Open Conversation for November 2019

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253 Responses

  1. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Welcome November! If only we could have some rain to put out the fires and settle the dust!

    Speaking of Dust, The Impeachment continues and the Orange Guy Will Be Impeached. Will he be removed from office is the question that needs to be asked not will he be impeached-he will.

    It appears at least on some level that he knows the walls are closing in. Selling off one of his most profitable properties and changing his full time residence to Florida shows us he very well may be setting himself up for a personal BK, OR he is trying to save one home for the model wife to live in while he tries to get out of Jail?

    • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

      President Trump is moving his residence from New York to Florida for the same reason many are fleeing high tax Blue states to Florida, no state income tax. Look at all the Californians fleeing to Nevada, same reason.

      • Avatar Common Sense says:

        I agree with you Bruce on your assessment. It’s for financial reasons. Surely his ego was hurt with the booing of the crowd when the camera found him at the baseball game but this is a business decision to save money! He’s Broke. He is a Billionaire on Paper only. Many of his properties are upside down. When no one would loan him a dime in the USA he had to go elsewhere. Deutsche Bank/Oligarchs etc.

        Happy Arizona Day!

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        Bruce,

        Trump fled citizenship of New York mainly as a temper tantrum because both the City and State of New York are attempting to hold him accountable for his sleazy/illegal business dealings and other efforts to escape accountability and transparency. He even admitted as much (although without taking any responsibility for his own actions, of course).

  2. Avatar Common Sense says:

    The Florida newspapers might be running something like this here shortly-

    Florida man, subject of FBI investigation, currently being targeted by grand jury in New York, history of associating with convicted felons, suspected of being illiterate, prone to incoherent rambling. Also goes by the names John Barron, John Miller, and David Dennison has recently made Florida his primary residence. Be on the lookout, his model wife stay mostly at home but you can for sure find him on his own golf course!

  3. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    Warren is now saying her Medicare For All plan will save families $11 Trillion because they won’t have to pay co-pays, out of network charges, other medical bills, co insurance costs. I am on Medicare and have to pay all that.

    • Avatar Larry Winter says:

      Medicare For All is really a misnomer since the proposals of Sanders and Warren are actually a single payer system, unlike the Medicare we have today.

    • Avatar Tim says:

      And Warren promptly destroys the only redeeming quality of medicare for all by paying for it via a payroll tax – in other words, further taxing companies for hiring Americans. Because outsourcing and automation aren’t big enough problems already, right?

      • Avatar Larry Winter says:

        What I’ve read is that companies already providing health insurance coverage will continue to pay 98% to the government instead of the insurance carrier. Employees would no longer have to contribute to the company plan. No new tax is added on. Exemptions for unionized companies and employers that don’t provide health care as a benefit.

        And I believe there is more than one redeeming quality, such as universal coverage.

        • Avatar Tim says:

          That is her claim – reminiscent of “Obamacare will save employers’ money” and “you can keep your health insurance if you like it.” It also includes a number of absurd assumptions like generating 40 times the bipartisan CBO’s revenue estimate for increasing tax compliance 35%.

          It also encourages larger/sophisticated companies to engage in corporate shenanigans like splitting themselves into two in order to show lower health care costs – adding the usual bureaucratic loophole complexity that favors corporations over small business owners.

          That’s all in addition to the 6% theft of wealth from those who have already paid taxes on their earnings and who had the audacity to not spend everything they earned. And, of course, paying doctors less…

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Tim — Bottom line, we could copy any of the socialized healthcare systems of a dozen other nations, and it’s be cheaper and better. Most of Europe is happier than we are with their systems, get superior care, and a at far less cost.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            Europe stands to lose the most if the US adopts medicare for all. Right now they benefit from the advances afforded by American capitalist medicine, but risk falling into the stagnant medical system that plagued Soviet Russia.

            That’s because the very first pharmaceutical pill or surgical technique costs an absolute fortune to develop but very little cost for the 2nd pill — and American consumers are the ones paying for that development.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            The United States exports barely over 10% of the world’s pharmaceuticals; the EU more than 50%. You would think that with all of our capitalistic advantages—the ripeness of our market incentives and our American initiative—it’d be the other way around. We should have ALL of the Big Pharma companies.

            Those EU pharmaceutical companies would take a hit, but I’m sure they’d soldier on.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            The US doesn’t make much of anything anymore, thanks in large part to hair-brained ideas like taxing companies for hiring American workers.

            But 6 out of the top 10 pharmaceutical companies are headquartered in the US (Pfizer, Johnson & Johnson, Merck, AbbVie, Bristol-Meyers Squibb, & Amgen). Switzerland has 2 (Roche & Novartis), France 1 (Sanofi), UK 1 (GlaxoSmithKline)… And despite making up only ~4% of the world’s population & 23% of the world’s GDP, the US pays 33% of pharmaceutical companies’ global revenue.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          Oh goodie… let’s give the government more money because they have a great record of not wasting and managing money well. Yeah, right… can’t wait to see this one.
          When candidate Trump said that Mexico will pay for the wall… nobody really believed that. Is this the same scenario? Nobody really believes this ridiculous $52 trillion plan is going to happen, right?

  4. Avatar Tim says:

    A 55-unit apartment complex in Sacramento is evicting all month-to-month tenants to mitigate the effects of California’s upcoming rent control laws.

    https://www.sacbee.com/opinion/editorials/article236886663.html

    • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

      Rental property owners have accumulated an obscene amount of wealth over the years by exploiting California’s housing shortage. They are nothing but extortionists.

      Lawmakers should have been able to foresee that some number of these thugs would conduct mass evictions so they can raise rents through the roof one last time before their extortionistic activities come to an end and the new (humane, common sense) rules kick in. I hope Boards of Supervisors everywhere in California will act quickly to put a stop to these basically retaliatory evictions.

    • Avatar Tim says:

      Of course this was foreseeable. The properties most affected by rent control are the Mom & Pop places that haven’t been raising rents as rapidly as they should have been and now get locked into low base rates. So they sell to corporations who immediately “fix the mismanagement” and raise rents back to market however they can. And that’s exactly what happened with this place in Sacramento.

      And do you think those Moms & Pops’ are going to invest that money into new California rentals? Not likely…

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        No Tim. In the case you linked the current owners entered into a sales agreement for that 54-unit complex a year ago – before the new rent control law was even proposed. They had misgivings about the sale almost immediately, and are now attempting to stop the sale in view of the corporate buyer’s heartless mass evictions. In fact he’s such a POS that he has apparently been threatening for quite some time to burn the buildings down if they didn’t go through with the sale on his terms.

        And how do you know they “haven’t raised the rents as much as they should”? Where is the rule that landlords have to keep extorting their tenants with vast rent increases every year so they can make ever more staggering profits? Is there a legitimate reason that they need to raised the rents more than 5 percent a year, after inflation?

        Also, the new law exempts new properties and those that are less than ten years old, so it won’t effect new construction for at least ten years.

        • Avatar Tim says:

          No, Rent Control was on the ballot last year (and the voters rejected it statewide). But California Democrats decided democracy wasn’t all that important and used their supermajority to push through an even stricter version. Obviously impending rent control preceded the sale or else the terms of the sale would not include a provision that lowered the sale amount for every unevicted tenant due to rent control going in effect in January.

          And I don’t know any landlords who are making “staggering profits” — that is just economically ignorant SJW-speak for “I know nothing about the costs of doing business, but I see them take in a lot of gross revenue.” Here’s a secret: apartments cost money to build or buy and any money you make in the future needs to be put into the perspective of what it cost to earn. Fact is, we have some of the lowest cap pates in the history of real estate investing: 3.75% for SF to 6.0% in the inland empire. https://www.cbre.us/research-and-reports/US-Multifamily-Cap-Rate-Survey-H1-2019

          Only a buffoon would call a 6% return excessive, but that’s where we are – petty jealousy turning into ignorant class warfare.

  5. Avatar Chris Solberg says:

    Ohhh I predict you will be hearing much more of this…… Paula White is now newest aid on Trumps prosperity gospel administration, explains why he moved to Florida with all the other mega wealthy televangelist ?

    “The Florida-based White’s website features a pitch for followers to purchase a $130 “Favor Seed” in order to help battle “an enemy of debt, depression, a job, or a health issue prevailing against you.”

    https://apnews.com/407fc27d402145ab9dcb62cc0d4bf40c

    Televangelist Paula White Hawks ‘Resurrection Life’ for $1,144 ‘Seed’

    “White then promised that in return for sowing the resurrection seed, donors would receive special prayer cloths that could possible cause special miracles, signs and wonders.”

    https://www.christianpost.com/news/televangelist-paula-white-hawks-resurrection-life-1144-dollar-seed.html

  6. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Now that the Trickle of the Mueller Report notes is hitting the media outlet Buzzfeed, the public will get a little sample of just “some” of the crimes committed and intent behind the disparaging words that lead one with half a brain to understand the- “Crimes against the United State of America” part are REAL.

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jasonleopold/mueller-report-secret-memos-1

  7. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    Thank goodness the Nats won the World Series. Now WaPo has something else on the front page instead of the latest Trump witch hunt.

    • Avatar Larry Winter says:

      Thank goodness the Nats won without Bryce Harper.

    • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

      The impeachment proceedings are a lot more important (and interesting, IMO).

      Funny that no one called it a “witch hunt” when Clinton was impeached just for lying about an affair – something Trump has done repeatedly, along with paying to cover up his affairs to influence an election, and lying about sexually abusing a countless number of women (even after he was caught ADMITTING those crimes)

      Yet an obviously demented sociopath and pathological liar who blatantly attempted to obstruct several investigations and provably abused the Office of the President to blackmail a foreign government into digging up non-existent dirt on his main political rival is the victim of a “witch hunt”?

      The REAL victims in this situation are the citizens of the U.S. Bankruptcies of small businesses have surged, entire industries are collapsing, numerous manufacturing plants have shut down, wages are falling, prices are rising, America’s international reputation is in tatters, and the Constitutional separation of church and state is being tossed out the window with every God-in-government fanatic Trump appoints to control the highest levels of our government.

      It’s doubtful that Republicans will do the right thing by impeaching this certifiable lunatic. However, I suspect they will pay at the ballot box for further throwing the country under the bus.

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        Patrecia, the latest economic news that came out this week is dampening your recession wishes. Overall, the report was far stronger than expected. Average hourly earnings continue to increase, up 3% from a year earlier. The unemployment rate, at 3.6%, remains near a 50-year low. In October, the labor market participation rate climbed to 63.3%, its highest level since August 2013. “American companies picked up the pace of hiring in October, suggesting the worst might be over for the economic slowdown, ” said Sal Guatieri, senior economist at BMO.
        What is interesting to me is that the percentage of total families at the lowest economic levels has fallen while the percent of middle class rises, which means millions of people have moved from the lower class to middle class.
        Democrats find themselves in a very sticky economic situation. The economy is Trump’s greatest asset, which would make it the Democrats’ greatest liability.

  8. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Potentially withholding federal funds to help the California Fire Services and Victims but it’s OK to Help Russia! Hopefully the few remaining hold outs will think about these things a little more. He has failed his Oath to Uphold the Constitution and look out for the American People.

    https://www.npr.org/2019/08/01/747196568/russia-says-trump-offered-to-help-putin-fight-forest-fires-in-siberia

  9. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    In Tucson today voters will vote on making Tucson a Sanctuary City. And low and behold most Democrats, including Mark Kelly the Democrat expected to beat McSally, oppose making Tucson a Sanctuary City. The Democrats say it is a needless law as Tucson is already an immigrant welcome city.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      It’s largely a symbolic gesture—Tucson could do the exact same thing without an official decree. Not saying it applies here, but sometimes it’s best just to keep your head down and do your thing.

      • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

        Tucson’s mayor, a Democrat, along with most Democrats oppose this bill. The Republicans obviously oppose this bill. Who is for it seems to be so called immigration advocates who don’t realize, according to the mayor, that if passed it will hurt Tucson. The problem the advocates point out is a state law passed two years ago that forces law enforcement to check immigration status of every one arrested. Tucson, like other cities, already has instructed their police not to comply with that law. It is similar to what many rural sheriffs in Colorado do when they refuse to enforce some gun restrictions. DC and state government can make laws but it is still up to the locals to comply.

  10. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    Here‘s a list the 86 books that Barak Obama recommended during his term in office. Noticeably absent are any of the many books written by himself and Michelle.

    https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/91208/86-books-barack-obama-has-recommended-during-his-presidency

    Trump has repeatedly recommended his own books. In his latest act of overtly sleazy corruption, he pimps Don Jr.’s new book via a tweet today, saying everyone should buy a copy. There’s a common theme among the few books that have Trump’s approval. They either focus on the President in a positive light or have been authored by Trump supporters, friends or anchors on his favorite news channel, Fox News.

    The smart money is on Trump not having read any of them, including the books he’s supposedly authored…as evidenced by his not knowing what’s in them.

  11. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    The prevailing theory is that the polygamous Mormon LeBaron family members slaughtered in Mexico we’re killed by Mexican cartels, either in a case of mistaken identity or in retribution for some affront.

    According to a friend who is an expert in fundamentalist cults, don’t be shocked if it turns out the killers were other polygamous Mormons. Don’t even be shocked if it turns out to be other LeBarons. These people have a long history of exercising “blood atonement.”

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ervil_LeBaron

    I won’t be

  12. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    And for good news which is rarely posted.
    In Arizona, Lynette Stant was named Arizona Teacher of the year which puts her into a chance at National Teacher of the year. She is a Third Grade teacher on the Salt River Reservation where she grew up and attended school herself. For anyone who knows how hazardous life is on Salt River, especially for women, this is a great accomplishment.

  13. Avatar Linda Cooper says:

    Sorry to shift the “open conversation,” however, wanted to know if it’s just me who is going to be following the governor’s race in Kentucky tonight. My fingers crossed.
    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/11/5/20948386/kentucky-governor-live-results

    • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

      Linda – Thank you for the link. This is an important race (Bevin is a worst-of the-worst God-in-government fanatic). If a Democrat can win in Kentucky there’s hope everywhere.

  14. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    Looks like the Democratic wave that swept through the country didn’t make it to the 1st District.
    In Tucson the vote to make Tucson a Sanctuary city was soundly defeated in a bipartisan vote.

    • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

      Bruce,

      Had Tucson attempted to implement sanctuary city status, Republic lawmakers in charge of state government would have with-held potentially hundreds of millions of dollars in shared state revenue. However, Democrats were overwhelmingly elected to local offices here.

      • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

        Patricia, the hundreds of millions of dollars was Federal, not state, money. And Tucson along with many other cities do not want the Sanctuary City label because the general consensus is that Sanctuary cities harbor criminals which is not true.

        • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

          Bruce, it was the Republican-controlled Arizona State government that passed a law threatening the loss of shared state revenue for any local municipality that doesn’t conform to state government’s right-wing agenda. However, I’m sure the Trump administration would have gotten in on the act as well.

          And all things considered, Elizabeth Betancourt had an impressive showing. That 45 percent of Shasta County voters voted for her means there’s definite hope in next year’s election for the same seat.

    • Avatar Candace says:

      I’m disappointed but not surprised that Dahle won. What I’m not disappointed in is how well Betancourt actually did in the 1st District. That fact alone is encouraging to me. Now I have to decide if I remove my Betancourt lawn sign or just leave it up for the 2020 election…

  15. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    And in women’s soccer a pregnant, due in April, Alex Morgan intends to play in the 2020 Olympics.

  16. Avatar Beverly Stafford says:

    I fear that yesterday’s local election is a prelude to the 2020 presidential election.

    • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

      The country in general is leaning Democratic. The local election results were not unexpected, and were just a reflection of the fact that most north state’s voters are uninformed and uneducated on a par with voters in the deep south. Elizabeth Betancourt would have cleaned Dahle’s clock in a more educated, less backward district.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      I wouldn’t take the District 1 assembly race to mean much—Mrs. Dahle had every advantage, and certainly didn’t over-perform.

      The telling results were in Virginia and Kentucky. The GOP is reaping the rewards of their fidelity to
      Orange Mussolini. People are increasingly sick of his degradation of the office, and his lickspittle sycophants are paying the price.

      By the way, maybe you’ve noticed you don’t hear much Trump trumpeting from the Dahles. Something tells me they ain’t stupid, even if they’re mostly simpatico with the thoroughly corrupt and bumbling Buffoon-in-Chief.

      • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

        While Mitt Romney continues his condemnation of Trump other used to be solid Trump supporters like Liz Cheney of Wyoming and Martha McSally of Arizona are expressing concerns about Trump. But like the anti Clinton vote elected Trump in 2016 the anti Democrat vote could reelect Trump in 2020. The window for Democrats is open only for a short time and they need to decide on a viable candidate now. Those who say there is plenty of time are going to be the ones crying “What Happened” after 2020.

      • Avatar Tim says:

        Virginia was no surprise; it is just a reflection of the rural to urban shift that has been going on for over 100 years.

        And don’t read too much into Kentucky. The governor was wildly unpopular. The Republican AG got something like 70,000 more votes than the governor – something that rarely happens in down ticket races.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      It could be Beverly…but more than likely it is just the fact that this district is majority GOP. But to go to Patrecia’s comment that north state voters are uninformed and uneducated as she calls those in the south couldn’t be further from the truth. My thoughts on this is the state of California is undeniably a mess right now. We are the laughing stock of the rest of the country. Our large cities are rampant with diseases that are only seen in 3rd world countries, half the homeless population of the country lives in our state, the state can’t keep power on to millions of citizens. My 91 year old father had to go to his home in Mexico to ensure he had power 24/7. So explain to me why we should elect another Democrat to state legislature? Democrats have been in charge of California since 1971 and has had a super majority for years now. What has that got us? It has got us the mess we are in right now. How was Bettencourt going to change any of this? You don’t think she would fall in line and vote 100% with the Democrats? Of course she would. Not one member of the GOP holds a state office. Give me one good reason I should have voted for Bettencourt. I guess if you want to keep the status quo…ok. But I certainly don’t.

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        Doug Cook,

        Everything in your comment is either completely untrue or deliberate misdirection.

        1. California is the most grossly over-populated state in the country. Rental property owners have exploited that situation by charging the highest rents in the country, which legitimate experts maintain is the primary reason for California’s homeless crisis. Any state can only accommodate so many people, and California reached its breaking point long ago.

        2. Democratic legislators are not responsible for the climate change-caused increase in the severity of fires (although they are the only ones trying to address it). Nor are they responsible for P G & E’s decision to shut off power and its other problems.

        As a watershed scientist Elizabeth Betancourt knows more about climate science and other resource-based problems facing the north state than a thousand Megan Dahles. And as a Democrat with an impressive background she would stand a much better chance of actually getting things done for the people she represents. Dahle’s backward God-in-government, everything-the-Democrats-do-is-wrong approach will accomplish nothing.

        3. Five of the last ten California governors have been Republicans, so Democrats haven’t had quite the free hand you claim.

        4. The only thing about California that makes it a “laughing stock” are backward far-right-wing areas like the north state. Redding in particular is a laughing stock for allowing a primitive international mega-cult to take over the city.

        Speaking of which – how long do you think I will be before Megan Dahle has her own Christians-only “faith and values” town hall meeting (which her husband did immediately) with Redding’s Bethel Mayor?

  17. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    Bruce — I’m afraid you’re willfully missing the point, which was never that other Mormon splinter sects or family members *probably* carried out this attack.

    The point was that intra-clan strife is a tenable hypothesis because of the family history of fraternal violence. Polygamy is among the least of their offenses.

    If it turns out that a Mexican cartel carried out the attack, it’s not unreasonable to view it as gang-vs-gang violence. This “beautiful family” (Trump’s words) may be physically attractive—likely why Trump took notice—but the clan is far from innocent.

    • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

      Steve, you and Tim both made claims that the LeBarons killed each other which was totally false. And the narrative not only you and Tim but others share is that this family deserved to die. I didn’t miss the point but you sure did.

      • Avatar J. Gutierrez says:

        They are right Bruce…I live in Mexico. I translated the following comment from a Mexican Youtube channel. Check out the website at the end of this comment and read the letter written by a LeBaron cult member serving 4 life sentences.

        “I do not justify the death of innocent children and women at all, the criminal groups are very cowardly, BUT THE LEADER OF THIS MORMON CULT, JOEL LEBARON SOTO AND MANY OF HIS CHILDREN SUCH AS BENJAMIN whom they executed in 2008, for being a narco and Julián Lebaron, and his brother Joel Lebaron and Daniel Lebaron whom they also executed for being a narco years ago in Sonora, have DECADES dedicated to drug trafficking, and that is well known by many people in the municipalities of Buenaventura and Galeana, Lebaron etc. In addition to committing many abuses and theft against many local people, such as the dispossession of land, exploitation of clandestine aquifer wells to the detriment of hundreds and hundreds of peasants etc. Even the mother of former deputy Alex Lebaron González, Ms. María González was detained for drug trafficking in the City of Juarez from approx 2002 to 2011. And since 2009 they have a federal police escort of about 50 agents and 12 artillery pieces granted by the federal government in the wake of Benjamin’s execution. The Lebaron family “victimized”, and committed countless agressions such as hitting people, disarming of the municipal policemen in Galeana, Lebaron even hit the municipal police etc. In fact, in the municipality of Galeana, the Lebaron family is known as “the Galeana Cartel” and they are repudiated by many people. 3 years ago Joel Lebaron was accused of ordering a hit on a man named Cruz because he was one of the few who did not leave their arbitrariness, and Mr. Cruz sued Joel Lebaron, one day before starting the trial for the lawsuit Mr. Cruz, was executed, and everyone knows that the intellectual author was JOEL. THEY WERE SOTO etc. And many more things that could be told of this Lebaron family and for which there are already several similar things that happen to them as a result of their Illicit activities.

        https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/cultbustersgalactica/church-of-the-lamb-of-god-ervil-lebaron-t126.html

        • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

          The claim that Steve and Tim made was that due to the violent history of the LaBaron family was their own family members may have committed the murders. That was proven false no matter how you spin it. And I am still seeing evidence from posters on here that the LaBarons deserved to die. That is what they allege about Trump all the time. You want true religious incited violence look no further than Bethel starting with the Williams brothers.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            I never said it was intra-family violence, just that this is a family known for violent conflicts. My underlying point was we shouldn’t be so hasty to put US counter insurgency forces in another foreign country (as Trump immediately offered).

            Another recent example of LeBaron family criminality & violence: https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/Ranchers-Clash-for-Water-in-Northern-Mexico-20180502-0016.html

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Bruce — I don’t believe I came within miles of suggesting that any of the LaBarons who were brutally murdered deserved their fate. If my unartful writing made you think that was my intent, I apologize.

            Also, if you think I have a particular beef with Mormons, I wish to dispel you of that notion. I believe it’s mainly other Christians who are sideways with Mormonism (to the extent that many reject it as a Christian denomination—I don’t). I personally don’t find Mormonism any more or less tenable than any other branch of Christianity.

          • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

            Steve, check your comment at 8:10 yesterday and tell me again what you didn’t say. According to your friend in the know, and Tim just jumped in like he always does with digging up dirt on innocent people. It is not okay to kill women and children because they belong to an unsavory family. Timothy McVeigh killed 19 children because they were in a Federal Building.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Bruce — Okay, I read my earlier post that you referenced. I didn’t say anything approaching “they deserved it.” I only suggested that we shouldn’t be surprised if it turns out to be fraternal
            violence, given the sect’s long history of fraternal violence.

    • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

      This discussion on the LeBaron cult has been interesting. When I heard the location of the ambush and that the victims were Mormon, I knew they had to be among the many polygamist Mormons who settled in northern Mexico decades ago. It’s probably improper to call them Mormons, since the Church of LDS doesn’t recognize them.

  18. Avatar Tim says:

    Speaking of the Williams brothers, does anyone else ever wonder if the summer of hate could have been avoided if Matthew had only dedicated his time to the development of his early squatty potty?

    “Tyler came out of the shower and Matthew made him put his feet up on this block so he could achieve the perfect bowel movement.” https://www.salon.com/1999/10/06/redding/

    • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

      That was during Matthew’s “purity diet” phase, and was actually a thing extremely religious people were into in the 90s. He didn’t come up with the idea himself. Mathew’s downfall was hooking up with the white supremacist Christian Identity movement in northern Idaho and taking its doctrines literally. He was a precursor to the alt-Right that came later, after he committed suicide in jail. Tyler will spend the rest of his life in prison–perhaps he’ll attempt an appeal on religious freedom grounds.

  19. Avatar Candace says:

    Tim, No, and in my opinion that’s easily the most offensive thing you’ve ever posted. Making light of ANYTHING to do with the William’s brothers and their heinous crime isn’t and will never be funny. If you think this is me wanting to silence your speech in reference to this particular subject you’d be correct; damn straight I do. Quite frankly, I’m appalled.

    • Avatar Tim says:

      I am sorry you find offensive the question of whether the successful launch of an invention to help people poo more efficiently could have prevented a violent local crime spree. Personally, I think it is comically tragic that something for which he was ridiculed – something that probably added to his isolation & ostracism likely fueling his extremism – would be a multi-million dollar idea 15 years later.

      Very few successful people go on violent crime sprees – even those harboring bigoted beliefs. Almost all are like Matthew and bounce from one menial job to another in obscurity.

      So I think maybe in another life – if he could have effectively sold himself/his idea or if we as a society could have accepted it back then – he could have just been another rich bigot.

      So aside from the elementary poo poo humor, I really don’t see where such an inquiry is offensive (unless you object to the idea of showing the slightest empathy for a heinous criminal).

    • R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

      Candace, for once I have to defend Tim. I think its always worth reminding people that Gary Matson and Winfield Mowder were killed by right-wing religious zealots who once attended Bethel. Tim is referencing an incident from the killers background related to a religious “purity diet” they were on. It was already a fad back then, including use of the stool, but the idea that white supremacists like the Williams can be tamed with a little free market success is kind of funny, in an ironic sort of way. The killers were steeped in the racist Christian Identity religion, which they took quite literally. One killed himself in jail, the other rots away in prison for the rest of his life. In the long run, it’s good to remind people what happened 20 years ago, which is what Tim has done.

      • Avatar Candace says:

        R.V. , Point taken. I’m painfully aware of what happened and why. Tim’s comment came out of left field, caught me by surprise and literally turned my stomach. I suppose my stomach turning is exactly your point.

  20. Avatar Candace says:

    Tim, you don’t sound sorry at all with your non-apology apology. Also, your final (meant to be a “gotcha” statement)? Just stop. Two lovely people were senselessly and cruelly murdered. Show some respect and common decency and grow the F up.

    • Avatar Tim says:

      I can feel bad that you feel bad and still stand behind my statement (which made no light of the murders – or the terrorizing of synagogues you neglected to mention).

      • Joanne Snyder Joanne Snyder says:

        It would be reasonable to suspect that religious training, rather than potty training would have given the Williams brothers the hateful motivation to kill innocent people and bomb places of worship. Your post just felt so awkward, unnecessary, and not a great opening to steering the CONVO in a new direction.

        • Avatar Tim says:

          Would it have been as awkward if Lee Harvey Oswald was the one who came up with the squatty potty (i.e. does the awkwardness stem from our “wretched waif’s” violence hitting closer to home)?

          I agree that extremist religious indoctrination certainly played a prominent role, but there are millions of religious extremists that don’t commit these acts of violence. Of the ~2,000,000 kids in homeschool, I reckon 10% or 200,000 are ultra Christian fundamentalists and probably 1% or 20,000 are extremists. Even if 0.1% that’s still 2,000 kids every year that aren’t going on killing/arson sprees…

          It seems more likely to me that this is an “outlier” issue. You not only have to be in the extreme 1% or 0.1% in religious views, you also need to be in the bottom 1% in societal recognition and probably in the extreme percentage of a few other factors too.

          If the outlier hypothesis is true, you could prevent the violence by breaking just 1 of the factors (in this case societal recognition/fame/fortune).

    • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

      This is why those who post links to you/tube or Wiki are not taken serious by the majority of readers on any site. Like this link they can be manipulated to say anything, which is usually untrue, by the creator.

      • Avatar Beverly Stafford says:

        But Bruce, if it’s on the Internet, it MUST be true! Sheesh, whatever became of original thinking? I’ve concluded that with very little effort, one can find anything on the Internet that supports whatever crackpot notion a person has.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      Well, THAT was an interesting read. A little hard to interpret through the thick and acrid smoke of anger and self-righteousness, but near as I can tell Chris is peeved that he doesn’t have total editorial control over what R.V. writes concerning the homeless.

      I note also that R.V uses his own name and owns what he writes. Not so, the blogger/commenter.

  21. Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

    Republicans are now trying to make the impeachment inquiry all about the original whistle-blower, despite the fact that a nearly endless series of credible witnesses have provided information that goes far beyond what the whistle-blower could provide. They apparently think they can pretend all the others don’t exist by placing all the focus on the one witness who remains anonymous. What an act of desperation.

  22. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    To change to something really important. Cam Newton is expected to be released by the Panthers. Will one of the QB starved teams pick him up or will Cam fade into Netherworld along with RGIII, Johnny Football and Kap?

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      Nobody in their right mind is going to pay Cam what he thinks he’s worth. He had one phenomenal rookie season in which his team went to the Super Bowl and he was league MVP.

      His performance since then suggests that it took the league a year to watch film and figure out what to do with his pass-or-run athleticism, and he and the Panthers failed to keep pace in the arms race. Plus, he hasn’t finished a season in ages.

      Buh bye.

  23. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    Watching Sen. Lindsey Graham present his bizarre argument that Trump and his WH toadies are too stupid and incompetent to pull off extorting a beneficiary of U.S. military aid in exchange for dirt on a political foe actually made feel a little queasy.

    That’s the argument GOP senators are gonna fall back on? You’re not guilty of a crime if you’re an impetuous, bumbling idiot? Guess it’s time to release four-fifths of the nation’s prison population

    • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

      Yet another example of Trump’s corruption and sociopathy. He obviously imagines that the rest of the world exists just to serve him. I’d think that all the flag-waving “patriots” in his support base would be up in arms over this flagrant theft from veterans:

      https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/president-trump-ordered-to-pay-dollar2m-to-group-of-nonprofits-as-part-of-civil-lawsuit/ar-BBWqpPt?ocid=spartandhp

    • Avatar Tim says:

      Hunter Biden is a political foe?

      • Avatar Larry Winter says:

        From the infamous phone call, “Trump soon adds: “The other thing: There’s a lot of talk about Biden’s son, that Biden stopped the prosecution, and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can so with the Attorney General would be great.””

        It’s not about Biden’s son, the conspiracy theory that was being spread was that Joe Biden, as Vice President, stopped the prosecution.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        Tim — I think you’re being purposefully obtuse.

        You know that Trump requested Ukraine investigate both father and son Biden.

        You know that Trump has zero interest in Hunter save how he can use Hunter to damage Joe.

        You know that Trump has zero interest in quelling Ukrainian corruption. (LOL)

        And most of all, you know that Trump has less than zero problem with witless, inexperienced family members exercising nepotistic opportunism.

        You can play dumb, but I’m not buying what you’re selling.

        • Avatar Tim says:

          Trump didn’t request the Ukraine investigate Joe Biden. He requested they investigate Hunter Biden and to investigate why the initial investigation was abruptly closed (implying that Joe may have pulled strings).

          Obviously the Ukrainians can’t do much to investigate Joe in the US, but they can investigate those in the Ukraine who shut things down to see if corruption was involved.

          There is absolutely nothing illegal about this.

          • Avatar Larry Winter says:

            The prosecutor that Biden helped get fired wasn’t investigating Burisma, the company his son went to work for. Can you prove otherwise since I haven’t seen evidence to the contrary.

            You’re just repeating a conspiracy theory.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            Whether the conspiracy is true makes no difference. Trump asked them to investigate specific allegations. He said “I’ve heard this, can you look into it?” He did not tell the Ukrainians to fabricate false evidence to substantiate a conspiracy. And he certainly did not tell them to search for any dirt whatsoever on Joe Biden and compile it into a dossier (like Clinton).

            This is a Yuge nothingburger.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Interesting that at the time, the State Dept brought up concerns about Hunter becoming a board member of the Ukraine oil company, especially because VP Biden was the point man on Ukraine. The decision to inform Biden about this concerns was dropped because of the death of his other son. I can imagine what Patrecia would say if Trump Jr was given a similar position

        • Avatar Tim says:

          Anyone remember when the Hillary campaign paid a foreign intelligence officer for opposition research on Trump?

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Tim,

            You’re grasping for excuses. A lot of the Steele dossier has proven to be true (and of course a bunch of Trump’s close political associates are now sitting in prison or facing prosecution).

            And surely you can tell the difference between a sitting president who abuses the power of his office by blackmailing a foreign government to dig up non-existent dirt on a main political rival and a candidate who contributes to an investigation to look into Trump’s endless connections to Russia.

            https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/389522-clapper-more-and-more-of-steele-dossier-proving-to-be-true

          • Avatar Larry Winter says:

            I don’t remember anybody providing any evidence that there was a payment from the campaign directly to a foreign intelligence officer. Can you?

          • Avatar Tim says:

            Larry: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/24/us/politics/clinton-dnc-russia-dossier.html

            Patrecia: Trump didn’t ask the Ukrainians to “dig up dirt” on Joe Biden. He asked them to investigate a specific claim.

          • Avatar Larry Winter says:

            “Anyone remember when the Hillary campaign paid a foreign intelligence officer for opposition research on Trump?”

            “Fusion GPS hired Christopher Steele, a respected former British spy with extensive experience in Russia, to conduct research into any possible connections between Mr. Trump, his businesses, campaign team and Russia.”

            I know this seems like I’m splitting hairs, but so does the law. What you suggest, using Republican talking points, is that the Clinton campaign actively sought and paid Steele directly, which would put them in the same legal trouble that Trump is in now.
            But that’s not the case, is it? Can you explain why I’m wrong?

          • Avatar Larry Winter says:

            Trump asked them to investigate. This was the response they were given.

            “Yuri Lutsenko said while he was Ukraine’s prosecutor general he told Rudolph W. Giuliani that he would be happy to cooperate if the FBI or other U.S. authorities began their own investigation of the former vice president and his son Hunter but insisted they had not broken any Ukrainian laws to his knowledge.”

            I don’t like Hilary one bit but to make out what Trump has done is defensible because of the things you claim is a pretty weak argument. You’re stretching the truth to make an apple look like an orange in order to claim equivalency.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Tim,

            There was no legitimate claim. A massively corrupt Ukraine state prosecutor (who is now gone in response to demands from a whole slew of world leaders – not just Joe Biden) went after the company Hunter Biden served on the Board of Directors for. Hunter Biden was never an object of that investigation, which was dropped due to lack of evidence that there was anything illegal going on. This was very much a manufactured claim on Trump’s part.

            On the other hand, investigating Trump’s obvious, numerous Russian connections (which I believe some of Trump’s political cohorts are now sitting in prison for trying to cover up) is a heck of a lot more legitimate.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Tim — Now I’m just embarrassed for you. You’re either being nakedly dishonest, or flat-out foolish.

            Nobody is saying that the Trump campaign can’t conduct opposition research.

            The DNC—not Clinton—hired Fusion GPS. Fusion in turn hired Christopher Steele, a RETIRED British intelligence officer freelancing as an investigator.

            Neither Clinton, the DNC, Fusion, nor Steele tried to extort campaign help from a foreign power by withholding the release of military aid.

            The GOP’s argument is now this:

            1. Team Trump is too incompetent to pull off a quid pro quo, even if it’s obvious that was the intent. (The utterly ridiculous legal theory that if you’re too stupid to successfully pull off a crime, you’re innocent.)

            2. The president of Ukraine said there wasn’t a quid pro quo. (Of course he said that—he knows what being strong-armed is about. To say anything else would have put the quid pro quo in jeopardy.)

          • Avatar Tim says:

            Larry, if your point is that Hillary’s use of an intermediary made her transaction technically legal, then I’ll concede that possibility (I haven’t looked that closely at the nuances of campaign finance laws, but doubtless her campaign had).

            But a similar technicality exists in that Trump did not ask for something that would be materially valuable to his campaign. Trump asked for an investigation and, as Patrecia so eagerly points out, the investigation found no evidence of corruption on the part of Joe Biden. Thus it provided nothing of value to Trump’s campaign.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Tim sez: “Thus (the investigation of Biden) provided nothing of value to Trump’s campaign.”

            Brilliant new legal theory. If you hold someone up at gunpoint but it turns out their wallet is empty, it’s not a crime.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            If by “holding at gunpoint” you mean “talking about an aid package.”

          • Avatar Larry Winter says:

            Tim, Trump’s call to the new President of Ukraine asking for a favor linked to military aid was to look into the Bidens happened AFTER the prosecutor said young Biden didn’t break any laws. All Trump wanted was for the President of Ukraine to publicly announce an investigation into the allegation that had already been proven wrong.
            The VALUE that Trump wanted was the Ukrainian President’s public announcement to spread doubt in the American electorate.

            Trump engaged in an attempt to spread disinformation about his political rival from a foreign government. Quid pro quo notwithstanding.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            Then your timing is problematic: Biden is not yet the nominee.

          • Avatar Larry Winter says:

            No Tim, your arguments are problematic. Biden was the front-runner of the opposing Party at the time.

            Why do I need to continue to spell out these well known facts to you?
            I ask myself.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            Sure, I get it, but he’s not the nominee. Announcing an investigation that Trump knew to be fruitless just for the temporary PR wouldn’t help Trump next year during the actual campaign.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Tim — So you *are* defending Trump on the basis that withholding aid to Ukraine until they ponied up on Biden isn’t a problem because it was breathlessly stupid and useless?

            Wow. You’ve never struck me as a Fox News parrot, ‘til now. Unless…..

            Doug, what have you done with Tim?

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            President Bush once said, “.. Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples – while judging ourselves by our best intentions…” We can agree that it was an awkward phone call… as are many of President Trump’s utterings. The question is, is this worthy of being impeached over. Of course not. As the quote above states, Democrats were quite willing to ignore the corruption of Hillary because they attribute to her ‘ the best intentions’. Democrats came up with a verdict about the president on Jan 20 2017, and have been searching for a crime ever since. Remember when Schiff swore that he had absolute proof of collusion? I’ll ask again…there won’t be 20 GOP senators flipping to convict the president. So what is the end game? Come 2020, the Democrats will have a failed impeachment, Pelosi’s Congress will have no major legislation, immigration crisis ignored. The Democrats hollered about the humanitarian crisis at the border…but impeachment has sucked all the oxygen out of the room, nobody cares anymore. It’s Trump 24/7. Why is this going on? Because the Democrats came up with the worst candidates since Hillary.. they are so bad that Secy Clinton is probably going to jump into the race. If you want to get Trump out of office, find someone that can beat him.

          • Avatar Larry Winter says:

            Doug, the phone call is just part of the conspiracy. He had a whole network of people working on getting an investigation going in return for “favors”.

  24. Avatar Beverly Stafford says:

    I’m beginning to think there is a PG&E Syndrome. AT&T has had a company-wide problem with voice mail for something like two months. Messages can be left, but they can’t be accessed. And today, I was in Office Depot which has a rewards program on which I have several dollars waiting to be used against a purchase. But the server can’t be accessed; so the rewards can’t be used. And TMC hasn’t been able to figure out why closed captions are no longer showing on their movies even though the movies are captioned. When I wrote to ask when captions will be restored, the answer was that there has been a problem for two months, and they haven’t figured out a solution.

  25. Avatar Tim says:

    A California woman has been charged with murder after delivering a stillborn three days after using meth: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/woman-charged-murder-after-delivering-stillborn-baby-meth-its-system-n1078266

    She could have avoided the murder charge in California by having a late term abortion (which would even have been paid by Medicare).

    • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

      Tim,

      Wrong. No abortion is paid for by the government unless it is provably the result of rape or incest (complete with police report), or the woman’s life is endangered and it’s deemed “medically necessary”. No doctor is going to perform a so-called “late term abortion” on a lark (all right-wing propaganda aside).

      The situation you linked could have been worse. Had the baby lived it would likely be suffering from fetal drug syndrome, which would have sentenced it to a lifetime of severe disability (those children often wind up being bounced from one foster home to another because taking care of them is a monumental task, and their ultimate destinations are typically prisons, mental institutions, chronic homelessness, and/or suicide). That makes a good case for the easy availability of free birth control and early abortion

      https://www.aimwomenscenter.com/does-medicaid-cover-abortion-costs/

        • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

          I can’t read your link, since it requires a program I don’t have on this computer. However, California’s limitations on government-funded abortion are addressed in my link above (Medi-cal is just what California calls its version of Medicaid).

          • Avatar Tim says:

            Your link is from a no-name third party. My link is to a Microsoft Word document from Medi-Cal’s own site that says:

            “The Medi-Cal program covers abortion performed as a physician service.

            · Abortion is a covered benefit regardless of the gestational age of the fetus.

            · Medical justification and authorization for abortion are not required.

            · Inpatient hospitalization for the performance of an abortion requires prior authorization under the same criteria as other medical procedures (see California Code of Regulations [CCR],Title 22, Section 51327).”

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Tim,

            You are being deliberately disingenuous. Your incomplete, out-of-context cut and paste doesn’t mean what you’re implying it means. California and every other state has to comply with the very narrow federal limitations on government-funded abortions, and federal law doesn’t change from state to state.

            And since your case involves a meth addict, it’s unlikely she has several thousand dollars laying around for a late term abortion, as well as travel and lodging expenses to a place where the few remaining doctors who actually perform them are located.

            https://www.guttmacher.org/state-policy/explore/state-funding-abortion-under-medicaid

          • Avatar Tim says:

            California, and not the federal government, pays for elective abortions through Medi-Cal. No federal funds are used. I did make a mistake in saying “medicare” – it is Medi-Cal (again not medicare or medicaid).

            I provided a link to Medi-Cal’s own website, yet you continue to post 3rd party links that say the same thing: the federal government does not pay for elective abortions. That is not in dispute. California does. Since you are in the minority of internet users unable to open a Microsoft Word document, here is a link to a third party pdf which reiterates that Medi-Cal does provide free abortions to its enrollees:
            https://accesswhj.org/sites/default/files/docs/NHeLP-CAAbortionCoverageFactSheet-Web.pdf

            And just in case you are incapable of opening a pdf, here is the copied section:

            “2. When is abortion covered under Medi-Cal?

            California covers abortion services for all Medi-Cal enrollees. The state pays for all abortion services using state-only funds. Medi-Cal enrollees are not charged co-insurance or co-payments, nor do they need to pay any out-of-pocket costs. Medi-Cal enrollees may obtain an abortion without cost sharing, with the exception of enrollees who have Share of Cost Medi-Cal. Share of Cost Medi-Cal enrollees must pay a monthly amount toward their medical expenses, similar to a private insurance plan’s out-of-pocket deductible. The state prohibits Medi-Cal managed care plans from requiring medical justification for an abortion.”

  26. Avatar Common Sense says:

    The judge calls it the way it is. Now if all the others would find their golf balls!

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/11/08/judge-says-trump-violates-democratic-norms-judiciary-speech/

    • Avatar Tim says:

      pot meet kettle. This judge just proves Trump’s point…

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        Trump’s point? That we should lurch as quickly as possible away from democracy and embrace fascism? That point?

        The judge’s concerns about preserving the constitutional role of the federal courts when the POTUS is trying to de-legitimize them is an expression of genuine fear, shared by many.

        • Avatar Tim says:

          Judges should not be democratic. We’re a republic – judges should rule impartially based on the law – not the shifting whims of ignorant masses unable to muster the supermajorities necessary to change the constitution.

          And this judge is clearly not impartial. He’s also living in la-la land if he doesn’t recognize the outcome often depends on which president appointed the judge assigned to the case.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Tim,

            Name any other president who has accused an American-born federal judge of ruling against him just because the judge’s family is of Mexican heritage (in a case that had nothing to do with immigration, Hispanics, etc.), or any of the other outrageous insults Trump has hurled at judges who don’t rule his way.

            Of course we have a unique situation here in that this country has never had a president who is involved in so many corrupt and illegal activities.

            And in my opinion the will of the truly “ignorant masses” is being carried out by Trump’s judicial appointees. We’ll be seeing (and are already seeing to a notable extent) the loss of hard-won basic rights for various groups Trump’s backward, bible-banging support base doesn’t approve of.

  27. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Thanks to all Veterans out there! Freedom isn’t free. There was and still is, a huge cost for Freedom!

    http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/11/trump-ordered-to-pay-usd2-million-over-fishy-fundraiser.html

  28. Avatar Tim says:

    Meet Northern California’s Criminal Cops:

    Shasta County:

    Bryan Robert Benson was an Anderson PD officer convicted of raping an arrestee. He was initially sentenced to just 364 days in jail by the county court before the Feds added additional charges and sentenced him to 5 years.

    Justin Patrick Duval is a Redding PD officer who was arrested & convicted of DUI in 2018. According to the Sacramento Bee, he is still employed as an officer.

    Eric Albert Lamanna was a retired Mt Shasta PD sergeant who was arrested after a drunken armed standoff at his home with children present. Initially charged with 5 felonies, he was convicted of 2 misdemeanors.

    Matthew Robert Stoker was a Redding PD officer when he was arrested & convicted of DUI in 2015. He continued to receive pay into 2016.

    Tehama County:

    Steven Michael Uribe was a Red Bluff PD officer when he was charged & later convicted of DUI & felony evasion in 2016.

    Siskiyou County:

    Adan Cardona was a Tulelake PD officer when he was charged a slew of crimes including lewd acts against multiple victims in 2009. He was convicted of witness intimidation & burglary.

    Humboldt County:

    Michael Joseph Campbell was a Humboldt Sheriff’s Deputy when his passenger died in an off duty DUI crash in 2012. He was sentenced to 1 year.

    Corey Jordan Fisher was a Humboldt Corrections officer accused of molesting children and assaulting inmates in 2017. He was convicted of molestation and sentenced to 106 years.

    Kevin David Harralson was a Rio Dell PD officer arrested for domestic violence in 2014. He had multiple previous domestic violence incidents dating to the 90’s, but this 2014 incident finally resulted in a conviction for false imprisonment in 2017.

    Daniel Jason Kalis was a Eureka PD officer arrested in 2011 for vandalism, heroin possession, false imprisonment, unauthorized disclosure of records, etc. He was sentenced to probation.

    Anthony Lagarda was a Humboldt Sheriff’s Deputy arrested for a DUI crash & false statements in 2015. He was convicted of reckless driving and filing a false report of a stolen vehicle.

    Benjamin Paul Omey was a Eureka PD officer charged with obstruction & battery in 2010. He was convicted of fighting in a public place.

    Butte County:

    Patrick Feaster was on duty as a Paradise PD officer when he shot & killed a man with a negligent discharge from his service weapon. He was sentenced to 180 days for involuntary manslaughter.

    Timothy Hill was a Butte County corrections officer when he exposed himself to and groped a female inmate. He resigned and was sentenced to 30 days.

    Earl William Klapperich was a Butte Sheriff’s Deputy when he solicited a minor for sex in 2011. He was sentenced to 3 1/2 years.

    Todd Lopez was a Chico PD officer when he was arrested for battery while off duty at a Casino in 2011. He pled guilty.

    Kenneth Ramey is a Butte Sheriff’s Deputy who was convicted of a DUI crash in 2018. He was sentenced to probation and kept his job.

    Joshua Andrew Woodby was an Oroville Police officer when convicted of DUI with a minor passenger in 2017.

    Ryan Oliver Woolery was a Butte County corrections officer when arrested for having sex with a female inmate in 2016. He was sentenced to 90 days.

    Colusa County:

    Dustin Alvin Stephenson was a 26 year-old Williams Police Officer arrested for breaking into the home of 3 female Chico State students at 3am with nearly 3x the legal blood alcohol content in 2009. He pled to misdemeanor vandalism and was sentenced to 15 days in a deal allowing him to reenlist in the Navy.

    https://www.sacbee.com/news/investigations/article237207498.html

  29. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    You left out the local cop who left his service revolver where his 2-year-old toddler son got ahold of it and shot himself dead. He spent 0 days in jail because he was charged with 0 crimes. He also kept his job. The DA cited an obscure state law that says if your kid dies accidentally while handling a gun you negligently left unsecured, you needn’t be charged with a crime…the kid’s death is punishment enough.

    I’ll never forget that incident, because around the same time a local mom lost control of her car while reaching for her ringing cell phone. The car rolled, killing her daughter who was not wearing a seat belt in the back seat. The mom was convicted of vehicular manslaughter and spent hard time in prison.

    I’m not arguing that the cop should have spent time in prison, but the inequity of accountability with these two cases still galls me. And he got to keep his job? Jesus Herbert Christ in a sidecar.

    • Avatar Tim says:

      I presume you’re talking about RPD Officer Jason Rhoads, whose 4 year old son climbed up in Rhoads’ closet, found his gun on the top shelf, and accidentally killed himself in 2008. This incident wasn’t in the Sac Bee’s database because it was over 10 years old and no charges were filed. Rhoads remained with RPD and has had an exemplary record, earning merit award in 2010 and officer of the year in 2014.

      On the other hand, in 2014 Compton school resource officer Donte Green was convicted of child endangerment when he left his 7 year old daughter unattended in his car and she found & discharged a weapon towards school.

      Maybe there was some racial bias in the prosecution of those two cases or maybe the Redding DA was more cop/gun friendly. Or maybe a 4 year old climbing to the top shelf of his parents’ bedroom closet while at home with his mother wasn’t as foreseeably dangerous as a 7 year old left alone in a car with a loaded gun (or a mother recklessly talking on the cell phone while driving with unbuckled child).

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        One of the pertinent facts in that case is that the kid had been known to climb up and get stuff off of that shelf. And again, my point isn’t that I’d want Biblical retribution inflicted upon the officer. It’s the double standard—the system bending over backwards when the offender is a cop, with others getting far harsher punishment for similar misdeeds.

        Coincidentally, 10 minutes ago I was listening to a police union leader on NPR who wants to get rid of the law banning people convicted of domestic abuse of carrying guns, specifically because of how that affects the livelihoods of wife-beater cops.

        • Avatar Tim says:

          Here is the DA’s report: https://www.co.shasta.ca.us/docs/libraries/district-attorney-docs/pr-2008/120508-pr-Rhoads.pdf

          Basically the law allowed the DA the discretion to decline to prosecute if the victim was the child of the responsible parties as long as gross negligence was not involved. Keeping the firearm on a 6′ shelf in a closet off limits to the kids may have been negligent, but wasn’t grossly negligent. So this was not a case of some special police exemption.

          PS: If RPD issued traditional DA/SA pistols like the Beretta 92fs, 4 year old Hunter probably would not have been strong enough to pull the ~12 lb trigger the required ~1 inch (let alone disengage the safety). But thanks in large part to sex discrimination lawsuits over the disparate impacts of firearm qualifications throughout the 80s & 90s, police departments began issuing guns with no external safeties and shorter, lighter triggers like the ~6 lb ~1/4 inch trigger on that Glock 22.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Basically the law allowed the DA the discretion to decline to prosecute if the victim was the child of a cop.

            There. Fixed it.

            How is leaving a loaded gun unsecured on a shelf that the kid has climbed to before not gross negligence? It’s simply a different set of rules if your LE.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            Incorrect. Any parent who loses their own child is subject to the DA’s discretion as long as their actions weren’t grossly negligent. There is a separate exemption for LEO, but it did not apply since Rhoads was not at home nor acting in his capacity as a peace officer.

            From the link I posted above:

            “THE LAW

            The potential charge most applicable to this case is called criminal storage of a firearm in the first degree under Penal Code Section 12035(b)(1). The law related to the storage of firearms is unique in a number of ways which will become clear throughout this section.

            The gist of the law is that it is illegal for someone to keep a loaded firearm within premises under his control and he knows or reasonably should know that a child is likely to gain access to the firearm without permission and the child obtains the weapon and causes death to himself or others.

            However, the law creates a number of exceptions to the rule. Although there is one that relates to peace officers, it is not applicable in this case. The only exception that could possibly apply would be found at Penal Code Section 12035(c)(2) which states that this law does not apply if “The firearm is kept in a locked container or in a location that a reasonable person would believe to be secure.”

            The crime can be charged as a misdemeanor or a felony and carries up to 3 years in state prison plus fines if charged as a felony.

            Normally the analysis would end there. However, the code goes on to create additional considerations for parent suspects who lost their own child in the accidental shooting such as in this case. The legislature specifically states that the District Attorney shall consider the impact of losing the
            child before filing charges. In addition, the code specifically tells the District Attorney what types of such cases the legislature intended to be charged as crimes under this code section. It states: “It is the Legislature’s intent that a parent or guardian of a child who is injured or who dies as the result of an accidental shooting shall be prosecuted only in those instances in which the parent or guardian behaved in a grossly negligent manner or where similarly egregious circumstances exist.” (Penal Code Section 12035(e)) “Gross negligence” is defined as involving “…more than ordinary carelessness, inattention, or mistake in judgment.”

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            My point was the disparity between how laws are applied to cops and how they’re applied to other citizens, not the intent of the law. I have already stated that I don’t pine for more punishment than was given. I’m just saying that his loss was no greater than that of the mom who reached for her cell phone.

            From the report you linked:

            A person acts with gross negligence when:
            1. he or she acts in a reckless way that creates a high risk of death or great bodily injury, and
            2. a reasonable person would have known that acting in that way could create such a risk.

            He left a loaded gun in a place his kids were known to access even though they knew they weren’t supposed to there. Further, there was another loaded and unsecured gun in a fanny sack in the garage. So again I ask: How the FUCK is that not gross negligence, but the mom reaching for her ringing cellphone is guilty of vehicular manslaughter due to her negligence?

            I’ll admit it’s not just cops who benefit. Our area’s gun owners in general enjoy the benefit of conservatives being loath to harshly punish gun negligence. There was another local case of a great-grandfather leaving a loaded gun next to his bed. His 3-year-old great-grandson found the gun and shot himself in the head. The stiffest part of the great-grandfather’s penalty was that he had to give up his gun collection. He had the gall to contest that decision because he wanted to keep his black powder rifles.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            You’ll get no argument from me that cops often benefit from the “brass pass” – particularly when it comes to alcohol offenses & domestic disputes ordinarily carrying penalties that would disqualify the average American subject from owning a firearm. But I don’t think this case qualifies.

            Gross negligence is more than misjudgement. Gross negligence is speeding 20 over through a construction zone while on a cell phone with an unbuckled child in the car. Misjudgement is leaving a loaded firearm on a 6′ high shelf in a master bedroom off limits to kids supposedly under the direct supervision of their mother, even though the kids have in the past accessed a coin jar on a 4′ high shelf in that same closet.

            The misjudgement should also be weighed against the standards of the time in which it occurred. Keeping a loaded firearm on a 6′ high shelf in a master closet was pretty normal in the 1990s, considered not the best practice in the 00’s, and is unacceptable today. Driving while on a cell phone was normal in the 90s, not the best practice in the 00’s, and unacceptable today. However, speeding through a construction zone AND leaving your child unbuckled were totally unacceptable even in the 90s.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Okay boomer.

            Just kidding. You’re still skirting the discrepancy issue. Sure, the mom was grossly negligent and her negligence resulted in the death of her daughter. By the logic of the law we’ve both cited regarding gun negligence resulting in the death of a child, hasn’t she suffered enough? But only gun owners get that hall pass—she went to prison.

            You can argue all you want that the cop wasn’t grossly negligent, but that’ll continue to fall on deaf ears. Like I said, in addition to the gun on the shelf, there was another loaded and unsecured gun in the garage. That’s at least as negligent as that mom’s behavior. I’m in my 60s, so I was around in the 90s, and leaving unsecured guns where kids could get them was not the norm. It was as reckless then as it is now.

            In addition to the dad taking advantage of the brass pass (that’s what it was, regardless of whether or not he was on duty), I also mentioned the reluctance of an elected DA to harshly punish *anyone* for gun-related accidents in these parts…cuz iss jess them libs tryna punish us fer havin’ guns.

            I’ll throw another factor into the mix: In conservative communities, moms who eff up get punished more severely than dads who eff up.

          • Avatar Tim says:

            I can understand if your point is Mom’s sentence (serving ~2 of 5 years) was excessive rather than that she deserved the same punishment as the cop.

            Dad didn’t leave his gun on the floor or the coffee table or even the back of a kitchen counter. He placed it on what he believed to be an inaccessible shelf in a closet off limits to the kids while his kids were under the direct supervision of their mother. He clearly made an (unsuccessful) attempt to mitigate the risks. His was an error in judgement, not a total disregard for safety.

            What consideration did that reckless driver give her child, aside from maybe making sure the car door was closed? She didn’t even ensure her child wore a seat belt before speeding 20 over in a construction zone while on a cell phone. And, on top of that, she was putting the general public in danger with her driving.

            Her actions were the direct & only cause of death — there was no other blame to go around. Compare that to a child who went where he knew he wasn’t supposed to combined with a mother who failed to give supervising her full attention combined with the misjudgement of a father in thinking secure a 6′ shelf in a closed closet far away from where the kids should ever be (I am assuming the child had no access to the garage, which I would presume to be loaded with far many more dangers than just a gun).

            I don’t think sexual discrimination was at play either. Had the cop been a female and the driver been a male I would expect the same outcome (or maybe even things to be worse for a reckless driving dad)

  30. Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

    I find it interesting that Republicans voted overwhelmingly to impeach Bill Clinton for something that was NOTHING compared to Trump’s crimes and attempted crimes, which rabid Trump sychophants like Doug Cook incredibly describe as just “awkward”.

    We’ve got Trump dead-to-rights on trying to blackmail a foreign government into digging up non-existent dirt on a main political rival. In addition, the Mueller Report makes an extremely good case for repeated efforts to obstruct, and doesn’t even rule out collusion.

    The Trump presidency has been a disaster from the beginning. Investigators can’t keep up with his constant barrage of sleazy and likely illegal activities – before they can get to the bottom of one thing he does something even worse. Meanwhile Trump is losing what little sanity he ever possessed as a string of court cases involving his corrupt business dealings are decided against him, and people are no longer fooled by his claims of a great economy.

    And that doesn’t even factor in his stealing money from veterans through his foundation (which has now justifiably been shut down), his bribery of porn stars and Playboy centerfolds just before his election to influence its outcome, or his bragging private admission to being a serial sex criminal (then lying about it).

    • Avatar Just the Facts says:

      At this point in the Game Patrecia, any Veteran that votes for the Orange guy or Evangelical Christian that votes for him again has lost all semblance of rational thinking (not to mention they lost their Moral Capital).

      Stealing money from the Veterans is the lowest of the lowest.

      How did we get here you may be asking? Ari spells it out pretty well.

      https://youtu.be/RUZx9uDS-7k

  31. Avatar Jist Cuz says:

    LAW ENFORCEMENT HAS THE HIGHEST INCIDENCE OF ALCOHOLISM, DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, HOMICIDE AND SUICIDE OF ANY INDUSTRY IN THE NATION CALIFORNIA +!+

    https://www.redding.com/story/news/2019/11/10/investigation-finds-630-california-police-officers-convicted-crimes/4167322002/

  32. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    “Many, many, many people are pressuring me to run for president”, Hillary Clinton on BBC Radio.

  33. Avatar Larry Winter says:

    I’ll be watching today’s impeachment hearing.

    Anybody else?

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      Listening on my iPhone and taking peeks as I work on my laptop. It’s already pretty much a slam-dunk that Trump held up security aid to an ally until he got assurances that the ally would help him dig up dirt on a political opponent. Whether you call that “quid pro quo” or “banana bread,” if that’s not a high crime, nothing is.

      Schiff’s opening statement that this is not just about Trump’s blatant corruption, but also about what levels of presidential corruption we’re going to tolerate in the future, was compelling.

      • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

        Fathom is having a Twilight Zone marathon which(witch) fits in perfect with what is happening in DC(Marvel Comics) right now.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        Lots of committee minority (GOP) grumbling about testimony that’s second-hand knowledge of conversations and events. But don’t expect Nunes and company tor press the first-hand witnesses (White House and Shadow Government officials, mostly) to stop ignoring their subpoenas.

        • Avatar Larry Winter says:

          Rep Welsh of Vermont had a good comeback for the second handers. Let Trump have a seat at the witness table to testify. Nothing but laughter from the room.

    • Avatar Larry Winter says:

      Pretty compelling witnesses. They aren’t “never Trumpsters” as Trump tweeted they are, even though it’s his administration that appointed these lifelong, patriotic public servants.
      Ukrainian President was arranging an interview with CNN in order to acquiesce to Trump’s request when this all came to light.
      Military aid that was withheld without reason, was reinstated after it became public.

      The shake down was not consummated because it was made public is not a defense.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        I had heard that Jim Jordan is a braying jackass, but this was the first time I’d seen him bray. He seems to have been added to the committee specifically for his ability to gin up a severe case of red ass. Didn’t work—the two witnesses seemed more puzzled than rattled by his hair-on-fire theatrics.

        Devin Nunes was his usual dick-with-limbs self. This is the guy who just last year supported the “Discouraging Frivolous Lawsuits Act,” but this year filed defamation lawsuits against Twitter and two twitter accounts: “Devin Nunes’ Mom” and “Devin Nunes’ Cow,” seeking a total $250 million. He’s also filed a $150 million defamation lawsuit against the Fresno Bee.

  34. Avatar Candace says:

    Steve, In order to save my sanity I have to press mute whenever Nunes talks. Jim Jordan’s disrespectful, holier than thou, snarky theatrics make me want to press mute while wishing I could simultaneously press an ejector seat button for his chair. Buffoonery in real time.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Love Jim Jordan. He tells it like it is

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        Doug — Nah. He’s the Hannity version of a GOP congressman—a human hard-on. He was put on the committee to bark, bluster, spin, divert, intimidate, and repeat discredited conspiracy theories.

        Jordan exemplifies the win-at-all-costs, America’s-principles-be-damned ethos of the GOP going back to Newt Gingrich.

        • Avatar Candace says:

          Every time Jim Jordan speaks I halfway expect him and his fellow GOP cohorts to all start elbowing each other and fist pumping while grinning and saying “Good one!” like immature college frat boys.

      • Avatar Linda Cooper says:

        Doug – This question is going around the net:

        Has any GOP member explained why – if as Jim Jordan says –
        “Ukraine is one of the three most corrupt countries on the planet,”
        Trump trusted them to investigate two U.S. citizens…for corruption?

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          You are assuming that is what he wanted. Trump was butt hurt that Ukraine helped Clinton in 2016. But of course the Democrats convienently ignore that part of foreign collusion. That is what President Trump was focusing on, 2016…not 2020. We know that President Trump does not like the US giving foreign aid. He has said that since he started to run. So it is not a stretch for him to hold up aid until he determines that the new president was a true reformer. So what happened? Did Ukraine get their aid? Yes…did they have to investigate Biden to get it? No they didn’t. So where is the crime? Jordan made another good point. When Ukraine begged the Obama administration for military aid to keep the Russians from invading their country. President Obama refused. He didn’t want to piss of Putin. It is interesting how Democrats are now so concerned about Aid to Ukraine. There is no impeachable crime here. My prediction is that Pelosi will drop the impeachment vote. Tell me, Linda…what is the endgame? There is no cliffhanger. If President Trump gets impeached, the Senate will acquit him. 20 GOP senators will not flip. Then what? Democrats will have a failed impeachment, President Trump will have more support from moderates and Independents and Pelosi’s Congress will have ignored major issues like immigration and health care. How is that going to help Democrats win in 2020? Democrats wanted impeachment since Jan 20, 2017 and have been searching for a crime ever since. Russian collusion didn’t work out… obstruction didn’t work out,..so this is their last gasp. And a weak one it is.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            There is zero evidence that Ukraine helped Clinton. It’s a fiction invented online, promoted by Fox News, and swallowed whole by Trump. Both diplomats to Ukraine who testified yesterday said under oath that it’s a load of bullshit with not a shred of evidence supporting it.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            The aid to Ukraine was finally released ONLY after the whistle-blower went public with Trump’s attempts at blackmail/bribery, which it now appears was quite an elaborate scheme involving what was apparently an entire shadow government set up for that purpose.

            I wonder what excuse die-hard Trump sycophants give themselves for why Trump is fighting tooth-and-nail to keep his tax returns and business dealings hidden from the public , when every other president/presidential candidate has willingly made theirs available. What we now know about those things (which is becoming considerable) is that they are overwhelmingly corrupt and unethical, if not outright illegal. He is motivated entirely by self-interest, and obviously believes he’s above the law. All of his mafia-style tactics are finally catching up with him.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          Yes Patrecia… Russian collusion fell apart, obstruction went nowhere, this idiotic hearing is going nowhere…so I guess the next attempt will be his taxes. Keep throwing crap against the wall to see if anything sticks

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Doug Cook,

            Collusion was in no way disproven (as Mueller plainly stated), and there is considerable evidence of Trump’s repeated efforts to obstruct. Unfortunately Mueller put Democrats in the position of completing his investigation. However, investigators can’t keep up with Trump’s steady barrage of corrupt and (now) treasonous acts.

            And you haven’t told us why you believe Trump should be allowed to sabotage investigations by hiding his tax returns. Don’t you people ever wonder what your sleazy hero doesn’t want the public and investigators to know?

  35. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    Here’s my Day 1 synopsis (these won’t be daily):

    I listened to them for much of the day. Really, it should be “game over” on the first day. The two witnesses were extremely credible career diplomats, and their testimony was damning.

    It’s clearly true that Trump was withholding military aid until the personal-gain goods were delivered. He withheld the aid for close to two months, until the whistleblower dropped a dime and Senators—including many Republicans—got wind of the scheme and were pissed. At that point Trump’s knees buckled. The scheme was 100% counter to longstanding U.S. policy, including our current policy.

    The GOP committee members’ argument was as Larry put it: The shakedown was not finalized because it was made public before it could be fully consummated. That’s among the most weaksauce defenses I’ve ever heard.

    Schiff did a good job of making the case that this will determine what we expect of and allow presidents to do going forward—it’s not just about Trump. We’re either rejecting this kind of corruption* outright, or we’re normalizing it.

    *Specifically: (1) inviting/strong-arming foreign nations to meddle in our elections, and (2) trading matters of national interest and security for personal gain.

    • Avatar Tim says:

      I see a gulf between “investigating possible US corruption” and “meddling in elections” solely “for personal gain.”

      If Trump and China reach a trade deal that benefits the USA, will we say Trump was encouraging China to meddle in the election or that he made the deal solely for his personal gain?

      • Avatar Larry Winter says:

        Yes Tim, another version of that is the “October Surprise” concept where the fear of Jimmy Carter announcing the return of the hostages in Iran just before the election. Without going into the idea of Bush conspiring with the Iranians to hold the hostages until after the election, the incumbent President does have the edge by providing positive news that benefits America, and as a side benefit, helps his re-election.

        With Trump and Ukraine, he was using his office in requesting a foreign leader to take specific actions to benefit his re-election campaign that had nothing to do with US or Ukrainian interests.

        • Avatar Tim says:

          Except rooting out corruption is in the interests of both nations – and that’s why this line of impeachment falls flat…

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Except Trump’s actions were the exact opposite of rooting out corruption. They were supportive of a corrupt prosecutor, contrary to US policy and interests, they were focused on the Bidens (for obviously selfish gain), and the quid pro quo aspect was in and of itself profoundly corrupt.

          • Avatar Larry Winter says:

            Your argument falls flat.

            Congress passed the appropriations with conditions. The Defense Department was required to certify those conditions before money is released. They did that in May. Let me repeat, the conditions that were required to be met before aid is sent were met according to the Pentagon.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Expanding on Larry’s point: Presidential impoundment of allocations authorized by Congress was not an uncommon practice for much for much of the nation’s history. (Impoundment = the president refusing to spend money allocated by Congress.)

            The Impoundment Control Act of 1974 ended that. It provides that the president may propose rescission of specific funds, but that rescission must be approved by both the House of Representatives and Senate within 45 days. The requirement removed impoundment power— Congress is not required to vote on the rescission and, has ignored the vast majority of presidential requests.

            In short: Trump flat-out violated the Impoundment Control Act—a serious violation of the law.

            Maybe you recall Trump having to go to court to defend diverting military funding to The Wall. The federal courts had to find that the decision didn’t thwart Congressional intent when it allocated military funding.

            Trump didn’t go to the courts over the withholding of Ukrainian military funding. The courts *and* Congress would have called bullshit.

  36. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    Tim — Your arguments—even when I disagreed with them—formerly possessed the virtue of being logical and grounded in reality. Now you’re just coming off as another delusional Trumptster.

    If you’re paying any attention at all, you know by now that Trump had zero interest in fighting Ukrainian corruption, and a great deal of interest in wounding Biden.

    During the infamous phone call, Trump even defended the corrupt and 86’d Ukrainian head prosecutor that all of Europe and American diplomats had wanted gone for his disinterest in fighting corruption. Why? Because when all of the West was calling for the guy’s head, Biden was the person who delivered the “we concur” message on behalf of the Obama administration.

    • Avatar Tim says:

      The delusion is in jumping from investigating a claim that *had it been true* might have been politically damaging to a potential rival to “meddling in election” or general digging up dirt on rivals. What Trump said on that call was near the line, but still within the scope of his powers as president.

      Anti-Trumpers are more likely to find evidence of a high crime by digging through Trump’s past loan applications and comparing his stated income against tax records: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/federal-appeals-court-rejects-trump-s-effort-shield-his-taxes-n1081976

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        Tim, except for the fact that if it is true, that is not an impeachable offense because it occurred before he became President

        • Avatar Tim says:

          That’s the convention, but not a hard law. I’d find it pretty amusing if the commander & chief of the world’s most powerful military was prohibited from owning firearms due to a felony fraud conviction for exaggerating his income on a loan application.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        Tim — If you think at this point that this is only about what Trump said in his “perfect” phone call, you’re not paying attention.

        I do agree with you that ultimately, the Ukraine affair is probably just one of many impeachable offenses. Trump is working awfully hard to keep his kimono closed for someone who’s innocent.

        • Avatar Tim says:

          If Trump’s offenses are so serious and clear cut, why haven’t Democrats voted to actually impeach? This extra protracted “inquiry” smacks of an opposition party’s political attempt to weaken the president and maintain a cloud over him during an election year.

          • Avatar Larry Winter says:

            Who was pulling their hair out and beating their puffed up chests to have open meetings? Declaring the American people need to know!!!

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Tim — Your protestations are getting increasingly weaksauce as we go along. Schiff has said he plans to wrap the investigation up by mid-December and at that point decide on impeachment. This isn’t an election year.

            On top of what’s already been pointed out (exactly, Larry): Why on Earth end an investigation before all of the evidence has been presented? If Schiff ended the investigations tomorrow and issued impeachment articles, Trump and his toadies would scream to high heaven that all the remaining potential evidence was exonerating.

            By airing it all out, the Trumpsters will have nothing left but the usual wuddaboutisms. Wuddabout the Bidens? Wuddabout Ukraine hacking the DNC’s computer, tryna make it look like Russia did it? Wuddabout that poor, hard-working Ukrainian chief prosecutor who got shit-canned? Wuddabout Crooked Hillary, just for good measure?

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          .and we know nothing new…their star witnesses fell flat. This will be another Russian collusion disaster for the Democrats. Pelosi is too smart to keep this charade continuing for too much longer. You need bipartisan support for impeachment and they are not getting it, matter of fact I see more Democrats switching sides. Yes, this is a disaster for the Democrats.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Doug Cook,

            That’s all wishful thinking on your part. Democrats have a long list of highly credible witnesses who each have something to contribute. There is no single “star witness” on whom the entire investigation depends.

            In addition, collusion wasn’t a “disaster for the Democrats”, and neither is this. As Mueller plainly stated, his investigation didn’t rule out collusion on Trump’s part, and resulted in the prosecution of a number of Trump’s criminal cohorts. He also said his belief that a sitting president can’t be prosecuted was the reason he went no further.

            As determined as Pelosi was to avoid impeachment so as not to inflame Trump’s malignant base (who – like yourself – are willing to give Trump as pass on literally anything), this is so egregious that she realized she could no longer put off defending the country against this scourge.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Patrecia, It was widely reported that Schiff was going to put his most damaging evidence at the beginning. Why? Because Americans are quickly growing tired of these investigations. Schiff wanted their best witnesses on early. It fizzled out, that was their Hail Mary pass and it failed. We have had 3 years now of ‘boy who cried wolf’ accusations that have gone nowhere.
            Of course Russian collusion was a disaster for Democrats. THAT alleged scandal was going to impeach the president. Why isn’t it part of this impeachment hearing? You would think that the supposed 10 incidents of obstruction, the Dems could maybe find 2 or 3 that they could use for impeachment charges, right? But no…because there is nothing there, there.
            Pelosi wasn’t afraid of ‘inflaming’ Trump’s base…she is a smart politician that knows that this impeachment will eventually hurt the Democrats, the same way that Clinton’s impeachment hurt the GOP

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Doug sez: “You need bipartisan support for impeachment…”

            Flat-out wrong. You just need to insure that there are no Demo defectors in the House.

            Doug sez: “It was widely reported that Schiff was going to put his most damaging evidence at the beginning.”

            Uh huh. And where exactly was that “widely reported”? It makes sense to put core evidence on the table, and present the corroborating evidence afterward. Is that what you’re referring to? Normal procedure?

            And remember, Schiff’s committee won’t be the only committee presenting findings to Pelosi. It’s hard to keep track, given that Trump is a human crime wave, but there are other offenses being investigated by other committees.

            Here is a reasonably thorough and sober description of Schiff’s strategy: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/05/magazine/adam-schiff-impeachment.html

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Steve, nobody as yet has explained to me what the end game is for the Democrats. There is no surprise ending here. President Trump won’t be removed from office. So is it just the goal of Democrats to damage the president? To hopefully give one of the weak candidates a fighting chance? You want to put the country through this just because you have crappy candidates? So enlighten me. What do you want to see at the end of this circus? How are the Democrats going to benefit?

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            “…“I haven’t said this to any press person before. But since you asked, and I’ve been thinking about this, impeachment is so divisive to the country that unless there’s something so compelling and overwhelming and bipartisan, I don’t think we should go down that path because it divides the country.”
            Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            As I recall this was such an obvious, egregious violation on Trump’s part that quite a few Republicans were in favor of moving forward with impeachment proceedings.

            Of course that doesn’t mean they will vote outside of the party agenda (they won’t), but the strategy of just throwing mud at the numerous (and typically very credible) witnesses is going to backfire on them. The American public is capable of coming to the obvious conclusion, and the majority won’t take kindly to Republicans voting against ridding the country of this demented, corrupt, dangerous thug.

  37. R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

    It’s quite clear that Trump abused his office by attempting to bribe President Zelensky with $400,000 million in withheld military aid to Ukraine, and that Trump conspired for months with batshit crazy Rudy Giuliani’s band of thieves and FOX News to execute their plan. That’s two impeachment counts there. Expect the counts to expand as we learn more about Trump’s off-the-record calls with world leaders. What else is stashed on Trump’s secret server? Why did he give Erdogan the green light in Syria? Why has he given MBS a pass in the Kashoggi murder dismemberment? It could all come out–and it should.

  38. Avatar Gary Tull says:

    And the absurdity goes on;
    Repub Senate Confirms Wildly Problematic Trump Court Pick Steven Menashi
    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/steven-menashi-republicans-senate-confirms-trump-judge_n_5dcd9beae4b00b9293bff09a

    • Avatar Tim says:

      In completely unrelated news, Ruth Bader Ginsburg missed oral arguments yesterday due to illness. She served 26 years without missing a day until cancer sugery caused her to skip 2 weeks this January.

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        I know I’m jumping the gun…but, let’s say that RBG needs to be replaced soon. The Republicans painted themselves in a corner. Will they hold hearings on a SCOTUS pick in an election year? Or hold off until after the election.

        • Avatar Tim says:

          It’d be quite interesting if a Republican senate confirms a nominee 4 years after putting Garland on ice, especially if Trump is under formal impeachment. Might give Democrats just the justification they need to expand & pack the court if they win in 2020

  39. R.V. Scheide R.V. Scheide says:

    Merrick Garland is available.

    • Avatar Gary Tull says:

      I hope he’s still available next year around this time. There’s still a chance (even lifetime appointed) Kavanaugh could find himself on shaky ground after the 2020 general. Possibly a few others as well once they fully discover how corrupt trump actually is.

  40. Avatar Larry Winter says:

    Trump tweeting negative, unfounded claims against a witness while the testimony is happening can be considered as witness tampering, says Bret Baier of Fox News.

    The man with Narcissistic Personality Disorder can’t help himself. He’s putting more pressure on Republicans to turn against him. Our President is mentally ill and the symptoms keep playing out for all to see.

  41. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    Breaking news: Roger Stone found guilty on all seven counts of lying to Congress, witness tampering, and obstructing a Congressional investigation. I wonder how the portrait of Nixon tattooed on his back will go over in federal prison?

    Draining the swamp, one swamp monster at a time.

  42. Avatar Larry Winter says:

    More breaking news. All Republicans on the Committee refute Trump’s allegation that the former Ambassador is “bad news”. Every one of them, to a person, have showered accolades on this 30+year career civil servant.

    Trump, Giuiliani and some corrupt Ukrainians are the only ones that have besmirched the reputation of an anti-corruption American Ambassador.

    • Avatar Tim says:

      I don’t know, I think pardoning and restoring the ranks of war criminals is big news, but y’all keep investigating different witness recollections of a taped phone call

  43. Avatar Tim says:

    Here’s an interesting case: A US court just ruled that US-born woman is not a citizen. She is the daughter of a former Yemeni diplomat and children of diplomats are not automatically granted US citizenship.

    The dispute stems over the fact her father was no longer a diplomat when she was born, which should make her a citizen afterall. But the US argued that since it was not informed of the diplomat’s dismissal until after her birth that her citizenship is invalid. The court, somehow, agreed.

    https://www.npr.org/2019/11/15/779788549/judge-rules-that-u-s-born-woman-who-joined-isis-is-not-a-u-s-citizen

  44. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Adios Roger Stone the Flamboyant Grifter. The odds are against him getting a pardon as the Orange guy is in it for himself only, that is obvious. And you can’t pardon your way out of State Crimes. So he and the kids will find that one out.

    Very few left on board the Trumptanic now. 34 have fallen over board and 6 now Indicted! Well one things for sure….that Witch Hunt……it has exposed some Witches!

    Why are they doing this the question rings out in trump land. They will never convict him in the Senate! Correct, they won’t but its not about that for the Dem’s. It’s about following the Constitution, laws and moral rules of behavior. Something the GOP has forgotten about….the party of values….lol

    Down with the ship will go the last that have lashed themselves to the Trumptanic….the Ocean plays no favorites as the big ol ship starts sinking below the surface.

    G one
    O ur
    P oliticans

  45. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    With Kamila Harris’s bid falling look for a winning Democrat ticket of Biden/Harris. I could go for that.

    • Avatar Larry Winter says:

      I don’t think Biden is going anywhere either. Look at the scramble by Dem establishments adding Patrick and Bloomberg to the ticket. The Sanders/Warren wing of the party is remaining strong.

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        Biden is probably electable but not nominatable…Warren and Sanders are nominatable but not electable. That is the problem the Democrats have right now. Mayor Pete is surging, he is the most cogent of all the candidates and repositioned himself as the moderate alternative. If the Democrats want to win, they better look at some of these other candidates…Mayor Pete, Klobuchar, and Gabbard have a much better chance in the general election than the far left candidates that want to spend $50 trillion on Medicaire for all and want to open our borders.

    • Avatar don says:

      I was keeping her for AG

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Why choose a VP that is losing badly? Because she checks off the right boxes? a woman and person of color? No…California is already wrapped up for the Democrats, so a California VP candidate won’t help him. Besides,her record as California’s AG is problematic for Democrats. It’s a moot point, because Biden is not going anywhere. I have been hearing pundits say that he may come in 4th or 5th in the early states.

    • Avatar Gary Tull says:

      Bruce, I would go for that too – or better yet, a Warren/Harris ticket who would likely bring in an honest non-partisan A.G. that doesn’t act as a personal defense lawyer for his corrupt boss… like the despicable shade barrier that’s in that position at the moment.

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        Mr Tull, Sen. Warren does not have a chance in hell in winning a general election. Sure, she can probably win a primary as the Democrats have turned far left. But the country is still middle right and will lose soundly in a general election.

        President Obama took a shot at Warren and Sanders the other day, this is what he said about the far left candidates. “…The average American doesn’t think we have to completely tear down the system and remake it, and I think it’s important for us not to lose sight of that. There are a lot of persuadable voters and there are a lot of Democrats out there who just want to see things make sense. They just don’t want to see crazy stuff, they want to see things a little more fair, they want to see things a little more just, and how we approach that I think will be important.”…wise words from the former president.

        Warren not only wants to spend hundreds of billions to offer free college to all Americans, she also wants to spend trillions on climate change and that $52 trillion on nationalized health care. Is that what you want Mr Tull? To devastate the American economy?

        • Avatar Gary Tull says:

          No, of course not. I don’t want to see the American economy devastated. But I know candidates sometimes make outrageous proposals while campaigning that are impossible to fulfill once they’re in office and think that’s probably what Mr.Obama was making reference to in terms of Sanders and Warren,

          Whatever Sanders and Warren may suggest while on the campaign trail doesn’t necessarily mean they would be terrible at their job once they’re in office. They would come down to earth, modify and adjust their proposals and of course those proposals go nowhere until approved by a congressional majority. So I doubt any new blood coming in will result in chaos to the economy.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Then clarify something for me Mr Tull, when candidate Trump declared that Mexico would pay for the wall,,,was that a lie like Democrats claimed, or an ‘outrageous proposal while campaigning’ as you kindly allow space for Warren and Sanders?

        • Avatar Larry Winter says:

          Doug, Medicare for all is not a fringe idea, or “crazy stuff”. The polling shows, depending on funding mechanisms, support is marginally higher than opposition, with those undecided in the high teens.
          https://www.vox.com/2019/11/16/20965241/medicare-for-all-financing-polling

          The proposals from Sanders are part of a populist movement that even Trump tapped into. This idea that average Americans are getting screwed hasn’t gone away and Trump’s populist claim is being shown for the fraud that it is. There is a real threat that they will bail on him for something better.

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          Doug — You underestimate Trump’s growing toxicity. The incumbent Democratic governor of deeply red Louisiana was thrown into a runoff election because he didn’t earn a plurality of the vote in the general election. The two GOP candidates won 52% combined to the incumbent Democrat’s 48%—a bad omen.

          Enter Trump, who campaigned vigorously (groveled, really) on behalf of the GOP candidate in the runoff, framing it as a referendum on his presidency. (What a shock—making something all about himself.) V.P. Pence said, “The president and I left it all on the field.”

          It backfired spectacularly. Trump didn’t just fail to goose the GOP percentage—he flipped it to the Democrats’ advantage.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Steve, The Democrats have corrected the mistake they made in 2016 and are focusing on down ballot elections. Just like what the GOP did back then. Big Democrat donors like Soros and Seyers are spending millions in supporting local and state elections. So seeing a number of state elections flipping is not that surprising to me. Remember, in 2016, 37 out of 50 governors were Republican, and 2/3rds of state legislatures were Republican, So the pendulum swinging back I doubt has much to do about President Trump.
            What the voters will look at in the voting booth is how has the Trump presidency affected them. I can stand in there and conclude that yes…he is a boorish man that I wish would stop tweeting . I would love to see him think before speaking, but how have I fared in these past 4 years? The economy is doing great, he’s attempting to buck the military bureaucracy and return troops from the middle east, he is the only president that has the balls to deal with China and trade, which most economists believe is vital to the US economy. We benefited from tax cuts. So tell me…what is the horror that President Trump visited on us these past 4 years? Personally speaking…how has your life been affected by this administration. Mine has improved.

            How will a Warren presidency affect you? It will devastate the economy…we will lose private insurance and be forced into a crappy government controlled health care. I stopped using the VA because they were not taking care of my one health care need I have. I attempted to change my primary doctor because I didn’t like him and they denied my request. Is that what you want to happen to everyone? The Democrats are having a fit over the debt that President Trump has rung up (as am I), but seem to be fine with with Warrens plan for free college, free health care for illegals, free this, free that. There should be a law against calling a government program free…it is not free, it will be paid by higher taxes on us…the middle class.
            I would be fine voting for a moderate Democrat rather than President Trump. But right now the Democrats aren’t leaning that way. The progressive wing of the party led by AOC has taken over the more sensible moderate wing. All that will do is ensure a far left nominee and guaranteeing a Trump victory. Look at the warning that President Obama gave that I posted. He is a smart politician.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            There are a heck of a lot of people who AREN’T doing better. Farmers and quite a few small business owners are struggling and going under due largely to Trump’s nutty nationalistic trade and immigration policies, entire industries (which Trump promised to save) are collapsing, and factories are shutting down right and left.

            In addition, a minor temporary tax decrease for the middle class (which was just an excuse for massive tax give-aways to the wealthy and corporate powers, at great expense to the national deficit) doesn’t offset the higher prices the average person is paying. No doubt there are plenty of people who voted for Trump who are figuring out that it just wasn’t worth it.

  46. Avatar Candace says:

    In other stories… my neighbor to the left has decided to fly a huge Pro/Trump from a tree in his front yard. For people who have seen my comments on ANC you know I am, to put it mildly, not a fan of Trump. One of my other neighbors who lives directly across the street from said house phoned me last night “joking” about how the flag is in constant view. Me? I’m practicing neighborly love by ( trying hard) to respect the fact that my neighbor has the right to fly any flag he chooses. I’ll still greet him with a forced smile (kidding) at the mailbox. That said, anybody know where I can find a large “Dump Trump” sign? Asking for the neighbor.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      A disturbing comment for sure, Candace. You are ‘trying hard’ to respect a neighbor that supports the president? You have to ‘force a smile’ because somebody has a different political view than you? The intolerance of the left these days is quite troubling. Intolerant attitudes where a person shouldn’t be able to express a contrary political viewpoint without consequences. So what that he displays a Trump sign. Does that make him a bad neighbor? A bad guy? No…he has a differing political view than you. So what? If you do possess beliefs that are not accepted by the progressive, socialist left, you, your family… heck, your pets… are all fair game for assault, and public character assassination. Last June, Rep. Maxine Waters urged Democrats to harass Trump staffers whenever possible. Intolerant? Of course. Numerous conservative politicians have been harassed at restaurants or refused service. In 2017, Pew Research found that 35% of Democrats said that a friend voting for Trump would put a strain on their friendship. Only 3% of Republicans were to say that a friend voting for Hillary Clinton would put a strain on their friendship.
      I realize that your comment has a bit of tongue in cheek in it. But the underlying message that it is hard to be friends or the very least friendly with Trump supporters is disturbing.

      • Avatar Candace says:

        Doug, I guess you missed the “kidding” part of my mailbox comment? Also, nowhere did I say my neighbor was a “bad” neighbor or a “bad” person. In fact, your pet comment is sort of funny since unbeknownst to you I just recently offered to pet sit for him. Also, I said “respect my neighbor’s rights…”. He knows I’m not a Trump fan yet he and I seem to be able to agree to disagree. So far neither of us have traded insults or lobbed rotten eggs at one another. Seems to me the person showing intolerance is you by reading waaaay more into my tongue and cheek post and using my admitted dislike of Trump to go on a rant of what you imagine my many faults to be. I can remember a time when you thanked me for not assuming you were misogynist when I disagreed with your comments. Perhaps you might consider extending me the same courtesy of not branding me intolerant of all opposing views. Compared to many of my and your past comments my last one was fairly innocuous so I’m left wondering if you simply saved up your criticisms to lambast me because I typically disagree with you.

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        Doug Cook,

        As usual you ignore the massive (REAL) violence committed by Trump supporters against people whose only “crime” is that they happen to be members of minority groups, non -Christians, gay, women, etc. etc. to focus on some minor, non-violent protest of Trump’s immediate henchmen (or women), who at the time were instrumental in stealing children by the thousands from their families and throwing them into baby concentration camps.

        There is absolutely nothing tolerant about Trump supporters. They rammed a vehicle into a group of counter protestors who were dispersing in Charlottesville (killing one person and injuring 19 others – some seriously), and shot a counter-protestor peacefully crossing a bridge. Five of them beat a Black teenager within an inch of his life, and stabbed two men to death on a subway for trying to protect two Black girls from their racist abuse. They beat an Indian restaurant worker in the head with a metal pipe, and shoved a Muslim woman down a flight of stairs. They’ve painted swastikas on people’s houses, hung minority college students in effigy, and punched dark-skinned strangers on the streets. The list goes on (and on and on and on).

        You also seem to have conveniently forgotten the many right-wingers who called Obama’s wife and children “apes”, and said point-blank that his children weren’t smart enough to get into a decent college on their own. It was so bad, in fact, that Fox had to shut down entire threads on its website. Then there was the racist “birther” nonsense (led by Trump).

        I would have nothing in common with a Trump supporter. We obviously have an entirely different set of “principles”, a far different level of integrity, and a vastly different world view. I’m not at all ashamed to admit that I avoid Trump supporters. Who knows when the next one will become violent?

    • Avatar Beverly Stafford says:

      Candace, Amazon has tons of anti-Trump flags. My favorite: Any Functioning Adult 2020

  47. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    What I find interesting in this Trump witch hunt and the constant Democrat field growing is that Sheriff Joe Arpaio was ousted and charged with racial crimes for his policy of checking immigration status on mostly Hispanics in Arizona. He eventually was pardoned by President Trump.
    The latest Democrat, Bloomberg, who’s “stop and frisk” policy targeted Blacks and Hispanics, did the same thing Arpaio did but has now said he is sorry and running for president and the Democrats are okay with this.

  48. Avatar Candace says:

    Thanks Beverly, my question was meant more as tounge-in-cheek. My “across the street” neighbor may very well be searching Amazon as we speak!

  49. Avatar Candace says:

    Bruce, I’m a registered Democrat and I’m not ok with Arpaio or Bloomberg.

  50. Avatar Candace says:

    Doug, also, I’m sorry but the notion that folks on the right don’t engage with intolerant language and behavior as much as folks on the left is laughable. Read just about any political FB thread lately? Left, right or middle, we’re all guilty of it at times. Heck, you, yourself just attributed broad sweeping
    negative attributes to someone on “ left” because of a comment attached to my admitted dislike of Trump.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Yes, Candace…of course their is intolerant language from the right. But here’s the difference, in my never-to-be-humbled opinion. The hyperbole and ad hominem attacks used to come from the fringes , the far right and far left. Now days attacks and intolerance on the left has become more mainstream. On these very pages I have been called a transphobe, a homophobe, a Nazi sympathizer, a racist, a white supremacist..and yes, a misogynist. I didn’t even vote for the guy and get these labels tossed upon me. Whereas the few, and I mean few conservative participants in this forum all seem to be more tolerant of differing views. As I said…just my opinion, I’m sure you think otherwise.

      I plead guilty for reading more into your comment than what probably was there…However, if a neighbor of mine put up an Obama flag, I would simply say…looks like my neighbor supports the president. Ok…Hardly be worthy of mentioning it anywhere else.

      • Avatar Candace says:

        Doug, after “pleading guilty” it might have been polite to stop there and forego the “…However” part. Guess you weren’t kidding about the “never to be humbled” thing. As far as your opinion regarding what’s considered “worthy” of mentioning on ANC, well, that sounds pretty intolerant to me. Also, sorry, but your frequent “ Yes, (fill in name) … of course” lead ins that are akin to an eye roll and are meant to marginalize the person you’re debating miss the mark with me. Guess we’re at an impasse. Happens.

  51. Avatar Gary Tull says:

    Thomas Friedman’s excellent column this morning on this president’s nomination of an unethical Secretary of State:
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/18/opinion/mike-pompeo.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

  52. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Joe Biden Hates Marijuana (he just got clearer on his stance) and Hunter Biden’s interesting past jobs representing special interests. Yes Corruption is on Both Side of the Fence!

    https://www.gq.com/story/joe-biden-bankruptcy-bill#intcid=recommendations_gq-bottom-recirc-similar_57d7ce38-de5d-427f-87e7-69e62731d9f6_similar2-3_entityTopicSimilarity

  53. Avatar Tim says:

    In the midst of a very public investigation of the President for allegedly abusing his powers, house Democrats today authorized an extension of the Patriot Act – continuing to give the president extra power.

  54. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    This impeachment hearing is turning into a disaster for the Democrats. It’s laughable. I’m beginning to think that Pelosi is going to pull the plug on this circus. It’s time to let the voters be the jury. Vote him out if you don’t like what he did.

    • Avatar Larry Winter says:

      Funny. I watched the whole thing with the Republican’s star witnesses and see it completely opposite of what you think happened. Very damning I thought. According to Volker, investigating Joe Biden was being conflated with investigating Ukrainian corruption by Trump, who was repeating the conspiracies of a corrupt Ukrainian through Rudy. They were the only people that were doubting the new Ukrainian President’s resolve for uprooting corruption.

      Volker praised Joe Biden, having known him for decades saying that the idea of investigating Biden was conspiracy theory material.
      Morrison took his concerns about what Rudy was doing to legal counsel because it was so concerning.

      Sondland will also be connecting Trump directly to this whole unsavory affair today.

    • Avatar Larry Winter says:

      Ambassador (2+2=4) Sondland testifies to quid pro quo as ordered by Trump through Rudy G.

  55. Avatar Tim says:

    Blaming, among other things, California’s new anti gig worker law, the Sacramento Bee just announced it will no longer be putting out a Saturday newspaper.

  56. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Like a Heavyweight fighter in the ring against the 10 time Champion the Orange guy is looking very weary right now. The Excuses are running out on the GOP side. The chants about emails and obama and the ice cream man made him do it are all but a gasp for air.

    This Presidency is on FIRE at this point and no Piranha owning Jim Jordan is going to save it. The GOP is just about to the running down the Street with their Skirt over their head screaming it’s all a set up and Hillary this and that part!

    Ding….ding….ding….. President Pelosi! Has a ring to it…Yes?

    Note to Republicans: You have shown your True Colors thus far….attacking a Lt Colonel, trying to smear witnesses…..ANYTHING you can do to save the Sinking Trumptanic! The Captain AND his crew are all going Down with the ship……Ding…..

    Advise to the GOP- It’s about time you start talking about WALSH……..dump trump…….save yourselves before it too late and the Blue Wave Washes over the Country and Capital!

    Note to the Orange Guy: Use a Medical Excuse…..cut a deal NOW. It worked pretty good with the Bone Spurs! Perhaps they will remember the great economy and will forget about the TREASON,Crimes Against the United States and the other crimes?

  57. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    Maybe I’ve mentioned this local interest story before—if I have, here it is again.

    If you’re my age, you’re undoubtedly familiar with The Who’s song “Baba O’Riley” (aka Teenage Wasteland). The song’s title and the opening synthesizer riff played by Pete Townsend are homages to avant garde composer Terry Riley, who grew up in Redding and went to Shasta College before moving on. Townsend’s organ part on “Won’t Get Fooled Again” was also inspired by Riley.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY5rztWa1TM

  58. Avatar Tim says:

    Kudos to Betsy Davos for making public universities report average wages vs debt for their individual degree programs: https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/ Hopefully this will prevent kids from wasting 4 years and thousands of dollars on a degree worth less than a food handling certificate… Anyway, here is how our area colleges stack up:

    Shasta College
    Degree…………………….Average Debt….1st year salary
    Registered Nursing…………..$11,000….$70,400

    Chico State
    Degree…………………….Average Debt….1st year salary
    Accounting………………………$18,000….$46,400
    Ag Business…………………….$15,000….$44,600
    Biology…………………………….$17,650….$27,400
    Business Administration..$17,000….$45,300
    Civil Engineering…………….$12,650….$64,900
    Computer Science……………$18,500….$69,500
    Construction Management.$20,500…$78,300
    Criminal Justice……………….$15,000….$29,700
    Economics……………………….$14,000….$40,300
    History……………………………..$14,000….$27,000
    Human Development………$19,000….$26,300
    Journalism………………………..$19,675….$28,800
    Mechanical Engineering…..$20,500….$61,700
    Natural Resource Conserv..$20,500….$26,400
    Nutrition……………………………$16,275….$30,000
    Parks & Recreation……………$17,725….$35,300
    Political Science………………..$18,100….$29,100
    Psychology…………………………$15,000….$27,000
    Registered Nursing……………$18,700….$93,500
    Romance Languages…………$20,650….$29,700
    Social Work……………………….$16,500….$26,700
    Sociology……………………………$16,500….$27,800

    Full Time California Minimum Wage…..$25,000

    Anthropology……………………$15,000….$20,000
    Art & Design……………………..$18,000….$21,800
    English Language/Lit………..$14,850….$19,200
    Ethnic/Gender Studies………$17,850….$19,700
    International Relations……..$16,500….$22,000
    Liberal Arts/Gen Studies……$17,100….$22,300
    Music…………………………………$21,200….$19,500
    Physical Education……………$16,500….$22,600

    Humboldt State
    Degree…………………….Average Debt….1st year salary
    Biology………………………………….$21,215….$26,000
    Business Administration……..$18,615….$32,900
    Computer Science………………..$17,625….$51,700
    Environmental Engineering.$24,300….$43,900
    Forestry…………………………………$25,600….$33,400
    Physical Education………………$22,500….$25,100
    Social Work………………………….$21,800….$29,000

    Full Time California Minimum Wage….$25,000

    Art Fine & Studio………………$22,500….$16,900
    English……………………………..$19,550….$20,400
    Liberal Arts/Gen Studies….$15,000….$20,300
    Psychology………………………..$18,000….$22,400
    Natural Resource Cons…….$19,300….$23,000
    Sociology…………………………..$15,000….$23,400
    Wildlife Management……….$22,068….$21,300

    Sacramento State
    Degree…………………….Average Debt….1st year salary
    Anthropology……………………$14,900….$30,500
    Art Design………………………..$14,600….$29,300
    Biology…………………………….$18,500….$30,400
    Business………………………….$14,400….$42,700
    Communication………………..$15,000….$34,400
    Computer Science…………….$16,200….$63,700
    Construction Engineering…$26,300….$76,900
    Criminal Justice………………..$15,000….$33,800
    Economics…………………………$15,300….$35,300
    Electrical Engineering………$16,300….$66,600
    Ethnic Studies…………………..$19,000….$27,700
    Geography…………………………$13,900….$28,100
    History……………………………….$16,000….$26,700
    Human Development………..$16,500….$28,300
    Journalism…………………………$18,800….$31,000
    Liberal Arts/Gen Studies……$13,800….$25,800
    Mechanical Engineering……$16,800….$60,200
    Natural Resources Consv…..$19,600….$32,900
    Parks & Recreation……………$16,500….$37,800
    Physical Education……………$18,000….$27,200
    Political Science……………….$17,300….$33,900
    Psychology……………………….$14,700….$30,400
    Registered Nursing…………..$17,000…$106,600
    Social Work………………………$18,800….$31,400
    Sociology…………………………..$14,300….$31,800
    Special Education……………..$20,200….$29,100

    Full Time California Minimum Wage….$25,000

    Art, Fine & Studio……………$16,300….$22,700
    English…………………………….$15,900….$25,000
    Film…………………………………$15,000….$22,600
    Music………………………………$15,100….$16,000

    UC Davis
    Degree…………………….Average Debt….1st year salary
    Aerospace Engineering…….$15,500….$53,100
    Animal Sciences………………$15,000….$27,100
    Anthropology……………………$14,600….$27,800
    Art/Design…………………………$13,300….$33,900
    Biology………………………………$13,400….$30,200
    Business……………………………$11,000….$46,800
    Civil Engineering………………$16,000….$62,400
    Chemical Engineering………$16,500….$57,300
    Communication………………..$12,000….$37,900
    Computer Engineering…….$12,500….$76,300
    Economics………………………..$12,500….$42,900
    English………………………………$15,000….$26,400
    Ethnic/Gender Studies……..$16,500….$29,500
    International Relations……..$15,000….$31,800
    Landscape Architecture……$13,500….$47,700
    Philosophy…………………………$13,200….$31,300
    Political Science………………..$13,600….$33,900
    Psychology………………………..$14,000….$30,000
    Neurobiology……………………..$15,000….$31,500
    Mechanical Engineering……$13,500….$61,700
    Sociology…………………………….$13,500….$30,700
    Statistics……………………………..$14,300….$47,900

    Full Time California Minimum Wage….$25,000

    Art, Fine & Studio……………..$13,700….$24,200
    Drama……………………………….$16,400….$18,800
    Film…………………………………..$14,600….$24,200
    Liberal Arts/Gen Studies…..$17,700….$17,600

    • Interesting stuff, Tim. You’re the master of collecting data.

      (The journalism income looks high, btw. 😉

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      Interesting. In my business there’s a saying about fieldwork (generally the entry-level and junior positions): We get paid in sunsets.

      On the other hand, the recent state-school grads who do fieldwork for us are paid at least $25/hr, which is the equivalent of $52k per year. A lot of them take 3 months off during our slow winters, so that brings it down to about $40-42k per year with OT. Many go to Costa Rica, Thailand, South America, or wherever while I spent the winters writing reports and drumming up next year’s contracts. Generally after 2-10 years of that lifestyle, they’re ready for full adulthood and year-around jobs. A few stay in that state of young adulthood for good.

      I’ve never felt sorry for any of them, and I don’t think any of them consider their biology, wildlife, botany, environmental studies, natural resource management, forestry, and archaeology degrees to be Burger King material.

  59. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    Couple of comments about UCD, my alma mater. I’m a little surprised that its graduates finish with less debt than grads of the two state schools. If I had to guess, I’d say it has to do with the abundance of part-time job opportunities at a major research university—I didn’t know too many kids at UCD whose parents were footing the entire bill. My own parents’ contribution: $0.00.

    It’s also striking that UCD liberal arts/gen studies majors have the lowest starting salaries following graduation, but the highest debt. I’m familiar with the type. Slackers.

    • Avatar Tim says:

      UCD’s low debt surprised me too, along with biology being a lower paid undergrad degree than sociology at all the Norcal colleges. The data comes from students using pell grants or federal student loans, so it doesn’t count those whose parents or trust funds paid for school.

      2nd year earnings might tell us more. It could be that UC Davis graduates go to the top of HR’s applicant pool while the comparable HSU graduate searches months for the leftover jobs. And part of it is that college degrees just aren’t worth as much in rural areas, especially for entry level workers, and Chico/Humboldt students are more likely to stay north of Sacramento…

      • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

        Tim, if your survey only covered those who used Pell Grants or Federal loans than I would say it is an incomplete survey. What about those, like my youngest daughter, who get athletic or education scholarships that pay for a percentage of the tuition.

  60. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    After watching as much of the debate I could stand…my guess is the Democrats are praying for impeachment. Looks like that’s the only way they will get rid of President Trump.

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