptoms, giving comfort to those who insist it’s just another flu. But people who get hammered by it *really* get hammered (especially those who suffer a “cytokine storm” that damages organ tissue), and there’s evidence that in many of those cases, the damage is permanent.
Hal, that poor woman, my heart goes out to her, I hope she experiences some relief sooner than later. This virus ain’t no joke.
The massive scale of the unnecessary slaughter America has suffered over the last few months is difficult to put into perspective. Casualties inflicted by America’s enemies in war over comparable time frames are dwarfed by those caused by our present government’s incompetence in administering America’s defense:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_casualties_of_war
While the pandemic death count to date understates reality, and no total number can be precise, there is no doubt more Americans have died from COVID-19 in the last few months, than America suffered in military casualties in all the wars and and other military engagements entered into since World War Two ended in 1945.
More dead this spring from COVID-19 than in all those years of so many wars in the last 75 years: Korea, Viet Nam, the Oil Wars from 1990 to present, and all the other miscellaneous military operations over this time period.
Also more Americans dead this spring from COVID-19 than America’s armed forces suffered in total during World War One, both from combat, and the larger number due to other causes, principally the “Spanish” Flue pandemic.
Since the slaughter slowed only slightly during our short and disorganized campaign against COVID-19, and since that campaign has now ended with trump offering America’s unconditional surrender, we should expect the USA casualty lists from World War Two and the Civil War will likely soon be surpassed by the re-accelerating pandemic death toll.
We hit 100,000 US dead today. The New York Times describes what it’s like to live with so many dead.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/27/opinion/coronavirus-morgue-trucks-nyc.html
As I travel around Redding and see the maskless folks carefree ways I wonder how they missed
the news and don’t appear to care that covid-19 is here. We have been lucky but having luck is
not a strategy to get through this.
Update on the extent of the Covid fatalities under-count:
Most accurate estimate yet indicates total COVID-19 pandemic deaths in the USA are approximately 140,000 to date, well above the ~103,000 as widely reported:
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
That’s about the total number of combat deaths suffered by USA forces in the Civil war.
America still has the opportunity in this pandemic to avoid the record ~755,000 total deaths, including CSA and (very high) noncombat, from America’s deadliest war.
IF we can manage to do something different than what we are doing today, that is.
“Pandemic’s overall death
toll in U.S. likely surpassed
100,000 weeks ago
…Between March 1 and May 9, the nation recorded an estimated 101,600 excess deaths, or deaths beyond the number that would normally be expected for that time of year, according to an analysis conducted for The Washington Post by a research team led by the Yale School of Public Health. That figure reflects about 26,000 more fatalities than were attributed to covid-19 on death certificates during that period, according to federal data.
Those 26,000 fatalities were not necessarily caused directly by the virus. They could also include people who died as a result of the epidemic but not from the disease itself, such as those who were afraid to seek medical help for unrelated illnesses. Increases or decreases in other categories of deaths, such as motor vehicle accidents, also affect the count.
Such “excess death” analyses are a standard tool used by epidemiologists to gauge the true toll of infectious-disease outbreaks and other widespread disasters…”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/investigations/coronavirus-excess-deaths-may/?itid=hp_no-name_hp-breaking-news%3Apage%2Fbreaking-news-bar&itid=lk_inline_manual_24
The IHME model shows significant revisions since the first of the month, with California’s projected three-month pandemic death toll more than tripling.
It now predicts 7,558 COVID-19 deaths projected by August 4, 2020 for California, and 5,129 COVID-19 deaths projected by August 4, 2020 for Sweden.
Congratulations seem due to Sweden, for learning from its initial mistakes.
I hope all Californians enjoy their next two months of “relaxation”…
“Ed Marek May 1, 2020 at 10:21 am
The model preferred by the trumpists predicts 2,104 COVID-19 deaths projected by August 4, 2020 for California, and 17,337 COVID-19 deaths projected by August 4, 2020 for Sweden.
Both numbers are probably significantly underestimating the actual number of deaths we should anticipate, but I would not be surprised if the ratio of total fatalities ended up looked similar, if current policies are maintained by both California and Sweden for the duration…”
https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/california
California’s projected 7,558 COVID-19 deaths from IHME model may be increasing soon…
“California is reopening too quickly, posing ‘very serious risk,’ Bay Area health officer warns
A key architect of the nation’s first coronavirus shelter-in-place order is criticizing California’s increasingly fast pace of lifting stay-at-home restrictions.
In particular, Dr. Sara Cody, health officer for Santa Clara County — home to Silicon Valley and Northern California’s most populous county — said she was concerned by the decision to allow gatherings of up to 100 people for religious, political and cultural reasons.
“This announcement to authorize county health officers to allow religious, cultural and political gatherings of 100 people poses a very serious risk of the spread of COVID-19,” Cody told the Santa Clara County Board of Supervisors on Tuesday.
Even if just one infected person showed up to such an event, the virus could easily be transmitted to many people and overwhelm local health officials’ ability to investigate all related cases, she warned.
Read the full story on LATimes.com. (paywall)
https://ktla.com/news/california/california-is-reopening-too-quickly-posing-very-serious-risk-bay-area-health-officer-warns/
Opinions Live with Eugene Robinson: Trump’s clearly in a bad mood
Sound political commentary, IMO.
https://live.washingtonpost.com/opinion-focus-with-eugene-robinson-20200512.html?itid=lk_inline_manual_26&itid=lk_inline_manual_28
Hurray!! I made an appointment for a haircut today
Ask your stylist for a “trump”, if you want people to take you more seriously…
Perhaps a little off topic but; I received a significant check due to this pandemic. My business is doing fine and I pay more in taxes than the average Shasta County worker makes in a year. This feels really weird and I’m not sure what I should do with it. Considering donating it to a non profit. Just not sure. Mostly it just feels odd.
Thanks for your candid honesty. Not many are brave enough to make the statement you just made. Yes, it does feel “odd” for those of us that aren’t really hurting. Why us? If it’s any consolation .. this fits neatly into one of those “not the first time, and not the last ..” categories. Just what happens when the gov administers stimulus and aid. Don’t sweat it too much. Look at it this way, not every kid reached or served in the school lunch program is actually going home to a house without food. So what? If that’s what it takes to feed the kids that need the help …
In your case. The money is going into the economy one way or another. If you feel better directing it into another channel or pocket … Well, you’re just a better man than most.
Jeff Haynes, You’re not alone. I know others feeling the same way as you. IMO if it feels odd and and you’re not liking the feeling, donate it somewhere it’s needed. There’s no shortage of worthy local causes. Many are doing just that. Heck, donate it to ANC!
With the US death toll reported at over 100K today, Trump has decided to wag the dog by declaring war on social media. I guess he got sick of Twitter fact-checking his disconnect with truth, along with his fervent embrace of wayward innuendo. I guess we’re expecting an Executuve Order regulating social media in Thursday’s news . Guy’s gotta be on crack to prioritize a war on social media a day after 100K citizens are pronounced DOA.
Do you think social media will fact check Joe Biden as well? Biden just claimed that the NAACP has endorsed him had “every time I’ve run” . That wasn’t true. The NAACP came out and said, “We want to clarify that the NAACP is a non-partisan organization and does not endorse candidates for political office at any level.”
My guess is that lie got very little coverage.
Yeah, Bill. Wuddabout Joe Biden? And wuddabout….
There’s a distinct difference between Uncle Joe mistakingly saying the NCAAP endorses him, and the POTUS flagrantly lying about secretaries of state mailing out ballots willy nilly, and what he’s going to do to stop that because (another lie) it’s related to widespread voter fraud. And then when Twitter links his tweet to a fact sheet, he says they’re violating his 1st Amendment rights (lie) and those of other conservatives (lie), and that he’s looking into shutting them down (a clear violation of the 1st Amendment).
Here’s what the NCAAP has to say about their conversation with Joe Biden on 5 May 2020. You be the judge of who they want to see get elected. The take-home message, in case you don’t want to click through: It’s not what you say. It’s what you’ve done and what you do. Proof in pudding.
https://www.naacp.org/latest/naacp-issues-statement-call-vice-president-joe-biden-lift-every-voice-biden-plan-black-america/
“Do you think the social media will fact check…”
The guy’s the POTUS, theoretically the most powerful man on the planet. Why is his attention divided over a feud with Twitter? If you don’t like the spots your laundry leaves behind, don’t like their starch, you change laundries. If you don’t like Sonic, you buy your burgers at Mickey D’s. Waste of time…on top of which, it’ll be toothless regulation, whatever he decides to do. Totally unenforceable waste of tax dollars, time, energy. Twitter oughta take the lead on this, and kick him out…
Bill — Orange Mussolini is a man of uncontrolled compulsions, and he’s addicted to Twitter. He wakes up every morning with a Twitter jones…a need to engage while he attends to his lengthy morning sit-down. The platform—brief thought-farts—suits his intellect and attention span. He’s not going anywhere.
He really can’t touch Twitter because they’re too small for him to use his antitrust hammer, so in frustration he’ll go after Facebook and Google as retaliation. That’s why Mark Zuckerberg came out yesterday saying “Twitter shouldn’t be doing that, and Facebook never will.” Zuck is afraid Facebook will be damaged by Trump’s petulant and unfocused need to hurt someone.
“He wakes up every morning with a Twitter jones…”
Never tweeted anything, ever, so maybe I’ve missed out on Twitter’s significance. The fact that POTUS is a fan provides no inducements to participate. Just can’t relate to the addiction, and – particularly for those who’ve chosen a lifestyle of high profile responsibility, power, and political clout – can’t understand the obsession. Seems like a waste of bandwidth to me.
I was on Twitter for about a few years, mostly to follow clever, witty people. When Trump got elected it immediately turned into a cesspool. All of my favorite “follows” went from funny to chronically outraged. On top of that, the mass stupidity of Trump’s commenting supporters was depressing AF.
Trump is doubly wrong about Twitter.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/05/28/trump-is-doubly-wrong-about-twitter/
“Gosh, it’s been awhile since I’ve really fucked up anything new. What’s out there? What can I totally monkey-wrench with my endless stupidity, me-first worldview, arrogance, belligerence, and world’s thinnest skin?
I know! While our economy struggles, I’ll go to war with some of the most prosperous and thriving of America’s high tech companies! I’ll say they’re violating the 1st Amendment, and I’ll issue an EO that actually does violate the 1st Amendment! And I’ll try to make social media companies legally liable for posts that every dipshit posts. I’ll show those disloyal FAKE NEWS sons of bitches!
Man. There are days when I still love being POTUS, even though they took my daily Chinese virus press conferences away, despite the fact that they had the HIGHEST RATINGS EVER!”
“There is NO WAY (ZERO!) that Mail-In Ballots will be anything less than substantially fraudulent and Mail boxes will be robbed, ballots will be forged & even illegally printed out & fraudulently signed. They’re rigging the election against me!
When somebody is the POTUS, the authority is total. And that’s the way it’s got to be. It’s total and I’m the prezident here!”
……hummina hummina hummina hummina hummina hummina hummina hummina hummina hummina hummina hummina…….
More like “What haven’t I fucked up lately? Hmm, looks like I’ve pretty much covered everything. Wait, I haven’t tested my I could shoot someone in broad daylight theory; nah, I’ll leave that up to someone else.”
We should vote in another television personality for President. Wile E. Coyote, SUPER GENIUS maybe +!+
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIPr23xyoZg
Jerry Springer, he would bring protesting groups on to the White House lawn where they could show the love.
Trump is once again “glorifying violence” – this time against Black protestors. Of course he never took this stance against neo-Nazis and other white supremacists who’ve committed mass violence. Instead he called them “very fine people”.
This brings to mind his incitement to violence (one of many), in which he claimed that the bikers, the police, and the military will be on his side if he should lose the election.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/twitter-flags-trump-tweet-about-george-floyd-protests-for-glorifying-violence/ar-BB14KkmP?ocid=spartan-dhp-feeds
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/05/29/trump-minneapolis-twitter-protest/
There is a big difference between protesters and rioters. My guess is those that smashed the windows of that Target store and stole big screen TV’s abd setting fires are not that concerned much about the death of George Floyd
When white people riot and destroy private property, they call it a “Tea Party.” A tax increase is a more righteous cause for outrage than cops murdering unarmed citizens, as every schoolboy knows.
But if you’re white and you’re still a little concerned that the authorities might frown on your protest, dress up as a minority. It’s an American tradition!
Steve T, “Rioting is counterproductive. Destroying your neighbor’s property doesn’t achieve anything.” says the guy wearing a Don’t Tread On Me shirt, member of a defunct organization named after the famous property destruction that helped to create the nation of the flag all over his truck, alongside the other flag – the one he insists on calling the “Rebel” flag because, he strenuously insists, it represents the pride of armed rebellion against a government that was dangerous and out of control. (words from my son today)
Even conservatives are getting sick of too much Clorox…. underwater, at 42 percent to 56 percent.https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/499733-trump-job-approval-falls-to-2-year-low-in-rasmussen-poll
As a long-time voter by mail, I didn’t understand why POTUS thought it was a bad idea. Here’s the explanation by his mouthpiece:
“Mail-in balloting as the main way to vote would be very concerning, because you see the polls, you see the economic indicators; people want this country to open up…People are very proud to show up and go to the polls. They really are. I mean, they wait in line for a Georgetown Cupcake for an hour, to get a cupcake.”
— Trump adviser Kellyanne Conway
I never made the connection between voting and cupcakes, but there you have it.
Can you imagine what it must be like to live with a brain that, upon hearing that explanation, would have you saying to yourself: “Yeaaaaaah! That makes perfect sense! That Kellyanne is one smart babe! I want a bowl Captain Crunch, with whole cream instead of milk.”
I’m imagining Trump processing it that way.
Mitt Romney, not on Trump’s Christmas list, said about 90% of voters in Utah vote by mail and it works seamlessly.
There’s such deep sadness in my heart today, I can hardly work. I in no manner condone violence and destruction. Sad thing is when this happens it’s usually the poor and lower class disadvantaged that ended up paying the price for the destruction. However that said, I understand how this happened..
The lawlessness and violence that is fanned by this sick president combined with the hopelessness of lynchings that take place almost daily lead to hopelessness. The sick president and his administration seem to be encouraging a race war. The sick idiot that is supposed to be the moral, ethical and legal figurehead of America, has left America rutterless as well as hopeless.
The Pathetic Idiot’s son-in-law and his children that seem to think they have authority to rule over America, have enabled sickness and death, crashed our economy, fanwd racist hate and continue to think that somehow they have royalty over the citizens of the United States.
The violence and destruction are symptoms of this sick president’s leadership and the leadership of his administration. The sooner this idiot is out of office the better.
What a sad day for not only America but for the world who once looked upon us as what is good, within all people regardless of race religion color or orientation. I hope somehow the pestilence of this administration is swept away in November, and we can renew the spirit, compassion, ingenuity and ethics that I know the United States has within our hearts, our backbones and our minds.
What an eloquent piece that says what most of us feel. The look on the faces of the two cops who were responsible for this man’s death was horrifying. Not that it matters, but I hope they are charged with murder. I just watched “The Help,” and we haven’t changed much since 1963. One thing that I don’t understand about this whole tragedy is why the protesters loot their town. How does that help?
Christian, it is quite the stretch here to blame the president for the death of Mr Floyd. My guess is there is practically nobody in this country that doesn’t believe Floyd was murdered. The officers in question were immediately fired and the cop with his foot on Floyd’s neck will undoubtedly be prosecuted for the murder.
Here is what we know and don’t know. We know that with the number of complaints about this officer, he was a bad cop. We don’t know if he is a racist, if evidence comes out that all of his complaints were from African Americans, that will bolster the racist claim. But as of right now,,,he is just a bad cop. For the sake of argument, let’s say he is a racist, that doesn’t indict the entire country as being a racist country, or that all white people are racist, or that President Trump caused this individual to be racist. I’m sure you didn’t blame Obama for Michael Brown’s death, did you?
“…The violence and destruction are symptoms of this sick president’s leadership”
Then explain the violence and destruction in Ferguson, or the LA riots in 1992. Police chiefs all across the nation are condemning the actions of this cop, no doubt he will be prosecuted and will pay for his actions. Not the sign of a racist country. Not every terrible thing is a racist thing.
It’s no fucking stretch whatsoever. Trump has fanned the flames of racial division since rising to political prominence by doing his best to de-legitimize our first African-American president. Today Twitter flagged a Trump tweet for promoting and inciting violence (he threatened to send in the military to start shooting the primarily black protesters/rioters).
The pathetic Obama analogy is ridiculous. Obama wasn’t a racist asshole who emboldened other racist assholes like this cop. Obama didn’t threaten to use the military against American citizens in American cities.
Trump’s “When the looting starts, the shooting starts.” TUBA sized racist dog whistle. There’s no defending that.
When I read that tweet, I didn’t rush immediately to racism charges.. I assumed what the president meant is like what happened in Ferguson, looting and rioting increases the likelihood of gunfire by the looters. This is info the police put out during the Ferguson riots, “…Police said early Tuesday they came under “heavy gunfire” and made 31 arrests during another night of violence. Officials said two people were shot, but not by officers, and more violent protesters from out of town are joining the crowds.”
So yes, I believe there is reason to defend the president’s statement.
Please for the love of all things good and just tell me you’re joking. You’re assertion that not ALL white people are racists and therefore we’re not a racist country is mind numbing and one of the most frequently used protestations by white people to point a finger towards anyone but themselves when conversations around racism arise. Then again, you’ve said before that you don’t believe we still have systemic racism in our country. If you don’t think what’s happening right now is borne out of that very thing, there’s nothing whatsoever I can say to change your mind; it’s sealed shut.
Candace, what exactly do you mean by a ‘racist country’? That there are racists that live here? Well, sure there are…there are racists in about every country. That doesn’t make us a racist country, it makes us a country with racists, a completely different animal.
You have absolutely no proof that this cop was a racist, you surmise because the victim was black and the cop was white, it was a racial death. It could very well be, but I am not willing to make that leap until we know more. Like I said, it could just be that he was a crappy cop. I’m sure there will be an investigation into the city’s hiring practices for police. They obviously didn’t do a very good job of screening this man. He also was just arrested and charged with murder, not a sign of a ‘racist country’
No Candace, I do not believe we have systemic racism in this country. You’re going to have to give me an example of any laws currently in place that supports racist policies. Not every interaction of a black man with police is borne out of racism. That is just a gross generalization.
Candace — Doug knows what Trump meant. But he must defend Der Pumpkinführer at every turn—it’s a compulsion fueled by tribalism. There are times when Doug’s defenses are at least arguable. There are other times—like right here—where Doug’s defenses are so blatantly absurd that he ends up looking like a foolish, sycophantic fanboy whose grasp on reality isn’t exactly a stranglehold.
It’s clearly an affliction, like Gollum’s madness over the Ring. “My precious!”
But unlike Gollum, Doug never shows signs of being conflicted. Throughout the Lord of the Rings, Gollum is torn between his lust for the Ring and his desire to be free of it. He both loves the Ring and hates it, and likewise, himself. Gollum is constantly miserable. Not Doug. He’s a True Believer all the way.
From NBC News…”A federal law enforcement officer in California was killed and another critically injured after being shot while providing security at the U.S. courthouse in Oakland near one of the increasingly violent protests unfolding around the country.”
“A 19-year-old man was killed on Friday night after shots were fired into a crowd of demonstrators in downtown Detroit who were protesting the death of George Floyd, The teenager was injured when shots were fired from an SUV about 11:30 p.m. and later died in hospital”
One person was killed in Detroit as hundreds of people gathered in the city’s downtown area as part of the nationwide protests. A Detroit Police Department spokesperson said, “A grey Dodge Durango pulled up and fired into the crowd, striking a 19-year-old man.” The shooting did not involve police”
This is exactly what the president was talking about.
Trump called for the Central Park Five to be executed, even when the actual rapist was identified through DNA and the five young black men were exonerated. Let me say it again. He advocated over and over for innocent blacks to be executed. He was sued by the federal government for refusing to rent to African Americans. And you’re trying to convince us that he is not racist or that his racist views are not appreciated by other racists, including racist cops?
He is not a very good racist then, because he has done more for the black community than his predecessor did. He has given a lot of support for historically black colleges and school vouchers. His administration worked hard on developing Opportunity Zones in black neighborhoods that are helping to create jobs. The president has sent resources and help to Chicago to stem the murder rate in that city, a murder rate that disproportionately affects black men.
What have the Democrats done for the black community? Anything but pander to them and expect their vote? Then ignore them until the next election?
And you’re forgetting the two biggest achievements Trump accomplished regarding blacks. He made Gregory Cheadle famous and created conditions for Clarence Thomas to come out of his shell to the point he’s actually asking questions during court proceedings.
Yuge accomplishments if you ask me.
Doug Cook,
That’s just so much bunk. Not only has the disparity between wages for blacks and whites increased under Trump (no surprise given the blatant racism he encourages), but his Justice Department rolled back Obama-era police reforms and accountability to focus on giving law enforcement what is apparently unquestioning “respect” and unconstitutional abilities (see the link below). He is also taking a hatchet to housing, food, and other programs that disproportionately affect the Black community.
Trump has a long and sordid history of racism, which he has continued during his administration by rushing to defend Nazis and other white supremacist groups (who he has repeatedly referred to as “very fine people”) at every opportunity, and in his focus on protecting the rights of whites (particularly white men), to the detriment of everyone else. He’s not the darling of white supremacist hate groups for nothing.
https://www.governing.com/topics/public-justice-safety/lc-sessions-justice-police-reforms-trump-doj-milwaukee.html
Here in Phoenix, no stranger to police shootings, the news showed Black Lives Matter protesters at City Hall. There were about ten of them and they wore masks, per COVI advice, and carried signs condemning the Lloyd killing. They rightly told the reporter how they were sick of police shootings.
Later that night All Black Lives Matter, a radical local group with no ties to BLM and actually have been condemned by BLM for their methods, showed up and the violence began. Their leader said they accomplished what they wanted to do.
Last week a father, grandfather, brother was shot to death by Phoenix police. The family rightly wants answers but none are coming because the police are investigating and cannot release details. There was no protests by BLM or any other minority group. Why? Because the man shot was White.
I believe the “Support the Blue” movement is losing much of their luster.
The actions of the Blue, highlighted by the murder of George Floyd makes support of this group questionable.
When LE surrender their obligations to maintain order who do you call.
The inaction by the Minneapolis PD is strange.
They experienced the crows the night before.
Why didn’t LE take action during the daytime to block streets, install barricades and establish security before nightfall.
I support the efforts of LE to do their jobs of serving and protecting the public.
There is no way I support the blue as a bumper sticker Slogan.
Police everywhere need to rebrand their call for support.
LE serve and protect property, not the public. The “public” often end up in choke holds and under the knee. Police don’t need to rebrand, they need reform.
Please, please, please let it be an elaborate joke…
“Russian space chief: Elon Musk’s plan to bomb Mars is a cover to put nuclear weapons in space”
https://thehill.com/policy/transportation/499968-russian-space-chief-elon-musks-plan-to-bomb-mars-is-a-cover-to-put
Heads up guitar players: Bill Kirchen on live stream now.
Gary, thanks! I forgot that Lyle Lovett and John Hyatt are live streaming tonight too!
The Titan of The Telecaster. I’ve been a fan dating back to his days as one of the Lost Planet Airmen, Commander Cody’s old band. He’s a regular at Hardly Strictly Bluegrass Festival, which amazingly hasn’t yet been canceled. Yet.
Dido That! Roy Buchanan wasn’t to shabby on the tele either … Looks like I missed the streaming AND the Black Lives Mater in Redding last night! Man, I’m out of touch!
My pleasure, Canace and I’ll now check for Lyle Lovett and John Hyatt live streams as well.
Steve — Yeah, if Hardly Strictly cancels this year, we will miss the early audio clues they put out on their website of who they’ve booked. We saw Bill there a couple years back when he came back on stage after wrapping his act and sat in with the next couple of bands. I believe he’s been live streaming every Friday at 5PM our time.
I think it’s safe to say that reporter Omar Jimenez is a young man with remarkable composure.
Hal — It’s one of those accounts I read about and say to myself, “That wouldn’t be me. I don’t think I could keep my head like that.”
Yesterday I read an account of a Black man in Alabama who at the end of the day decided to do his wife a favor and drive her car to fill up the gas tank. While he was there an older white woman was eyeing him suspiciously, and then called the police. Within minutes he was surrounded by cop cars. Apparently there had been a bank robbery in town that the woman had heard about. She thought the guy gassing his car was acting suspiciously. And he was black, like the robber. After a lengthy detainment and grilling at the pumps, a white man walked up and told the cops the black man has come from the opposite direction of the bank, from where he said he lived, and they immediately let him go. After all his explanations, all it took for the cops to free him was a sentence by a White man. He told his wife the entire time that in spite of his anger, he knew he could be killed if he acted out by getting in his car and trying to leave.
I also watched a self-filmed video of a black delivery man being prevented from leaving a gated culdesac by the White president of the homeowner’s association, who had cut the deliver man off with his car to block his exit. Responding to lengthy grilling about what he was doing there and how he got in, he kept saying: “I got in because a resident gave me the gate code. I made a delivery, now I’m leaving.”
“What did you deliver? To who? Who gave you the code?”
“Sir, that’s not your business. That business is between the resident and my employer.”
“This is private property. You’re trespassing. I could have you arrested.”
“Sir, I was provided the gate code and I had business here. I’ve done nothing wrong, and now I’m trying to leave. This is illegal detainment.”
It went on like that for a long time, with the delivery man calling his dispatcher while Racist Culdesac Trump also made phone calls. After he was finally released, it was heartbreaking to watch him pull over and lose his composure for the first time.
But yeah. One of the regulars here thinks we live in a post-racism country. He never assumes anything is racially motivated—why would you? They’re all color-blind over there on the right.
“Oh, you say Obama was Black? We thought he was just a shitty president. The guy who got murdered by the cops was Black? We just thought he was a petty criminal. Who knew?”
I may have bored you all with this before, but when Nat King Cole moved to a white neighborhood in Beverly Hills, the president of the HOA sent him a letter stating that they didn’t want any undesirables in their community. The legendary Mr. Cole wrote back that he absolutely agreed and if he noticed any undesirables, he would certainly notify the HOA.
When I bought a house in the nice older Redding neighborhood of Sunset Terrace about 8 years ago, I notice later that the papers included a page of CC&Rs. One of them stated that no “negroes” could spend the night in any house in the neighborhood, with the exception of unmarried female servants. I couldn’t believe it. The house had probably sold 3-4 times since built, including twice in the past decade, and that CC&Rs page had persisted.
I sold the house a year ago “by owner,” and those CC&R’s had been shredded long before the transaction. Was I taking a chance that my shredding act might be contested down the road? Maybe….but I figured that exactly zero current residents of the neighborhood would want to publicly defend those CC&Rs, even if some were still warm to the intent. (We had quite a few MAGA-hatted old people in the ‘hood.)
Too bad you didn’t sell to a black family.
Steve, I watched the video of the encounter between the delivery truck driver and the guy who blocked him in. There was no violence; nobody got hurt.
But damn, I’m with you: it was heartbreaking.
Hal…these anecdotal examples of racism doesn’t prove that the country is racist. It shows there are ignorant and racist people in this country. We will never rid ourselves of ignorant people. The most racist person I have ever met was a black person, caused him to be drummed out of the military. As someone who grew up in a racially mixed neighborhoods, I can describe numerous racist acts by African Americans… what does that prove? That blacks are inherently racist? Or that there are some racist blacks? Same as in the white community.
We have come a long way since Jim Crow and when Nat King Cole took heat for moving in a white neighborhood. But this is 2020… We have anti discrimination laws. There is no systemic racism…individual racism? Of course there is.
Last time I had this debate, there were a number of guilty white liberals that support segregated housing on our college campuses. That just blew my mind. Is that a racist stance? You decide.
Yes, Hal…stories of racism are heartbreaking, I abhor them. But you cannot indict an entire country for the ignorance of a few.
Doug, as long as the leader of America is a racist, it only goes to prove we are a racist country.
As long as “Americans” continue to wave the Stars and Stripes along side the stars and bars, we are a racist country. Can anyone defend the symbol of hatred and the symbol of black oppression while accepting the outright racist Implications?
Unfortunately, yes we are a racist country, led by a cheerleading racist leader.
Doug wants it both ways.
*He’s* not a racist—a bit of anecdotal evidence that he wants to count against the notion that there remains systemic racism in this country.
Also, every single American isn’t racist, and therefore systematic racism doesn’t exist.
Doug sez: “The most racist person I have every met was a black person….”
Yeah, sure. Without disputing that this particular black guy might have been racist AF, I call bullshit. An important component of racism (and most other -isms) is power—and its flip-side, vulnerability. That black guy might have been as hateful about race as you can get, but he doesn’t get to strut around like it’s his birthright to be privileged because of his race, as with white racists. He got drummed out of the military, for example. And I suppose all the white racists get drummed out of the military as well. :::snorts:::
I’ve gone back through this thread, initiated by Hal. Nowhere does anyone suggest that the whole country is racist—that’s just Doug’s usual straw man, built in his imagination for easy slaying. Saying that systematic racism still exists is *not* to say that the whole country is racist. That sauce is weak.
Hal — I watched the video and concur. He could not have been more professional.
It’s just flat wrong when you cannot avoid getting arrested for properly doing your job while black.
My comment landed way down here but it’s in response to the CNN reporter incident.
Gary, I found it anyway.
I’m also impressed with Minnesota governor Tim Walz’s straight-ahead, no BS apology to CNN for the improper arrests. Nowadays, it’s refreshing to witness that kind of “the buck stops here” leadership.
Yes. I’m with you regarding Minnesota’s governor. Coincidentally my wife and I shared the same impression earlier today.
Doug, you might be a very nice guy, but you are in a different reality than most Americans and you sure as hell can’t, or actually have any right, to speak for the African American. But, African Americans do and they state a, “overwhelming majority of black voters — 85 percent — said that they would choose any Democratic presidential candidate over President Trump.” Why? Because we know that explicitly or implicitly, we are a racist county. “85 percent of registered voters said that African-Americans face discrimination to some degree. That view was shared by 95 percent of Democratic respondents and 78 percent of Republicans.” And Clorox continues to call his neo – nazi base “good people,” and your defense of his vial behaviors are part of the racist, sexist and class sickness that is tRump. Not all of his base are nizi scum or pure “separate but equal” white nationalist, of course… but I can guaranty you nazis and white nationalists aren’t going to vote for Biden. And few days ago Clorox spewed, “the only good Democrat is a dead Democrat.” We know what he is trying to do.
Clorox uses racial polarization to call out to his voters, from day one, and most of American knows this well. If your attempt to pronounce Clorox isn’t racist so white people can feel a little better about him, your lying BS is not going to work.
If people don’t call you out for you BS, you going to think you reality is most substantial, but it’s just part of the tRumpublican BS storm to divide in attempt to conquer. We are watching and will respond.
“…Because we know that explicitly or implicitly, we are a racist county”
News flash Christian…we elected a black president not once, but twice. A black president that a LOT of white people voted for. No…we are not a racist country…we are a country that has a small number of racists. It is always the guilty white liberals that seem to want to speak for the black community.
Bringing up anecdotal examples of racism doesn’t make the leap that there is systemic racism in the country. Guilty white liberals don’t think black people are smart enough to get an ID to vote. There was a study recently showing that white liberals dumb themselves down when they speak to black people. “…“It appears that white liberals, who tend to be more motivated to get along with racial minorities, and who want to try to forge that connection, unfortunately seem to be relying on stereotypes to do so. And these stereotypes still tend to depict racial minorities as being less competent than whites,” the researchers said…this is from Yale.
it is interesting to me that you didn’t comment on the president’s numerous policies that has helped the black community, but instead you bring up nonsense like Nazis.
I don’t speak for the African-American community, and neither can you. But guilty white liberals seem to think they can. They treat African-Americans as victims.. Guess what, Christian…African Americans are in fact smart enough to get an ID to vote. despite what guilty white liberals think.
Rascism is rampant in this country, that is, people who think there are racial differences and some are better than others. usually designated by skin tone. Denying this destroys any power of observation you’ve been accorded from readers of ANC. Your opinion becomes meaningless when you are blind to the trials of others.
The US had a black president so that proves we aren’t racist? Doug obviously has a black friend.
Nazis in this country are “nonsense”? They’re “very good people” yeah Doug? Sympathizing with white supremacists while decrying the plight of the poor and people of color to the left of the peach crayon exposes the classic expression of bigotry that seem welcome to rear its ugly head when other heavy-thinkers of your ilk get together and take their hoods or Maga hats off.
What is your proof that racism is “rampant” in our country. What is the standard that you use? What law or policy in place in the US supports the claim of systemic racism? Tell me OP, are you against voter ID laws?
“…decrying the plight of the poor and people of color ”
Isn’t that what guilty white liberals do? Are you one of the guilty white liberals that oppose voter ID laws? That think black folks are not intelligent enough to apply for an ID? Watch this short video that shows how condescending guilty white liberals can be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW2LpFkVfYk
Doug sez: “Isn’t that what guilty white liberals do? Are you one of the guilty white liberals that oppose voter ID laws? That think black folks are not intelligent enough to apply for an ID?”
Yeah, Doug. Guilty white liberals oppose voter disenfranchisement laws, born of bullshit “voter fraud” hoaxes, because we don’t think black folks are intelligent enough to apply for IDs.
God, I seriously don’t know if I’ve ever encountered such a flaming rectal orifice (of an idea).
Dido That! Roy Buchanan wasn’t to shabby on the tele either … Looks like I missed the streaming AND the Black Lives Mater in Redding last night! Man, I’m out of touch!
Again Doug, you sure as hell can’t, or actually have any right, to speak for the African American. But, African Americans do and they state an, “overwhelming majority of black voters — 85 percent — said that they would choose any Democratic presidential candidate over President Trump.” Your lost in you delusion that this country does not have an explicit and or implicit racism problem and your president Clorox has both, all the way.
It occurred that you might not know what explicit and implicit are. Something is implicit when it is implied but not directly stated. Something is explicit when it is directly stated and leaves no room for uncertainty and that’s Clorox for you.
Guess what Doug, African Americans say are under the most racist regime in recent history, and America knows this, even republicans admit there’s a problem.
Last year, More than half of Americans, including large majorities of blacks and Hispanics, think President Donald Trump is a racist. More than half think his policies have made things worse for Hispanics and Muslims, and nearly half say they’ve made things worse for African Americans.
According to a new poll by The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research, 57 percent of Americans think Trump’s policies have been bad for Muslims, and 56 percent think they’ve been bad for Hispanics. Forty-seven percent, including three-quarters of blacks, think they’ve been bad for African Americans. Thinks it better today?
Has Criminal Idiot has improved the stats? On Mother’s Day Idiot went on a social media rampage, posting 128 tweets and retweets, many about a spurious scandal he called Obamagate, his delusional conspires about the African American he hates the most, from his Birther days to now.
After failing to protect America from Covid 19, crashing the economy and insulting the women of or nation, racism is all he has left. So, nope, I don’t think his official campaign selling “you ain,t Black” tee shirts made in China are improving his odd with the African American vote.
Your attempt to shine Clorox’s Shinola BS will be called out…
Steve- I grew up on Hallmark drive and delivered newspapers in Sunset Terrace (45 yrs ago)… ‘kin Ya imagine…
85% of Black voters, probably more, vote Democrat. If they show up which they did not in 2016. Will they show up in 2020 to vote for a Democrat who claims they are not Black if they don’t vote for him.
There is no way Trump should have won in 2016 and his chances are worse in 2020, but he will probably win. How many of the rioters are registered voters?
Bruce,
While we know a majority of the rioters are demonstrating institutional racism,
do we know how many of the rioters in Minneapolis are black?
Do we know if any of the rioters are actually radical right wing thugs inciting violence?
Does being a registered voter make a difference? It will in November but today it is nothing more than a defense of a corrupt system.
What I find absurd are the talking heads claiming this is some sort of coordinated effort of anarchy.
Like anarchism is a an organized element in America set out to destroy democracy.
I call bullshit.
This is nothing more than a outright display of disgust and mistrust of the system. Nation wide.
How do you react to distrust? Exactly what we have witnessed time and time again in America. By Attacking the very symbols of society that encourage the distrust. Capitalism is the target. The killing of another innocent black person is the cause of the rioting. The result of the damage is the price.
I do not think we’ve seen the end result.
How many of the “rioters” are registered voters?; Why isn’t Black Lives Matter showing up and decrying a white man’s murder?; We elected a black president..,; We’re a country with a small number of racists; There’s no systemic racism in our country, I can’t speak for “African-Americans” and neither can you, but… .
Ya, I can’t. Yes, Doug, many black people have been and still are VICTIMS of the results ensuing from hundreds of years of systemic and structural racism and the frustration and rage stemming from those things are playing out in real time in our streets. One needn’t be a liberal apologist or non-apologetic conservative (or whatever) to see that; one simply needs to open one’s eyes and remove the blinders. Young black men with no intention of committing any crime have to be taught by their parents how to behave in ways that reduce their very real chances of being killed by law enforcement. Since I’ll never be forced to have that impossibly soul-killing conversation I think perhaps I should STFU and listen to those who have and are. Liberal apologist? Nah, empathetic human being trying to relate to something which is literally impossible for me to do and so choosing instead to humbly pay attention and listen and try to be of help however I can. That help doesn’t include me saying “ I’m not racist!”, “Not ALL people are racists!” because that’s not the point; that’s never the point. I’d venture a guess that a good number of people saying they possess no racial bias are sorely lacking in, or incapable of, self-introspection. Implicit racial bias can and does exist as a product of simple geography in that we’re products of our environments; myself included. There’s a difference between being an apologist and getting a can opener out and opening up one’s mind and taking a hard look at oneself and coming to the difficult realization that there are things one should damn well be “sorry” for and if not sorry, at the very least, aware.
What we know ladies and gentleman is #BLACK.LIVES.MATTER has deployed in cities including DC all across ‘Merikkka… doesn’t look like they like what’s happening wit’ the Government, DUH! BLM is not a bunch of hoodlums and criminals they are “Community” and the activists are backing their play right here in little ole podunk where Trump is God… jist sayin’ +!+
https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/dc/george-floyd-protest-dc-white-house-capitol-hill-trump-hotel-highways/65-54c61594-cef6-40d8-9e14-b57adc026d5e
Jist Cuz (#JUST.CAUSE) +!+
It took Redding city council 17 years post the Federal GOV declaring Martin Luther King’s Birthday a National Holiday before they’d acknowledge the fact ask Isaac Lowe. WOW HUH +!+
https://krcrtv.com/archive/northstate-civil-rights-activist-isaac-lowe-dies_20160513172740695
Is Redding being burned up by protesters? You have no clue what is happening in other cities.
The Black Phoenix police chief has stated that what happened, the rioting and burning, downtown the last two nights will not happen tonight. Phoenix Mayor Gallego stated other police units and the National Guard are on alert and ready to help. If there are bodies it will rest on the shoulders of the protesters who like other cities are not from here.
Bruce, my daughter lives in Chicago and my son lives in New York. They do not live in the suburbs and they definitely “have a clue”. Before you attach blame to protestors please keep in mind that the rage behind the protests happening are in reaction to the BLACK BODIES of men and women being murdered by police. My daughter in Chicago just told me that she thinks a curfew will soon be imposed in Chicago where Mayor Lightfoot is trying to balance City reaction to Covid-19 worries and protests.
Candace, you have a clue because your daughter and son live in Chicago and NYC. But do you personally fear that the rioters may come to your neighborhood? I do. I am on the edge of White Privilege Sun City and it is highly possible that the rioters, if turned away downtown, could come up Grand Avenue and loot and burn. They already loot and burn their own area why wouldn’t they loot and burn the White area instead. That is what I mean when Redding hasn’t a clue to what is happening elsewhere.
The most disgusting Lloyd post I have seen was on Bethel Affilated. I am sure the admins will take it down so I shared it to my Facebook page. It shows that Redding already has extreme Racism and the Liberal do gooders on here should fix Redding before they tell elsewhere what to do.
Bruce jist “made” my point XCT.LY +!+
So because there’s extreme racism in Redding (duh) those who speak out against racism and the murder of black people by police ANYWHERE, they, we, me, are “liberal do-gooders”? Because if that’s the criteria you’re using, go ahead and label me a “do-gooder” and go ahead and slap “liberal” right next to it. I’d rather bear that label than say nothing or not continue to support candidates and causes trying to put an end to this racist shit in which many black people live in daily fear for there lives at the hands of the very people who took oaths to protect them. As far as Bethel goes, I have no interest whatsoever of following them on social media and I’ve publicly spoken out in the past against their ant-gay political activism.
“…So because there’s extreme racism in Redding (duh)…”
That’s news to me. What are your examples of the ‘extreme racism in Redding”?
Doug, if you think there is no extreme racism in Redding you obviously have never been involved with the public schools. I worked over 20 years at public schools in Redding and Shasta County and there has always been racism shown, some outright and some hidden. Neither Bethel or Trump brought racism to Redding, it has always been there.
Thanks, Bruce.
One of my earliest memories of Redding involved sitting around with some guys after playing racquetball, shooting the breeze. I don’t recall how the conversation started, but it came around to race. One of the guys said, “I’ve lived my whole life in Redding. The n****** used to be okay because they knew their place. Problem is, they don’t know their place anymore.”
I spent the next 30 seconds or so trying to fashion what I’d just heard into the worst joke ever, but he was dead serious. I was around 35 years old at the time, and I hadn’t heard anyone say anything that blatantly racist since junior high school. To this day, Redding is by far the meanest, dumbest place I’ve ever lived. Racism is just part of that meanness and dumbness.
A side-note: We all know that Bethel is exerting a noticeable influence on our local culture. I wouldn’t be surprised if Bethel’s two conservative local-boy bush-league theologians/carnival barkers, Alpha Rube J and Beta Rube V, are both racist AF. But I know a lot of younger Bethelites—born and raised elsewhere—and at least they’re not a pack of mean-ass racists, for the most part. To a degree, the young Bethel immigrants have diluted the local native racism.
Bruce, there is racism in every city and town. There are burglaries and car thefts in every town. I would love a crime free town or a racist free town, that ain’t gonna happen. Rainbow dreams and unicorn wishes. I guess I have an issue with the label, “extreme racism”
My wife is a teacher in the school system up here, There have been some isolated incidents, but to describe it as “extreme racism” is a bit of a stretch for me.
One of the things Bethel brought to Redding is diversity in a mostly lily white community. There are races from all over the world attending Bethel.
You are correct when you say that Trump did not bring racism to Redding…but there are certainly plenty on here that are blaming Trump for racism.
I cleaned racist graffiti off bathroom walls some times written in s++t daily in public schools. I would call that extreme.
“There is racism in every city and town”
So what? False equivalency. Some places are clearly more racist than others. The question is: Why? Why does racism find a comfortable home in certain places, but not in others?
“…but there are certainly plenty on here that are blaming Trump for racism.”
Nobody is blaming Trump for racism—that’s both false and asinine. We blame him for pandering to racists with racist dog-whistles and white nationalist rhetoric. We blame him for setting the tone that has resulted in a surge of violence against minorities.
September, 2016 just before the presidential election, in a casual discussion at a local c service club meeting I asked, we can’t really be ignorant enough to elect this clown to the presidency, can we? One response I received from a prominent local banker was “Hell, we elected a n****r didn’t we”!
…and as I speak, downtown Chicago is exploding into total chaos. This is some scary shit. For everybody.
Doug, since you’re limiting it to Redding, here’s a few examples for you. My neighbor iacross the street refers to black people as “n…..s” and sikh’s as ”towelheads” . My electrician ( fairly new to a well known company in Redding) said that one of the company’s long time employees makes it no secret that he does not want to work with any “n…..s”. This same electrician was working on the Turtle Bay Hotel/Restaurant when it was being built. The day before MLK day he asked a couple of other construction workers if they’d be working the holiday. They feigned ignorance, asking “ what holiday?” When he answered they said “We don’t recognize “n….r” holidays. He said that in his line of work he hears stuff like that all the time but was taken aback by the hateful way in which it was spat out. I know another person who uses racial slurs on a regular basis. Needless to say he is not a friend if mine. During the Carr Fire someone hung a huge “Thank You firefighter’s” banner from the Sundial Bridge complete with EVROPA printed on it. One person in my Redding family has many FB friends living here that talk on FB about their perceived threat of “brown people “taking over”. My grandparents lived in one of the first homes built in Sunset Terrace and were part of what was then considered to be the “respectful” members of Redding; meaning wealthy and conservative. My grandparents died when I was very young and looking back I’m quite certain they were extremely racist. Moving past the years when Redding was predominantly Democrat and fast forwarding to 2020 and the predominance of Trump supporters today I don’t think much as changed and in fact may have gotten worse. That all said, I’m pretty sure your response will include “Trump’s not racist”, “ALL Trump supporters aren’t racist” and “my examples were anecdotal and while “bad”, “sad”, they don’t represent ALL people in Shasta County ( which of course they don’t and I can’t believe it’s still necessary to include that distinction but there you have it; sigh).
You asked, I answered. You and I arguing about the existence or non-existence of rampant racism in our country or anywhere else is of course of no consequence to its existence either way.
As I mentioned elsewhere: When I bought a house in Redding’s Sunset Terrace neighborhood about 8 years ago, I noticed later that the papers included a page of CC&Rs. One of them stated that no “negroes” could spend the night in any house in the neighborhood, with the exception of unmarried female servants. Those CC&Rs had persisted through two sales in the previous decade. When I sold the house about a year ago, those CC&Rs had long since been fed to a shredder.
From superpower to failed state, in less than one presidential term.
And trump is still allowed the opportunity to make things much, much, worse.
Will any trump-induced-national-disaster be sufficiently catastrophic to get Senators to finally honor their oaths, and remove trump from office?
No segue, but here’s another video by the same doctor we posted in the beginning of this coronavirus mess. He makes sense to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCI1RgFWhZI&feature=emb_rel_end
Doni,
I liked the last video you posted from this guy, but I have to disagree with you, as I believe he is being disingenuous here, and his estimate of the COVID-19 death rate is (nearly) impossibly high.
He does have a point that many more of the currently ill will die, increasing the “numerator” in the death rate, a factor often overlooked. I have never seen an informed estimate of this factor, but we can only hope most of the currently ill will eventually recover.
He is, however, greatly misrepresenting the significance of the “denominator” question.
You may recall me questioning Dr. Greenberg on this subject previously.
We know the total number of COVID cases (the denominator) in the USA far exceeds the 1.8 million found by testing.
A popularly held belief in the medical community is that the death rate is somewhere close to (or even less than) 1%. Since the actual USA death rate is ~6% of total positive tests to date, a 1% death rate implies the belief that the current infection rate is ~6 times the number found by testing (or, ~11 million Americans already infected) and also that nearly all the currently ill patient will survive.
IMO, this may be a case of collective “wishful thinking”, but there is pretty clear evidence that at least twice as many infections exist (and probably many more) as have been detected. These are the infected but asymptomatic, people with atypical/minor symptoms, or just people without access to testing.
So I think we can be fairly sure the final death rate will be calculated as far less than the “18% to 24%” suggested in that video, and (hopefully) less than one tenth of that estimate.
“To a degree, the young Bethel immigrants have diluted the local native racism.” Steve is correct and its the ONLY good thing I see in Bethel. Its like making the choice for the lesser of two evils +!+