Open Conversation for April, 2020

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351 Responses

  1. Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

    Where is the next hot spot?
    I have marveled at how Mexico seems to have escaped the massive COVI cases in other countries. Now I find out how Mexico has been following the Trump playbook. Ignore COVI because it is only in other countries and the few cases in Mexico have been caused by those who traveled to other countries, Vail Colorado, and brought it back to Mexico.
    Only now has Mexico started efforts, last week, to mitigate COVI. The news reports that Arizona has over a thousand confirmed cases, growing daily, while across the border Sonora state has reported less than a dozen. The bandaid Wall is not preventing that. Ignore, blame and only now are they taking the threat of COVI in Mexico seriously.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      I think it’s a given that much of the 2nd- and 3rd-world has taken the position that they don’t have the resources to deal with this, so they’ll just let God sort it out. It’s likely especially true that areas where tourism is king are loath to face reality. A group of 70 spring breakers from Austin TX who had chartered a flight to Cabo San Lucas 1.5 weeks ago have returned, and 28 of them have tested positive…so far.

  2. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Unfit for office. The deaths of thousands on his hands. He should be immediately removed from office.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      “President Donald Trump on Tuesday said he knew from the start that thousands of Americans could die from the novel coronavirus but downplayed the threat because he wanted to stay positive and be a “cheerleader” for the country.”

      Where “the country” means “the stock market.”

  3. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    I’m so jaded about Trump that I suspect he was convinced to roll out the 100,000-240,000 possible deaths prediction on the argument that it’s feasible to keep the numbers lower, for which he can then claim sole credit in the month or two preceding Election Day.

    You can’t tell me that didn’t happen.

    • Avatar Common Sense says:

      I don’t think that over estimating the numbers now, then if they come in short of that, will make him a Hero one bit. There are just Too many Americans that know he absolutely BLEW IT. In other words at this point….I am not going to believe Another Lie of his to cover for all the previous lies! Only the Cult 45 devotees will still rally behind this 5150.

      Elect a Clown…..get a Death Circus. Not fit to be a page boy this guy.

      Criminal Homicide……Negligence…Failure to UP Hold his Duty…..he took an Oath…..he is a Russian Asset.

      Kelly Anne Conway stuck her foot in her mouth today saying that Biden needs to immediately call the White House for his help! He called that bluff old Biden…..crafty old coot! Now if they don’t follow through and at least Listen to him and what should be done…..guess who will be running ADS for the next 6 months…… “When our Country was in the Middle of one of the greatest Threats we have ever known and the President dropped the Ball….Joe Biden gave them some Sound Advice that the Administration Didn’t even use!”….Kind of like the Obama Pandemic Response Protocol!

      Bam……the sad part of this……tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands will have to die for his mistake. Which by the way to all the Cult 45 folks….he ADMITTED to it.

    • Avatar Common Sense says:

      I don’t think this Dr. will get invited back to Faux News! BAM……calling it as he sees it, He’s not into Alternative Facts. We had a WEAK Response he says.

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        That’s the difference between Fox and MSNBC. Fox is willing to put on people with a wide variety of views. They don’t stick to the party line like MSNBC does.

        • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

          Fox “News” has been proven to the be LEAST truthful – by far – of the major media outlets. What Fox doesn’t “stick to” is the truth.

          • Avatar Candace says:

            Fox…open minded guest coverage vs MSNBC…HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. MSNBC and FOX are equally biased in their “left” or “right” slant; one just happens to not support Trump and his cronies (spoiler alert – it ain’t Fox).

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          Doug — Going all the way back to “HANNITY and colmes,” right?

          Anyway, how would you know? You’ve claimed at least a dozen times that you don’t watch Fox News.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            A dozen times? I have never said I don’t watch Fox news. You just love to make up stuff about me, don’t you? What I have said is that I probably watch MSNBC just as much as Fox to get a different perspective. What I do avoid watching on Fox is Hannity. I try to watch Bret Baier as much as possible on Fox…the best news show on TV, and Tucker Carlson. I watch Rachel Maddow as much as I can stand as well as Morning Joe. Chris Matthews was entertaining until he was forced to quit, and of course Al Sharpton was always good for a laugh. Math wizard and pathological liar Brian Williams I steer away from. Unlike many on here, I am not afraid of and actively seek out differing opinions, so I have a pretty good perspective on the differences between them.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Doug Cook,

            I can also remember your claims that you don’t watch Fox “News”.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Nope, sorry Patrecia, you are mistaken. I have said a number of times that I never watch Hannity, but I do watch some Fox shows daily. Bret Bair and Tucker Carlson to be exact.

            By the way, I asked the other day what was your source in your statement that Bethel is causing disturbances at hospitals” That is a rather slanderous comment without any proof.

    • Avatar christian gardinier says:

      Anyone taking bets tRump might try and suspend the election or enact marshal law?

  4. Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

    Locally Bethel Church attendees and others of their ilk (many of whom believe coronavirus numbers are being over-inflated just to hurt Trump’s reelection prospects) have been clogging up hospital parking lots, blowing their horns, and creating a general disturbance to supposedly show support for the medical staff.

    This is a national PR tactic by religious fundamentalists. In other parts of the country these people are being told to stop this pointless and potentially detrimental activity. Of course nothing is being done here (despite multiple complaints to the City) because this is Redding – where Bethel Church is allowed to pour tons of money into RPD and other City services, and anything its adherents do is apparently just fine.

  5. Avatar Ed Marek says:

    Two important sites to watch over this month:

    “Coronavirus COVID-19 Global Cases by the Center for Systems Science and Engineering (CSSE) at Johns Hopkins University” shows the planetary and national/regional toll, >190,000 positive tests and 4,100 deaths to date in the USA.

    And to anticipate the pandemic’s expansion, both nationwide and by state, watch the “optimistic” model posted here:

    This is the model Dr. Fauci and others were referring to at trump’s campaign rally yesterday when they said the “best case” was that the USA could suffer “only” 84,000 fatalities.

    Two main points you should note:

    Trump was lying yet again when he said Americans were facing “two weeks” of Hell. We are facing, at the least, several MONTHS of active pandemic. The median projection as of today is that American deaths per day will not even peak, at over 2,600 until March 16, and that, following a slow decline, America will still be suffering over 200 deaths per day into June.

    This model is dynamic, and as the daily pandemic reports come in, it is updated.

    So whereas the “optimistic” projection of Americans dying was “only” about 84,000 yesterday, it has been updated to 93,765 COVID-19 deaths as of today, as another day of the rapidly increasing numbers of pandemic victims was entered into the model.

    • Avatar christian gardinier says:

      Wait, stop the press! tRump told a lie?

      • Avatar Common Sense says:

        Ed he doesn’t tell lies! It’s all the Truth in his mind with this Alternative Facts he has created and the Cult 45 devotees have lapped up. Anyway it took awhile… a couple months after the election to figure out when he Really Is Telling a Bald Faced Lie, If his lips are moving, that’s a Lie out his mouth coming directly from that Reptilian part of his Malignant Narcissist brain.

        He is running True to his Pathology. ((((((( and that should scare the hell out of anyone that has ever taken a Psychology class in college )))))))). That’s the part no one can debate or if they do they look incredibly Stupid. He is not well.More people will die.

  6. Avatar Ed Marek says:

    Correction to my comment above:

    “…The median projection as of today is that American deaths per day will not even peak, at over 2,600 until APRIL 16…”

    Our highest national priority during this catastrophe, as Bill Gates comments below, is “a consistent nationwide approach to shutting down”.

    Unfortunately, this directive cannot penetrate trump’s reality distortion field.

    And so, the slaughter continues…

    “Bill Gates: Here’s how to make up for lost time on covid-19

    First, we need a consistent nationwide approach to shutting down. Despite urging from public health experts, some states and counties haven’t shut down completely. In some states, beaches are still open; in others, restaurants still serve sit-down meals.

    This is a recipe for disaster. Because people can travel freely across state lines, so can the virus. The country’s leaders need to be clear: Shutdown anywhere means shutdown everywhere. Until the case numbers start to go down across America — which could take 10 weeks or more — no one can continue business as usual or relax the shutdown. Any confusion about this point will only extend the economic pain, raise the odds that the virus will return, and cause more deaths…”

  7. Avatar ChrisSolberg says:

    Oh this drug Remdesivir for Coronavirus has people and articles of people getting cured just like my friend in Santa Rosa from the brink of death I described earlier here. From Science Magazine …

    “Q: When did the patient start on remdesivir?
    A: From diagnosis to therapy, about 36 hours, which is very short for emergency approval of an investigational drug.
    Q: How sick was the patient?
    A: We thought they were going to pass away.
    Q: One truism of antivirals for acute diseases is that if you start them late, they don’t work. Do you think that the point at which you gave her the treatment was early enough for it to have worked?
    A: I think so. One requirement was that the patient had to have a positive test [showing the presence of SARS-CoV-2] right before starting the drug to make sure that they hadn’t spontaneously already cleared the virus. The day after the infusion of the drug, they consistently got better. I can’t prove it’s related. I wish we had been able to do serial [polymerase chain reaction] PCR testing of their blood, but we couldn’t because of lack of resources. With most investigational drugs tested in, say, macaque monkeys, there’s a nice correlation between the administration of the drug and a drop in the amount of virus in the blood. That’s what we hoped we could have seen in this patient.”

  8. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Some of you out there might be thinking….why is the Orange Guy so in Love with Putin and MBS?

    The answer is as simple as they were the only ones that would lend him the hundreds of Millions when he was struggling when no USA bank would.

    Putin personally Guaranteed one of the Orange Guys largest loans. A True Billionaire doesn’t need his lender to delay payments….only someone that is broke does that.

    Remember all that talk about we need to get this Country working again and open everything back up? Six of Donald Trump’s seven highest revenue-generating properties are currently shut down due to the coronavirus crisis.

    Kompromat can be explained like this also…….I gave you huge loans ( or co signed) … need to pay me back… is what you will be doing.

    Follow the Money they say……

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Some of us out here might be thinking and wondering why you are so obsessed with the president. You need a new hobby.

      • Avatar Chad Magnuson says:

        If people are not obsessed with trump at this time it only explains one thing.
        They are either completely uniformed or they do not believe the awful truth about what is happening in front of them.

        I refuse to accept anything coming from the foul mouth of trump or anything from the mouths of those who feel obligated to first praise his majesty prior to making a statement.
        I feel that way not because I detest trump but because I’ve learned from his example.

        It is obvious there are many who have not listened to what he says.

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        Doug Cook,

        It’s not an “obsession”. It’s a natural (alarmed) reaction to having a clearly deranged sociopathic criminal in charge of the country.

  9. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    I’ve said before on ANC that my favorite news periodical is The Economist. For one thing, it’s barely right-of-middle politically, so
    I get a somewhat conservative POV that’s not rabidly partisan and delusional—hard to come by in this country, even with the National Review. Second, get the perspective of a friendly ally, but one who sees us for what we are.

    Anyway, The Guardian is British, and it shares the advantage of a friendly but objective outsider looking in.

    Everyone should read this and remember it:

    If you’re in the mood for something a little less objective, here’s a NYT critique of our idiot COVID-19 Czar, Jared Kushner.

    Regarding the latter: We’re probably not ALL going to die. Just tens to hundreds of thousands who didn’t need to.

    • Hal Johnson Hal Johnson says:

      Back in my thirties, I kept two magazines on my coffee table: the National Review, and Mother Jones.

      Heh. If I was striving for a balance, I think I may have been a little off.

      It was an article in National Review that utterly changed my view of the War on Drugs. What a horrible waste.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        I still read NR articles, but I can barely stomach the comments. Every conservative who tries to be reasonable (including well-reasoned critiques of Trump’s performance) gets crucified. I gave up on Mother Jones decades ago. I have an aversion to a certain type of liberalism that I can’t quite put into words*….but it’s all the reasons I’d have a tough time living in Mt. Shasta.

        *Maybe: Liberalism as righteous blind faith, rather than a coherent philosophy.

  10. Avatar Ed Marek says:

    Today, three weeks into trump’s failed disorganized and half-assed “social distancing” efforts to contain the national pandemic, we are seeing… more of the same, both on the federal and state level.

    It is beyond disgusting that these dozen mini-trump governors are still following the same disastrous course we’ve seen from the white House and in most of the other trumpist-controlled states, of allowing the virus to spread until it’s too late to act effectively to prevent a catastrophic pandemic, and then collapsing into hysteria and panic.

    “‘I just don’t understand why we’re not doing that’: Fauci calls for nationwide stay-at-home order, despite Trump’s resistance

    Trump has said certain states can treat the coronavirus outbreak differently. Fauci publicly disagreed Thursday night…

    all of the 12 remaining holdout states are run by Republican governors…”

  11. Avatar Candace says:

    People (by themselves and in groups of two’s and three’s walking side by side) in my neighborhood are still walking, biking, sans any face protection. This includes couples with small children who I fervently hope (although headed that direction) are not congregating in the small park down the street and climbing on the play structures. Shasta County still has many who don’t get it or do but still don’t follow social distancing and I’m afraid the newest recommendation to cover your face when out in public is going to be an uphill battle. Also, this: I have one used N95 mask from the Carr Fire. Because of the shortage among hospitals, etc, I feel squeamish about wearing it in public if for some reason I need to leave (haven’t needed to for three weeks) my home. That said, it seems dumb not to use something I already have and I’m pretty sure our hospitals don’t want my one used mask. Could be wrong? Anyone else that has a leftover Carr fire mask feeling this way about wearing it?

  12. Avatar Candace says:

    *Then again, I suppose appearing to be an insensitive asshole is better than becoming sick (or dead) or taking a chance that I might be the cause of those same outcomes for others. Of course this hinges on the fact of whether or not I’m wrong about donating my used mask.

  13. Avatar Candace says:

    So I just heard (“…noted not-scientist Donald Trump, Ph.D., Doctor of Phuckery…” -Michael Harriot) emphasize several times that the general public needing to wear face masks is completely voluntary and that he, himself, more than likely wont wear one. Perfect. Way to lead. Again. Listen to the health experts and cover up unless you can’t due to health reasons. I mean, how is that hard? We’re not being asked to remove a limb; we’re being asked to help keep everyone, including ourselves, out of harm’s way. Please. Just do it.

  14. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    “… Listen to the health experts”
    We did, Dr Fauci told us 3 weeks ago that healthy people didn’t need to wear masks. I listened to the experts and didn’t worry about it. “…”There’s no reason to be walking around with a mask,” infectious disease expert Dr. Anthony Fauci told 60 Minutes. Both the World Health Organization and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommended people wear masks only when taking care of those who are sick or suspected of having the virus.

    There are still experts out there that believe wearing masks can give you a false sense of security, I have no masks and have no plans to buy any. Give them to medical personnel. What is wrong with saying it is voluntary? What do you want? Getting fined for leaving the house without one? There is a big difference between recommending people use masks and making it mandatory.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      We’re not mistaken, Doug. You’ve repeatedly claimed in the past, when accused of parroting Fox News, that that you don’t watch it.

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        No Steve, you are mistaken.. Perhaps you misunderstood me when I said a few times that I never use Fox as a source.

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          Nope. We’re not mistaken.

          Us: Faithfully parroting the propaganda on Fox News again, Doug?

          You: I don’t even watch Fox News.


    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      Several weeks ago they were giving that advice because there was a severe shortage of N95 masks, and then even dust masks—shortages that remain such that healthcare providers are still making their own cloth masks—and Fauci was trying to prioritize reserving what few we had for front-line healthcare providers.

      We had that severe shortage because we were unprepared.

      We were unprepared because the Trump Administration squandered six weeks ignoring all the experts and evidence, telling everyone that there wasn’t really a problem, thanks to Prince Jared Endomorph thinking he was expert enough to assess the threat, and deemed it a PR issue.

      Guess what? Now Der Pumpkinführer has put his idiot-in-law back in charge of a shadow response team. Guess what? The idiot-in-law made his first appearance yesterday at one of Trump’s daily briefings, and promptly said that the federal cache of supplies and equipment was “supposed to be *our* stockpile,” and wan’t going to be distributed to the states.

      OUR stockpile? Who the fuck is he talking about? He sounds like Dr. Strangelove telling the President that soon the elite will be forced to retreat to the underground salt domes, and it’ll be necessary to have a ratio of 20 women to every man to repopulate the Earth.

  15. Avatar Candace says:

    If one refers to initially listening to and following the advice of health experts such as Dr. Fauci and the CDC regarding masks, why would one not listen to these same experts when they change their recommendation rather then seeking out opposite advice? Hardly seems logical. In fact it smacks of willful stubbornness and dangerous “me over others cuz I’m smarter than they are” in the face of a pandemic. Mandatory mask wearing?! Why has no one thought of that?! Oh, wait, they have. Excellent idea!

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Here is what you did Candace…because you like Dr Fauci , you give him leeway to be able to change his mind. It’s perfectly ok for him to change his mind when new facts come to light. But when the president changes his mind, you and others on here call him a liar, or say he should have known in December, or ignore it. “…why would one not listen to these same experts when they change their recommendation”
      I don’t know…why wasn’t Dr Fauci wearing a mask all day today? is he being willfully stubborn or dangerous?

      Face masks? The president is blamed for the shortage of N95 face masks. Can we put the blame on Trump? Partly…but let’s go back 10 years, The U.S. federal stockpile of N95 protective face masks was largely depleted during the 2009 swine flu outbreak and was not restocked. Will you put partial blame on the Obama administration? No…because you like President Obama and would never criticize his administration. After his first term, government scientists had estimated that “a severe flu outbreak infecting 20 to 30 percent of the population would require at least 1.7 billion of the N95 respirators. But yet, nothing was done. Yes, the Trump administration must bear some responsibility for not rebuilding the depleted supplies. But if you did that, then be fair and hold the Obama administration to the same standard. This is what I have been saying for weeks. It is built in systematic bureaucratic failures that crosses over many administrations for many of the issues confronting us. . You can’t put the entire blame on one person for a crisis the likes this country has never seen in our history, including the Civil War.

      • Avatar Candace says:

        Doug, making assumptions about others you do not know (in this case that being me) is always tricky as those assumptions end up many times to be incorrect. Talking “down” to those same people (again, me) doesn’t typically result in any kind of genuine conversation if that’s what you’re after (and you say you are).
        An example being “Candace, here’s what you did…”. While I readily admit I regrettably did not go to school after high school other than a few classes at Shasta college (favorite being Cultural Anthropology being taught at the time by Ed Cluett) I’m perfectly capable of being aware of what I’m saying as I say it and therefore what I’m “doing” as I’m doing it. This is why I originally stopped conversing with you or addressing you personally in my comments when responding to something you’ve said. After this comment I’ll go back to doing just that. While I realize you don’t give a hoot about what I do or don’t think and imagine this to more than likely fall on deaf ears or ears that simply dismiss me as stupid (and therefore unable to string thoughts and sentences together while being fully aware of what I’m meaning to say and how I’m saying it. That said, I agree with you that you have just as much right to comment and voice your opinions on this platform as the next person. Take good care. Wear a mask.

  16. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Where you get your news matters. In this case it will matter a lot when the cases start rolling in against Faux News. It will be interesting to see who wins in those Lawsuits. Denying Reality and the Truth has Consequences also.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      I will make the assumption that you never watch Fox News, CS. So…how about a few examples of Fox lying or any practice of theirs that would warrant lawsuits. And then we can compare it to the numerous times MSNBC was forced to apologize or fire someone for lying or despicable behavior on air. I’ll be waiting for your examples.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        If we had a local “Heroes of the Pandumbic,” Doug would be our Sean Hannity.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        Doug — I think it’s safe for us to
        assume that you didn’t watch the video CS posted.

        You can call it fibbing. Or you can call it falsifying. Or you can call it dissembling. Or you can call it dissimulating. But ya’s don’t has ta call it lies and the lying liars who tell them.

        • Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

          Steve, I never watch you tube videos because they can and are edited and are the most unreliable source of information. If they were factful than they would be posted on reputable media. I watch CBS, ABC and FOX and I find the constant derogative remarks posted on here about FOX are untrue.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Bruce — The video from the Daily Show is indeed a rapid-cut mix of statements made by Fox talking heads, the President, and others. They are snapshots of actual stated opinions. The people who said those things are now denying having said them. The quick-cut technique is sometimes misused, but here it serves as proof that the denials are blatant lies.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Sure…edited cuts from a comedy show. great source. On Morning Joe the other day. Joe Scarborough said “We’ve heard that nobody could’ve seen this coming. The fact is, everybody saw this coming. Everybody saw this coming in early January,” He said again, Unlike Trump, “Everybody saw this coming in early January”.

            On the contrary, the entire network of MSNBC did not once mention the coronavirus or the pandemic rapidly spreading across China until January 18th, not “early January.” Neither Scarborough or his co-host Mika Brzezinski mentioned coronavirus on their show until six days later on January 24. MSNBC’s medical expert said this in late January…” Americans should be much more worried about the seasonal flu.” I guess MSNBC was lying too, eh? If you want, I can put together an edited youtube video of MSNBC hosts downplaying the threat of the virus.

            Did you know that in the Feb 19th Democrat debate, there was not one question about the coronavirus? and in the Feb 25th debate. there was only 1 question? Was CNN and MSNBC deceiving us about the coronavirus? After all apparently we were all concerned about it, except for the president and Fox.

            Once again, this is what Joe Scarbourough said earlier this week, “…“We’ve heard that nobody could’ve seen this coming. The fact is, everybody saw this coming. Everybody saw this coming in early January,” Did Scarbourough lie? Or did we all see this coming but the network chose to ignore it on their broadcasts? What was the Morning Joe show talking about in January and early Feb? Impeachment of course.

            So don’t give me that crap about Fox lying about the coronavirus, unless you want to call MSNBC liars too.

          • Avatar Gary Tull says:

            Bruce — Back while living in Redding, I endured similar arguments seemingly daily for over 10 years.

            As in a Jack Nicholson movie, “Open your goddamn eyes! “

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            A source? I never said it was anything other than what it is: A montage of videotaped opinions, date-stamped by when they were opined. Make of them what you will.

            Your broken-record retort is always going to be that everyone was as slow as Trump and Fox and you to understand how bad this was going to get. That argument is just another obvious falsehood repeated ad nauseam by a guy who can never admit he was wrong. Or, if he was wrong, *everyone* had to be wrong.

            We see you, Doug. What you’re claiming is false, and reeks of guilt and desperation.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            How is what I said a falsehood…they are actual facts. You rewriting history is the falsehood. If every network but Fox was concerned about the viris in early January…why were there no questions about the virus from the MSNBC moderators in the Feb 19th debate?

            “… Make of them what you will” You seem determined to call opinions from Fox lies. I certainly don’t see it that way. When MSNBC had experts on in late January telling us not to worry about the virus…was that a lie? Or just their educated opinion. It turned out to be false, correct? Then why don’t you hold MSNBC to the same standard that you do with Fox?

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Doug — I never said a thing about how the networks compared—that’s *your* obsession. As I’ve said many times, I think all TV news is garbage.

            But I’ll play along. The falsehood that you cling to like a barnacle on the hull of the Trumptanic is one of false equivalency. You take a fact—no American news media were treating this in January as they are treating it today, now that the shit has hit the fan.

            You want that truth to extend farther. You want us to believe that all along, Republicans and Demos, and the conservative and liberal media, we’re equal in their dismissiveness, mockery, poo-pooing, downplaying, and fantastical predictions of miraculous avoidance.

            One small problem there, Doug: That’s a ludicrous, blatant, embarrassingly obvious lie. And to keep repeating it makes the compulsive teller of the lie look like a flaming dumbass.

            So go ahead and keep repeating that crap. I’ll just stand back and watch. There’s no point in debating you if you’re going to insist on defeating yourself.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Then show me…show me any news report from January that shows there was grave concern about the virus. I gave you a number of examples of the media not reporting it, or downplaying the seriousness of it. I am refuting the false narrative that Trump knew about the danger of this virus and should have done more in early January. . I am not comparing networks, I am saying that all news outlets weren’t reporting about the virus in January. Democrat candidates weren’t concerned about the virus, virus experts weren’t concerned. But despite that…you insist that Trump should have known better and reacted in early January. Heck, christian uses the date of Dec 31st as the day concern was raised, when experts then didn’t think there was human to human transfer. So tell me Steve…in early January, what would you have liked the president to do when all the experts, including Dr Fauci were telling him and us not to worry? If the alarm was raised in January..and Trump should have leapt into action…why were there no questions about the virus in the 2 debates in February? Ok, there was one question in then Feb 25th debate that they spent 2 minutes on.

            My broken-record retort is simply the stupid narrative and rewriting of history that we all supposedly knew about the danger of coronavirus in January, but the president chose to ignore it. Why don’t you read what I actually write, instead of changing my meaning to make it easier for you to argue.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            More of the same? Did you even read what I last wrote?


          • Hal Johnson Hal Johnson says:

            Steve, you’re pissed off, and I get it. Tim aggravated the poo poo out of me at times, but he was generally thoughtful, and I miss him.

            I usually skip over Doug’s comments because I think he isn’t interested in genuine discourse. When I have read his comments, I don’t ever remember agreeing with him.

            But: “And to keep repeating it makes the compulsive teller of the lie look like a flaming dumbass.”

            Okay, Steve, one could argue that you didn’t actually call Doug a “flaming dumbass.” But c’mon, you kinda did. I don’t have grandkids, but I suspect that your separation from them is not benefiting your temperament.

            You’ve offered a laundry list of why Doug isn’t a constructive presence several times over the months, and I agree with that list.

            But, c’mon.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Hal — You’re right. I intentionally made the “dumbass” accusation broader than a single person, because there are hoards of people out there mindlessly defending Trump’s performance in this crisis, using similar arguments (though less dependent on endless repetition of logical fallacies).

            But of course, my broad slur was meant particularly to include Doug. Somewhere along the line I was taught to say someone “looks like a dumbass” rather than call them a dumbass—but if I’m being honest, I meant the latter.

            Yeah, I have to realize that his intent is to play me like a hooked trout—Doug has no interest in honestly debating ideas. It’s pure, thoughtless rabid tribalism.

            And absolutely, it makes me miss the hell out of Tim. I miss having a guy around who could change my mind, not just make me lament the levels of human intellect and decency in the place where I ended up putting down roots.

            I’m not going to call for a Doug-out. Others can continue to pound their foreheads against that brick wall—but I’m joining you. Done reading his comments, done taking the bait. Thanks for talking some sense into me.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Hal, how do you come to the conclusion that I am not interested in genuine discourse? Is it because I have differing opinions than the 99% of you that post on here? There has been weeks upon weeks of nothing but trashing the president on here over the coronavirus while ignoring actual facts that I have been pointing out, that has been largely ignored by most of you all, and if not ignored, then my intelligence called into question. As a political science major in college, that spent that time debating issues with other students with a myriad of political beliefs, I am absolutely flabbergasted over the close mindedness of many on here.

            My friend Patrecia, who I have been debating for years now, mostly on the RS made an outrageous comment the other day that went unchallenged by everyone but me. She said that Bethel students were driving up to the hospitals in Redding and causing a disturbance. Since I keep my nose to the ground on what’s happening in Redding. That was the first I heard of this claim. After a fair amount of research, I could find no evidence that what she claimed ever occurred. I asked her 3 times hence about where she got that information from, realizing that she lives in Arizona, and she has not responded back as of yet. Is that genuine discourse, Hal? Is it not important to question supposed facts if it doesn’t ring true? Or is it more important on here to quote the party line. To not upset the readers with opposing facts and truths. How many of you out there have a worse opinion of Bethel because you believed Patrecia’s story without questioning it?

            Others on here are insisting that the president should have known in early January that the virus was going rage out of control around the world. That didn’t make sense to me, it sounded like a lot of Trump hating rhetoric. So what did I do? I dug into media archives, I looked at what the experts were saying, I looked at the media coverage back in January, I scanned through the Democratic debates in January and February looking for concern from the people that want to be president….nothing, not even mentioned until Feb 25th debate…with only 2 minutes devoted to it.

            So to come to the conclusion that everyone was concerned except for the president is an outright falsehood. Did the federal government fail in many ways? Most assuredly. Just as they failed in 9/11, Benghazi, Iraq and on and on. Did the CDC fail us? Yes…but it was systemic failure, not because of one president. I pointed out that the Obama administration was warned about the depletion of masks and supplies after the H1N1 influenza outbreak in 2009. The experts warned the administration that 1.2 billion masks were needed to handle another large outbreak. They did nothing for the next 5 years. So you just can’t put the sole blame on Trump…you all like Obama, so you will give him a pass. That is genuine discourse, Hal…Please try and refute my facts. Look at the Feb 25th debate, look at what was said about the virus. Amy Klobuchar was the only candidate that seemed concerned. But instead of a genuine discourse with me…others, like Steve just want to twist the meanings of my posts, and insult me. Sorry, I’m not going away. I pay my subscription the same as anyone else and should be able to express my opinion. I do it as respectfully as I can and with as much integrity as I can. By the way, thank you for coming to my defense.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            No Doug – you didn’t ask me “3 times”. That information came from actual photos and the first-hand eye-witness accounts of some of the 1,500 members of my Bethel watchdog group. Bethel adherents are very openly taking part in this national tactic by fundamentalist “faith healing” churches, in a deceptive attempt to convince the general public that they actually believe in and support medical science.

            And perhaps I didn’t bother answering because I knew you’d just claim to know more than anyone else. If you don’t happen to see it (or don’t believe it), then it must not be happening.

            In addition, your current efforts to justify Trump ignoring warnings from his own intellegence community beginning in January because those warnings didn’t promote his re-election agenda is just your latest rabid defense of literally everything that raving sociopath has ever said and done.

            It’s also worth noting that Biden is still well ahead of Trump in general polling. With the right running mate he’s got the election in the bag.

  17. Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

    Politifact and other independent fact-checking organizations have found that Fox “News” only tells the truth (or even the partial truth) 22 percent of the time. By comparison CNN (which Trump constantly refers to as “fake news”) is truthful 80 percent of the time.

    For anyone who is interested I’d suggest Googling “Trump parrots Fox lies”, which leads us to a long list from a wide variety of sources of instances in which Fox told blatant – and often harmful – lies.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      I remember when “The Colbert Report” mocked “The O’Reilly Factor” and its disgraced host. Remember how “truthiness” was more important than truth?

      That used to be absurd and humorous. Now it’s running the country.

  18. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    Fired for doing his job in a competent manner in accordance with his duties, instead of in service and fealty to the President.

    • Avatar Gary Tull says:

      “This latest act of reprisal against the Intelligence Community threatens to have a chilling effect against all willing to speak truth to power,” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.)

  19. Avatar christian gardinier says:

    Leadership: Whatever happens, you’re responsible for. If it didn’t happen, you’re responsible.” Trump

    R.V.’s excellent article – Graded On A Curve, March 30, 2020, gave us lots of information to think about. The grade? How about a D for Dereliction of Duty or F for failure?

    Recently, Trump also gave us a lot to think about during his daily campaign commercial – that’s supposedly a White House COVID – 19 Task Force Briefing for the American public – when he admitted he knew all about what was going on… for months. “I’ve always known this is a real, this is a pandemic… long before it was called a pandemic… All you had to do was look at other countries…” No kidding Sherlock. Nope, Trump is not a “stable genius” by any means, but for months the pandemic alarm bells were ringing and red lights flashing… you don’t have to be an Einstein to know we were, and still are for the foreseeable future, in clear and present danger.

    The Washington Post and New York Times reported that U.S. Intelligence officials were warning the president about the potential scale of the COVID – 19 outbreak, as early as January 03, 2020. In fact, around new Years Day, Dr. Redfield (CDC) and his Chinese counterparts, “spent so much time on the phone that his family barely saw him.” And what he heard petrified him. In one bleak conversation between Redfield and George F. Gao, Director, Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention, Gao broke down and literally “burst into tears.” Gao fully understood what was happening to his county, what would soon happen to the USA, and the rest of the world. Alarmed, Redfield immediately notified Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar, who immediately called the National Security Council and the White House, and on January 07, created the C.D.C. COVID – 19 Incident Management System. Next, Azar asked Trump for $2 billion to buy respirator masks and other Personal Protection Equipment (P.P.E.) supplies for the depleted federal stockpile of emergency medical equipment; Trump gave him 500 million then promptly sent 14 TONS of P.P.E. to China.

    Now we’re told that the US is about to completely run out of our national P.P.E. stockpile, and of course Trump accuses nurses of stealing them, they’re “going out the back door…” But in true nepotistic fashion to the oligarchy, Trump’s senior adviser and son-in-law Jared Kushner set us straight, “the notion of the federal stockpile was it’s supposed to be our stockpile, it’s not supposed to be states.” This is the mind-set of the Trump and his oligarchs; the United States belongs to them, not Americans.

    But hey, while the intelligence community and many in Trump’s administration were alarmed, America didn’t worry, after all, the President of the United State told us, “We have it totally under totally under control. You have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero. We’re going to be pretty soon at only five people. And we could be at just one or two people over the next short period of time… This is a flu. This is like a flu… you treat this like a flu… It’s a little like the regular flu… that we have flu shots for… And we’ll essentially have a flu shot for this in a fairly quick manner…” Then he waxed philosophical, elaborating, “You know, my uncle was a great person. He was at MIT. He taught at MIT for, I think, like a record number of years. He was a great super genius. Dr. John Trump. I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it. Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this? ‘ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.” Wow… Dr. Trump, you better have at least a few trillion set aside for malpractice insurance.

    Malpractice is often defined as improper, illegal or negligent professional activity or treatment, committed by a medical practitioner, lawyer, or public official. Negligence is failure to use reasonable care, resulting in damage or injury to another, and Criminal negligence refers to a mental state of disregarding known or obvious risks to human life and safety. Dereliction of Duty is the shameful failure to fulfill one’s obligations. We all know Trump feels no shame or responsibility, but the above would also be defined as impeachable.

    Not that long ago, in another Trump created and fuelled crisis, alarm bells were ringing and red lights flashing when 15 United States Intelligence agencies informed us that Russia worked on helping Trump’s election. Of course Trump, “I know more than the generals” denied this stating, “I have President Putin. He just said it’s not Russia, I will say this: I don’t see any reason why it would be…” Recently when United States Intelligence reported the Russian’s are once again hacking and interfering our 2020 elections, and again for Trump’s benefit, Trump’s response was to berate and then fire Joseph Maguire, the Director of US National Intelligence, proclaiming, “Intelligence agencies never should have allowed this fake news to ‘leak’ into the public.”

    And that’s not all folks, take Climate Change, another alarm bells ringing, red lights flashing imperial – fact, backed by an overwhelming majority in the scientific community. Trump’s response? “It’s a Chinese hoax,” and he is now rapidly gutting as many environmental protections and laws as he can. That’s the Trumpublican way, always was, always will be, cover-up, lie, obfuscate, attack his political enemies and of course the media, “enemy of the people,” spin and construct his trademark web of chaos… that is between campaign rallies and golf games.

    Even if Trump didn’t know about the acute severity of this pandemic, as his apologizers and defenders persistently proclaim, his behaviors and actions regarding a very serious health threat to United States of America would be called incompetence. But he did know! He has admitted it! Did Trump create Covid – 19? No, of course not. But out of incompetence and concern for his re-election and the wealth of the affluent, he committed negligence and the dereliction of duty. After eliminating the White House Pandemic Team, he wasted two months spinning the pandemic in chaos and lies that could have been spent nationalizing manufacturing and distribution of medical supplies and marshaling national stay at home orders. Now Trump tells us upwards of 240,000 Americans could die, millions could get sick and “the stock market is starting to look very good to me!” economy is nose-diving that could result in long lasting psychological and economic depression.

    The above is a perspective of a negligent catastrophic failure, committed by Trump, his administration and his public army of Fox News apologizers. Hindsight is 20/20? Sure, sometimes we can learn from mistakes, just ask Germany. And about that hindsight, attorneys out there give this a try in your next closing argument, “Honestly ladies and gentlemen of the jury, and your honor, looking at with 20/20 hindsight, my client just possibly could have done better…”

    Trump’s Covid – 19 behaviors and activities will go down as a very depressing and disturbing part of Trump’s failed presidency, at the blood and treasure cost of the United States of America. But hey, from Jan. 9 to today, he did play golf at least 6 times and hold 8 campaign rallies… so all is not lost, eh? Where is the Pillow Man?

    • Avatar Gary Tull says:

      Since Pillow Man’s pillows are an obvious dishonest rip for their cost. He’s now quickly re-tooling to make protection masks in time to cinch a trump government contract. That is –between public praise sessions of his lying-sack-of-sheeit orange hero.

  20. Avatar Ed Marek says:

    Hi Candace

    People who DO NOT wear masks are “insensitive asshole”s.

    Even for those who would smear their orange makeup…

    The Opinion piece below describes how we COULD have learned from South Korea, which has had outstanding succeeds in controlling its viral outbreak, in contrast to America, which is the world’s worst failure. No great mystery here. Anyone with half a brain knows that during times of national emergency and nation-wide commodity scarcity the Federal government must act to regulate production and distribution.

    We won a two world wars using federal regulation, production controls and rationing of vehicles, food, gasoline, tires, and other critical scarce commodities.

    We are losing the “war” against COVID-19 because we are led by an administration ignorant of history, as well as economics and biology.

    “How South Korea Solved Its Face Mask Shortage

    Neighborhood pharmacists and government intervention were the secret weapons.

    … the (South Korean) central government decided to intervene in production and distribution…

    …The U.S. government, and state and municipal bodies, should immediately enter into large-scale contracts to produce masks that can be sold at an affordable, standard price.

    These masks (and other personal protective equipment) should go first to health providers and hospitals, then to essential workers in sanitation, warehouses, transportation, food service, child-care centers, and people in prisons and detention facilities. A distribution plan along the lines of those in East Asia could then get masks to the public, perhaps through pharmacies, corner stores and post offices. Some of those masks should also be allocated, free of charge, to people who are homeless or living below the federal poverty level…

    To survive this pandemic, we Americans must stop viewing masks as a sign of disease, and see them instead as a social kindness, a courtesy as common as “please” and “thank you.” As Choi Gwi-ok, a pharmacist in northern Seoul, told me, “Koreans wear masks to protect themselves from infections, but, even more important, to show consideration for others in public.”…”

    • Avatar Candace says:

      Hi Ed, My original comment was referring to (asking a question of others) wearing the used n95 mask I already have (that we’re being asked not to buy, thus appearing to look like an “insensitive ass”) from the Carr fire as opposed to wearing a homemade one instead. That said, I agree with you that coupled with social distancing (plus stay home) we should all wear one unless one has a health problem which inhibits one from doing so. If the health experts “mask ask” is currently voluntary then why not step up and volunteer; same as folks are volunteering to do a number of things to help one another? Such a simple and doable ask. Don’t have a mask? Don’t know how to or can’t make one? A bandana, scarf, whatever you have on hand is better than nothing. There are numerous “how to” videos online. There are likely also local groups you could contact (Redding Fashion Alliance) that could guide you in the making of one or steer you to where you might find one. As I mentioned before, we’re not being asked to remove a limb. Feeling helpless and want to do something to help? Volunteer to wear a mask; that’s you helping. For those already doing so, THANK YOU! For those that weren’t doing so but will start now, THANK YOU!

  21. Avatar Common Sense says:

    With comments like this and the Propaganda that has come out of Faux News over the years….I see them losing tens of millions or perhaps hundreds of Millions when the all the Lawsuits in 2-3 years are settled,closed or lost.It wouldn’t shock me to start seeing Ads soon saying something like, have you been a fox news watcher? Do you know someone that has died of the Corona Virus? Did you lose a loved one that regularly watched fox news? Call now, you might have compensation coming! Call now 1-all-iga-torr

    >>>Discrediting a Scientific Expert….keeping the lies going……it will have a Consequence.<<<

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Did you even read the story you linked? Judging by your comment, I doubt you did.
      “…>Discrediting a Scientific Expert….keeping the lies going……it will have a Consequence.

      Carlson was not discrediting Dr Fauci. He pointed out that he has been wrong before, as the example he gave. Where the doctor said in a January interview about the virus , “…”is not a major threat to the people of the United States and this is not something that the citizens of the United States right now should be worried about.” Carlson wasn’t discrediting the doctor, he was saying that he isn’t always right and there are other factors to look at. The economy being one of them, which is a valid message. By the way, it was Tucker Carlson that was one of the first in the media to speak about the virus becoming a serious threat. Way before MSNBC and CNN couldn’t be bothered to gin up a question about it on the debates. He rang the alarm bell way before Morning Joe and Rachel Maddow. Was that propaganda coming out of Fox? Here, CS. Look at this monologue from Tucker Carlson on Feb 25th and see if you dispute his comments

  22. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Yee Haw! Let’s head to beach and spread some Virus! You just can’t fix Stupid. Might as well hit the church on the way home and celebrate with the 900 other Science Denying folks!

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      Interesting that many of the beach resort towns are responding: “Not only no, but HELL no.”

      Good for them. If you’re a community in a state with a mini-Trump governor, you’re clearly on your own.

  23. Avatar Gary Tull says:

    This morning’s AP summary of how preparation time of nearly two months was squandered.

  24. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    Ok…you won, I’m out of here. This is my last post. You can start celebrating now. I submitted an email cancelling my subscription to ANC. Letting Bruce be the one remaining conservative on these pages. I may come back after the election just to give you an ‘I told you so’, but probably not. This is what you want…one voice and one voice only. Revel in your hate for the president, ignore facts and truths, have a ball.

    I was reminded of my days in the Air Force in Loring AFB in northern Maine. We would spend a week on nuclear alert with the B-52 bombers and us, the air refueling tankers, cocked and ready to launch at a moments notice. With a lot of spare time on our hands during the 7 days we were on Alert, , the flight crews would gather in a hallway that had a number of couches and chairs, we called it the ‘Bus Stop’. There would be at anytime of the day and night anywhere between 10-20 of us sitting around just shooting the bull. We would talk about every subject imaginable… politics, sports, girls, airplanes, you name it. All of us were smart and educated coming from all walks of life and political persuasions. That was one of the places where I honed my listening and debating skills. The thing was, we were all respectful and eager to learn and listen. I changed many of my more conservative views after some of these debates where I was convinced otherwise. I was hoping that ANC would emulate that level of discourse, sadly it was not to be. With the continual twisting of my words, the insults…well, life is too short. I’m sure I can find a better outlet for my political discussions that a close minded atmosphere like what I have been exposed to here. It’s a shame, my guess is that if met in person..Candace and I would probably get along very well, same with Steve and RV. But in the anonymous world we live in…it’s too easy to bash and insult someone for having an opposing view. That’s a shame. I mentioned before that when I was in college, I went out of my way to attend lectures from far left organizations so I could learn from others…which is what college is for. I went and listened to Angela Davis speak about Communism (Google her) , I went and listened to members of the SLA speak and many other left wing speakers and groups. That is what you did back then. Not so much there days.

    So carry on without me…have fun, bash the president all you want. Ignore any other perspective out there. I’ll just leave you with this, if you think the response to this virus would have been any different with a President Clinton, or a President Biden…you are delusional. Our government sucks at emergencies like this. Doesn’t matter which party is in power or who the president is. The government will always be sluggish in responding. I encourage you to dig deep into the timeline and look at what was really happening in January and February. Good luck to you all, be safe and Adios.

    • Doug, I derive no joy from seeing you go, and, in fact, I’m sad to see you leave. I thank you for the time you’ve been here, and for your past support of ANC.

      I blame myself for not doing a better job of intervening when comments turned personal.

      I hope you will continue to read ANC, and one day, when you feel up to it, you’ll put your toe back in the water and return to the comments section, but I understand why, for now, you’d want to step away.

      I like your description of your Bus Stop, and wish that it were possible for us to all communicate that way, despite our differences. But we humans are complicated creatures, with different styles, beliefs and backgrounds. These pandemic times are hot and anxious and uncertain, and people are scared and weary, and emotions are frayed. I’m not making excuses, but saying I understand how dialogue could become so heated, and feelings become so hurt, and people end up wounded.

      I would bet that it’s a rare person on this site who wouldn’t wish you well.

      Stay safe, Doug. Hopefully we’ll see you back again one day soon. You’re welcome any time.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        Doni — I’m sorry that Doug decided to leave ANC. I was not trying to run him off. I don’t like echo chambers—I was 100% sincere about missing Tim. But I was sick and tired of chasing my tail and going nowhere, so I decided to take a knee. I *needed* to take a knee.

        I was content to let Doug respond my post—have the last word—and go on doing his thing…with others. Hal was right to suggest I was losing my shit. When a nice guy like Hal calls you out, you know it’s time to step back and consider the teachings of your forefathers.

        In debate, endless knee-jerk contrarianism and repetition elicits the same pointless, artless garbage, and I decided to break that cycle between two of us for my own good.

        I won’t apologize for Doug’s decision, which belongs to him alone. I’m the only one who said today he’s checking out of conversing with Doug—the only reason for him to quit now is if driving me nuts was his single joy here. If that’s the case, he owns it. Not me.

        • I hear you, Steve, and I sincerely believe you when you say you weren’t trying to run him off. You’re right that he, or anyone, owns their decision to depart the site.

          I often marvel at the stamina exhibited by the core group of Convo Cafers who debate one another.

          I am with Linda, that I have learned a lot from reading this section. A lot of fur flies, and there are plenty of barbs, but I also know that it’s a valuable place of intelligent discourse that presents great information from some of the most brilliant people I know.

          Of course, it’s not for the faint of heart. Personally I’m too thin-skinned to wade in most days, but I lurk and read from the sidelines, which is what a lot of ANC readers do.

          One unfortunate part about when someone goes away mad/sad is that although they may not have known it – because so few people expressed matching opinions — but there may have been many people who agreed with the dearly departeds’ opinions, but who didn’t speak up. We know that as with most online publications, a very small percentage of readers actually comment, which only makes you brave souls even more rare and wonderful to have the courage to speak your mind.

          I’ve often said that I see ANC as a family. We have the quiet people who come here to read, and the verbose people who like to debate (and are good at it, like you), we have people on the left and people on the right and people in the middle. We have the peacemakers (hello, Hal), and we all gather here to learn more and feel a connection.

          Even the best families have disagreements, and ANC is no different. I appreciate you all.

      • Avatar Candace says:

        “Bus Stop” respect for different viewpoints needs to be a two-way street. In this case, it was not. Responsibility for dialogue lies with each individual. The “I can dish it out (numerous times) BUT…” seems to be in play here. While I don’t like the insipid personal name calling that was going on, in this one instance I refuse to feel chastised by this self-professed “never to be humbled” person taking his toys and going home. As far as Bruce being the lone conservative left on this forum, I doubt it but if that’s true I’ll take it! While Bruce and I might differ on many subjects he does not lecture nor talk down to people. Great combination in my book.

        • Candace, I agree with you that Bruce is not the lone conservative voice on this site, although he may be one of the few who expresses himself in the comments section. And I like what Steve says, about not wanting to be in an echo chamber.

          And you are also correct that that respectful bus stop needs to run both ways. Well said.

    • Avatar Linda Cooper says:

      Wow! That was weird. I was composing my comment while Doug, you were cancelling your subscription.

    • Hal Johnson Hal Johnson says:

      Doug, stay well.

  25. Avatar Linda Cooper says:

    Hal Johnson. I’ve tried to cool down after reading your comment to Steve Towers. I felt like it was critical. There is no “reply” option, so I’m just saying it here. Obviously you two know each other well, and Towers has decided to have Doug Cook not play him like a “hooked trout.” Well, I remain a hooked trout, and without being especially mindful, I have this to say about that:

    There is something to be said about contrast. By this I mean I learned so much regarding Steve Tower’s replies and comments. I ignored Cook, and simply learned from Towers. I grew. I understood. I learned. I will miss that so much. Towers generously took the time to research his comments. As does RV. Peas in a pod?

    Very obviously, Towers doesn’t need my defense. Nor would he want it. Yet, here I am. I recognize that it doesn’t play well to call names. And yet, there are times to call a spade a spade. I think. When and if A news Cafe is taken over by right-wingers, I’m not in. Towers balanced that aspect. I too have an archive of links I could post for Cook. But really, he doesn’t listen. I don’t want to exhaust mySelf. And yet, Towers did that. He provided research. So, seriously, I think Towers gets a pass. For trying. Are you trying? I would think not, because you haven’t been hooked. Yeah, research, and providing intelligent comments is exhausting.

    • Hal Johnson Hal Johnson says:

      Linda, your objections to my savage remarks hurled toward Dr. Towers have been noted.

    • Avatar Candace says:

      Linda, I personally didn’t find Hal’s comments objectionable. I also think Steve is intelligent but I don’t think he’s by any means the only intelligent person commenting on this site, including Doug, and I’ll chance a guess that Steve agrees with my assessment. My humble opinion anyway?

      • Avatar Linda Cooper says:

        Candace, full disclosure, and I think Hal gets it. I was key boarding while drinking. Okay? Tomorrow, I’m going to wake up and announce, “yesterday ended last night.”

        • Hal Johnson Hal Johnson says:

          Har! Linda, when we get past all of this, will you come out and listen to me sing sometime? I sing better when people drink.

          • Avatar Linda Cooper says:

            Hal, with great pleasure I will love to come listen to you sing, while I drink. My son-in-law is in an Irish music band called Culann’s Hounds.” He shares your same observation, ha.

      • Hal Johnson Hal Johnson says:

        Linda Cooper, thanks for letting me know about your brother-in-law’s band. I really enjoyed listening to the first song I found by them on YouTube.

  26. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    The worst president. Ever.

    Authored by a Republican.

  27. Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

    WOW, I guess I shouldn’t tune out the endless chatter on the comment section, I miss so much.
    I’m the lone conservative left.
    I would say I am the lone conservative who has written and had published LTTEs on Anews, except I can’t forget James Montgomery who’s high school picture decorates our hall wall.
    Oh, and on ABC News tonight they announced that 75% of those in NYC that contracted COVI have survived. They also stated NYC is the canary in the coal mine for the rest of the nation.
    Is the rest of the nation prepared?
    While non essential workers are told to stay home and will receive unemployment plus an extra $500 a week why are essential workers, truck drivers, healthcare workers, postal workers, national guard, not receiving $500 extra a week in hazard pay. Military in combat zones received hazard pay and make no mistake about it essential workers are putting their lives on the line today.
    I will not add to the streaming of endless chatter in the comment section because I have been told that I doubt science and facts and need to open my g**damn eyes. Why post more when once is enough?
    I am like the skunk that snuck in through the doggie door.

    • Avatar Linda Cooper says:

      Bruce, I too will chime in on the yes, for hazard pay.
      I’m not prepared to be analytical about this issue, however, the fairness issue gets to me. You have pointed out the one area that should be addressed, and it seems to me this could be implemented readily.

  28. Avatar Candace says:

    Bruce, I whole-heartedly agree with you regarding hazard pay.

  29. Avatar Candace says:

    Linda, ok, got ya. Take good care.

  30. Hal Johnson Hal Johnson says:

    Bruce, I agree with you on the hazard pay too.

    I haven’t confirmed this, but I’ve been told that Dutch Brothers employees have been given a $3 per hour raise, and showing up to work is strictly voluntary.

  31. Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

    The USPS workers in NYC have actually started a push for hazard pay, that’s where I got the idea.

    • Avatar Linda Cooper says:

      Bruce, I’m starting to ask others who reply on my “friends” FB pages how they are “doing” in their area. One man in New York commented in detail. It’s interesting to get the first hand information. And also awful. I have no idea why I am posting this.

  32. Avatar Linda Cooper says:

    My comment here is a jump in the lake so to speak. And I’m responding to another comment from another article. To paraphrase, the comment was made, “is focusing on Trumps failures a useful path forward?” My initial response to that is, ask the Jewish population. Ask my Armenian grandmother. While I understand the sentiment (I think), I believe it’s always critical to question authority. Especially in these times. I recall after 911, and the work environment. Everybody was fearful of questioning President Bush, and his decision to go to war. And look how that worked out. Frankly, I’ve been surprised at the restraint the press has shown towards Trump. I couldn’t do their job. And in some instances, I’ve been disappointed with the press, who either pass on lies, or are fearful of a Trump-lashing. Which is why we have A News Cafe, with people who question on board. Which is we are still, as Americans, wanting to question, and exchange opinions. To not do otherwise, is cult-like thinking. And my opinion is that there is a lot of that going around. I am appreciative for this forum. This exchange of all opinions.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      I understand the sentiment, “is focusing on Trump’s failures a useful path forward.” That can degenerate into wallowing in negativity when there are positive things that can be accomplished. I think it would be fine to allow Trump to pay the price for his failures later down the road if it were the case that he halted his destructive disinformation campaign two weeks ago. But it lives on, and it has to be countered—every damned day.

  33. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    If the employer is taking a cut of some kind of excise charge they’re passing on to customers, possibly some gouging. If the employer is just paying employees $3 more per hour and not passing it on with higher prices, it’s actually costing them more than the $3, with additional payroll tax included.

  34. Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

    Linda Cooper, getting first hand knowledge from people who are foot on the ground is often more informative than the news. My daughter works at a hospital here in Phoenix and my son is CDL delivering food to Walmarts, they both offer insightful info. My daughter now is required to wear a mask at work and her temp is taken everyday, if it is too high she will be sent home. My son was issued a letter stating he is an essential employee, his employer is CR England and they deliver nationwide so the company was being preemptive.
    And the Phoenix TV stations are all, including FOX, stick it in the face of officials to find out news and they call themselves investigators as they have gone beyond just reporting the news to asking why, how, and who.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      Bruce said: “… as they have gone beyond just reporting the news to asking why, how, and who.”

      Good, simple, comprehensive reporting is often characterized as: who, what, when, where, why? I think what you’re characterizing as “beyond the news” is exactly what the news is supposed to be.

      At the end of each newscast decades ago, Walter Cronkite and his fellow anchors would close with a few minutes of opinion. The current cancer of cable TV news is this: That few minutes of opinion has become the main show on the cable networks. From what I’ve seen, the reporters asking Trump tough questions annoy him are just doing their jobs.

      • Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

        I am not interested in what the national news says about Trump. In this regard I share Doug Cook’s disdain for the constant anti Trump obssesionists that just report the highlights we all see anyway, no need to post a monolog of comments on the subject. I am interested in what my local officials are doing and our local news, which I was referring to, do a good job and report facts, as much as they can, and withhold the opinions for the opinion page.

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          Bruce — I think that’s more a matter of personal taste than necessity. And that’s not to denigrate your preference. To borrow someone else’s analogy: Some need to help the Jews escape, and some need to fight the NAZI’s. Neither emphasis is wrong.

          I do envy your ability to focus on helping rather than fighting. I mean that with 100% sincerity and admiration.

          • Avatar Gary Tull says:

            National news journalists and reporters are nearly all we have at the moment in striving to keep the public informed of this Trump administration’s questionable behavior and dealings. (real news) Now is when we should all be particularly concerned of trump’s handling of TWO TRILLION in pandemic relief funds — right after he systematically fired anyone in position to lend oversight. Remember we ARE talking about a lying Sack of Sh– con-man. A swindler. Remember Trump University? Well that DOES concern many of us.

            So Bruce, speaking of opinion — ya say you are not interested in what national news reporters are saying about Trump. Okay fine. That is your prerogative. Merely your opinion. However I hope no one is persuaded by such an opinion. BTW- The lion’s share of so-called “hoaxes and fake news” inevitably turn out not to be a hoax or fake at all. Let’s see what the real Mueller Report looks like after Barr’s black redactions have been lifted for example.

        • Avatar christian gardinier says:

          Bruce. Local news is very important. However, if totalitarian ism or facism is established as many in this country are worried about regarding The actions and behaviors of Trump, his administration and his see no evil supporters, the news system, both local and national, will be suppressed, censored, rewritten and controlled by the facist… As in FOX news; look at the liying Trump apologist that Trump just put in the position of Press Secretary. It’s not only pathetic but it’s alarming. Suppression and manipulation of the press has been the downfall of many a nation, That’s why freedom of the press is explicitly written into the United States Constitution.. Russia and Trump’s buddy Putin, are very good examples of a totalitarianism controlled press. If people don’t speak truth to power, an important power and duty of the press, then we’re done for, at national, state and local levels. What you will see locally will then be dependent on the edicts of the totalitarian.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Trump is now purging inspectors general from the government and replacing them with boot-lickers. Inspectors general are the people charged with overseeing the lawful spending of funds allocated by Congress. The latest head to roll was Glenn Fine, the guy who was supposed to head up the Pandemic Response Accountability Committee charged with independent oversight of the $2 trillion COVID-19 stimulus package.

            What’s the first thing you’d do if you were Trump and wanted to get your fingers into that $2 trillion pie? That’s right—shit-can the guy in charge of independent oversight of the pie’s allocation, and replace him with one of your loyal yes-men.

  35. Avatar Common Sense says:

    I must say that Doug lasted a lot longer than I thought he would of. And thank you for your Service Doug. It must have been extremely tiring to continue to unabashedly defend what we have in office. The energy, the drain, to keep trying to make the orange guy what he is not. I can’t imagine how that took a toll.

    The Truth Always finds it way to the light of day…..some times….it takes awhile……but Truth always prevails. When the full Mueller Report comes out for all to see it will be really interesting. When the charges are brought by the new AG after election time….that should be interesting…..when he is tried and Convicted and Sent to Prison…..that will be another first.

    In the meantime we get to see what having a 5150 with zero leadership skills is doing to our great Country….we get to watch more and more die……

    Let us remember for a Moment…..and this is one thing that not even Doug could defend…..the President has some very bad Pathologies …..Malignant Narcissist, Serial Liar and at least one more if not two. You can’t Fix Personality Defects…. so with that in mind….now that we all KNOW this……who will you vote for in 2020? Had enough? or are you ready to double down?

    Even Navarro told him it was going to be a real problem!

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      My eyes watered up plenty when I heard the news. He’d been on a ventilator for what seems like a week, and I’d assumed if he was hanging on that long he must be making progress, despite his health issues.

      So many amazing songs that were rich stories, both funny and sad. I can imagine myself standing on Bob Dylan’s coffee table in my boots and saying to him, “Like a Rolling Stone” is a great song, but “Angel from Montgomery” is the best song ever written by an American songwriter.

    • Avatar Anne Thrope says:

      Prine was a great songwriter, but 2/3 of Covid patients put on a ventilator are dead inside a month and the majority that survive have greatly diminished lung & organ function which makes me wonder why we are making such a big fuss about suspending freedom to acquire more.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        Tim 🙂 — Yeah, going on a ventilator with COVID-19 is about as effective as getting pushed out to sea on an ice flow. The primary gain is that you don’t die immediately.

        I’m a little thick, so I’ll need an explanation of how the desire for more respirators is causing a suspension of freedom. Are the CDC brownshirts knocking on doors and confiscating Dyson vacuums for retrofitting?

        • Avatar Linda Cooper says:

          Alias? Oh, never mind.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            I don’t know. Maybe his twin sister or soul sister or something. There sure are some welcomed (for me) similarities.

        • Avatar Jimmy Wilson says:

          With a ventilator you have a 20% chance of living. Without one when needed, the death rate is 100%. 1/5 less deaths by ventilating, rather than 100% by doing nothing. You do the math

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            The math isn’t that simple. It’s easy to validate the % of people who go on ventilators and survive. It’s impossible to validate the % of people who died because they didn’t get a ventilator “when needed.” That’s because “when needed” is a judgement call. Many who go on respirators are already lost. The ventilator only gives them some extra days in a drug-induced coma—it’s not obvious that’s “needed.” As Italy proved, some of the elderly who “need” ventilators and don’t get them because of shortage-induced triage end up living.

            Certainly if someone you care about is on the verge of respiratory arrest and there’s a 33% (or even 20%) chance a ventilator will keep them alive, you’ll want to take that chance.

      • Avatar Jeff says:

        I must say, this is the first time I have shed a tear over the passing of an artist.

        That being said it is revealing that he had just released a song on his most recent album about going to heaven. One of the lyrics in that song he credits to his father; “Son when you’re dead you’re just a dead P—–head” Saw him in concert in October and my wife got to meet him in the hotel the next day.

      • Avatar candace says:

        So here’s a thought. Someone reading or posting here on ANC could very well have a loved one hooked up to a ventilator, fighting for their life right this very minute. Maybe we could curb the clever one-liners and callous “what’s the big deal about respirators” talk until this is over. Until then maybe STFU and have some compassion? Ya, I’m outta here too. Take care everyone.

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          Sorry, Candace. “Open Conversation” is free-wheeling, but I don’t think any of us are trying to be purposefully hurtful. Some of us deal with the current crisis with hard honesty and gallows humor. It’s good to be reminded that the glibness can go too far, because a lot of people’s nerves are frayed.

    • Avatar Anne Thrope says:

      Perhaps if people understood how terrible their expected outcomes were they would decide to die with dignity rather than spend 1/4 million dollars raging against the dying of the light on round the clock ventilation hoping to return home with severe heart, lung, and kidney issues but probably dying alone in a strange hospital room after a few extra days in a semi-conscious drug-fueled haze.

      The freedom issue is the suspension of civil liberties in hopes of “flattening the curve.” Except the experts didn’t tell you that flattening the curve doesn’t actually save lives, it just delays and changes the shape of the peak – the lives lost integral is the same unless treatments dramatically improve. But since flattening the curve won’t delay the peak long enough to get new drugs or a vaccine approved, you’re mainly hoping to increase hospital capacity & ventilator supply.

      And it turns out that doesn’t save very many lives afterall. We’re not only destroying 80,000 lifetimes each week of quarantining 330 million Americans, we have declared a public nuisance Palm Sunday services for 2 dozen worshippers physically distanced throughout a cathedral while declaring essential the production of sitcoms and pornography, to say nothing of liquor and recreational marijuana stores.

      Under the optimistic scenario, we improve treatment protocols enough to possibly save 1/2 million lives in exchange for more than 5 trillion dollars in lost income/productivity and increased debt. So optimistically we are hoping to spend well over 10 million dollars on each life we save – lives that statistically are advanced in age and have 3 or more comorbidities. That, on top of the lost liberties, is a terrible trade.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        I agree with you in part. If it looks like I’m headed toward a ventilator, I’ve already told my wife that I might want to opt out rather than likely die in isolation, drugged into semi-consciousness.

        Not all of us see each week of quarantine as a week of destroyed lifetime experience. Many, in fact, view it as a temporary reprieve from the drudgery of the day-to-day grind, and are making the best of it.

        Your “flattening the curve” math is accurate as far as the curves are generally modeled, but overly simplistic. There may be advantages to flattening beyond reducing the degree to which hospitals are overwhelmed. For example, coronaviruses are highly seasonal—outbreaks tend to crash during summer and well into the fall for various reasons. So flattening the curve until summer arrives may provide the great benefit of buying much-needed time, and save lives in the process.

        And with every post, I’m more convinced that you’ve been with us before.

  36. Joanne Snyder Joanne Snyder says:

    Oh Gary, this is truly sad news about John Prine. He is one of my heroes. He was an amazing song writer. So many of his pieces have been covered by other artists as well. “Paradise” and “Angel from Montgomery” are two of my favorite Prine songs.

  37. Avatar Gary Tull says:

    The challenging odds of surviving advanced coronavirus on a ventilator is a hard road to go- (no pun intended). We were fearful of the outcome.

    Rest in peace, John Prine. You have given original inspiration to Americana Folk.

  38. Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

    The big issue on the National scene that I see is, now that Biden has become the presumed presidential candidate of a now united Democratic party, is who will be his VP choice. That it will be a woman he has announced a long time ago and there are several capable names on the list, 11 on the ones I have seen. One not on the list is Hillary Clinton though she seems to be popping up in the news in a never say never interviews.
    Biden brings the Black vote automatically and his VP choice will be more about who will bring voters, especially Sanders voters, to the polls. It needs to be a strong candidate because Biden himself seems to have “senior” moments of disconnect at times. Harris has been mentioned many times but California is not a battleground state. It will more likely be someone from the Midwest battleground states. Former President Obama has not made a commitment and I believe that will weigh on many voters minds as despite the rhetoric Obama remains one of the most popular recent presidents.
    The way White Evangelists from Sandpoint, Idaho led by Ammon Bundy to Florida’s pastors are defying the ban on large gatherings due to the “Democratic Hoax” that infringes on their 2nd Amendment rights, half will be dead by November.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      I said Biden-Warren on the first day of last month’s “Open Conversation.” She’s not as far left as Bernie, but she’s close. Where Biden is a baby-kissing politician, Warren is an academic policy wonk. Trump and Pence will hit her with the whole “Pocahontas” thing because sewer-dwelling is what Trump understands, but I think she’ll have her retorts and counter-attacks in order. Lastly, Biden and Warren are good friends. The only lacking is that she’s not from an upper midwest swing state, but Biden has already said he can win those states by himself.

      I wouldn’t bet a large amount of money on Warren, but since it was my original call, I’ll stand pat.

      • Avatar Gary Tull says:

        As for those under this roof, we would happily embrace and support a Biden-Warren ticket.

      • My only consolation to losing Bernie would be if Biden chose Warren. (And then, well, who knows how things might go with Biden in the White House. It would be nice to have Warren next in line.)

        As long as I’m dreaming, maybe Biden could even make Sanders his healthcare czar, something I doubt Biden would have ever considered prior to this pandemic. But everything’s different now, and if the COVID-19 crisis doesn’t highlight our country’s healthcare deficits, I don’t know what would.

        • Avatar Linda Cooper says:

          Gosh, I hope you might be able to have some consolation if Biden wins. The choice isn’t between Biden and Trump. It’s between another Ruth Bader Ginsberg and another Brett Kavanaugh. It’s between a functioning pandemic response team and Jared Kushner. It’s between LGBTQ rights and their suppression. It’s between voter enfranchisement and voter disenfranchisement. It’s between a healthy environment and pollution. It’s between support for our democratic allies and support for dictators. It’s between human rights and injustice. It’s between people and pipelines. It’s between some healthcare for most and no healthcare for even more. For me, I think Biden would be capable of delivering some of this. And from the most recent interview I saw with Bernie, he seemed extremely clear with what is at stake.

          • Avatar christian gardinier says:

            Sanders is backing Biden, its a done deal. Cooper nails it. The choice is between tyranny, open and flat out corporatism, and a path towards dictatorship if we let Trump and his administration continue to shred the constitution of the United States what was the power of the unitary executive.

      • Avatar Kathryn McDonald says:

        I’d go with Warren if she weren’t from a state with a Republican governor who would appoint her replacement. We can’t afford to lose a Democratic senator if we hope to take back the Senate from the Republican lickspittles.

        • Avatar Linda Cooper says:

          Point taken, Kathryn McDonald! This is a concern I share with you.

        • Avatar Gary Tull says:

          Kathryn, you brought out an important consideration.
          Warren would make a dynamite VP but the thought of her Senate seat going to a Republican is excruciating.

    • Avatar Anne Thrope says:

      I bet it isn’t Tara Reade!

  39. Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

    Maybe someone can explain. About a week ago a video posted from a diet doctor explaining COVI was posted on here. There were half a dozen comments posted favorably, I posted that at 35 minutes the video was too long and I didn’t watch it all. Later I went back to watch more of the video but it had disappeared. What happened?

  40. Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

    Now I see why everybody is posting you tube videos, what else is there to do at 3AM? Though I watch Riverdance, Celtic Thunder and some old Eagles videos, much better than politics.

  41. Avatar Gary Tull says:

    If given a chance to see Todd Snider’s touching Easter Sunday tribute to John Prine, don’t miss it.

  42. Avatar Chris Solberg says:

    So sad…..

    Against CDC Recommendations homeless camp at end of Parkview being police red tagged and will be raided.. Redding California Homeless Need Your Help !

  43. Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

    My daughter works at St Joseph Hospital in Phoenix. To aid their staff the hospital has added a popup grocery store where employees can get staples like milk, eggs, bread, toilet paper so they don’t have to stop at local grocery stores on there way home. Other hospitals are looking at this option as well.

  44. Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

    Thank you President Trump, my stimulus check has been deposited. And I am not even a Republican.

  45. Avatar Karen Bennett says:

    Wondering where I can find James Montgomery’s 2nd “Had Coronavirus” article about the Stanford testing? I can find the original one but not the second. Thanks

  46. Avatar Anita Lynn Brady says:

    WHERE ARE THE REPUBLICANS THAT KNOW THIS ISN’T TRUE? Hiding in the closet because they do not want to be the subject of a nasty tweet.

    “The president of the United States calls the shots,” Trump said. “They can’t do anything without the approval of the president of the United States.”

    Trump said there were “numerous provisions” in the Constitution that give him that power, but he didn’t name any.

    “When somebody’s the president of the United States, the authority is total,” he said.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      “I’m Yertle the Turtle
      Oh marvelous me!
      For I am ruler
      Of all that I see!”
      —Yertle the Turtle, before Mack at the bottom burped

  47. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    Brutal critique of Trump’s elevation of Jared and Ivanka to positions of national and international responsibility based on histories of having absolutely no skills or accomplishments.

  48. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    China is to blame.
    Europe is to blame.
    Illegal immigrants are to blame.
    The experts are to blame.
    The Democrats are to blame.
    CDC bureaucrats are to blame.
    The fake news media are to blame.
    Obama is to blame.
    Pelosi is to blame.
    The governors are to blame.
    The mayors are to blame.
    WHO is to blame.

    I am 100% without blame—everything I’ve done has been perfect. Perfect.

    The president of the United States calls the shots. When somebody’s the president of the United States, the authority is total.”

    You want decisive action from me? Here it is: Breaking with over 2 centuries of protocol meant to ensure that U.S. Treasury payments aren’t politicized, my name—President Donald J. Trump—will be on the stimulus checks. I made that shit happen.

  49. Avatar Gary Tull says:

    He was fine telling governors that he took “no responsibility” in finding them enough ventilators — that they had to find what they needed on their own.
    He pit governors against other governors and (even) against the US government in a bidding war for lifesaving equipment.
    He sent out incomplete test kits that lacked essential swabs and testing fluids.
    He sent out broken ventilators. California took 700 ventilators to be repaired and later returned them to be used by other states.
    He made all of the governors kiss his ring and say nice things about his efforts at the start of a phone call, where governors had to beg for help getting equipment. Then, he used their nice words in a PR video to his base of voters!

    He is clearly despicable .

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      I made it about 60 seconds into the PR video before throwing up in my mouth and turning it off. I read that after, Trump said the video could have gone on indefinitely with the singing of his praises, but he told his people to keep it shorter.

      What a damaged, malfunctioning, revolting human being.

  50. Hal Johnson Hal Johnson says:

    While burning brush a couple of days ago, I managed to singe my facial hair. Afterward, I combed out the burnt ends and found that my beard seemed uniformly about a quarter of an inch shorter. I mean, I doubt I could have trimmed it that evenly with tools and painstaking care.

    Still, I cannot recommend using a pile of burning brush as a beard-trimming tool.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      Nice. I just buzzed my beard down to stubble and started over from there. About ready to try that on my dome, too.

  51. Avatar Common Sense says:

    I can see why Doug left now. We are at the point in the Drama now with the Orange 5150 that when he threatens to give some Ventilators to other Countries and RUSSIA you would look like a Complete Fool to defend that.

    A Very Mentally Sick Man/Child is leading this Country Down the Drain. In Way over his Head….dealing with a Serious Pathology or two…..or three……

    A Kremlin Puppet…….yep….I have been saying that for about 2.5 years now…….more will die……and where are all the REPUBLICANS? What are they Doing about it?….N-O-T-H-I-N-G……..hiding in the closest to escape this Maniac’s Rath!

    Barely a Ding left on the Trumptanic Ship that has been taking on water for years now….. D dddd

  52. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    Shasta College Horticulture Department Veggie Starts at Providence International

    As of today (Thursday 16-Apr-20), Providence International still has about 30 varieties of tomatoes and numerous other veggie starts for sale. The tomatoes include both standard and heirloom varieties. These are the plants that PI volunteered to sell for Shasta College after the college’s annual spring sale was cancelled.

    You order online and they call you to schedule a pickup. Most plants are $4.00.

  53. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Thanks for Sharing Steve! It’s amazing that approx 40% are sold out already out of the 10,000 they picked up? I didn’t know we had the many Voracious Gardeners in our Neck of the Woods!

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      I think they parted out some of the plants to two other suppliers—one in Siskiyou County for sure—so they may not have had 10,000 plants. But yeah, I was surprised that the supply went so fast. McConnell Arboretum was selling veggie starts, too (where I got most of mine), and I haven’t heard that they all went overnight.

      • Avatar Anita Lynn Brady says:

        We called Wyntour Nursery Monday morning to see how their stock was, and they said they had just gotten a shipment of 500 flats. My husband went down there asap. Got almost everything we need for the season, along with some seed packets.

        We felt good that we were supporting a local business.

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          I bought maybe a third of the starts I have in my boxes at Wyntour, plus all the seeds. Did you see any shishito peppers? I can’t find them anywhere.

          • Funny you should mention shishito peppers, because one of Joe’s specialties is roasted shishito peppers tossed with sesame oil and sesame seeds, with miso and sesame oil and sour cream dip. Delicious! So, I don’t know if it would work, but this week, we removed seeds from a few before roasting them and are trying to grow them in a wet paper towel on the window sill. Possible?

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            I’ve never tried the wet paper towel method. I’ve got a shishito seeds planted in a dozen paper chain pots—two per pot, for buffer. The seed package warned 10 days until emergence, but with time standing still it already feels like three weeks, and I’m starting to sense doom and failure to the extent that I’m eyeballing the tabula rasa in the bed reserved for them and thinking, what else could I put there?

            Nothing’s as good in the BBQ veggie basket as shishitos tossed in oil. I’d shank a mofo for six shishito starters right now.

          • Avatar Gary Tull says:

            I’ve successfully brought seeds to germination between layers of damp paper towels many times around this time of the year – while living in a lower latitude region. However I don’t see why that method shouldn’t work well (on a sunny window sill facing south) up in the far-north reaches of the Sacramento valley. Just keep the PT layers damp and don’t allow the direct sun to get too hot and dry them out.

            One thought that could prove helpful: the moon is waning right now.
            Seeds tend to have higher success percentage when they are started while the moon begins waxing. That will be on the 24th.

  54. Avatar Common Sense says:

    It will go down in History as the Most Corrupt Administration in the History of America!

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      I’ll be shocked—SHOCKED!—if it turns out the owners of the company are buddies of Slime Jr.

      Have you seen the map showing the percentages of small business loan approvals by state under the stimulus program? Basically, you’re up to 3x more likely to get a loan if you’re from a red state. California’s approval rate was less than 20%. I’ll bet if you did a deeper dive that 20% would lean heavily toward GOP loyalists.

      • Avatar Common Sense says:

        Yep, you will be about as shocked as I will if it ever comes out of the darkness and is exposed. I call it a time to pay back those loyal Donors and Sycophants.

        Many of the C-19 resources/equip went to his “Friendly” states and the rest suffered.

        It’s the Pathology Steve, but then you knew that already. You are friend or Foe, For or Against, I know this way too well after a couple experiences with this Pathology in the relationship dept.

    • Avatar Gary Tull says:

      This is exactly why Official Independent Oversight is imperative. He and his appointed team members cannot and should not be trusted with exclusively handling TWO TRILLION without it.

      He is now undoubtedly trying to launder millions (to benefit himself) through phony contracts.

      Let’s see if Congress does anything about it.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        Trump has been screwing campaign donors since he became the GOP nominee prior to last election. First by jacking up the rent for his campaign offices—housed at his properties—to 4x the market rate. Since then, by holding a string of ongoing fundraisers at his facilities and again gouging his campaign in the extreme for the costs to host the events. And now it’s been disclosed that in order to dodge federal campaign disclosure laws, he’s having his stooge campaign manager/money launderer pay himself bonuses and then cut personal checks to the wives and girlfriends of Trump’s sons on the order of hundreds of thousands of dollars, so far.

        Trump’s campaign organization is every inch the money-laundering grift that his non-profit and university were. His duped followers give him money to get him re-elected, and he’s seeing to it that he stuffs as much as possible into his own pockets.

        “It is morally wrong to allow a sucker to keep his money.” —W.C. Fields (but could easily have been Der Pumpkinführer referring to his MAGA-hat-wearing Trump chumps)

        • Avatar Gary Tull says:

          News of such weasel type behavior break right along yet we barely hear field crickets from the GOP. They stay silent like they’ve all lost their hearing.

          He’s a colossal parasite to all, including knucklehead MEGA hat wearing trump chumps.

  55. Avatar Miguel says:

    Anybody else a little perplexed at the knock down drag out being waged over the (to date, zero) stimulus to the Post Office? I mean .. could the timing be any more inappropriate? (possibly brain dead?)

    Of course .. I never really got the whole antipathy towards the USPS thing anyway. (other than to know it’s a thing) But .. now?

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      It’s a conservative trope to despise all gum’mint agencies except the military and police, which we are required to worship. The irony of the special hatred reserved for the USPS is that it’s one of the few federal agencies that the Founders mandated in the Constitution.

      You would think that conservatives—who fancy themselves strict constitutional constructionists—would be adamant defenders of the Post Office. But you won’t catch me being the first to accuse them of intellectual consistency.

  56. Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

    What the liberals on here have wrong is criticizing Democrats is not the same as defending Trump, but with their antiTrump blinders on anyone not bashing the president is a RWNJ.
    What have the Democrats done so far? Denied Sanders the nomination, again. Biden has a severe lack of money and I don’t see it coming up from those who now back him. Bloomfield said he would support the nominee but apparently he is using his considerable amount of money for down ballot candidates. Specifically to retain control of the House and try to take control of the Senate.
    While the Democrats try to defeat Trump the Republicans are concentrating on keeping control of the Senate and regaining control of the House. Trump will be holding in person fund raisers while the Democrats will do online fund raisers. In the lead up to 2016 Clinton held a sold out $50,000 fund raiser in Aspen and she wasn’t even there. Name one Democrat, including Biden, that can do that.
    Stating that the Democrats have a losing plan is not the same as defending Trump.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      Examples of how we liberals here think anyone critical of Democrats or not bashing Trump is a RWNJ? I know you’re a conservative; I’ve never thought you’re a RWNJ.

      Honestly, I think Republicans are at least as hard on their own who don’t fall in line as are liberals. Witness: Trump’s rabid attacks on McCain and Romney, and the label “RINO” tarred onto anyone who doesn’t comply. Is there an equivalent “DINO” slur? I don’t think so.

      Right now, Trump and McConnell are huge blood-engorged ticks on the neck of America. I think we can forgive ourselves for being obsessed.

      • Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

        Steve, if you don’t think there is a DINO slur you haven’t visited Senator Sinema’s Facebook page. DINO along with Barbie in hooker boots are some of the tamer descriptions.

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          Yeah, okay Bruce. I’ve been to Arizona. I should have known better. 😉

          But still, you have to admit: RINO is far, far more prevalent than DINO. The big divide in the Democratic party isn’t as black-and-white as “yer either with us or agin’ us.” It’s where you fall on the continuum between old-school liberal Democrat or new-school socialist-Democrat. The number of Bernie-bros who see that as black/white are relatively few.

          (BTW, as retirement options go, my wife has Tucson high on her list.)

    • Avatar Gary Tull says:

      No but writing someone’s name in who isn’t on the ballet is pretty much the same as voting for Trump!

      • Avatar The Old Pretender says:

        Doesn’t matter who you vote for for president anymore. If Trump gets in with a flipped senate, he will be muzzled for his entire term, but if Biden gets in without a flipped senate, he will also be muzzled. Therefore, it’s the senate that matters now. Vote progressive down ballot and things may change, otherwise, the neoliberal corporatists win again. Other than that, quit vote-shaming, it’s just stupid now that the stakes are higher.

        • Avatar Gary Tull says:

          It mattered rather alarmingly in 2016 regardless of what party had the senate majority.

          • Avatar Larry Winter says:

            I didn’t vote for Hillary and it didn’t help Trump one bit. I agree with Old Pretender about vote shaming. I probably won’t be voting for Biden also. It still won’t help Trump.
            Blame the people that vote for Trump, not those that don’t.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Larry — You live in California, so you can vote for Bugs Bunny and Biden is still going to win the state’s 55 electoral votes. In that sense you’re right—it doesn’t matter, and you can vote your conscience and remain pure.

            I’m not vote-shaming anyone. I’m arguing that the claim of winning a mandate matters. An overwhelming popular victory means more than winning by a few thousand votes. It matters that when Trump and his followers claim to have a mandate, the rest of us can say “Bullshit—Der Pumpkinführer lost by almost 3 million votes.” Likewise, for the presumptive Democratic nominee to win overwhelmingly in 2020 would send a message.

            If you’re saying that one neoliberal corporatist is the same as the next neoliberal corporatist, I hear you loud and clear. But that argument means that I’ll die with the Supreme Court we have today, or worse.

            Sometimes you have to acknowledge the there really is a lesser of two evils—that hugely underwhelming moderate isn’t really the same as wanna-be fascist.

          • Avatar Larry Winter says:

            Steve, on further consideration, and as much I dislike the Democratic Party’s failings, I agree that this election has too much at stake. I will be voting for Biden even though I do have the luxury living in California that I can take a moral stance in my vote. Voting for Biden is taking a moral stance against what Trump stands for. My fear is that the Democrats will continue to ignore why Trump won so many states to begin with and won’t adequately address the pitfalls the working class are faced with. This new economic dilemma we face today just might force them to rethink their agenda. Maybe a silver lining in this pandemic crises.

      • Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

        Gary, in 2010 Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, a Republican, lost in the primaries and was not on the ballot in the general election. She won the senate seat solely on write in votes and is now the second longest serving Republican in the Senate. Writing in someone not on the ballot can make history.

        • Avatar Beverly Stafford says:

          I’d like to start a grass-roots write-in for Governor Cuomo.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            I understand the sentiment, but not the strategy. I think Trump needs to lose—the bigger the popular margin, the better. The message needs to be: America resoundingly rejects everything you believe in.

            Trump will never take that message….he’ll go to his grave thinking he won in 2020, but for all the cheating. But his sycophantic, authoritarian, proto-fascist followers need to get the message.

        • Avatar Gary Tull says:

          Bruce — This is what I know: low voter turnout typically benefits the Republican side of the U.S. selection process. So, when one uses their general election ballot to “write in” a name (for president or VP) who hasn’t a chance for that seat during that election, it equals the effect of not voting at all — which of course benefits the GOP.

          • Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

            Gary, you are exactly right. Clinton lost the 2016 election not because of write in votes or Green Party votes or Libetarian votes but because thousands of Democrats didn’t vote because they either were disgusted Sanders supporters or because the polls said Clinton would win in a landslide.
            A better question to ask is will those Sanders supporters show up for the polls in this November election?

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Whether or not Sanders supporters show up in November is a big question.

            But maybe the bigger question is whether the populist passengers of the Trump Train are still on board. Do they think Trump has delivered the promised goods? Does his persecution complex resonate so much with them that it still weighs more than his manifest failures? Does their shared bigotry keep them riding Trump’s train to nowhere?

            As we learned last election, it’s hard to know. A good 10% of Trump supporters don’t like to admit to their allegiance right out loud. It’s like admitting that your favorite TV show of all time is The Apprentice. Deep down inside, the smartest upper quartile of the Trump supporters know it’s a bad look.

  57. Avatar Beverly Stafford says:

    My fear is that all the protestors who are calling to repen America will suport the Tweeter. Who can blame people who are out of work, money, and food to strike out in any way they can? The Tweeter’s rant to liberate states is precisely what those folks want/need to hear. They will no doubt leap on the Cult 45 train come November because he’s saying what they want to hear even if it flies in the face of reason. Rather than being his undoing, COVID-19 may well cinch his reelection.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      I have great sympathy for people in households where the income stream has been abruptly cut off. I’m not in one of those households, so I try to remind myself not to be too smug about remaining cool while others are freaking out—I can imagine seeing the money running out, and having no idea when work will be available again. Those $1,200 stimulus checks are a far cry from what most middle-class families need to ride out 3 months or more.

      It makes me a little queasy that perhaps the majority of the people who are feeing the pinch in Shasta County will continue to believe that Trump cares about them and will take care of them. I may think they’re delusional, but I don’t (out of spite) want them to suffer because the buffoon they trust is a miserable failure.

      I do think it’s a bit humorously ironic, though, when it’s preppers, survivalists, militia yahoos, and other self-identifying “I’m ready for WTSHTF”-types are engaging in mass protests in state capitals, demanding that all businesses reopen immediately.

      • Avatar Beverly Stafford says:

        Further to that, I can well imagine that the protesters are feeling disenfranchised when they are so desperate because they may lose their homes yet homeless people are being put up in hotels. I’m so glad I don’t have to make that type of decision (housing the homeless to lessen virus spread), but people unable to pay the mortgage, feed themselves and their families, and have empty bank accounts must envy the homeless who are being housed and fed.

        • Avatar Anne Thrope says:

          Homeless are being put in hotels and illegal immigrants are being given money while law-abiding contributors to society are struggling due to a panicked response to a virus that is only as fatal to a working-age adult as driving 9 miles a day.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            It is arguable that only “working-age adults” count, and we should just roll the dice with everyone else. Maybe you can help me out. How do I tell my mom that she’s had her time, and I don’t care if she lives or dies?

            Also, imagine my surprise if you’re a working-age adult.

            Also, you’re the person who told us that the shutdown time amounts to destroyed lifetime, like we’re all in basements handcuffed to drain pipes.

            Also, Asperger’s is a bitch, ain’t she? All that brainpower, no empathy.

          • Avatar Anne Thrope says:

            Yes, no sacrifice is too great for the generation that brought us boy bands, deficit spending, materialism, global warming, and 25 year wars. I propose mandatory donations from all working age adults to provide boomers with weekly young blood transfusions. It is the least we can do!

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            My mom isn’t a boomer. She was born in 1938.

            Boy bands? You think 40-year-olds determine what’s popular in music?

            The rest of your insults are reasonable, and I share your harsh feelings about Boomers even if I am one. But the blame for most of what’s on your laundry list is more on target if you blame Republicans of all ages, rather than Boomers. Start with Ronald Reagan, who was born in 1911 (I don’t think that qualifies as “Boomer”).

          • Avatar Anne Thrope says:

            Simply put it is wrong for a minority to demand extraordinary sacrifices from the majority – doubly so when that sacrifice won’t even buy the minority enough time to fully finance a new car. Uncle Tom can claim slavery ain’t so bad because he’s not chained to a drain pipe, but it is slavery just the same.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Miss Anne — Just as your definition of wasted lifetime is hyperbolic, so too is your definition of slavery. We live under a system of representative government. If you don’t like the current curbs put on us by the current leaders in the face of COVID-19, persuade a plurality of voters to vote libertarian. Or, convince the federal courts that your constitutional rights are being violated.

            But I’ll play along with your minority/majority slave metaphor.

            I’ll assume you’re for the abolition of the Electoral College, right? After all, the EC allowed a minority of voters to elect Der Pumpkinführer, forcing their will on the plurality of voters (by almost 3 million). We are currently forced to live our lives under this incompetent bumblefuck, to our extreme collective sacrifice, and most of us didn’t choose him.

          • Avatar Anne Thrope says:

            Hyperbolic? How many lives will be cut short if Social Security is bankrupt in 8 years?

  58. Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

    Steve, the Trump supporters are alive and well even in Shasta County. The swing states are where the difference will be made this November. The political scene is changing as the rich liberal Hollywood type are moving to Jackson Hole, Wyoming. They are bringing their own PPE and doctors and with an empty Senate seat coming up, Enzi, the cowboy state is already turning a little purple especially with the Denver crowd fleeing to Cheyenne.
    Many large cities have lost their glow as a lot of self isolators are returning to family in less crowded towns and asking themselves why they live in the big city when they can work from home anywhere. High speed internet will be more important now.
    Florida, Colorado and Arizona are big battleground states as the left and right are both seeking control. Do I want McSally to be the Senate choice or Mark Kelly who many feel is riding his wife’s coattails? Will Cory Gardner retain his seat in a Colorado where the oil and gas lobby is as powerful as the Outdoor lobby.
    Down ballot contests are the important ones this election when the presidential contest is a crap shoot.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      I’m not marking down Wyoming as a blue state just yet. Teton County is the only county in the state that didn’t go for Trump in the 2016 election. His 45% margin (67% to 22%) over Clinton was the widest gap in the election. Also, with three electoral votes….who cares?

      Texas (36 electoral votes) is the big prize. Hillary actually did better than Obama in Texas last election. Everyone thinks it’s increased percentage of the Mexican-American population, but a closer look reveals that it’s also the rise in urbanization in Texas (almost all the major cities—Dallas, Houston, El Paso, Austin, San Antonio—went for Clinton), and the trend of college-educated voters increasingly voting Democratic.

      Speaking of flipping, Arizona will one day, too. Maricopa County, with its big cities (Pheonix, Scottsdale, Mesa, etc) is an odd duck—almost all big cities in the country are blue these days. Maricopa went from an 11% margin of victory for Romney in 2012 to a <3% margin of victory for Trump in 2016.

      When the 11 purple states that are trending blue (all of which Clinton improved over Obama's performances, despite losing) do at last turn blue, the GOP will have trouble winning another national election again. Expect the voter suppression, disenfranchisement, and other forms of cheating to increase as those flipping points approach.

      • Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

        Steve, who cares about Wyoming’s 3 electoral votes? Several on here have complained about them saying the Electoral College cheated Clinton out of the 2016 election. That’s a flip flop of opinion it seems.

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          As long as the electoral college exists, Wyoming is irrelevant. What matters are battleground states first, and states with huge numbers of electoral votes second.

          The Electoral College cost Clinton the election, but Wyoming had almost nothing to do with that. Nobody cares about Wyoming and Montana, unless they lose those two states and lose by 5 electoral votes.

        • Avatar Miguel says:

          Wyoming (and every other marginally populated state) is disproportionately represented in the electoral college .. and had no role in the Clinton loss. I would however encourage people to continue voting, even if you happened to be located in “lock” red or blue state. Still something we should all be doing.

          • Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

            The Electoral College has nothing to do with down ballot contests. The GOP is focused on winning back the House and retaining control of the Senate. Of the Democrats the only one I see focused on down ballot contests is Bloomberg. The rest of the Dems are focusing on defeating Trump. It is very possible Biden could become president and the GOP will win back the House and retain the Senate. Just because some of those GOPers, other than Romney, are not out right condemning Trump doesn’t mean they support him. They are walking a tightrope in their own states.

  59. Avatar Common Sense says:

    How do you tell if a President is looking out for his Country or Another Country? If he has oil purchased at $23 a Barrel to fill up the Emergency Supply he is looking out for Russia and Saudi Arabia. If he stocks up at $1 a Barrel, like right now….he is looking out for the USA.
    But then I wouldn’t think he would be buying right now at historic low levels with his track record.

    How about that Oversight….Large Corps drained the Small Business PPP program…..some were so embarrassed when it hit the news, they are Sheepishly returning it. Way to Kill your PR and Image.
    Hands in the Government Pig Trough….

  60. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Business is good if you are Trump Donor! At $95,416 a Linear foot, some Contractors wearing MAGA hats are really smiling. Let’s look at a positive here though, it’s about half what one of the first Trump Favorites was getting per foot about a year or so ago!

  61. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    Today the cult leader’s administration demoted the government’s leading authority on vaccine development because that doctor repeatedly warned against the voodoo drug cure promoted by an upstate NY quack—a voodoo cure that the cult leader latched onto like a leach.

    The voodoo cure ended up being tested on hundreds of veterans in retirement homes who had COVID-19, because the cult leader argued that there was no harm in trying. The findings came in a couple of days ago: There was zero benefit. However, because the drug is so harsh, 3x as many veterans on the drug that the cult leader promoted died, compared with the control group.

    Those additional dead veterans are on Der Pumpkinführer. No way in hell the drug would have been tested on them if it weren’t for his delusions.

  62. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Driving Hilltop today and looked over at the Hilltop Trail head leading to Turtle Bay. A group of about 10-12 teenagers inches apart standing there all together…….thought to myself…….if we are not all in this thing together and do what we are supposed to we are going to have our “Own” little Florida Beach Day Spike!

    When I was a youngster if our parents said you are staying home……we would not question that! Might have not liked it but it beat a whipping.

    • Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

      Good job CS. Ignoring California stay at home orders to drive around reporting others ignoring stay at home orders.

  63. Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

    How would Arizona opening up it’s economy affect me? My daughter already goes to work everyday at St Joseph Hospital. My son already drives delivering food to WalMart stores. I could take my grandkids, who already live with me, to the corner park around the corner and they could play while watching the golfers, an essential business, across the street. Hair dressers could open up and no more self mutilation by family members. MLB would return to empty stadiums and I wouldn’t have to watch reruns from past year.
    I will be okay as I am not going to any nursing home or visit the Navajo Nation where 50% or more of the deaths are occurring. That is an assumption as no one is releasing stats.

    • Avatar Steve Towers says:

      I’m watching a Giants’ game from last year right now.

      • Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

        Steve, my wife always falls asleep by the third inning so I told her to tune in those repeat games after the fourth inning and it would be a new game she hadn’t seen.

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:


          When I turned on the Giants-Brew Crew game last night, the G’s were behind 0-4. Sure enough, they came back and won 8-7. The big come-back inning to get it to 3-4, they scored 3 runs without getting a hit. Walk, walk, walk, walk, sacrifice, sacrifice, 3rd out. Don’t know if I’ve ever seen that before.

          My wife didn’t fall asleep, but when the Brewers went up 7-6 in the 8th she said, “Ugh, I can’t watch this.” I told her, “I’m thinking they’re repeating this one because it turns out okay. Sure enough, the G’s scored 2 runs in the bottom of the inning.

  64. Avatar Commons Sense says:

    Now we know why the current Admin doesn’t want any oversight! People might see where a lot of those Millions and Billions are going…..from Donors Companies and Corps…….well you fill in the rest of the blanks.

  65. Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

    That I have different opinions than the other posters on here has always been obvious. But allowing an anonymous poster who is also a coward and a liar to post personal information about me is where it ends. I will no longer take part in comments. I am not canceling my subscription because all the articles on Anews are worthy of reading. Instead I will reserve my comments for Facebook where posters can still lie but cowards can’t hide. Delete this or don’t post I don’t care, I’ve said my piece.

    • Avatar jeff says:

      Bruce, please do not do that. I for one, value your input. Where’s that stiff upper lip leaning into the wind. Considering that there is no such thing as “Common Sense” take the cheap shots with a grain of salt; you Salty dog you:-}

      • Avatar Beverly Stafford says:

        Ditto to that, Jeff. Bruce, most of us who read the posts by Common Sense – the only anonymous poster on ANC that I recall – simply skim over them then disregard them. Do I agree with all of your thoughts? Nope. But so what? I left for several months after a hurtful comment but came back. (Yeah, I know; nobody noticed). I hope you don’t allow a poster whom most of us ignore to keep you away.

        • P.S., Beverly, for the record, LOTS of people noticed you were gone. (My email inbox is the proof.) I know I speak for many who share my relief that you’re back in the comments section. We missed you! ANC wasn’t the same without you.

          Likewise, that’s the way I feel about Bruce, and all the good people here in our often disparate, sometimes motley online family. We matter to one another, even if we don’t always agree with one another.

          • Avatar Beverly Stafford says:

            Thanks, Doni. That’s appreciated. Back to Bruce: just yesterday, I was on the phone with my brother-in-law in Cody, and I quoted one of your comments about the horrific death toll on the Big Rez. I wouldn’t have known about that had you not shared that information. See? The majority of us care about your comments – and care about you. Ignore the hurtful comments by those who are unimportant to most of us.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      Bruce — Please don’t bail. When I think about trying to be more accomplished, I think of Hal. When I think about trying to be more virtuous, I think of you.

      We love you, man.

    • Bruce, I’ll join those who are asking you to please stay. I’ve removed the personal comments, and that commenter, whether he realizes it or not, is on probation, and thin ice.

      We won’t delete your comment. Please don’t leave.

    • Hal Johnson Hal Johnson says:

      Bruce, please don’t go. You are strong evidence that the term “compassionate conservative” needn’t be an oxymoron. Whether I agree with you or not, I find your posts engaging and thoughtful, and I would really miss your presence. Don’t let a pph get you down, Bruce. Please stay.

    • Avatar Linda Cooper says:

      Bruce, really…it wouldn’t be the same here without you. Please stay. Your comments provide a “checks and balance” for my perspective, and I do read your posts.

    • Avatar Candace says:

      Bruce, I missed the offending remarks that caused you to leave (glad I did) but whatever they were I hope you reconsider and keep chiming in. I’ve have made some regrettable comments here which I then apologized for. Perhaps whomever offended you will do the same. Perhaps not. Either way, please know that whether we agree or disagree, I appreciate your presence here in the comment section. They say that during a crisis always look for the “helper”. My guess is that you fit that category to a T. Take good care.

    • Avatar Larry Winter says:

      I too didn’t see the offending comment, though I’m not against anonymous commenters and Facebook can’t guarantee real names are being used, it is your choice to leave this comment forum.
      And just so you know, I can easily look up your address in AZ and see who else lives with you. It’s a brave new world we live in.

      And also just so you know, I’ve always read your comments, as I respect your perspective as being sincere and well thought out.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        After years and years of using a variety of screen names with different personalities (Steve Rushmore, Buzz Fledderjohn, Pogue Mahone, Phineas Gage….) I took a vow to use my real name as a hedge against intemperance—as we all know, I haven’t been 100% successful. Also, I’ll admit, I’ve been tempted to renounce my vow. There are rage-aholics that I’ve encountered online who are just plain scary, to be honest.

        I just spent 5 minutes being driven crazy by my inability to remember Bruce’s former pseudonym, but it finally came to me: Cheyenne.

        • Avatar Hal Johnson says:

          I enjoyed and usually agreed with the reviews posted by that Buzz guy, but I couldn’t quite understand why he was so down on In-N-Out.

          • Avatar Beverly Stafford says:

            I don’t recall any of his comments. However, if he couldn’t find any redeeming qualities of In-N-Out, I agree. We’ve been to the one in Redding, one in Santa Nella, and one in Arroyo Grande. Once was enough for each, and all were equally forgettable. The wonderful smell of grilled onions wafting through the air is what took us to the ones in Redding and Arroyo Grande, and I stopped the one in Santa Nella on the way back from the Central Coast because hunger struck. But then, I’m not a McDonald’s fan, either.

        • Avatar Candace says:

          Rage-aholic rants can be temporarily “cured” with shadow-banning. Takes them a while to figure out that the reason everyone stopped reacting to their posts is because they’ve been raging into the abyss.

  66. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:


    Der Pumpkinführer’s first biomedical adventure—taking the word of an upstate NY quack that a powerful antimalarial drug works on COVID-19 infection—spawned a test on retired veterans that resulted in 3x the death rate of those who didn’t get the drug.

    Today Commander Shinsplints suggested bombarding the infected with light after hearing that sunlight “kills” (denatures) the virus. The only parts of the light spectrum that penetrate deep tissue are carcinogenic AF, or cause radiation poisoning.

    Then he said that we should try injecting disinfectant into people, because he’d heard that disinfectant “kills” (denatures) the virus. Makes sense, right? Inject detergent, bleach, and isopropyl alcohol, kill the virus, get better.

    Sign up below to volunteer. Indicate your preference for radiation poisoning suicide or chemical poisoning suicide.

    • Avatar Miguel says:

      Saw a clip of that. Dr. Birx just looked like she was melting … That feeling when you’re slowly dying inside. The humiliation of sharing a platform with .. this creature!

  67. Avatar Karin W says:

    The VA hydroxychloroquine study isn’t promising, but it isn’t as damning as made out because doctors were more likely to experiment on the worst cases. Take a look at table 2 at the end of the report and you’ll see the hydroxychloroquine group was older, fatter, and more likely to smoke, have cancer, diabetes, and heart disease.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      Karen — If you take a hard look at Table 2, there were virtually no differences between the HC and control groups on cancer, renal, and other disease rates, or on Charlson comorbidity index—and twice the percentage of control group patients had asthma. What really stood out is that the HC+AZ patients appeared to be significantly healthier than both of the other groups.

      Also, they controlled for lack of randomized assignment by using propensity testing and adjusting to see if the outcomes remained significant. They did.

      They also ran an adjusted hazard ratio test and found that the death rate in non-ventilated HC-treated patients was 2.61x the control group, and in ventilated patients 4.08x the control group. That’s arguably worse than the <3x I reported from the raw data.

      Their preliminary conclusion: HC is a known heart toxin, and it probably kills COVID-19 patients who are already in dire straits.

    • Avatar Karin W says:

      The Charlson Comorbidity Index was not meant for covid19 patients, but even if you accept it as a proper risk weighing method the large confidence intervals (that 2.61x death rate was actually a 95% confidence range of 1.1-6.1x) show the authors lacked a sufficient sample size to conclude anything other than “HC has not been shown to improve outcomes in septuagenarian men.” The many comorbidity discrepancies between the sample groups suggests rampant selection bias (VA doctors were probably unlikely to prescribe experimental drugs to patients improving on their own, skewing the outcomes for the control group). It may also be that overwhelmed VA hospitals were more likely to resort to the hail mary of experimental drugs than VA hospitals under capacity. Randomized clinical trials will tell us more.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        Yeah, the authors made it pretty clear that the findings were extremely preliminary…but I still take them as suggestive that HC does more harm than good. I skimmed the article quickly—I don’t recall seeing any information about doses or temporal regimes. It made me wonder if the HC-AZ patients were getting lower doses of HC, and thus exposed to less toxicity.

        If I had to bet half my net worth on the outcome of the randomized clinical trials, I’d bet that HC causes significantly more harm than good. I’d place a side bet that it more than doubles the death rate. You?

    • Avatar Karin W says:

      There were no standards for dosing, but laboratory tests suggest hydroxychloroquine’s antiviral effects require 4.5 to 17 times the standard dosage prescribed for rheumatoid arthritis or lupus.

      I don’t think hydroxychloroquine is likely to be a big help, but I also don’t think it is likely to be a big harm in the general population. That the hc+azithromycin group had lower rates of cardiac issues suggests sample size and sample bias dominate the results.

  68. Avatar Ed Marek says:

    “sheltering in place” is going to be significantly less convenient once PG&E starts shutting the grid down due to fire risk.

    See the most recent drought map at the link:

    Early season heatwave in SoCal; drought intensifies in NorCalFiled in Weather/Climate Discussion by Daniel Swain on April 23, 2020 • 201 Comments

    Drought intensifies in NorCal, but spring rains bring SoCal relief March and early April brought a continuation of this year’s bizarrely bifurcated precipitation pattern across California…

    One consequence of this continued extreme dryness in NorCal is that the fire season will likely begin much earlier than last year (which had a pretty late start, due to a relatively wet and late spring). In addition, the NIFC is predicting a higher than average likelihood of large wildfires across NorCal by mid-summer–and I would expect that ultimately to be true into the autumn as well…

    • Avatar Larry Winter says:

      This could be a tough fire season this summer. I’ll be waiting to hear an “evacuate in place” order.

  69. Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

    Thank you all for the kind words but what you are missing is that this anonymous poster posted personal information, not the first time, and I am completely in the dark about what he/she/it is also contemplating to harass me or my family. I don’t even know if they are in Shasta County or Arizona. If this had been posted by one of you, which I know you wouldn’t, I could have recourse.
    I will stick to Facebook where I know who the posters are and they don’t hide behind a cloak of anonymity.
    As far as COVI I posted an article on Facebook about how the deaths in nursing homes is now, that we know of, over 10,000 deaths. The safety in nursing homes everywhere can no longer be ignored. The Phoenix reporters have almost made a vendetta toward officials to get those figures released.
    I also posted an article, which I had already posted Governor Ducey’s executive order on AUHSD Facebook, about Arizona ramping up ICU capacity in hospitals two weeks ago and now had the capacity to handle the latest surge in ICU bed need. Noted in the article was that neither Governor Ducey or Arizona health officials were patting themselves on the back for this lifesaving foresight.
    Now you can all go back to flogging a dead horse, I am not Doug Cook who enjoyed debating with you.

    • Avatar jeff says:

      And flog we will until that damn horse is out of the Barn!

    • You’ll be missed, Bruce. All the best to you.

    • Hal Johnson Hal Johnson says:

      Damn. Bruce, I’m gonna miss you.

    • Avatar Beverly Stafford says:

      Ditto to those who will miss you, Cheyenne/Bruce. I opened a Facebook account simply to know which businesses in Redding are Bethel-affiliated. I haven’t “friended” a single person and have deleted scads of strangers who seem to want to be my BFF. What I did find, contrary to your statement about anonymity, is that numerous of those wanting to “friend” me is that they have used nom de plumes. I don’t suppose there is any way Joe or Doni or Barbara can find out who this jerk Common Sense is . . . ? Or if he is harassing Bruce, can he be blocked. He’d probably pop up with another anonymous name, though. Good reason to restore the firewall.

      • Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

        Beverly, Facebook has been a godsend to me in this new normal of self isolation.
        Friend Doni and Hal, they have over 6,000 friends themselves, I can barely manage 30. About a dozen of mine are family in Trinity and Shasta that post pictures of their families which keeps me up to date on what they are doing. Another half a dozen are friends from Softball and the school district.
        I belong to El Mirage neighborhood group which keeps me up to date on El Mirage, I am sure Redding has the same thing. I also belong to Arizona metal detectors which surprisingly has a family member from Hayfork in it.
        I belong to British films and shows where I have found leads to shows on Netflix that I have scrolled over in the past. I belong to Longmire Book Club, I have a Wyoming connection. I also belong to Rocky Mountain National Park group which I post and see a lot of what I will probably never see again.

        • Avatar Beverly Stafford says:

          You do keep up to date! How about a C. J. Box Book Club? My Cody brother-in-law introduced me to both Box and Longmire.

          • Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

            Beverly, ask your brother in law about the affects of Kanye West and Kim Karadashian buying a Cody Ranch where they are rumored to be isolating during the pandemic. I only hear rumors.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Bruce — Not that NW Wyoming is a bad choice, but the celebrity and Silicon valley über-wealthy know that it’s all about survivalist retreats in New Zealand. Many who have built compounds there are sitting out the COVID-19 pandemic on the NZ coast. Peter Thiel, Facebook and Paypal billionaire, is hunkered down there along with numerous other rich doomsday preppers.

          • Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

            Steve I don’t care about NZ that is old news about rich enclaves around the world. I was interested in how Cody was handling Kanye West.

          • Avatar Candace says:

            Beverly, I’m a CJ Box fan as well. In fact, I’ve got scads of already read hardbacks (perfect condition) by authors David Baldacci, Catherine Coulter, Jonathon Kellerman, Kathy Reichs, JA Jance, Michael Connelly, Robert Parker (and now Ace Atkins & Reed Farrel Coleman), Faye Kellerman, Nevada Barr and a handful of others. My mother was and (step-dad still is) an avid reader; mysteries being one of the genres she enjoyed. They did (and step-dad still does but not as often) buy the hardbacks whenever a new one came out by an author they enjoyed and passed them around to a small group of friends and family while including a sticky note in each for people to rate 1-10. I miss doing that. My mother also had running credits at bookstores in Santa Cruz, Berkeley, Portland and local Redding used bookstores as she was always trading in books to get more. She was a good friend of Dick and Libby Hyatt ( Redding’s Hyatt’s Bookstore) and I spent many hours of my childhood in their bookshop as well as occasional visits to their home (goats!!). I’ve yet to read two of my mother’s favorite mystery writers, Dick Frances and Ngaio (sp?)Marsh which there are still quite a few of at my folks home. ANYWAY, too bad we’re not neighbors, I could do some “drive-by porch dropping” so others could enjoy the books. If one does as I’m doing with mail, etc., one could leave them in the bag for several days to be extra cautious about the virus (I mean, it might be unnecessary but who knows and I’ve got the time to wait) I’d love to share them (not for selling) for people to enjoy; especially these days.

          • Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

            Candace, I love Dick Francis as does my wife. He is very popular in Wyoming due to his horse racing themes even though they are English. His books would rank right up there with any Western writer.

  70. Avatar Mike Boehlert says:

    Trump should inject himself with disinfectant, and show all his supporters how he believes in his hunches.
    I believe he is a very stable moron.

    • Avatar Beverly Stafford says:

      Hey Mike, didn’t you hear? He was just being sarcastic! Yeah, I know, that was about putting a light down one’s gullet to destroy the virus. That reminds me of yo-yo’s who say something hurtful then respond with, “Can’t you take a joke?” My husband’s retort to that is, “Yeah, when I hear one.”

    • Avatar Candace says:

      Bruce, one of my favorite things I kept of my mother’s is a pair of earrings she would tell you ( with a wink and a smile) were her “Dick Francis” earrings. One of the many things she was known for by close friends and family was her love of unusual (not kitschy) earrings. You’re not alone in your recommendation. Guess I’ll grab one off the shelf when it’s safe to be around my 87 yr old diabetic step-dad again. As far as you changing the subject in the midst of my conversation with AT it looks like he’ll get his wish soon since I just read that we’re one of the counties pushing to reopen non-essential businesses, etc.

  71. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    You know, it’s one thing for Trump to forward the ridiculous excuse a day later that he was “being sarcastic to see what would happen” about injecting disinfectant and being treated with the kind of light energy that penetrates tissue and causes cancer—an absolutely blatant and ridiculous lie that’s obvious to anyone who watched him say it.

    Further, it would put him in no better light even if it were true that he was being sarcastic, because it would only show all the more that he’s a sick unit.

    But it’s another thing for Trump supporters to faithfully parrot the lie, even though it clearly makes many of them uncomfortable to do so. It suggests that there is no line in the sand that they refuse to breach. They’ll cross the Rubicon a thousand times for this deranged lunatic.

    • Avatar Beverly Stafford says:

      Couldn’t we just give him a couple of hookers to keep him occupied and let Governor Cuomo and Dr. Fauci run the country?

    • Avatar Miguel says:

      Well, you know .. because the media (and anyone with an IQ above dishwater) is always picking on him! Poor guy just can’t catch a break!

  72. Avatar Gary Tull says:

    Disinfectant riff is latest of many Trump science clashes

  73. Avatar Candace says:

    I don’t watch the daily Trump hour(s) but I did see a clip of his “sarcastic” comments on Amanpour & Co. At this point I believe he could stand naked (literally, not figuratively, since that’s already on parade) while practicing armpit farts and tell us the next day he’d simply been trying to lift up the American people; which his admin and base would then applaud and hold him up as being the “Great Unifier”. Yep, that’s true sarcasm but in this instance I find what’s behind the sarcasm to be more horrifying than humorous.

  74. Avatar Candace says:

    Thought I might clarify my “rage-aholic” comment. I was speaking in general terms about anyone who trulyvnon-stop rage-rants. So far I don’t consider anyone (whose comments make it through) on ANC to be a “rage-aholic”.

  75. Avatar Karin W says:

    The Washington State Supreme Court recently voted 5-4 against releasing a majority of inmates in response to covid19. Among the prisoners who came one vote away from freedom was Gary Ridgway, the Green River Killer who admitted to killing eighty women and was sentenced to life without parole in 2003.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      No. The lawsuit did not demand the release of a majority of inmates. Nor would it have resulted in the freeing of mass murderers. It would have mostly affected non-violent criminals and those with serious health-related preconditions, including pregnant women.

      And this isn’t Infowars.

  76. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    It’s weird reading all of the “let’s reopen and whoever gets sick gets sick, and that’s how we develop herd immunity” points of view. Expect to hear more and more of that in the coming weeks and months.

    It’s weird because the unspoken subtext is: Sure, a lot of old people and people with medical issues will die—maybe a million Americans alone. So what? I want a haircut, I want to go out to dinner and a movie, I don’t want my personal and/or public retirement funds bled white, and if I’m being honest, I’m sick of my relentlessly needy kids.

    That’s a harsh calculus….but I can’t say it’s irrational.

    • Avatar Anne Thrope says:

      Do you have the right to force me to perform mouth to mouth resuscitation if you drown? If not, why force me to engage in even more extraordinary measures to potentially delay your premature death from an outside cause?

      Every week of this stay at home order is equal to sentencing 10,000 Californians to a lifetime of house arrest. Sure, some people have nicer homes than others, but it is the house arrest of innocents just the same.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        For the record, I’m not forcing you to do anything, and never will. And since I only think I know who you are, I don’t know for sure where you live—but if you live in Shasta County, you’re once again displaying a gift for issuing “way out there” hyperbole.

        This is in no way resembles house arrest. Now please excuse me while I go to the hardware store for some essential home-improvement-project building materials.

        • Avatar Anne Thrope says:

          You’re right that this isn’t house arrest, it’s worse. In addition to being able to go to work & the grocery store, those on house arrest can also go to church!

  77. Avatar Candace says:

    Steve, not only that but I expect to hear the “Great Gaslighting” of the American people by the Trump
    Admin. as we get closer to November. “The virus wasn’t/isn’t really THAT bad; not THAT many people lost (and are likely still losing) their lives to it. Look away from all the still grieving and yet to grieve mothers, daughters, fathers, sisters, brothers, sons, aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents, friends, husbands, wives, etc. The death of their loved ones are regrettable but hey, they’re “heroes” now so that’s a good thing. Nothing to see here, move along.” Oh, and to your original point Steve, just two days ago I had someone sarcastically say to me “People will drown in Whiskeytown Lake this summer, we’d better drain all the water.” I reminded them that drowning isn’t “catchy”. Unfortunately I can’t say the same for willful ignorance.

    • Avatar Anne Thrope says:

      Completely innocent pedestrians and passengers are sometimes killed in car crashes. We could ban cars, yet we value that freedom more than the 35,000 lives lost each year on American roadways.

      • Avatar Candace says:

        AT, You’re correct, “we” could ban cars but “we” don’t. If you get hit by a car and die I won’t in turn die from you having been hit. If you have the virus and transmit it to me there’s a very real chance that I may get sick and die or pass it on to someone else who then gets sick and maybe dies and so on and so forth. Cars can be and are deadly; so is this virus. You can absolutely ban cars; you can’t ban a virus. Sooner or later we’ll create a vaccine to help in the battle of this virus. Sooner or later we’ll ban cars or make cars that are safer. In the meantime as most of us do our best to limit travel (and if able, stay home), there are less cars on the road and therefore less fatalities caused by driving them. Does driving cars less mean cars themselves are less deadly? No. Does staying home make the virus itself less deadly? No. Does driving less or staying home in the midst of a pandemic lessen the possibility of fatalities caused by either of those two things until positive changes come? Of course. If someone practices their personal freedom to choose to get in a car with the intent to purposely hit me, knowing beforehand it may cause me great bodily harm or death, and they then carry out and succeed in their mission they will be charged with a crime. If someone chooses to practice their personal freedom by willfully ignoring recommended safe distancing for the protection of others during a pandemic which then results in harming or killing someone else who’s freedom was most violated? The person doing the killing or the person who died who did not give the other permission to kill them? Remember, when speaking about your personal rights and freedoms to “always inverse”. Your “Ayn Rand” is showing…

        • Avatar Anne Thrope says:

          Nothing prevents those who fear the outside world from living like agoraphobes.

          You can certainly argue that it is negligent of those who test positive or are symptomatic to go out and risk others much in the same way it is negligent to get sloshed and head out for a drive. But to quarantine healthy & unsymptomatic citizens goes way too far.

          • Avatar Candace says:

            Asymptomatic people can be positive for this virus and pass it to others. Other than those who’ve tested positive, that’s pretty much the point. Also, choosing to follow guidelines in order to protect ones health as well as the health of others during a pandemic hardly classifies one as Agoraphobic. That’s tantamount to saying if you’re not choosing to follow the guidelines you’re simply a freedom loving “Adventure Seeker” to be admired and emulated. Let’s be real.

          • Avatar Anne Thrope says:

            You’re right, you can catch it from asymptomatic people. If you think the risk is too high for you, no one is stopping YOU from staying home in total isolation.

            But according to the math and science, my risk from coronavirus is very low. There are maybe 300 people in Shasta County with covid19 – roughly 1 in 6500. I come into close contact with an average of fewer than 10 people a day (many of them the same people day after day, but to be conservative I’ll assume they are all new people each with a 1 in 6500 chance of having the virus). So my daily risk of contact is less than 1 in 650. Crunching the numbers, my risk of contact with the virus over a 180 day virus season is less than 1 in 4.

            That doesn’t sound great, but according to data from Diamond Princess & the Theodore Roosevelt my chance of contracting covid19 from a contact is less than 20% making my overall risk of contracting covid19 in Shasta County 1 in 20.

            That still sounds bad, except data from the Theodore Roosevelt suggests healthy young adults like myself have a 0.5% chance of hospitalization, making my risk of hospitalization 1 in 4000.

            That’s still pretty risky, but those are conservative odds assuming no prophylactic measures. With a properly fit n95 mask, gloves, and rigorous hygiene practices, my chance of contracting the virus decreases by more than 95% resulting in a hospitalization risk of less than 1 in 80,000.

            So I weigh that conservative 1 in 80,000 risk of hospitalization again a near 100% chance of temporary mental & long term economic Depression and I reach the rational conclusion that the prescription is worse for me than the disease.

            Granted as more people venture out the number of cases in Shasta County will rise and that calculus will change, but I am perfectly capable of weighing the risks and appropriately modifying my behavior.

            This strategy is working fine in Sweden, which has maintained freedom and economic health in exchange for roughly 4x California’s fatality rate. And that 4x multiple is very likely to decrease to around 1x over a full year because Sweden is reaching herd immunity while our worst peak is due next fall/winter.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Miss Anne — If people are willing to do what it takes to reduce the risk of being infected to 1 in 80,000, we should open everything up again.

            That’s nowhere near what the NorCal counties are proposing to the state.

            Sweden may indeed achieve herd immunity, but to claim that they WILL is a dangerous assumption. We don’t yet know that prior infection by SARS-CoV-2 affords any immunity at all…or if it does, whether or not it lasts longer than a few months.

          • Avatar Anne Thrope says:

            We don’t know for certain that a prior infection affords immunity, but it is very likely given the behavior other coronavirus strains and the very few anecdotes of reinfection (most of which could be explained as a low grade remission rather than a period of being completely uninfected).

            That the immunity will fade over time is almost certain, with 3 months being a commonly quoted period for other coronavirus strains. But it isn’t binary, someone past that expiration date will still maintain partial immunity which usually lessens the severity of subsequent infections to similar strains.

          • Avatar Steve Towers says:

            Miss Anne — You say immunity is “very likely.” When I go in search of immunologists specializing in coronaviruses saying that prior infection “very likely” affords meaningful immunity, I instead see an abundance of caution and a reticence to speculate.

            Apparently, what the experts know more than anything else is that they don’t yet know how much immunity will follow after recovery from COVID-19, or for how long. They all seem to agree on that.

          • Avatar Anne Thrope says:

            From a public health perspective, being circumspect about covid19 immunity makes the most sense. If immunity is fleeting & partial, you don’t want to risk people unnecessarily exposing themselves to the virus. You also fear that by having some people return to normal lives others, without immunity, will be less likely to abide by your edicts.

            But public health officials’ sole priority is public health. Being wrong in manners that infringe upon freedom is of no concern to them.

            The fact that hundreds of thousands of people have had confirmed cases of COVID19 and there are only a dozen or so claims of reinfection is fairly convincing circumstantial evidence of some level of immunity – especially when combined with the many anecdotes of COVID19 patients responding positively to survivors’ plasma.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          Ok, I admit it, I’ve been poking my head in here occasionally to see what’s going on, usually I just shake my head and move on with my day…but I feel the need to respond here. When we talk about car deaths, I think you are missing the point . It is about risk management. No, Candace we don’t want to ban cars to save lives…as a society we are willing to sacrifice 30,000 lives a year for the convenience to get to Sacramento in 2 1/2 hours. If we were concerned about every human life, the speed limit on I-5 would be 35 mph. If we were concerned about every human life, we wouldn’t speed. How many of you all speed on a regular basis?
          How does that fit in with the virus? A year from now, we won’t be talking about the virus, but the economy will still be devastated, it will take years to recover from this. So we have to look at the risk. Do we get the economy back running again even if it causes a higher risk factor? But in the long term will be more beneficial? I think so.
          Let’s go back and look at why we shut down the economy. Remember the curve? Remember we had to do this so we wouldn’t overrun the health care? That we would have enough beds to handle all the cases expected? Well, we did that, we flattened the curve. I don’t think there is any hospital that are currently overrun. Deblasio didn’t need 30,000 ventilators. He got 4,000 and that was apparently plenty. So if the health care crisis is over, why aren’t we opening up the country?Why did we all of a sudden change the rules?
          We have had 27 cases in Shasta County…if I was high risk, I would shelter on my own…it is the sensible thing to do. But I would certainly like to go back to work, youi ought to see my hair, I look like a bum. Why can’t I get a haircut?
          It just seems to me that those that are still getting paid, that are retired, or are politicians (that are still getting paid) are the ones that are happy to keep the economy shutdown. I have been off work for a month now…I’m ready to go back.
          If you look at the cases and deaths around the country, the NY Metropolitan area has had half of all cases and deaths in the US. Long Island has more cases and deaths than all of California! The 27 cases in Shasta County? I’ll take my chances, just like I take my chances driving 70 mph down to Sacramento. If you are retired, stay home if you choose…just don’t force me to

          • Avatar Candace says:

            Hi Doug, per usual you assume I didn’t understand something. I assure you I did not miss the correlation drawn to “risk”. Also, you know nothing about my financial situation but again, assume away. I’d love nothing more than people being able to return to work (including many in my family) in a way that helps keep others as safe as humanly possible from this virus. So far, here in Shasta County, I’m not convinced that the social distancing we’re being told will be required for Phase I and beyond will be enforced with any consistency or involve any meaningful consequence for not doing so; meaning neither local LE nor the general public being held accountable for turning a blind eye or refusing to comply. Case in point, a recent RS story regarding a local business (that has no way of social distancing) very publicly defying the governor’s orders to stay closed. The mere fact that the RS chose to give the owner an in-depth interview complete with photos and an endorsement by another local business speaks volumes and flys in the face of other struggling businesses (such as one similar business mentioned in the same story) who are complying and trying to make do. You have no idea how much I hope I’m proven wrong and that despite our lack of extensive testing and seemingly lax compliance to, and enforcement of, social distancing doesn’t end up killing people. Again, I “get” the car/virus risk correlation, I just don’t agree with it. Both things can be lethal; one is transmissible with no known cure while the other is not.

          • Avatar Candace says:

            AT, and here we are back at the beginning. YOUR risk is low and therefore outweighs the safety of others with higher risk factors than yours. THOSE people can remain isolated and die alone because “Boo hoo, who cares, they’re not me and anyway they’re dispensable, cuz…old.” Quite obviously you’re an intelligent being so of course it’s occurred to you that other groups with more risk factors than yourself would like to be out in the world enjoying themselves right along with you and therefore would like others to practice social distancing. If you’re practicing the recommended social distancing measures than cudos to you and thank you. If you’re not adhering to the guidelines to help protect others because the stats say YOU have little risk then I say simply following stats be damned if your understanding of them doesn’t also result in your having a social conscience regarding the safety of others. You and I obviously disagree on a host of things and while I’m sure you’re much better educated than I on most any subject, I’m not budging on this one. I sincerely hope you and others stay well.

          • Avatar Candace says:

            Doug, as to your following musing: “It just seems to me that those that are still getting paid, that are retired, or are politicians (that are still getting paid) are the ones that are happy to keep the economy shutdown.”, you’re making the assumption that people not in your same position are uncaring and selfish. That’s pretty insulting to a lot of good-hearted, caring folks who are stepping up to help others if they’re in a position to do so. Heck, even if they’re not in a financial position to help they do it anyway and then make due with less. I know many doing just that. Conversely, I personally know of no one in the general populace who’s “happy” about people struggling to pay their rent, mortgage, keep their business alive or put food on their table or afford medical care. No one. Not one. As far as politicians go, who the heck knows, seeing as a lot of them are financially insulated and completely disconnected from the working class and poor; Democrats and Republicans alike. I fully empathize with your wanting to go back to work and agree that some have it easier than others. I think we can all agree that this is hard and harder yet for some more than others. It sucks in all ways and it’s hard. Stay well.

          • Avatar Anne Thrope says:

            How is my going out when I have no reason to believe I’m infected adversely affecting you? We’re never going to bump into each other if you remain completely isolated, so you’re at no risk of infection from me.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Candace, I wasn’t really talking about you personally as I have no idea of your employment and financial situation. My comment was more to my general thought that those that have no skin in the game financially, and unfortunately those are the politicians that are making these decisions, have no sense of urgency to open the economy. It doesn’t affect them as much as it does us that are out of work, they have the luxury to stretch this out as long as possible. As a side note, interesting that my daughters expensive college is not pro rating any tuition for being closed since March.
            From what I can see as I’m out and about, which isn’t often…I believe we are close to the end of people’s patience with sheltering in place, I’m seeing more and more cars on the streets, more people walking around. This can’t last much longer. Nobody seems to want to talk about the economic devastation that will be with us for years to come. We will never be able to make up for those lost tax revenues…you know, the revenues that pay for social services, infrastructure that we will need in the future. The problem as I see it, mayors and governors don’t want to be the first ones to make the move, it is easier to be overly cautious, you’ll never be criticized for that. All I’m asking for is a proper balance. Shelter those that are high risk, let’s get the economy rolling again. It won’t happen immediately. We all will remain cautious and avoid big crowds. I probably won’t shake hands ever again. There is plenty of new data out there that shows the virus isn’t near as deadly as we thought. Pretty dang deadly, probably 3 times more deadlier than the common flu, but not near deadly enough to shut down the entire economy.

          • Hal Johnson Hal Johnson says:

            “From what I can see as I’m out and about, which isn’t often…I believe we are close to the end of people’s patience with sheltering in place, I’m seeing more and more cars on the streets, more people walking around. This can’t last much longer.”

            Doug, even though you’re a fixed-wing pilot (kidding, kidding), I tend to agree with you, at least in the scope of the far north state. Three weeks ago, if I had forgotten a mask while in town, I would have felt like a heel. I’ve been out twice this week, though, and felt a little conspicuous wearing a mask. Attitudes do seem to be changing.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Hal, since I’ve been off work, I have been doing a lot of flying. Not a lot of traffic out there, been fun and flying almost every day certainly helps proficiency…and you can’t get better social distancing than being by yourself 9,000 feet in the air.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Hal — I had to make a run into Palo Cedro village yesterday for hardware and grocery shopping.

            There were at least 20 customers in the hardware store—lots of people taking the time off to do home projects. I was the only customer wearing a mask—no masks on any of the employees.

            There were maybe 40-50 customers in the grocery store while I was there. Three besides me were wearing masks—including a couple. Maybe one-third of the employees were wearing masks.

            Yeah, I felt conspicuous and a little self-conscious.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      Yep. It galls me knowing that come October as the campaign comes to a head, to whatever extent the states and individuals have succeeded in ensuring this pandemic doesn’t kill half a million Americans, Trump and his cult members will be taking credit for that success, blaming others fort the economic cost of the measures taken on behalf of that success, and ignoring that they resisted taking those measures before and during the time they were being implemented.

      Trump’s manifest refusals and failures to act will be recast as his greatest success story.

      Joe Biden stumbles over a few words and the cult members scream: OH MY GOD! HE’S SENILE! HIS FAMILY OUGHT TO BE ASHAMED, LETTING HIM RUN IN HIS DETERIORATED CONDITION!

      Trump stands behind a podium and talks about the promising developments in injecting bleach and sticking a UV lamp up your ass, raving lunatic that he is, and his cult members are like: WHAT?! HE SIAD HE WAS BEING SARCASTIC!

  78. Avatar Steve Towers says:

    As Candice pointed out, there’s no such thing as a car crash pandemic. It’s not communicable, and there are other ways to reduce their numbers. And 50,000 COVID-19 deaths in a month is on track to be an order of magnitude more deaths than 35,000 auto accident deaths in a year.

    • Avatar Beverly Stafford says:

      Now there are two anonymous posters I’ll ignore: Common Sense and Miss Anne Thrope. Such drivel. Do they lie awake thinking up stupid things to write? Hummm, two words in that sentence apply: lie and thinking – one they do (lie) and one they don’t (think). OK, Barbara, I’ll take my lumps. Delete this.

      • Hal Johnson Hal Johnson says:

        Beverly, I usually disagree with Common Sense and Anne Thrope, and in fact, I usually skip over anything they write. But, geez, why resort to personally insulting them? They’re already greatly outnumbered in these here parts; isn’t that comfort enough? C’mon.

        • Avatar Beverly Stafford says:

          Apologies, Hal. You are absolutely correct. My comment was uncalled for. Simply ignoring their posts should have been sufficient. Mea culpa.

  79. Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

    Not to change the subject but I just received a letter from the IRS that had a signed letter from President Trump that I am receiving my Economic Impact Payment that has been direct deposited, It has been almost ten days since I received it.
    Thank you President Trump, I think I will have the letter framed.
    LOL stirring the pot, how dreadful of me.

    • Avatar Miguel says:

      Got mine too. English on one side Spanish on the reverse. Real cheesy printing job. But at least they got my address right! Too be honest with you, Bruce .. the idea of framing this hadn’t really crossed my mind. You’re demonstrating a greater imagination than my feeble abilities. Salute!

      • Avatar Ed Marek says:

        ~200 million letters at a cost of ~50 cents each.

        That’s another ~$100 million in federal spending of borrowed money that will NOT be spent on COVID-19 testing or face masks.

        I haven’t even received my direct deposit, so letter for me yet.

        Framing is not high on my priorities right now.

        I’m sure the letters would be most appreciated if they included a photo of trump, and could be used as a substitute for toilet paper.

  80. Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

    Arizona recorded no COVI deaths yesterday, not even on the Navajo Nation. But we aren’t opening up yet, Colorado along with a few other states that haven’t paused are. Governor Ducey is really trying to handle the situation and gets high marks even from some Democrats.
    He will be termed out and it is expected that he will become the president of ASU. Maybe that is why he isn’t worried about the protesters.

  81. Avatar Ed Marek says:

    Shasta County BOS meeting this AM RE Letter to Governor regarding COVID-19 recovery plans:

    My comment (with errors, but hopefully in time) below:

    I want to thank the Shasta County Board of Supervisors for the opportunity to comment on this Letter, which I found very thoughtful and well-reasoned overall.

    However, I’d like to make one point that I think need further consideration before you reach your decision.

    The first, is that while the current infection rate in North California is clearly much lower than the state as a whole, the factual basis of your decision must not be on that infection rate, whatever it may be, but on the transmission rate in our region, which remains completely obscured by the limited testing history.

    Your letter states”..As of April 27, there had been only 125 reported cases in the 13 counties, for a case-rate of 15.4 per 100,000 residents, compared to a rate of 109.4 per 100,000 residents in the State of California…” but without a statistically significant program of testing overall populations, these numbers have little meaning or usefulness in reaching your decision.

    What you need to know, is what the transmission rate is under the present restrictions, and be able to accurately determine how much the rate will have increased after current restrictions are lifted.

    For example, if the current transmission rate (including asymptomatic infections) in North California is one (each infection spreads to one other person) then COVID-19 will continue to infect our region at about the current rate until effective therapies or a vaccine can be found. If it is already under one, the virus would eventually become extinct, except for the inevitable new introductions from other regions.

    However, If the first phase of relaxation you propose is adopted by the state increases the transmission rate to any level greater than one, then it will only be a matter of time until the infection rate in North California reaches the tragically high levels seen elsewhere. Without accurate estimates of current (and future) infections provided by a comprehensive testing program, It will be impossible to determine the increase in the rate of transmission, and judge the success or failure of the first phase you propose.

    As much as we often complain about being dominated by the more populous regions, North California, we received a great gift by having the virus transmission rate greatly reduced so early in our pandemic. We benefited from the early warning we received from Central and Southern California, and the correct decision to establish the standards State-wide.

    In my opinion, relaxation of current standards in North California requires a very high burden of proof in regards to public safety, and one which has not yet been met.

    Test first, relax later.

    Thank You,

    Ed Marek

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      You could have also pointed out that in a bulleted list of particulars, each capitalized line should conclude with no terminal punctuation. If the bulleted list of particulars is presented in sentence form, with each item ending with a comma or semi-colon and the penultimate item terminating with “…and;” then each bulleted item should NOT be capitalized (just as they wouldn’t be capitalized in a typical un-bulleted sentence listing the same items).

      That nit-picking aside, your critique of their letter was well-reasoned.

  82. Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

    And, drumroll please, here she comes to save the day, Hillary Clinton endorses Biden.

    • Avatar jeff says:

      And Sara Palin endorses trump; whats the point of your comment?
      Some guttural pleasure of stirring the pot?

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        I think the point—which you reinforced—is that some endorsements are not necessarily valuable. I wouldn’t be surprised if Joe didn’t ask for Hillary’s endorsement. Or if he did, I would be surprised if Hillary responded, “You sure?”

        Few politicians are more polarizing than the Clintons.

      • Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

        Jeff, as I have posted a few times it is my opinion that the only way Biden, who desperately needs cash to compete with Trump, is going to get that cash is to align with Hillary Clinton. Bloomberg is not forthcoming with financial aid for Biden. It is not stirring the pot to voice a fact. Do you have a better choice?

  83. Avatar Ed Marek says:

    Anne Thrope April 28, 2020 at 12:41 pm

    “…according to the math and science, my risk from coronavirus is very low.

    …Granted as more people venture out the number of cases in Shasta County will rise and that calculus will change, but I am perfectly capable of weighing the risks and appropriately modifying my behavior.

    This strategy is working fine in Sweden, which has maintained freedom and economic health in exchange for roughly 4x California’s fatality rate. And that 4x multiple is very likely to decrease to around 1x over a full year because Sweden is reaching herd immunity while our worst peak is due next fall/winter.”

    Sorry, but your math and/or understanding of herd immunity is defective.

    Absent an effective vaccine, herd immunity probably requires each of us to accept a close to two-out-of-three chance of getting the COVID-19 infection, with several million Americans in total killed as the result.

    “Here’s Why Herd Immunity Won’t Save Us From The COVID-19 Pandemic

    …why herd immunity could never be considered a preventative measure.

    If 70 percent of your population is infected with a disease, it is by definition not prevention. How can it be? Most of the people in your country are sick! And the hopeful nonsense that you can reach that 70 percent by just infecting young people is simply absurd. If only young people are immune, you’d have clusters of older people with no immunity at all, making it incredibly risky for anyone over a certain age to leave their house lest they get infected, forever.

    It’s also worth thinking about the repercussions of this disastrous scenario – the best estimates put COVID-19 infection fatality rate at around 0.5-1 percent. If 70 percent of an entire population gets sick, that means that between 0.35-0.7 percent of everyone in a country could die, which is a catastrophic outcome.

    With something like 10 percent of all infections needing to be hospitalised, you’d also see an enormous number of people very sick, which has huge implications for the country as well.

    The sad fact is that herd immunity just isn’t a solution to our pandemic woes. Yes, it may eventually happen anyway, but hoping that it will save us all is just not realistic. The time to discuss herd immunity is when we have a vaccine developed, and not one second earlier, because at that point we will be able to really stop the epidemic in its tracks.

    Until we have a vaccine, anyone talking about herd immunity as a preventative strategy for COVID-19 is simply wrong…”

    • Avatar Anne Thrope says:

      Herd immunity is not a fixed number like 70%. The equilibrium dramatically varies based on our actions – like physical distancing or wearing PPE.

      And remember the virus is not harmful to most people. It disproportionately affects those near death: despite being a miniscule fraction of the population, 40% of California’s deaths were from elder care facilities where the average life expectancy pre-Covid19 was less than 6 months. So it makes sense to isolate those populations and allow healthy younger citizens to gradually be exposed to the virus. The death rate on the Theodore Roosevelt with its younger healthier crew was 0.1%. On the Diamond Princess (average age 58) the death rate was 1.6%. In New York City it is 0.5% (average age 37 – similar to the US overall).

      If you need Americans to acquire antibodies to stop the spread of the virus, don’t you want the demographic with a 0.1% infection fatality rate to shoulder that burden?

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        Miss Anne — Much of what you present as fact is either soft inference from non-systematically gathered data on this particular virus, or speculation from what’s known of other coronaviruses, which vary in presentation from mild colds to a case-mortality rate of over one-third for MERS.

        You want to roll the dice and see what happens, probably to protect your investments. You’re also good with flexing your “I do what I want” muscles even if that means others are forced to do less. Those are logical (if selfish) points of view, but let’s be clear and honest: At an assumed 70% infection rate and an assumed 0.5% infection rate, well over a million Americans are going to die for you to get what you want.

        The ultimate form of oppression—the depravation of liberty at the hand of another—is being dead because that other values your life at zero.

        • Avatar Anne Thrope says:

          That same uncertain data is being used to justify the largest erosion of civil liberties in a century. It makes a terrible precedent for the next time we have overhyped news of something like a killer bee invasion or forcoming pandemic of the west nile virus. Public Health officials would of course claim: “If not for our strong actions, this year’s nothingburger apocalypse would have been terribly deadly!”

          • Avatar Candace says:

            So in AT’s “nothing burger” world, if one happens to have an elderly or not so elderly but immunocompromised mom needing to go out while trying to stay well by following social distancing guidelines she shouldn’t expect others to give one whit about whether she lives or dies. After all, wearing masks are uncomfortable and embarrassing for some so they shouldn’t have to wear them if they don’t want to. To hell with her, she’s not their problem. They can stand unmasked and as close to her as they damn well please. This coming Mother’s Day simply send her some funeral flowers and call it a day cuz …your civil liberties. Lovely.

          • Avatar Anne Thrope says:

            If you need to go out wear appropriate PPE and decontaminate afterward. Your risk will be infinitesimally low for 1 short necessary outing in Redding.

            For perspective, about 180 American health care workers have died from COVID19, but in that same time period 200 truck drivers have died in accidents (and there are 5 times as many health care workers as truck drivers). For more perspective, 80,000 Americans died in the five month 2017-2018 flu season (i.e. “more than killed in Vietnam!!!”).

            PS: I said Africanized Killer Bees and the West Nile virus are nothingburgers, not covid19. Covid19 is a little more deadly than the flu, but not as deadly as obesity. Serious, but not worth shredding the Constitution.

      • Avatar SB says:

        I agree. My father died on February 23 from this virus. But yeah, you’re right, he was elderly, he didn’t matter much anymore I guess. He was retired, no longer a contributing member of society, he was only a father to me, and a grandfather to my I can really grasp what you’re getting at. He wasn’t YOUR family so, bother

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          SB — Sorry for your loss. One of my Denver-area relatives, an uncle, died two days ago after contracting COVID-19. It came as quite a shock to my mom’s family—he took ill and died very quickly. I told my mom that was a blessing, as he didn’t suffer in isolation for week or more.

          He was elderly, so also an expendable to everyone except those who cared about him.

          Of course, now my elderly mom and her two sisters are holding their breath, hoping none of theme contrated it from him. I’m holding my breath, too. I figured the first person I know personally to get seriously ill from COVID-19 and perhaps die would be some local acquaintance, just on the odds.

          • Avatar Candace says:

            SB and Steve, I’m also sorry for both your losses. As a fellow human, I care.

          • SB and Steve, I echo Candace’s condolences. I’m so sorry for both of your losses. I hope you have some good memories of both men during happier times to comfort you. 🙁

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            My favorite memory Butchie, of the uncle we lost: He was a magnificent self-taught musician who played professionally. He was a young adult in the 50s, and his piano repertoire was mostly the boogie woogie, blues, R&B, and nascent rock of those years. Jerry Lee Lewis, Ray Charles, Fats Domino, Dr. John, Pine Top Perkins…he played their stuff with wild abandon.

  84. Joanne Snyder Joanne Snyder says:

    I don’t want to get what my healthy young friend got…the blood clots and the stroke and the blood disorder and deasth from the virus, so I’m going to protect myself. You all do what you want to do. Businesses will start opening up when owners figure out how to still do business and protect workers and customers. If I get an incentive check I’m going to give it away. I’m retired and my situation is drastically different than the young working families in this county who need so much help right now. Oh, but keep the schools closed for awhile.

  85. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    If I’m Governor Newsom, when I get the letters from NorCal counties requesting autonomy with regard to opening up, my response is to drive to Redding unannounced and poke around. Visit a grocery store, a big-box home improvement store, a nursery, a city park…see how the locals doing with masks, social distancing, and the rest.

    What I’ll see is a population of Californians who aren’t taking this seriously at all. A population of what epidemiologists and immunologists call “free riders,” who are content to sponge off the Californians who are doing the heavy lifting. I might walk into a grocery store with 50 people in it and see two people wearing masks.

    Then I’m driving back to Sactown, sitting down at my desk, and writing back: Not only no, but f*** no.

  86. Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

    Here in Arizona, no governmental restrictions like California, people are wearing masks everywhere. Because private businesses, like Walmart and FRYS are requiring it of their employees and customers. On the news, many anchors social distancing from their homes and in obvious need of their hair stylists, the investigator journalists are wearing masks when doing interviews with masked people on the street.
    When you force someone to do something it is in the American response to say H^^L NO, but if you ask or suggest that they do something then most often they do it. Let people decide for themselves.
    There is a lot of fake news on social media, one clip showed party goers packed on an ocean beach, in Arizona.

  87. Avatar Candace says:

    Ya, well, so far the polite “suggesting” and “asking” of a lot of folks in Shasta County to wear masks when with others in public spaces has fallen on deaf ears. It’s yet to be seen if that changes when businesses start to open up. I’m not holding my breath. I know where I live. As in other things, I hope I’m proven wrong.

  88. Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

    I keep forgetting Arizona is in lock down mode, Governor Ducey now says May 15th for unlock mode, and people are required to wear masks when my son and daughter both work like normal. One neighbor still goes to work at Goodwill, an essential business, and his wife works graveyard in healthcare. Another neighbor works as a graveyard dispatcher for a trucking company while her husband is a truck driver. They are heavy into bowling which is ironic that the golf courses are open but not the bowling alleys. Golf carts fill the streets. Our 17 year old granddaughter has an interview today at McDonalds. Our other Granddaughter works at Subway and her boyfriend works at Wendys.
    But everybody is wearing masks and Arizona is as red as Shasta County. President Trump will be coming for a visit May 5th.

  89. Avatar Candace says:

    Bruce, I was under the impression that Arizona is now considered a purple state and therefore a battleground state? Am I wrong?

    • Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

      Candace, Arizona is said to be a purple state but make no mistake it is ruled by Republicans. Our one Democrat Senator has been praised by Republicans and called a DINO by many Democrats because she works across the aisle. It is called a battleground state because the Democrats hope to flip Senator McSally’s seat to Democrat Mark Kelly but I don’t think that will happen. The DNC is so focused on defeating Trump that they are going to lose ground in the down ballot contests. My opinion.

  90. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    About 0.75% (3/4 of 1%, n = ~1,500) of Shasta County residents have been tested to date.

    According to Harvard’s COVID Tracking Project, the rate of testing needed to safely reopen—allowing for sufficient diagnosis and contact tracing to isolate the infected from the uninfected—is ~150 per 100,000 per day. For Shasta County (population ~180,000) that amounts to about 280 tests per day to meet the COVID Tracking Project guideline.

    On 27-Apr, 165 people in Shasta County were tested—all negative. That’s still about 115 shy of the target, but to me that isn’t much ground to make up.

    All in all, encouraging numbers for cautiously opening up sooner rather than later.

    • Avatar Ed Marek says:

      Post your sources, please.

      Article below suggests your numbers are way off, too low…by over 100 times…

      “A Harvard Plan To Use Massive COVID-19 Testing To Reopen the Economy
      This proposal might work, but it’s doubtful that our politicians and president are competent enough to pull it off.
      RONALD BAILEY | 4.20.2020 4:05 PM

      …How much testing would be required to implement their proposed roadmap? “We estimate that steady-state testing levels that would permit replacing collective stay-at-home orders as the main tool for disease control with a testing—tracing-and-warning—supported-isolation, or TTSI, methodology will eventually need to reach a capacity to test 2 to 6% of the population per day, or between 5 and 20 million people per day,” note the authors…”

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        Here’s my source for the 150 per 100,000 per day figure. Granted, it’s not an original source, but I have a reasonable level of confidence that the NY Times isn’t fake news.

        • Avatar Ed Marek says:


          The NYT is certainly capable of dumbing-down its source, which appears to me to be the essential case here. Read the short article I have quoted at the link below.

          IMO, The larger-than-expected increase in USA infections and fatalities in the last few weeks has also shifted the 500,000 number of tests per day you cited from the realm of “underestimate”, to shear fantasy.

          As I read it, if the USA death rate in ~2 weeks is about the same as today, the authors imply even two million tests per day would likely still be too few.

          “Why we need at least 500,000 tests per day to open the economy — and stay open

          Written on April 18, 2020.

          By Ashish K. Jha, Thomas Tsai and Benjamin Jacobson, HGHI

          Ubiquitous testing is essential to the nation’s ability to succeed with the planned phased opening of the economy and to stay open (we explain why we need testing in this post). In our analysis below, we estimate that the number of tests needed every day is, at a minimum, 500,000, though we likely need many more…

          Again, those assumptions may be too low, but they are the best we have. We suspect that the number of cases in the beginning of May will be much higher because the number of true deaths will be higher than 580 on May 15 (or because we learn that CFR is much lower than 1%)…

          The Bottom Line

          In every way we can think about this, 500,000 tests per day is probably too low. We are likely substantially under-counting deaths and, therefore, the number of cases is likely higher. If, on the other hand, a case fatality rate of 1% is too high, that means there is a larger pool of asymptomatic individuals who are possible carriers of the coronavirus. Even if the CFR is 0.8%, that adds a lot more cases. A 10% test positivity rate would miss a lot of infected folks – as would the approach to trace and test on average only 10 contacts per positive.

          Therefore, while we estimate that we should be testing between 500,000 and 600,000 people per day; this is clearly on the low side. We have, in trying to make these calculations, consistently tried to go low – make assumptions that lead us to need fewer tests. That’s why we are likely underestimating the number of tests needed…”


          • Avatar Ed Marek says:

            Sorry if my post last night was not clear.

            The link below is to (and the quotes in my comment above are from) the HGHI report which was misrepresented in the NYT story Steve used as a source.


            If you read both this report (and adjust the number of test upward as it itself states you need to) the gap between its recommendations for the minimum number of tests required and those of the Edmond J. Safra Center for Ethics at Harvard University close significantly, and are both in the order of millions of tests per day, despite the very different approaches the two studies took to reach their conclusions.

            This appears to be (quite literally) an academic debate, as our national policy today is to just ignore all rational standards for the minimum number of tests required, and “relax” our defenses to allow the pandemic to re-accelerate without any regard to the the amount of suffering and deaths this idiocy will inflict on the American People.

        • Avatar Anne Thrope says:

          Mr. Marek, you referred to a report from the Edmond J. Safra Center for Ethics at Harvard University. Mr. Towers referred to a report from the Harvard Global Health Institute. Both groups are from Harvard, both reports came within days of each other, but the conclusions differ by more than 10x.

    • Avatar Anne Thrope says:

      Two groups at Harvard University study the same question and reach conclusions that differ by over an order of magnitude yet we’re supposed to blindly trust the experts…

      PS: For the record I think everyone is equally expendable. Any of us will be lucky if 50 years after death we are briefly recalled when our great great grandchild makes a grade school family tree.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        I don’t think anyone is advocating for blind trust except for the hard-core Trump apple-polishers. Coming up with a reasonable number of daily tests that would minimize the recurrence of a blow-up isn’t an easy thing, and it’s not surprising that different analyses would come up with different targets if they’re seeking different levels of confidence. One set of public health experts might advocate erring on the side of extreme caution, another group for a more lax form of adaptive management. Economists, erring on the side of saving the economy, some other safety level. People worried about their business investments might advocate no caution at all. Everyone has their own set of values; nobody is “wrong.”

        I find your postscript puzzling. True, most of us will die and eventually be forgotten. What does that have to do with our experience? I don’t regard anyone in my family or friends as “expendable” because—true—our descendants will only have faint recollections of most of us, if that. I’m pretty sure your nihilistic worldview probably only speaks to those with Asperger’s syndrome or severe depression.

  91. Avatar Candace says:

    Steve, that was a quick turnaround from your Newsom “f’ no” about opening up earlier comment just yesterday. Did you see those stats today and it changed your mind or were you separating the two subjects of “opening” and “distancing” in the Letter to Newsom comment” and that’s why you’re saying “cautiously opening sooner than later”? I’m legit not being a smart-ass, I respect your opinion.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      I haven’t changed my mind about NorCal autonomy. Whatever increase in testing we’re seeing, it’s a state-level effort. I see almost zero commitment to mask-wearing, social distancing, and other reasonable measures around here. If I were Newsom, I couldn’t take NorCal’s “we got this, Guv” proposal seriously. Not from what I see.

  92. Avatar Larry Winter says:

    I sure hope we don’t lose the Trinity Journal.

    “Trinity County Planning Commissioners, Planning Department staff and members of the public trying to listen and comment on the phone were all clearly frustrated during last week’s attempt to conduct public hearings via teleconference over background noises of barking dogs, unrelated conversation and, at one point, screaming peacocks.”

  93. Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

    On AZ Family news every night, for those who need sources, COVI cases are rising in Arizona. So are the number of places that test for COVI. I think the two may be related.