Open Conversation for February, 2020

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417 Responses

  1. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    And in New York City protesters are causing damage and assaulting police because they want FREE rides on the MTA. Now where did they get that idea for free stuff?

    • Avatar Damon Miller says:

      Probably from suburban and rural folk who cruise around on toll-free roads and enjoy free parking, since federal road expenditures are not fully paid for by gas taxes. The same is thing is true in most (all?) states, including New York.

      • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

        Actually those protesters are clashing and harassing the suburban and rural folk who pay to ride the MTA and pay taxes.

        • Avatar Damon Miller says:

          Democracy is messy. The fact is, cities are economic engines and suburbs could not exist without massive subsidies from people in cities. Way to ignore my point, which was the overwhelming majority of roads are free while transit is not.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            One of the reasons California’s gas prices are almost twice of the rest of the country is for our ever increasing gas tax. In our state, 25% of the gas tax goes to ‘Transit, rail and active transportation programs’. 30% of the funding from the gas tax goes to categories that won’t directly improve roads for cars and trucks, as dictated by the law.

            Federal gas tax does the same. We currently pay 18.4 cents a gallon in federal taxes. Congress has allowed or directed millions of dollars in highway funds to be diverted to projects unrelated to building or maintaining roads and bridges, such as construction of visitor centers and nature trails AND transit. The problem is not that the gas tax is too low… the problem is that gas tax revenue is siphoned off to pay for projects unrelated to roads and bridges.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Damon..the Highway Trust Fund has two accounts, the Highway Account which funds road construction and and a ‘Mass Transit Account’ which supports mass transit.

            I linked the current item breakdown of the current Hiway Trust fund account. In it you will see over a billion dollars transferred to Land and Water Conservation, To Sport Fish Restoration and Boating. Another billion transferred to the above mentioned Mass Transit account….so no, I am not wrong.
            https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2016/fe10.cfm

          • Avatar Damon Miller says:

            That’s income from the sale of gasoline for motorboats, Doug. https://fisheries.org/2015/11/gasoline-taxes-fisheries/

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Doug, nothing you tease out of the revenue flowchart overcomes the fact that we rural California counties are economic parasites. Bottom line, we send far less money to Sacramento than we get back.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            I agree with you Steve. I was just making the point that we also pay taxes for transit with our gas tax

    • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

      Well Bruce, as always there is more to that story than your ultra-right-wing media sources imply.

      In actuality they are protesting the police brutalization of a 15-year-old and other people of color who are targeted heavily by race because police suspect them of not paying fares. The City of New York is also proposing to add 500 police officers to the 2,500 who already patrol the subways at a cost of an additional $50 Million a year, with a main objective of cracking down on even more people who may be evading fares. Instead of spending $50 Million a year for more cops to enforce fares, why not apply that money toward making the subways free?

      • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

        Patricia, how do you figure that minorities are being targeted for not paying the MTA fares that others, including many minorities, pay. Your left wing sources are hoaxes.
        Those protesters actually want no subway police officers so they can violate the rules law abiding citizens follow.

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        “… there is more to that story than your ultra-right-wing media sources imply.”

        Since he didn’t supply the source…how do you know it was a ‘ultra-right wing source’? I read the same story in the apparently ultra right wing NY Times.

        • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

          The story was reported in several news and TV sources, right wing and left wing.
          The left has painted a bullseye on police and I stand with the police.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      Americans spent almost $4 trillion on healthcare last year, so $3 trillion would amount to a $1 trillion savings. And that savings is conservative. If we spent per-capita what most Northern European countries spend (for better care), we’d save even more—closer to $2 trillion.

      To put $1 trillion savings in perspective, it’s well less than the entire bloated DOD budget.

      It’s not so much that conservatives are ever satisfied with the status quo. It’s that the prospect of meaningful change causes them to lose control of their bowels in fear.

  2. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    And at a Sanders rally in Iowa, Tlaib of The Squad showed more class than anyone as she booed the left wing favorite Hillary Clinton.

  3. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    Clinton feuds with Sanders, Warren feuds with Sanders, Trump supporters are more worried about Sanders than the other Democrat candidates. And now the DNC is changing the rules to allow Bloomberg to be in the Las Vegas debate.
    Sounds like the DNC is trying to sabotage Sanders, again.

    • Avatar Candace says:

      Bruce, I agree. Bad form DNC.

      • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

        Candace, I don’t see how Sanders Socialistic plan could work but people a lot smarter than me seem to fear him. Maybe Sanders is “The One”.

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          My biggest problems with Sanders are (1) I don’t think he can get elected, and (2) I don’t think he could get Congress to work with him if he did manage to beat Trump. The arrogant, scoldy, grumpy old man persona is too much to overcome.

  4. Avatar Candace says:

    My son lives in Queens. The subway is a crumbling money pit and needs to be structurally fixed from the top down. Raising fares, adding 500 police to an already heavy subway police presence and then actively seeking out and punishing those who can’t afford the fare (or are simply suspected of not paying) with fines and oft reported over-the-top, dangerous law enforcement responses only serves to exacerbate and hi light racial/classist inequities and throw more gas on the fire. As with most things, people of color and the working poor are the people most ( not ALL) adversely affected. To me it’s not a “left” or “right” issue, it’s a class issue, a racial issue, a further criminalization of poverty. Since I’m neither poor or a person of color I’ll never know what it feels like to ride the New York Subway as such or what it feels like to be deathly afraid of the police. Talk about living with a target on your back. FYI, just in case someone reading this wonders – no, I’m not a cop hater, and yes, I realize all police aren’t white (can’t believe I have to say that). I don’t have the answer as to how to fund NY subway repairs (although free public transportation is something other cities have looked at and are still looking at). I don’t promote violence by the far left or the far right. That said, I’ve never had to experience just cause to be that angry. I don’t pretend to know what that feels like. Others obviously have and do. Different colors of skin, different opportunities, different realities. Different righteous anger.

  5. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    Candace, public transit is crumbling in a lot of cities amid peaceful protests. The NYC protest was picked by masked ANTIFA outsiders in their latest rampage and is no different than the white power groups who travel to other areas to protest peaceful demonstrations.
    The answer to these transit problems will have to be solved politically and require money, where is that money going to come from?
    Do we really need to spend billions on the latest attempt to send a rover to a distant planet?

    • Avatar Damon Miller says:

      The only people who need to be afraid of antifa are fascists and the people who love them (who, not coincidentally, are also fascists).

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        Just because they call themselves anti fascists does not mean they are. Their actions are exactly fascist. It’s like calling the KKK a civil rights organization. Rioting on college campuses to stop free speech is exactly fascist. Yelling at and intimidating an 80 year old woman crossing a street in a walker is fascist and a reason some should be afraid of them. I’m not because they are nothing but young stupid punks. I spend a lot of time in Portland where I have seen them in action. The funny thing is, they are more than likely part of the Russians plan to stir trouble in our country. So tell me, Damon. What has antifa done to make you proud? What violent acts or attacks are you in favor of?

      • Avatar The Old Pretender says:

        Agreed. Anti-fascists meet the enemy in the street. Protecting brutality of neo-nazis under the guise of free speech is a tool of the fascist sympathizer. I too spend time in Portland, and am proud of the defense of our democracy by the forces of anti-fascism. The likes of Proud Boys, who persecute innocent minorities under the protection of the local police (notoriously bigoted in PDX for generations) are to be brought to bear by pressures from those who risk persecution for protecting a complacent citizenry against forces of fascism and corporatist puppets. Revolution sucks, but sometimes you need to stir some shit to make people realize the true danger they are in.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          The Proud Boys are thugs, the same as antifa. So tell me…what exactly is antifa protecting us from? Keeping us from conservative speakers on universities? Is antifa protecting you from Ben Shapiro, to try and keep him from giving a speech?? Was that 80 year old woman pushing s a walker to cross a street to hear a speaker…was she a danger to our democracy? You are being played for a fool by the Russians if you believe that

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Doug,

            Are you still trotting out that staged gimmick with the old woman? As I recall anti-fascists in Canada were protesting a far-right-wing, racist, violence-inciting, Nazi-supported candidate for Prime Minister – very much like Trump. They were repeating a chant that could be heard throughout the demonstration when three of them were approached by an elderly woman pushing a walker (and her camera person, obviously) who kept ramming her walker into the legs of one of the protestors – no doubt hoping to incite them into some sort of violent action. Instead the protestors just moved a few feet and continued to chant. Meanwhile the man she was with harranged the protestors, but of course what he’s saying isn’t audible on this staged video. It took no time at all before the internet was loaded with videos of this poor “victim” complaining about how she was “harassed” (as planned).

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Staged gimmick. That’s ridiculous

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            The gentleman they were trying to listen to was Maxime Bernier, the leader of the conservative party in Canada. I ask you to look into his history and show me any proof that he is in your words a, “…far-right-wing, racist, violence-inciting, Nazi-supported candidate” Show me why he shouldn’t have been allowed to speak. Good gawd Patrecia.

        • Avatar Candace says:

          Old Pretender, seeing as what just happened, happened, with our elected leaders permitting a corrupt president to go unchecked, I’d venture some people are definitely experiencing a wake up call regarding the danger of presidential abuse of power and an administration that allows it. My guess is a number of people are hoping for “a revolution without a revolution” because you’re correct in that revolution “sucks”. Bigly.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Candace, the system worked. President Trump wasn’t a dictator or fascist regarding impeachment. Our Democratic system, our Constitution worked. Just because you don’t like the results doesn’t mean that s revolution is needed. Don’t like the president…vote him out of office. But when you have one of the leading Democrat candidates saying they will let s 9 year old trans student interview the Secy of Education candidate and give them veto power…good luck with winning

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            The system worked as designed. Not as intended.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            “The system worked as designed. Not as intended.”

            According to you it didn’t work as intended. just because you didn’t get the outcome you desired doesn’t mean the system didn’t work.
            Should we have impeached FDR over his executive order to intern American citizens in internment camps? Was that an abuse of power. I can come up with abuse of power for every President. Let’s see… Lincoln suspended Habeus Corpus. impeachable? You betcha. I can go on with others…but you get the idea.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Doug — First of all, I didn’t say the system didn’t work. I said it worked as designed.

            As for the intensions of the Founders, it didn’t work. Hamilton was the most persuasive when it came to including the need for impeachment. Federalist 69 lays out the need, and most responsible for what is included in the Constitution.

            Later (1792), while serving as Sect. of the Treasury, Hamilton justified the impeachment article with this:

            “When a man unprincipled in private life, desperate in his fortune, bold in his temper . . . despotic in his ordinary demeanour — known to have scoffed in private at the principles of liberty — when such a man is seen to mount the hobby horse of popularity — to join in the cry of danger to liberty — to take every opportunity of embarrassing the General Government & bringing it under suspicion — to flatter and fall in with all the nonsense of the zealots of the day — It may justly be suspected that his object is to throw things into confusion that he may ‘ride the storm and direct the whirlwind.'”

            Sound like anyone we know?

            Lastly, as I’ve said before, I think FDR was eminently impeachable, and for actions going well beyond the internment camps alone. But FDR was fighting the threats of worldwide economic depression and worldwide fascism. Similar, Lincoln faced the existential threat to the nation’s survival. Trump sold out the nation’s strategic interests for his own personal gain. Some of us recognize the difference.

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          Old Preacher — I have mixed feelings about Antifa.

          If you stand toe-to-toe against fascist thugs in the streets of Portand and yell, “Bring it, mofo!” to the Proud Boy with the “white power” ink opposite you, maybe you’re brave, like the people who actually stood up to the NAZIs when they were on the rise in Germany.

          If you run down the street wearing a mask while smashing the windows of Starbucks and Crate & Barrel shops, blind-siding mailmen and meter maids because uniforms, maybe you’re not so brave. Maybe you’re just a pathetic loser @$$hole.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Steve, if you look at any You Tube videos of antifa, you’ll see they are far from brave. Just a bunch of young punks and as you say, pathetic loser @$$holes. Bring up the video of one of those losers attacking a 80 year old woman. Patrecia, amazingly thinks she was the aggressor, but for a young punk shouting at the top of his lungs, “Effing Nazi!!” to a little old lady is not being brave. As I have said, I have seen them first hand in Portland….not a brave bunch dedicated to stopping fascism. Just young punks with no jobs, living in mommies basement causing trouble.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Doug — I think you define “Antifa” more narrowly than I do. I’ve seen video of people standing up to the Proud Boys, toe-to-toe—and since they’re staring down fascists, I include them broadly as Antifa.

            If you want to cherry-pick—excuse me…define Antifa as only the worst behaved of the anti-fascists—that’s certainly your prerogative.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      BART is in the same situation. They have increased police presence after a murder last year on the train. BART has been flooded by street people in the stations, riding trains, harassing commuters. Ridership is way down on BART

    • Avatar Anita L Brady says:

      So you take issue with the spending for Trump’s Space Force?

  6. Avatar Candace says:

    Doug, guess we’ll just have to agree to completely disagree about our system working as it was designed. Enjoy your Sunday.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Meh…im working today. Not much to enjoy. But yes ..I am proud of the way the system worked. It shows the genius of our Founding Fathers and it worked the way they intended it to.

  7. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    I spent Super Bowl Sunday taking advantage—4th row seats to “Hamilton” in SF. If you get a chance, GO. Hugely entertaining, hilarious, and moving…the woman next to me was stifling sobs toward the end and I was like, “Lady, please….that $#!+ is contagious!” I had to look up at the ceiling a couple of times to compose myself.

    The play reinforces two facets of history that we already know: (1) Rancorous, extreme political divisions in this country are nothing new, but at the outset, when we needed to, we pulled together. (2) The quality of our leadership has declined from a collection of brave, brilliant revolutionary intellectuals to a buffoonish, boorish, thin-skinned, cowardly, crass, unread mirror-worshiper.

    That’s not to say the Founders didn’t have personal ambitions—Hamilton’s ambitions and what he had to surmount in order to succeed are the heart of the play—but they also had other positive attributes, unlike the majority of today’s politicians.

    I would pay money just to see Jefferson and King George played for laughs again—so funny. I suppose that makes me a groundling.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      I have enjoyed many plays in SF. The last time I went, the street people situation was so bad on the sidewalks that I vowed not to return until they cleaned up the streets. It was disgusting. How was it Sunday? getting to the theatre?

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        We walked to the Orpheum from our B&B, about 2 miles, and both my wife and I were surprised that the density of homeless people on the streets appear to be far less than in Redding. We didn’t see a singe homeless person in our neighborhood, which was in the area of Divisadero (not gritty, but not the most tony neighborhood, either), nor in the portion of the south Filmore District we traversed. We also walked through the Hayes Valley neighborhood (relatively upscale) on the way to the theater and saw one homeless person. It wasn’t until we got to Market Street that it started resembling a Redding-scale problem. We actually witnessed one guy sticking a needle in his arm on Market Street—a new experience for my wife (I’ve seen it a couple times here in Redding).

        We spend about 6 weekends per year in The City. It’s really under and near the freeways, in both SF and the East Bay, where the homeless problem is more horrific than here in Redding. It’s also bad in SF in the Union Square area, which is adjacent to the Theater District (not the Orpheum).

        BTW, the Orpheum is magnificent…other than the Fenway Park seating. People were smaller back in the 1920s.

  8. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    Democrats want to run the country, but they can’t seem to be able to count votes in a small state? Hilarious. This will fan the flames of a Democrat party anti-Sanders conspiracy.

    • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

      Voters who aren’t die-hard members of Trump’s base (white male supremacists, Old Testament-banging fundamentalists) aren’t missing all the contortions Republican legislators are employing that supposedly justify leaving a thoroughly corrupt mafia-style criminal in office. And of course they’ve successfully blocked evidence that would further nail down the case against this deranged sociopath.

      They’re tying to slither out of doing the right thing by claiming that what he’s done is “wrong”, or even “terrible”, but that nothing rises to the level of an impeachable offense. What are they waiting for? Since Trump is clearly so demented and without conscience that the world only exists in his diseased mind to serve him and his interests, are they waiting for him to launch a nuclear war without the knowledge and approval of Congress? (like other of his military actions). Or maybe they’re waiting for him to carry out his threat to murder asylum-seekers en masse at the border. Who is the next country’s president he’ll attempt to blackmail for personal gain?

    • Avatar Larry Winter says:

      The volunteers (socialism) for the most part did a good job. When they tried using the capitalists app is when it all went wrong.
      Capitalists want to run the country but they can’t seem to count votes in a small state?
      Lol.

    • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

      Doug, it already has as the Dems are blaming each other for the debacle and Bloomberg is going to double down on ads due to the Iowa fumble. NH has regained it’s First in the Nation status.

  9. Avatar Candace says:

    Off topic but thought I’d throw this out there to see what I get back. Hoping for thoughtful, measured feedback. I’m struggling with a yes or no vote on Measure A ( 1% sales tax). Helping to fund firefighting resources is a no-brainer yes vote for me and like all people I want to feel safe in my home and out in my community. My struggle is with having the gnawing feeling that this tax will go more towards the criminalization of homelessness rather than going towards lifting those that want help out of the cycle that keeps them homeless. Also, what do “medication assisted rehab” during incarceration and after programs look like? Are they punitive based? No? Who will choose who sits on an independent watchdog advisory board if A is passed? I’ll more than likely vote yes due to fire safety but I’m feeling uneasy about the flip side of that coin as far as the mentally ill and other vulnerable segments of our homeless population. Anyone out there having the same concerns as me? No? Again, looking for thoughtful, informed weigh-in. Thanks in advance.

    • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

      Candace they are having a big debate over those assisted rehab programs here in Phoenix and I know in Cheyenne they had problems with one downtown including a small bomb set off by one of the clients. The more I hear on these clinics the more I thing they are run by profit making carpetbaggers, just another well intentioned program ruined by scammers.
      As far as the homeless in California I think the only answer is to move them to someplace more affordable, but where?

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        Bruce,

        If you fell on hard times and lost your home, would you want some government agency to make the decision to send you to another state?

        • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

          Patricia, there is in California no affordable housing for the homeless because it is too expensive and would require a lot of public money. I know you get the same news I get and are aware the same thing is happening here in Phoenix as the city is tearing down mobile home parks and single family homes to build luxury condos.
          Even Utah with there Housing First program has run out of money but they did get 2600 homeless families into housing before they ran out of money.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      If I lived in Redding I’d vote yes—I have a hard time imagining what the City would do to the homeless that be more punitive than the horrific status quo. I would hope the City leaders would be smart enough to do some research and conclude that a “housing first” program is essential for achieving any measure of success. But I understand that will be a tough sell in a part of California where 60% of the voters want Biblical retribution, Biblical retribution, and more Biblical retribution.

      • Avatar Chad Magnuson says:

        The Yes on A advertisement we locals are getting in the mail suggest the 1 cent tax increase will solve homelessness, stop crime and create a Nirvana in our area.

        If that were the case it would pass overwhelmingly.

        In reality I doubt it will have a positive effect.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Candace, I will probably vote YES on this measure, despite my aversion to tax increases. I am with Bruce in my reluctance about assisted rehab programs. Many appear to be scams taking advantage of government funding. There is a lack of national standards and less than optimal oversight of these facilities.

      When I was on the Shasta Grand Jury. We attended the graduation ceremonies of the Shasta County Addicted Offender Program. This is a tough 18 month program that upon successful completion of the program, the graduates get their felonies drug convictions reduced to misdemeanors. You can’t leave that graduation ceremony with a dry eye. This program actually works.

      You mention the ‘criminalization of homelessness’. There is help out there for those that need a helping hand. The problem is that we have been enablers for the homeless. We give them money so they can feed their drug and alcohol addictions. Making it so a person finds it much easier to continue in unhealthy behavior rather than change can be wrong. I saw an interview of a woman living in the Parkview Park area…She had a sad story of losing her apartment and forced to live on the streets. Towards the end of the interview, she admitted that the reason she was evicted was because she was using and selling heroin out of the apartment. I kinda lost my empathy for her. The way to cure the homeless problem is not allow abhorrent behavior from the homeless and make excuses for them. It is time to hold them accountable, we shouldn’t make it easy for them to live wherever they want. That just may force them to make the tough steps to fix their addictions.

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        Doug,

        In most cases (aside from the provably MINOR – but highly visible – element you focus exclusively on), what “cures” homelessness is affordable housing. Local officials ignored recommendations from Housing First experts, and even refused to accept their challenge to house just five people to see if the program is a good fit for the area.

        The Woodlands (a well-maintained, carefully supervised subsidized supportive apartment complex in Redding) is doing very well. The only problem is that Redding needs twenty more just like it.

  10. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    Could the Democrats look any more pathetic during the SOTU? Pelosi tearing up his speech at the end was the topper. Pelosi has disgraced herself, her office, and the House yet again. She thought it was a great symbolic move tearing up the speech. It will end up haunting her and her party.

    By the way, excellent speech by the president. Democrats have to be worried

    • Avatar Chad Magnuson says:

      To funny.
      Doug sees disgrace in Pelosi shredding trumps speech, but refuses to see the shredding trump has done to our constitution.
      The fact democrats even endured the lies and bravado trump took for achievements he claimed in the hour and a half rally , speaking to those defenders of ignorance, and racism, says more for the democrats than it does for the pompous republicans with hundred dollar bills in place of handkerchiefs in their suit coats could ever say.
      displayed in their

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        Chad, I didn’t say it was disgraceful…which it actually was…I said it was pathetic and shows the pettiness of the Democrat party. Remember the outrage from the left when a GOP representative shouted out ‘lie’ during Obama’s speech? But you are fine with the disrespect and and childish behavior of the left tonight? Oh yes…the left wing talking point of shredding the Constitution. You have to do better than that Chad. Remember way back when…you said to me the GOP may never win another election? This week shows the folly of that statement. The mistake of the impeachment, the weak line up of presidential candidates, poll numbers climbing for the president all but spells a 2020 rout for the president.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      I thought Pelosi’s shredding of the speech was petulant and juvenile. But spare me the outrage, Repubs. She could commit similar acts 1,000 times and still be well short of Trump’s count of petulantly, juvenile acts and statements.

  11. Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

    During the State of the Union address Trump awarded the Presidential Metal of Honor to RUSH LIMBAUGH. Why am I not surprised that he gave the highest civilian award to a flaming racist, misogynistic, xenophobic hate radio host?

    And of course he also lied about his contribution to the economy, took credit for Obama administration achievements, and touted robbing public schools of funding in favor of pouring money into what will be mainly inferior fundamentalist church schools that are subject to no public oversight.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      (sigh) Yes Patrecia, I got it…you believe every Republican, including me are flaming racists, misogynists and xenophobes. You left out that we are Nazis too. Good grief.

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        Doug Cook,

        Of course I never said that. However, Rush Limbaugh is the virtual Poster Boy for all of the traits I mentioned above.

        Fact Checkers are having a field day with all the self-serving lies and misrepresentations in Trump’s State of the Union address. And naturally you see nothing “disgraceful” in Trump’s refusal to shake Pelosi’s hand (well BEFORE she tore up his speech of lies).

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          I believe Trump not shaking Pelosi’s hand was not on purpose. I watched it back a few times and it looks like he turned just as she put her hand out. He didn’t shake Pence’s hand either. I also believe that Pelosi should be censured for her tearing up the speech. How do you think that looks to Middle America? You think that act will garner any votes in 2020? The Democrats can’t be any more self destructive.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Doug Cook,

            You’re just full of excuses for Trump (no matter what he does, or how obvious it is). And I’d say well over half of America is cheering Pelosi. Many of those “middle Americans” haven’t fared very well under Trump.

            https://tcf.org/content/commentary/trump-claims-economy-best-ever-11-facts-tell-different-story/?session=1

          • Avatar Chad Magnuson says:

            ”Pelosi should be censured for her tearing up the speech. How do you think that looks to Middle America?”

            OK. I represent middle America, and I thought it was an act of disgust at the many lies he spoke, the facts he twisted and the target of his message.
            Clearly trump has no desire to bring the country together.
            Clearly he was speaking to his base. Who by the way do not understand the difference between fact and fiction.
            Trump used the moment to reinforce his base.
            Middle America can see the difference between honesty and bravad.

            Tearing up the speech was a obvious act of telling the country what we think of your BS Mr. trump.

  12. Avatar Jobe says:

    Must be them Russian’s again. Dems will pull every dirty trick known. Remember the
    Hanging chide !

  13. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    President Pete, has a nice ring to it. Let’s see how long it takes the DNC to sabotage Buttigieg’s campaign. It must really frost the DNC that the two top candidates are Pete and Bernie.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      I really want to like Mayor Pete. He is easily the best politician and most cogent of the bunch. I just wish he wasn’t as far left as he is. If he was more moderate, he could pull in a lot of Independents.

  14. Avatar Steve Towers says:

    For me, the toughest part of Trump’s SOTU address was listening to him take credit for the economic trends that he inherited from Obama and merely kept riding, while repeatedly claiming that he’d reversed Obama’s failed policies.

    Trump is the most dishonest, cruel, egotistical, uneducated buffoon of a POTUS since Andrew Jackson. And at least Jackson was a military hero.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      When Trump was elected, all we heard was how the economy will crash, the stock market will crash, WWIII will break out. None of that happened, Presidents take credit for strong economies. They all do. Obama’s economic policies extended the recession. I’m sure if it was Hillary in office, you would give her credit. Sorry Steve, but this ‘uneducated buffoon is going to easily waltz into a 2nd term because of the buffoonery of the Democrats. Pelosi’s stunt will come back to haunt the party. The Dems have given Trump quite a few of great TV ad material.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        Yeah, Bush II’s policies don’t get the blame for the economy imploding at the end of his 8-year reign, but Obama’s policies get the blame for extending the Bush II near depression. No rabid partisanship there.

        Thanks largely to three-outrages-per-day Trump, Pelosi’s act will have a half-life of about 4 hours. Trump soliciting election interference from furriners and being the 3rd POTUS to be impeached for that crime isn’t even going to stick. You think Pelosi tearing up some paper will?

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          Who’s policy of pushing sub prime loans was the catalyst for the housing crash? Wasn’t Bush.
          The accumative effect of the Trump Derangement Syndrome by Pelosi and the Democrats will be a factor in the election. You think it was a slam dunk that Trump committed the crimes you speak of. If he did, Schiff would have charged him with actual crimes. He did not. It’s over Steve. Impeachment was a big fail for the Democrats. Trump’s approval rating is at 49%… Democrats are on their way to nominate a candidate that can’t win a general election. So yes… Pelosi’s stupid act will continue to resonate with the country. I always respected her for being a smart, shrewd politician. She is losing it now. She has lost control of her party

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            The legal theory of the current Attorney General is that a POTUS can’t be charged with actual crimes. And Schiff charged him with impeachable offenses, which is all he could do.

            Further, the Government Accountability Office said Trump violated the law by withholding money allocated to Ukraine by Congress. It doesn’t help the case trumpeted by Trump sycophants that he intentionally failed to notify Congress that he was doing so, because he knew it was an unlawful, slime-ball play that wouldn’t be tolerated.

            But Doug, you go ahead and keep claiming that it never happened. Or that it happened, but no crime was committed. Or that a crime was committed, but it wasn’t an impeachable offense. Or that….

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            The Great Recession of 2008 was a direct result of Republican-sponsored deregulation.

            The Glass-Steagall Act (both Democrats) was enacted in 1933 during the Great Depression. The Republican Congress passed the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act (all Republicans) in 1999, repealing Glass-Steagall. The stupidest thing Clinton ever did was to not veto the bill.

            In 2010 Obama signed the Dodd-Frank Act (all Democrats), which re-established regulatory oversight of banks and mortgage lenders. Since taking office, the Trump administration has been trying to gut it.

            On top of that, Trump complained bitterly since almost his first day in office that the Fed wouldn’t do his bidding and slash the prime interest rate in order to further boost the humming economy he inherited, so that he could brag of taking a hot economy and making it white hot. He only stopped when he found out he could brag about the status quo trajectory, pretending he created it, and his constituents would buy it.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Steve, even President Obama said repeal of Glass Steagal had nothing to do with the crash.
            “…during the recent financial crisis, commercial bank failures were largely driven by credit losses on real estate loans. The banks that failed generally pursued high??risk business strategies that combined nontraditional funding sources with aggressive subprime lending. Glass??Steagall would not have stopped any of this.”

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Obama was wrong.

            Obama continued the Clintonian tradition of carrying Wall Street’s water. Nobody’s perfect. You won’t catch me defending anything Obama (or Hillary) had to say in defense of Wall Street.

            During the 2008 crash, Lehman Brothers went bankrupt. Merrill Lynch, AIG, Bear Stearns, Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, and other Wall Street banks would have too, without being rescued. It wasn’t sub-prime lending to homeowners that sunk the big Wall Street (and British) banks. It was leverage-mania the did them in.

            There had been 120 banking crises involving bad lending between 1970 and the big crash—all had been fended off by the strength of the banks. At the time of the crash subprime loans were 0.005 of the assets of the big banks—a piddling. But when they went bad, it exposed the REAL problems. The reason for the crash was the staggering vulnerability of Wall Street, thanks to deregulation. The entire banking system was catastrophically undercapitalised and illiquid. As of 2008, Wall Street didn’t have the reserve muscle to fight off a mouse.

            The post-crash independent Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission (established by Congress) blamed the crash on a combination of historic deregulation of finance and recklessness by (greedy) bank executives.

            And let’s not forget that it was also big insurance companies (e.g., AIG) that went tits-up in the lake in the collapse, for the same reason—recklessly leveraging their assets. It wasn’t just the banks.

            So yeah, Doug. Nice try, but bzzzzzzzzzt. Wrong.

            And now Trump wants to do away with the Volker Rule. That’s the post-crash regulation that prohibits the big banks from gamboling with their own money. They can prudently invest the money on behalf of their customers, but they can’t recklessly gambol with their own assets. Trump wants to re-open the casinos on Wall Street. Moron.

      • Avatar Chad Magnuson says:

        You are not allowed to get away with revisionist history Doug.
        When trump was elected and during the run up to election the issue was not the economy.
        America was on the cusp of a very good economy.
        The major concern about trump was his disgraceful past, his cheating the system with planned bankruptcy schemes, his cheating small time contractors and vendors, his history of racism toward president Obama, Jewish residents in his rental apartments, did I mention his own words about grabbing women by the p…….y, or so, so many vile actions and words, and lastly his zero experience in governing which has been on display since day one and gives cause for his being removed from office.

        Doug, sorry you are guilty of rewriting history history to benefit trump.
        The middle class does not accept it.

        • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

          Of course. It was Trump’s vast proven corruption in his business dealings, his long history of blatant racism (front-and-center in his campaign), his open incitements to violence (which are responsible for multiple deaths and countless injuries), the fact that he’s an admitted serial sex criminal, his contempt for women in general, his promises to give right-wing “Christians” special privileges and treatment (boy has he delivered on that one), his ridicule of a disabled reporter, his plans to violate the basic rights of gay people, women, and other groups (another promise he’s delivering on in spades), his endless lies, his lack of transparency, and his obvious mental derangement.

          In my opinion (and in the opinions of decent people everywhere) Trump is a monster, and the people who constantly excuse and defend him are no better. When Trump is booted from office it’s going to take a tremendous amount of time and effort to replace all the lunatic religious right-wingers he’s virtually turned our federal government over to, and to undo all the damage he’s caused in general. The federal court system could be unsalvageable, and the Supreme Court may need to be expanded.

          • Avatar Gary Tull says:

            Not to simply pile on but I think the ‘Trump University’ scam should be noted as well. It was finalized when a California federal judge declared it a FRAUDULENT SCHEME and no other than con-man “Stable Genius” himself was court-ordered to settle with victims to the tune of 25 million in 2016.

            That is partly why it frustrates me to no end when I hear Repub defenders say, “Well, the Left wanted him out from the day he was inaugurated”.

            Well, yes indeed we did. For very good reasons right along!

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Yes Patrecia. That is why the Democrats lost in 2016 and will once again lose in 2020. The arrogant mindset that 61 million voters that don’t agree with you are are uneducated. You haven’t learned any lessons, have you?

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          “The middle class does not accept it”

          It was the middle class that elected him. And will reelect him. It is the Democrats that abandoned the middle class. That is why they lost. You think Sander’s policies will help the Middle class? How much will our taxes rise under Sanders?

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Doug Cook,

            Trump voters were generally the least educated white people in the country (not the middle class) – including the white evangelicals who put him over the top.

  15. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    The white outfits were okay, but if the female democrats in Congress really wanted to make a statement at the SOTU Address, they should have worn those weird frocks and hats from The Handmaid’s Tale.

  16. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    I have no buyers remorse over my write in vote for president in 2016, Mitt Romney. And I will probably write him in again as he has stood tall above all the other DC clowns.

    • Avatar Chad Magnuson says:

      I agree with your assessment of Romney’s standing tall.
      He stood with the correct side of justice today. The Democrats.

    • Avatar Gary Tull says:

      What is the point in writing someone in who is not running for the office you are writing him in for?

    • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

      It is ironic how Senator Romney stood and said how his faith and belief in God left him no choice but to convict Trump and join the Democrats who are so afraid of the mention of God that they want to kill religion.
      Senator Romney showed people whether they are Mormon, Christian, Catholic, Muslim, Buddist or any other religion that following their faith is not always easy but it is the right and moral thing to do.

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        Ridiculous statement Bruce. Democrats simply want to keep religion from controlling government, and forcing the general population to live according to its dictates. Everyone in this country is still perfectly free to worship and believe as they choose.

        • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

          Patricia, as usual anyone who disagrees with you is somehow ridiculous.

          • Avatar Larry Winter says:

            Bruce, this is a patently ridiculous statement. “the Democrats who are so afraid of the mention of God that they want to kill religion.

            Patrecia didn’t call you ridiculous, just your statement. She even explained why she thought so.

            But you just blew it off as Patrecia being Patrecia. Kind of a go to argument when you have nothing else.

          • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

            Larry, Patricia calling my statement as ridiculous is her opinion but to follow that with a false statement that the Democrats say people are free to worship and believe as they choose, she should have added but only if they do so as the Democrats dictate.

          • Avatar Larry Winter says:

            Bruce, your statement is ridiculous. It’s not an opinion to call BS on unsupported, outrageous claims that doesn’t even recognize that Democrats are capable of being religious themselves.
            But you say they want to “kill” religion. Ridiculous.

            The Constitution provides protections against State backed religious mandates as it also protects religious freedoms. So when she says that everyone is still perfectly free to worship and believe as they choose, it does come with Constitutional restraints.
            Blaming some Democrats for attempting to enforce those restraints is not akin to do as the Democrats dictate. It’s what the Constitution dictates. Republicans also use the Constitution to adjudicate laws that they feel are an overreach. That’s how it works. There is no Democratic policy to “kill religion”. My Congressman Huffman is only one of a few national politicians that publicly claims to be a Humanist. Not a believer. And even he isn’t out to “kill religion”.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            Bruce,

            Please tell me how anyone is being prevented from worshipping as they choose in their churches, homes, or in any other private venue to which they’ve been invited? They’ve even been able to do whatever they want in their businesses up to this point as long as the don’t violate federal anti-discrimination laws. However, Trump is fixing that. Soon they will be able to humiliate and upset unsuspecting people who walk into businesses that supposedly serve the public without consequence.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        Bruce — I challenge you to find a Democratic candidate for President, or really any prominent Democratic politician in DC, who is afraid to mention God, or—even farther out in left field—says they want to “kill religion.”

        The only prominent Democratic politician on the national stage who has been widely called “non-theist” is your state’s Sen. Kyrsten Sinema, and she’s far more comfortable embracing the label “bisexual” than “non-theist.”

        I would argue that conservatives exhibit far greater religious hostility than liberals—it’s just that they aim it mostly at non-Christians, those sects of Christianity they consider “cults” (often including LDS), and to an unreciprocated degree at liberal Christian denominations.

  17. Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

    Trump should have been impeached for the this alone (he’s obviously either utterly evil or insane). Past Presidential Medal of Freedom recipients have been people such as Rosa Parks, Helen Keller, Fred Rogers, John Steinbeck, Maya Angelo, Harper Lee, and Cesar Chavez. Trump may as well have given this award to Hitler or David Duke.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/rush-limbaughs-medal-of-freedom-from-trump-draws-backlash/ar-BBZGydD?ocid=spartandhp

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      And other winners were Ellen DeGeneres, Tom Brokow, Merle Streep, Elvis, Tom Hanks. Big deal.

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        And you can’t see the major difference between Rush Limbaugh and ANY of those people? I don’t believe a single one of them made a living by promoting racism, sexism, xenophobia, homophobia, and hatred and prejudice in general.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          …and it is my guess that you haven’t listened to one minute of Rush’s shows…but you are apparently an expert on who he is.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            You would be wrong – I’ve listened to Rush Limbaugh’s program many times. And (per my link above) countless other people agree with me, for obvious reasons.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            I’ve listened to more of the Rush Limbaugh Show than I care to admit, dating back to his local KFBK show in Sacramento. Some of it I get—his anti-environmentalism rocker featuring chainsaws and a chorus of “Timber!!!” was some fairly clever pandering to his core audience, and if you were hugely wounded by it, maybe you need to grow a thicker skin.

            But his huge contribution to our nation’s current extreme divisiveness? Nice legacy, @$$hole. His labeling of laws student and women’s rights advocate Sandra Flake as “a slut” and “a prostitute? Toxic. His “Magic Negro” bit on Obama? Racist AF. His repetition of conspiracy theories (e.g., the guy who murdered 50 Muslims in New Zealand is a closet liberal out to smear conservatives)? Shameless and soulless disinformation. Mocking a 12-year-old Chelsea Clinton as “the family dog”? What an absolute POS.

            Sure, it’s despicable for people to take any measure of joy in his advanced cancer. But let’s not forget when Rush mocked Michael J. Fox’s Parkinson’s disease symptoms, claiming that it was an act. Rush is sick with the Big C. That doesn’t mean he’s cured of being an anal orifice.

            Rush is wholly undeserving of the Medal of Freedom, regardless of the parade of harmless lightweights (Ellen, Elvis) who have received the award in the past.

            I’ll also always hate that Rush co-opted “My City was Gone,” by The Pretenders—history’s greatest rock song about urban sprawl. Man, that bass/drum combo is SO in the pocket.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thu8DWsirJo

    • Avatar Chad Magnuson says:

      Giving the Medal of Freedom is as close as you get to giving the honor to Hitler.
      Rush exhibits all the same hateful traits of both Hitler and trump.

      It was among the most phony and disrespectful acts trump could have pulled off with a national audience looking on.
      We are used to these disgusting actions from trump and I doubt it is the last. He has many more in his quiver to aim at decency and moral values.

  18. Avatar Larry Winter says:

    When Trump said this at the National Prayer meeting this morning he actually said something profound that I agree with. Too bad the irony went right over his head. I wonder though, how many in attendance squirmed a bit.

    “I don’t like people who use their faith as justification for doing what they know is wrong. Nor do I like people who say ‘I pray for you’ when they know that that’s not so,”

    • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

      That was probably aimed at Senator Romney.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      As usual, Trump is too stupid to realize that this thinly-veiled swipe at Mitt Romney makes absolutely no sense. He’s suggesting Romney knows his vote was the wrong thing to do? How does that make even the faintest hint of sense? Was an idiot.

      As Romney said before casting his vote to convict Trump (I’m paraphrasing):

      “Why would I do this if not for the fact that my conscience demands it? We all know the President did as he is charged. Most of us understand the extent to which it betrayed the Constitution. This is the most difficult decision of my life, but I’m a deeply religious man, and I took and oath before God. I know what lies ahead. I know what this will cost me personally.”

      The man was fighting back tears as he said it.

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        I think the president’s comment was more directed to Pelosi than Romney

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          Possibly, but that’s a minority opinion, maybe in part because in the preceding sentence he mentions Republicans.

          I think the reason he’s almost certainly referring to Romney is because it’s Romney who famously and pointedly invoked his religious beliefs as the reason for his guilty vote. Not Pelosi.

          • Avatar Steve Towers says:

            I just watched as much of Trump’s one-hour statement on his acquittal as I could stand. He’s reciting lists of his ardent GOP supporters (“This is a hoax….Polly want a cracker”), those who were lukewarm (“I wish he hadn’t made the call….bad call.”), and one who hid behind his religion, and did it because he’s bitter that he failed to get elected President. He’s obviously referring to Romney.

            At about 19:30.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hJ5XKU0UgU

      • Avatar Gary Tull says:

        Perhaps the most powerful speech of his political career, showing genuine depth and sincerity. He might have made a difference. Unfortunately, there were only four senators in the chamber to hear him. Three Democrats and one Republican.

        • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

          And watched by millions of American voters on the news.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          This is the same guy that Democrats called a racist, misogynist, animal abuser. t’s been hilarious watching the left declare Romney their heroic heartthrob for taking on President Trump. In 2012, Mitt was a vulture capitalist who couldn’t work a grocery store check out, abused his dog, bullied a kid in college for cutting his hair and helped murder a woman with cancer.

          Your new lionized savior has voted with the president 95% of the time.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Doug — Your fellow Republican Bruce is the Romney fan. I’m still not a supporter, though I admire his ethics and fortitude on this one particular vote. I don’t even care for his “I did it because of my religion” BS, because it implies that you have to be deeply religious to recognize right from wrong. I just think it’s ironic that the religious right is going to crucify him for abandoning Der Mandarine Führer.

            Far as I’m concerned, Mitt Romney will aways be the guy who said this:

            “There are 47 percent who are with (Obama), who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe that government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that’s an entitlement and government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what. I mean, the president starts off with 48, 49 … I mean, he starts off with a huge number. These are people who pay no income tax; 47 percent of Americans pay no income tax. So our message of low taxes doesn’t connect. He’ll be out there talking about tax cuts for the rich. I mean, that’s what they sell every four years. And so my job is not to worry about those people.”

            That’s what he thinks. The rich should get richer, and half the country are parasites. I don’t put Romney in the same company as Sen. John McCain, whom I truly admired.

          • Avatar Gary Tull says:

            Doug, I did not say he is my new lionized savior. You did. I acknowledged that he was the only Repub senator with backbone who stood up and did the right thing with depth and sincerity. I am quite aware of Mr. Romney’s past.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            I’ll take him on his word that he voted his conscience. I have no problem with that other than I think he was wrong. In the end, though. It is meaningless. His half of vote to impeach doesn’t change a thing. Gallup has the president’s approval rating the highest of his presidency at 49%. Pelosi’s first instincts were correct. She knew this was a mistake and the Democrats will suffer for going down this road.

          • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

            Washington Post, “Mitt Romney is exactly what the Framers had in mind for a Senator”.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            You accused a lot of people of making Romney our heroic heartthrob and lionized savior. The response you got was predictable, because none of us think or said that. But instead of acknowledging that you mischaracterized our love for Romney, you move the goalposts, as you often do. Now it’s about poll numbers.

            I read an article today about a political scientist who posits that today’s elections have almost nothing to do with convincing swing voters by persuading them into your camp on the issues. We’re too entrenched—people don’t care about issues. They only care about tribalism—about winning.

            Of all who post here, your oft-repeated falling back on approval ratings seems to support that political scientist’s point. You assume Pelosi’s only responsibilities are to shift the polls favorably and to win. You apparently can’t imagine her doing what’s right in spite of the likely consequences. No, it’s 100% about winning.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Bruce — And Mitch McConnell must be the antithesis of what the Framers had in mind.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Doug — BTW, that political scientist argues that instead of persuading swing voters, today’s election are all about persuading your own base to get out and vote. Elections are won and lost primarily on energizing and mobilizing core voters to actually vote now.

            She’s not 100% correct, of course, but it’s an interesting theory. And she did better than any of the pollsters in predicting how many seats the Demos would pick up in the House in the last mid-terms—missed it by one seat.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Me looking at poll numbers is only to point out that the impeachment was a net negative for the Trump haters that wanted to damage the president. Same as what happened to Clinton.
            If you don’t think voters care about issues…wait until Sanders gets the nomination and he has to start giving details of his ridiculous policies he wants to push.

  19. Avatar C Giacomelli says:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FoLHFWC2PSI

    An important reminder to teach and cultivate virtue in our society.

  20. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    I have a feeling the Democratic race is going to come down to Sanders and Bloomberg.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      Bloomberg? Too early to write him off, but not many Demo voters support rich guys on the basis of generally worshiping the rich. I don’t see him check-booking his way to the top.

  21. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Finally some Common Sense in the GOP! Too bad he doesn’t stand a snow balls chance but he called it the way it actually is.They drank the Kool Aid…about the only thing he didn’t say!

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/02/06/joe-walsh-challenging-trump-gop-nomination-taught-me-my-party-is-cult/

  22. Avatar Gary Tull says:

    WTFN — Trump’s Secret Service personnel complacent in Trump Pocketing Tax Payers $ from inflated room rates at Mar A Lago and Bedminster … Missing Payment Records?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/secret-service-has-paid-rates-as-high-as-650-a-night-for-rooms-at-trumps-properties/2020/02/06/7f27a7c6-3ec5-11ea-8872-5df698785a4e_story.html

  23. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    The most important ramification of the impeachment circus is that the Democrats will more than likely lose the House in 2020.

    • Avatar Chad Magnuson says:

      Democrats losing the House is nothing more than a right wing dream.
      As improbable as Lamalfa losing district One in our neighborhood.

      As the impeachment process moved through the House every person with any understanding of how the senate would act knew the outcome. There really was no surprise. There was an obvious disappointment in the petty loyalty to trump, far more unexpected that anticipated. 67 votes to convict was never going to happen even if there were witnesses and evidence.

      While the results of the acquittal have created an immediate bump for trumps popularity, something he is very capable of losing in a short time, it has also raised a determination to unify opposition to his band of lemmings in the senate.

      The house will not be turned over to the right, but the senate could be an easy target for democrats to make strong gains.

      A trump victory in November would be meaningless with a Democrat controlled House and Senate.

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        “…Democrats losing the House is nothing more than a right wing dream.”

        This from a man that told me in no uncertain terms years ago that the GOP may never win another national election. The Democrat party is a mess right now. Pelosi has lost control of the party, the far left wing has taken over and the party has completely abandoned the middle class. If Sanders is the nominee he could potentially lose 45 states. That is why the party is in full blown panic right now. No way the Senate turns Democrat, nobody believes that. And it is very unlikely that the House doesn’t become GOO majority. Especially if Saunders becomes the nominee. The middle class won’t put up with the doubling of our taxes

        • Avatar Chad Magnuson says:

          More revisionist history from Doug.
          Who in their right mind would say such a thing. That they would never win a national election. I certainly have made claims of the Republican Party being in disarray. Being ultra pro big business, the current tax breaks trump has promoted are significantly pro business.
          While continuing to be net negative for working families.
          The trump healthcare , what is it? Does anyone know?
          Maintaining preconditions as a policy defies what we’ve been told by trump.
          What about reduced Medicare, social security, “government schools”, and now trumps attacks on people’s religion, and PRAYER, while using that same religious attacks on women’s health rights.

          I’m not as convinced that the MESS is in the Democrat party.

  24. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    Voter turnout for the New Hampshire Democratic primary surpassed the record set in 2008, when Obama was running for his first term.

    If energizing your party’s base and motivating them to come out and vote is how you win national elections, this is a good sign for the Democrats, no matter who comes out on top.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      In addition, Trump has more than 120,000 votes in NH. In 2012, Obama got 49,080 total votes. George W. Bush received 53,962 votes in 2004. And in 1996, incumbent President Bill Clinton received 76,797 votes in New Hampshire’s primary.

      So it looks like both parties are energized

      • Avatar Larry Winter says:

        Doug, just to put things in perspective, no other incumbent ever campaigned in New Hampshire in their party’s primary. When the Republican primary was contested in 2016, there were over 284,000 Republican votes cast. Why does Trump think he needs to campaign in uncontested primaries? He’s scared.

        • Avatar Sue says:

          Trump doesn’t come across scared? Trump doesn’t get fair coverage in MSM, he campaigns to show his base that we are yuge in numbers. If I’d paid attention to media, I’d feel alone in my support of Trump. Two weeks ago media was stating poll numbers with Biden clearly in the lead; nothing could have been further from the truth. 328m American Citizens and these Dem candidates are the best options and impeachment their best platform.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          Why? Because he likes to troll the Democrats. He will continue to hold rallies in the states the Dems are campaigning in just to steal their thunder. It’s Trump being Trumpian.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Pfffft. Trump is too jacked up on Adderall to have a cogent “steal their thunder” strategy. He’s just indulging his inner attention whore. It just so happens that his worship-the-rich-and-famous shoe-polishers and camp-followers eat it up, to his benefit.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Pfffft. Trump is too jacked up on Adderall to have a cogent “steal their thunder” strategy. He’s just indulging his inner attention whore, and it just so happens that his worship-the-rich-and-famous followers eat it up.

  25. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    In breaking news right now. Is OJ in Phoenix? Live TV shows a slow moving white SUV being pursued by multiple LE on westbound I10.

  26. Avatar Candace says:

    Bruce, no, it’s not OJ, it’s our constitution; they’re giving it a LE escort through Phoenix due to credible threats against it. Then again, Trump says he has the backing of LE, the military and “the bikers”. I hope it doesn’t have to stop for gas.

  27. Avatar Gary Tull says:

    Kamala Harris: “Did ‘president’ Trump ask you to investigate political rivals”?

    William Barr: “gmsib well, hfdogbosd, hmpfs”

    Kamala Harris: “Hinted”…..”Suggested”

    William Barr: “gargle hmph. Hwodnfosfd”

  28. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    Representative Mac Thornberry (R-Texas) is upset about the Pentagon shifting billions of dollars in earmarked military funding to Tangerine Twitler’s border wall.

    Mac sez: “Attempts to do so undermines the principle of civilian control of the military and is in violation of the separation of powers within the constitution. The re-programming announced today is contrary to the Congress’ constitutional authority and I believe that it requires Congress to take action.”

    LOL. How adorable. He thinks we’re still a functioning democracy.

    • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

      Coyotes are now using camouflage ladders that blend right into the wall – that is, where the wind doesn’t just blow the things down.

      And Williams Barr’s pretense that he’s not just carrying out Trump’s orders to give token sentences to his criminal buddies is a joke.

      • Avatar Gary Tull says:

        Barr has been obviously fixing criminal cases in trump’s favor right along- ever since he basically conned the American public in accepting his redacted and misleading “summary” of the Mueller Report. In Barr’s version, many critical details were of course left out as we now know.

        However, a silver lining might possibly be on the horizon: Suppose AG Barr should resign under pressure. It seems QT Bone Spurs (less his powerful fixer) could fall shortly after a speedy stream-lined impeachment hearing where he is obviously floundering and found utterly unfit to hold office. I think by then there may be a chance that four Repub. senators will be ready to do the right thing… I might be a bit overly optimistic in regard to four conscientious Repub. senators.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      The SCOTUS ruled last year that the president can divert funds for construction of the wall. Hey, look at that…a functioning Democracy.

  29. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    What is your proof, Gary that Barr has been fixing criminal cases? It’s time to give it up. Keep bringing up the dud which is the Mueller report. That didn’t pan out for you… impeachment didn’t pan out for you. You really think bringing up more fake impeachment charges will be good for the Dems. Yes, Gary…I realize that the Dems are panicking about their field of inadequate candidates. Looking like a NY billionaire or 80 year old Communist will get the nomination. But, hey… continue with your obsession with the president. That’s all you have.

    • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

      Over a thousand prosecutors are now calling for Barr’s resignation, and are asking that current employees under Barr report any further cover-ups and corrupt activities on his part.

      And of course the deck was stacked against impeachment by a bunch of Republicans who don’t have an ounce of ethics or principles between them.

      Finally, Sanders is not a “communist”. In fact, he’s not even a socialist (take it from someone who was raised by REAL socialists).

      • Avatar Gary Tull says:

        William Barr ABC interview 02/13/2020 in a nutshell:
        garglehmph hwodnfosfdum garglegmsib wellfthdogmosd,hmpfs…thisparticularcase, garglegargle.. ImgonadowhatIthinkisrite..garglegargleimpossibletodomyjob..thee..thee..constantbackcommentary… IassuremyworkandnotfollowordersfromthecrookedbastardintheWH..Butiwillcontinue doing..umh thatbastardsdirtywork..gargleumph!
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgkoCSFPG1A

    • Avatar Larry Winter says:

      Communist? Lol.

      New study published in the Lancet that concludes the Medicare for All Act will save Americans 450 billion a year in health care costs and will save 68,000 lives compared to the status quo.

      Commie Bastard!

      https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(19)33019-3/fulltext

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        Estimates by the liberal Urban Institute and the conservative Mercatus Center agree that single-payer proposals would cost over $3 trillion per year — more than double the amount currently raised by the federal government in individual income taxes.

        Of course, none of the Democratic presidential candidates has yet specified who would be made to pay for Medicare for All, but proposals to increase federal spending by over $3 trillion per year are almost certainly incompatible with pledges not to increase taxes on the middle class.

        • Avatar Larry Winter says:

          And then there’s this unfortunate part of the studies you mention.

          “The flip side is that the study finds the plan would provide large savings to American households, who would no longer have to pay premiums or deductibles for their care, resulting in $886 billion in savings for people over 10 years. The plan would also provide insurance to everyone, reducing the number of uninsured from 32.2 million people to zero, the study found. ”
          https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/465894-new-study-full-scale-medicare-for-all-costs-32-trillion-over-10-years.
          https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/465894-new-study-full-scale-medicare-for-all-costs-32-trillion-over-10-years

          Americans will pay for it and Americans will save money doing it.

          Commie Bastards!

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            You know dang well that the estimate of $3 trillion a year will grow, what government program does not? Since when has the government done a good job of running a program? Sure…some Americans may save some money. Does that justify raising government spending by 60%? And that is just for Medicare for all, let’s add in tuition forgiveness, and all of the other nutty proposals of Bernie’s. The average workers pay $6,015 a year for health insurance, with the employer paying an average of $14,561. You honestly believe our taxes won’t go up by more than $6k? Of course it would.

            And to top it off, the health care will be worse, The government would have no other option but to ration health care…that same as Canada, UK and other single payer health care.

            I have been using the VA for a about 7-8 years now. I finally bailed from them, and now use private insurance. That is a gov’t run health care system that fails many users. I had issues with my VA primary care doctor, and asked to switch doctors, they refused my request.

            Weren’t you concerned not to long ago with Trumps deficit spending? But you now seem fine to increase federal spending by 60% just for health care. Interesting.

  30. Avatar Larry Winter says:

    Expanding public schooling to include college?
    Nutty.
    Guarantee health care for everyone. Homeland security at it’s most primal definition.
    Nutty.
    Maybe you should be a peer reviewer in the Lancet.

    I’ve never commented on deficit spending. I’m a liberal. Remember we luv to spend others’ money.
    What are you that supports a president that luvs to spend others’ money? A conserberal? A libative?

  31. Avatar Chad Magnuson says:

    Sorry about your bad experience at the va.
    But va is a limited program . Limited to veterans.
    It would be better if it were a Medicare program. Although if you are Medicare eligible the va bills Medicare. Just at it bills private insurers. If appropriate.
    I go regularly to the va for my basic healthcare needs. No major issues with the care or my doc who I’ve had for 6 years. My first doc was for 5 years.

    I suggest you contact LaMalfa if you’re not happy with this socialist system.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      That’s the point Chad. If government run health care doesn’t work on a limited program like the VA, how is it going to work for everyone in the country?

      • Avatar Larry Winter says:

        Doug, re read Chad’s comment. Nowhere does he say it “doesn’t work”. He even defines the word “limited” that doesn’t reflect on how good the program is for veterans. It’s a matter of scale. “It would be better if it were a Medicare program”
        A matter of scale, not quality.
        So maybe try to explain “your point” again in this context.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          The failures of the VA are well documented and well known. I am the one that said the VA doesn’t work, and it is not because of funding. It is because it is run by the government. Now you want the government to run the entire health care system for 300 million people? Yeah, good luck with that. Look what happened when Obama had the government take over the student loan program, how did that work out for the country?
          I have yet to hear how this plan will be paid for. How is increasing federal spending by 60% going to work without destroying the economy? Why did Sander’s Virginia scrap their plan for universal health care for their state? Because it was too expensive and unworkable.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Doug — Ultimately, WE pay for what we get, one way or the other. If your employer is paying all or half of your premiums, how much more that employer can afford to pay you in salary is reduced by that amount—it’s a zero-sum game.

            WE pay twice the annual per capita rate for healthcare of all of the countries in Northern and Western Europe that have socialized medicine. Their healthcare is better in the currencies of both health outcomes and satisfaction.

            What part of better care at half the cost do you not get? Americans spend almost $4 trillion per year on healthcare. The European models—reducing per-capita costs in half—would cut that by $1 trillion to $2 trillion. The entire DOD budget is less than $1 trillion per year.

            The healthcare hit to our GDP is ridiculous—close to 20 percent. We could be doing SO MUCH MORE with that money. With just one year’s $1 trillion savings, we could support the equivalent of 167 four-person missions to Mars.

            I’ll say it again: Your opposition to this no-brainer isn’t driven by logic. Like so many conservative points of view, it’s driven by fear of change.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            As for “Sander’s Virginia” (I think you mean Sanders’ Vermont), it didn’t scrap single-payer because it was too expensive and unworkable…..it was never even implemented. It was scrapped because it was politically untenable to even start it. So the question is, why is it politically so hard to sell?

            You, Doug, are the poster child for why single-payer is so hard to sell. Yes, taxes go up to pay for it…..and that’s where many people stop listening, including you. It’s very difficult to get some people to consider two variables at the same time, and harder still to convince them that as their income and taxes go up, their medical costs will decline, and there is a net financial benefit. Point out that we could adopt any one of a half-dozen European models and have better results for cheaper, and some people get even more deaf.

            “European models! This is ‘Murica! Everything we do is bester, ’cause this is ‘Murica!”

            There’s another reason why it’s tough to sell. People are selfish and petty. If they’ve got decent medical insurance, it’s because they’re smart and got a job with good benefits—screw everyone else. Labor unions fall in this arena of me-firstism. They sell their value to workers as returns in the form of hard-won benefits. What happens to unions when the most important of those benefits disappears? (In Europe, the labor unions have survived just fine—92% membership in Iceland, 67% in Sweden, 55% in Belgium, 37% in Italy, etc. Europe’s unions are doing far better than in the U.S., where membership is down to about 10%.)

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            WE are not going to pay for single payer. The govt can’t collect enough taxes to pay for it. So again, how are we going to pay for a 60% increase in federal spending? or are you willing to just keep our debt growing and growing? Funny …but I had these same arguments in 2010 about Obamacare…when I complained about it not being a workable solution, the same criticisms were tossed at me. I was told how great ACA would be. How all the uninsured would now have access to insurance. Hah…goid one. Obamacare was a flop…by the way, what makes you so convinced that UHC will provide better health care? I don’t know many that believe that.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Doug — We already pay for healthcare, so paying less in taxes than we currently pay in premiums to fund Medicare for All somehow doesn’t compute for you….like I said, it’s hard for some people to handle more than one variable at a time. We could be fully taxed for the cost of Medicare for all, and be money ahead. The idea that it would run up the debt is folly, unless for some reason you think health care should just be added to the debt (as Republicans seem to believe since the advent of the Reagan Revolution).

            I don’t base what I believe on polls or popularity contests….

            1. I don’t know who told you the ACA was the end-all, but it wasn’t me. From the beginning, I’ve said it was a flawed compromise designed to get support from a few Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats—a failed strategy. I’ve always said that we should just adopt one of the European systems that work better, at less cost.

            2. The reason I think Medicare for All would provide better healthcare is because single-payer systems in more than a half-dozen European countries provide better healthcare FOR ABOUT HALF THE COST. Those are my data—other functioning healthcare systems. All you have is political orthodoxy—the gum’mint f***s everything up.

            You and other conservatives think it’s impossible to replicate Europe’s success? Why is that? Because we’re too effing stupid?

  32. Avatar Candace says:

    The US already rations healthcare. It uses an individual’s “Pay to Play” level of economic status as its rationing model. It’s immoral. If I have to pay higher taxes in order to have affordable, quality healthcare for all, so be it. I’d much rather have a smaller home than a neighbor who died because they couldn’t afford not to. Guess that makes me a Communist?

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      There are millions of people in this country who see their health insurance benefit as a measure of their virtue. They don’t want others to be given what they have, because that would remove a portion of their self-identity as successful people, in contrast to all the losers.

      Sad, but true.

      You don’t have to kick over too many rocks in Shasta County to find such people. I know whole families who consider themselves über-conservatives, dead against government handouts single-payer health insurance. The entire family working government jobs, getting sweet government benefits and racking up sweet government pensions.

      • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

        Steve, yeah I am one of those. I was sitting next to someone in a bar in Redding and listening to them complain how that to collect welfare they had to occasionally clean toilets at rest areas. I cleaned toilets full time to receive my health insurance. I raised a family of five, plus an occasional foster kid and an exchange student, in a 1200 sq ft house in Anderson. I now live in a 1200 sq ft house in Phoenix with seven. How big is everybody on here, who is concerned about their carbon foot print or the poor, house or will my question be deflected as usual?

        • Avatar candace says:

          Bruce, listening to some slob in a bar complaining about having to occasionally work in order to collect their welfare check doesn’t seem like a reasonable argument against single payor healthcare. You could just as easily have sat next to a government employee laughing and bragging about doing as little as possible to earn their paycheck. While both exist (they do, I’ve met them), neither of those people are admirable, worth listening to or are representative of people like myself who support single-payor. Hard working people such as yourself are losing everything they worked so hard for (their home, life-savings, etc.) in order to pay for hospital care, doctor visits and quality of life medicine for themselves and their families. To me, the fact that I worked hard and sacrificed time away from my children to help raise and support my family doesn’t mean I own the right to choose who’s worthiest of living or dying due to a lack of access to affordable, accessible healthcare; even the a**holes.

          • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

            Candace, people like me? I am entitled to my opinion and nowhere do I condemn the poor, like some on here, but rather have helped the poor all my life. I have a pension and SS and healthcare because I worked for it. To be put in a blanket category that takes advantage of those benefits I earned has never been acceptable to me.
            To be told that I brag about my virtue that I earned and puts me above others less fortunate is a blatant untruth.
            I lived and live in a 1200 sq ft house because it filled my needs unlike others who had to have larger homes so they could brag how great they are. The losers are not the poor but those well off who complain about others who are well off not doing enough.
            “Why is it Greed to keep what one has earned but not Greed to take what others have earned?”, Thomas Sowell.

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        A person working a government job is much different than someone taking handouts. I worked a government job for 20 years, and I earned every penny that i got. I could have made much more in the Private sector. That is why we get those benefits…the sacrafices we make serving our country

        • Avatar Larry Winter says:

          Doug, did you notice any cost overruns? Inefficiencies? Did you think of quitting because government can’t run anything right? Why did you stay on working for such a terrible employer, as you categorize government run entities, and sacrifice to boot? Are the people working for the VA sacrificing their lives also to earn benefits? Why does their employer suck but yours was apparently tolerable?

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          A person with a career in government who makes/made their living suckling on the taxpayer teat maybe ought not to bitch so long and hard about how awful government is and how it can’t do anything right. It makes that person look like a crass opportunist, an ingrate, and a hypocrite.

          I suppose you will counter that everything you personally touched as a gum’mint employee was magically 110% worth it to the taxpayer, because you were the exception to the incompetence rule. YOU earned every penny, but all those other people….God, what a worthless lot.

          • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

            What exactly is a government employee sucking on the taxpayer dime?
            Is it the city manager who makes more than any governor and wants to cut pensions and wages for police, firefighters, city clerks and others who actually do the work, sometimes hazardous while keeping their own wages and pensions?
            Is it the College President or School Superintendent that wants to cut teacher salaries and privatize classified employees but continues with their own high wage and pension?
            What exactly is a Government employee sucking on the taxpayer dime?

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            I hope I’m not being misunderstood, Bruce. Of the three adults who live under my roof, two are public servants. I lasted less than a week in a government job, but a good chunk of my career was spent working on government contracts. I may think public safety and city management pensions are out of control and unsustainable, but I don’t hold that against the people who are getting them.

            I don’t know why you think I’m lumping you with “I got mine….screw you” types. I’m not. (I’m rarely a lumper, though I do it on occasions. For example, I think Trump supporters are authoritarian proto-Nazis.) I was narrowly criticizing hypocrites like you-know-who—the guy who thinks gum’mint employees are lazy, blundering parasites, ‘cept for him.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Steve, it never ceases to amaze me your ability to put words in my mouth. Show me where I said government employees are lazy, blundering parasites. Show me where I ever mentioned a government employee…other than saying I wanted a new doctor at the VA. Even then, I didn’t say why. I didn’t call him lazy or blundering. Who here doesn’t think the government wastes money? Look no further than the idiotic high speed rail… remember it was going to cost $34 billion and take us to LA in 3 hours? Now it is a $80 billion slow speed train from Bakersfield to Madera. Who do I blame? The politicians ..not the workers.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Doug — It’s funny, and telling, that I didn’t mention anyone by name, but you recognized yourself in the description.

            We’ve been down this road before. You post a lot here, and you repeatedly say things like this: “Since when has the government done a good job of running a program?” And, “The failures of the VA are well documented and well known… It is because it is run by the government.” You have a track record.

            Yours are across-the-board, circular-reasoning dismissals of government’s ability to do anything right (except for the small part that you played, of course). The government will fail because it’s the government. The government is made up largely of government workers, so the government’s failure is their failure.

            And sorry, you don’t get to blame it entirely on politicians. You right-wingers can’t have it both ways. Either the entrenched deep-state bureaucrats that *really* run everything exist, or they doesn’t.

            Lastly, your high-speed rail moving-of-the-goalposts made me laugh. As an example of a government failure, you cite something that doesn’t even exist yet. That’s not even picking of low-hanging fruit. More like imaginary fruit.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            So…we have to wait until the choo choo train is built before we determine it wasted money? You can’t look at the current plan and see for yourself that a $80 billion train from Bakersfield to Madera is a waste of money? That is not moving the goalposts, it is an example of the government wasting money. And again, putting words in my mouth, saying I called government workers lazy parasites is very dishonest, no matter how you spin it

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Doug — Again, I didn’t say you called government workers lazy, blundering parasites. You just assumed I was talking about you.

            We were talking about government employees and medical benefits, and you switched the topic to your favorite infrastructure whipping boy as an example of how the government blows everything it touches. Moving the goalposts.

  33. Avatar Larry Winter says:

    Stat of the day.
    A New Yorker with $500 dollars in the bank buys a Metro ticket for $2.5o, spent the same portion of his worth as Mike Bloomberg spending $350,000,000 for TV campaign ads

  34. Avatar Candace says:

    Bruce, I didn’t say you condemn the poor . I know you volunteer quite frequently to help the poor. Neither did I say you’re not entitled to your opinion; I’d never say that. You have just as much right to your opinion as anyone else. You asked if anyone would answer you or if your question would be “deflected as usual”. So I figured I’d answer, that’s all. My point was
    that in my opinion using the example of a some guy at a bar complaining about having to work for his welfare check is no more helpful than using an example of a government worker bragging (not you!) about doing as little as necessary for their check as an argument for or against Single Payor healthcare for the exact reason you mentioned – it puts people in a blanket category. The rest of what I said was my personal opinion about our current healthcare system’s failings and that I believe healthcare should be a human right rather than something earned. My apology if it sounded like I was attacking you or your work ethic personally, not my intent.

  35. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    The problem for me, and many others, is I do not understand exactly what Medicare for all, or single payer, or European style healthcare actually is or how it will be paid for. I see all types of proposals to tax the rich but the rich live mostly in California and they already, posted on these pages, complain that California already pays for the Red states, where the uninsured poor live, so why give them more to complain about?

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Steve thinks that we will pay for UHC. If that is true, that we pay for all government programs, then why do we have a $22 trillion debt

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        What I have said, repeatedly, is that we CAN pay for it and save money if we simply adopt one of a half-dozen European models that trade premiums for taxes. We wouldn’t need to go a dime into debt—the money is already being spent, at twice the rate that it needs to be.

        We are $22 trillion in debt because “Reagan proved deficits don’t matter,” as V.P. Dick Cheney once put it. Yes, Cheney meant that deficits don’t hurt the GOP politically, but because they don’t hurt, Republicans got addicted to running up the nation’s credit cards so that the rich could enjoy huge tax cuts. The federal debt was less than $1 trillion when Reagan took office. Each successive GOP administration has contributed more to the federal debt as a proportion of GDP than any succeeding Democratic administration, including Obama’s administration, which began by having to checkbook our way out of the deepest recession since the Great Depression. (Much of that spending to rescue financial institutions that got reckless as a result of GOP deregulation.)

        It doesn’t have to be that way……but it is, because Republican rubes worship the rich and famous and go along with the plan to concentrate an ever-increasing proportion of the nation’s wealth in the hands of the wealthiest Americans, mostly via irresponsible tax cuts. I’ll never understand why the GOP’s groundlings are so gullible, but they are.

  36. Avatar Candace says:

    Bruce, the only way I know of to find out about things I don’t understand is to find out about things I don’t understand. I believe that’s my responsibility as a person who votes. Granted, there are as many opinions on Healthcare as there are people and it’s hard to get past all the noise and look at facts ( as much as we know them) to figure out the things that do or don’t make sense to you or I. As far as rich people in CA complaining, who cares? For me, personally, that doesn’t inform my vote one way or the other. Again, that’s me, not you.

    • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

      Candace, finding facts in all the UHC options is impossible because of the lies that are put forth, from both sides. I was told that the ACA wouldn’t affect my own health plan but it did or I was told it did. My costs went up because I, pushing 70, had to have birth coverage and the insurers had to cover the added cost of all the new insurers.
      As far as rich Californians I guess I should add a satire to some comments.

  37. Avatar Candace says:

    Doug, So your logic is that because the government wastes money they should not be in charge of running healthcare? Since our government wastes money all the time (we all have differences of opinion regarding what’s wasteful and what isn’t) it would seem to me that the logic that follows that way of thinking would be that the government should not be in charge of running anything. At least as far as using wasteful government spending as the jumping off point to your argument.

  38. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    I believe the government should not be as involved in our lives and they are. I support a limited government as designed by our founding fathers. It seemed like just a few weeks ago, everyone on here was criticizing Trump’s deficit spending. But now you are ok with increasing federal spending by 60%,? How do you reconcile that? Steve is wrong in his assertion that we will pay for UHC. No, they can’t raise enough taxes to pay for it. What programs would you like to see cut to help pay for a $30 trillion in 20 years program?

    • Avatar Candace says:

      Doug, why is your only alternative to
      cut government funded social programs? Why not implement government spending cuts? Say, on the bloated military budget? ICE? (Trump’s golfing )? Also, to my way of thinking, the “everyone’s saying” it as argument isn’t much of an argument since of course I’m not “everyone” and neither are you.

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        Seems you take after Steve and want to put words in my mouth. When did I ever write that the only alternative is to cut social programs. I have never said that. If I was King, I would cut every government program…yes, even the military and my other favorite programs by 10%. That would force them to deal with waste.

        • Avatar candace says:

          Doug, my assumption, my apology, however cutting military spending by 10% doesn’t compare to cutting some social programs by 10%. The latter having a much greater impact on the people who depend on those programs. It’s nowhere near an equal playing field when you talk about an across the board 10% cut. One makes a dent while the other one could deal a fatal blow to some worthwhile and already underfunded social programs.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Candace, I can make the argument that the military is just as important as social programs. 2/3rds of our federal budget is entitlement spending. You have to address this if you want to have any chance of dealing with our incredibly high debt. Not every federal social program is needed, or needs to have their budget increased every year. I use SNAP as an example, during the recession the food stamp budget grew from $17 billion annually to $84 billion in just 5 years. . Ok, I get that….there were millions who lost their jobs, unemployment was high. Fast forward to 2020, now the economy is strong, unemployment is at near record lows. Do you think we still need a $84 trillion SNAP budget? If anyone even brings up the possibility of cutting the budget of SNAP…you get the hysterical claims of dying children in the streets. Heck, you don’t even have to suggest cutting a budget, just bring up slowing the rate of growth and you get the hyperbolic comments about ‘slashing’ the budget.
            Can you give me an example of a federal program that is under funded?
            Cutting budgets by 10% will force agencies to deal with waste, reduce fragmentation, overlap, and duplication within federal agencies and programs.

            So we start by asking a few basic questions…
            1. Would the program serve the American people more effectively if it were administered and financed by the private sector?
            2. Would the program serve the American people more effectively if it were administered by state or local governments?
            3. Is the program wasteful or duplicated?

            The GAO identified over 800 items that can ‘reduce costs, increase revenues, and improve agencies’ operating effectiveness’. As of March 2019, Congress and executive branch agencies have fully addressed 436 actions (54 percent) and partially addressed 185 actions (23 percent). This has resulted in approximately $262 billion in financial savings. That’s a good chunk of money saved by just dealing with the inefficiencies of federal programs. Not every cut in programs will cause hardships.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Doug — We spend more on our military than the next ~10 countries combined…only two of which are adversaries. No federal budget is a as bloated as the DoD’s budget.

            On top of that, there’s “the rule of the tool.” If you’re spending a mountain of money on a tool, you’re more motivated to use that tool.

            And I can name scores of federal departments and programs that are under-funded and under-staffed. Locally, the Forest Service and National Parks Service spring immediately to mind.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      Doug — It’s not enough to say that I’m wrong. You have to say HOW I’m wrong. We spend almost $4 trillion a year on healthcare. Most of the cost is born by insurance premiums. We could pay for UHC out of that money, and people could pocket the difference. On a per-capita basis compared with European countries, the cost could be halved.

      Where is the flaw in that? I’ve asked you before: Is it just that you think we’re too stupid to accomplish what others are already doing? Is that it?

      Doug, why do you hate America?

  39. Avatar Gary Tull says:

    I think one big difference between European style healthcare and our system of healthcare in the U.S. is that medical professionals in such countries as the Netherlands, Belgian and France accept less salary compensation for their expertise and time. Medical practitioners in western Europe choose their vocation primarily in the interest of healing and improving humanity. Amassing great wealth seems to be of somewhat less interest.

    Another difference — you don’t see huge and/or sprawling medical facilities that cost zillions to build, in European countries. You see moderate size hospitals and medical clinics.

    Of course you don’t hear or see much in regard to health insurance companies there either. If you are there and need medical attention, you are covered. And that includes visitors.

    They have accomplished total healthcare for all at half the cost of the same cutting-edge quality healthcare you might find in the USA.

    One more factor to mention: they eat healthier less- processed foods than we do and on average, get more exercise. Bicycles are owned by 84% of the Dutch.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      In other news, today Trump gave relief to a bunch more formerly powerful and mostly rich political and business criminals, on the argument that their punishments—in some cases at the bottom of the federal recommendation guidelines—were excessive.

      This guy is the most corrupt, evil, shameless POTUS in our history. Not even close at this point.

      • Avatar Gary Tull says:

        Yep. And usually when a defendant is found guilty of high crimes… and he or she ultimately PLEAD GUILTY in State or Federal Court, they are sentenced according to State or Federal guidelines. Final ruling, never an exception! Nobody else gets involved.

        That’s not how it works now with intervention from Barr . He is now effectively squashing all investigations and legal cases against Trump and his corrupt buddies (see Stone, Flynn and Giuliani) before they get through court. Even Southern District of NY prosecutors are feeling the intimidation.

        It’s getting beyond bad. Something must give.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          The horror, Gary. Because President Trump must be the only president that has ever commuted a sentence or pardoned someone. Does the name Marc Rich mean anything to you? Google it.

          • Avatar Gary Tull says:

            Doug — Trump is not similarly comparable to Bill Clinton by any means of measure. Your reply is offensive and a sidestep. Google ‘evade’.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Gary, your comment went on to say, “…Final ruling, never an exception! Nobody else gets involved.”

            What is offensive is the hypocrisy of the left and the never-ending Trump Derangement Syndrome. All presidents commute sentences or pardon convicted criminals. Never an exception? Really? Or just for Trump?

          • Avatar Gary Tull says:

            Stone was a repeat offender, a serial criminal to his core. He got a portion of what he deserved, but still got off relatively easy. Standard sentencing guidelines were used, and nobody of integrity says otherwise.

    • Avatar Candace says:

      Gary, a few years back I had to take my 80+ yr old mother to an emergency room in a small to midsized hospital in a small town in Germany. We waited in a very modest waiting room furnished with a few chairs, a pitcher of water and some cups. The emergency room doctor that eventually would see my mother came out once to apologize for the wait (we’d maybe waited 20 minutes) and then once again to take us himself to the room to examine my mom. He was excited about an upcoming trip to the US that he and his young wife had been saving up for for a while. He was attentive, professional, thorough, friendly and eager to practice his English on us. We were traveling and he wanted my mother to be seen again by a doctor in the next several days for follow-up. Knowing we did not speak German he kindly wrote a letter ( without our asking) in German for us to give to the next doctor explaining my mother’s condition and needed follow-up care. Along with the bandages and ointment he gave us to use, he also gave us some extra packaged bandages to give the next doctor to use on my mother. When I went to pay the bill I found out they didn’t accept any credit cards. Panicking for a moment I asked how much the charge was? It equaled fifty american dollars. In total. A few towns later, same experience. The hospital was not large or fancy but the care was excellent. We all know what fifty bucks would get you in an emergency room in the states.

      • Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

        Candace, when I left Redding and moved to tiny 12,000 pop York, Nebraska I found out how bad healthcare was in Redding. The clinics and hospitals all had signs posted “If you have not been seen in fifteen minutes, see the receptionist”. In addition specialists from Lincoln would come to York weekly. I had my pacemaker put in at Lincoln Heart Center but they would come to York to do further checks. This was true in Nebraska, Wyoming and Colorado and my insurance paid it fully.
        When the ACA, which was not supposed to affect my health plan, came out eventually I was charged a $10 co-pay, not a devastating amount.
        The problem with emergency rooms is the hospital contracts out the service and that is where the “surprise billing” comes in. UC Health took over all the hospitals in Colorado and did away with the ER contractors. Back to the $10 copay for everything.
        Here in Phoenix, it took a little trial and error, but I have found providers that are very professional.
        This new Medicare Advantage plan that CVT, California Valued Trust, has lowered premiums 20% while offering more benefits. They are into preventive care and personal traits, Silver Sneakers pays for Gym membership. The big difference, while doctors and specialists are still $10 copay the emergency room is $100 copay, they don’t want patients going to ERs when a doctor will do.
        The problem, in my opinion from experience, is Redding lacks quality healthcare at a reasonable price.

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        Germany has a health care system that I would like to see implemented in the US. They don’t have single payer. What they have is many choices and competition. Exactly the opposite of what we would get with UHC.

        One of the things I have noticed in dealing with the VA , which is how UHC will look…I am blessed that I am pretty healthy, just having a minor diabetes issue. The Redding VA clinic does a good job with keeping my condition under control. I see them a couple times a year, the staff is wonderful and caring. Lab work is done in-house, waits are a minimum. In contrast, my older brother has more serious medical issues, and his experience with the VA is starkly different from mine. His care has been inadequate, even settling with a medical malpractice suit a few years ago. Sure, our small out-patient clinic in Redding is pretty dang good for what it does. My brother uses the SF VA hospital…again, a completely different experience. Even our clinic screws up occasionally. A few years back I had a complete physical with the VA…and then a follow up visit a few weeks later. I got a big thumbs up on my health. A month or so later I had a dentist appointment (private, not VA), and the hygienist noticed a discoloration on the bridge of my nose that she recommended I get checked. I told her I just had a physical, so I doubt it is anything to worry about. It ended up being basal cell carcinoma that I had to have carved out of my face, not a pleasant experience. Should have my VA doctor caught that? I think so.

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          Yeah, Doug. As if for those of us with private insurances, it’s nothing but ups and uppers-ups. Never a problem, never a wait, never a screw-up, pick any doctor you want. LOL.

          I know two guys who have VA who have the option of using private-side insurance. After getting a taste of what the rest of us put up with, they stuck with the VA.

  40. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) saying in an interview that she’s okay with her acquittal vote because she thinks Trump learned his lesson gets my vote as the most hair-brained statement by a politician since the impeachment trial. It’s a loaded field, but that has to be the stupidest.

    • Avatar Gary Tull says:

      After her last minute jittery-airhead reversals at the Kavanaugh spectacle and Trump’s senate impeachment hearing, I would think chances are good that Collins will be gone in November.

  41. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    Even Clinton’s allies called Rich’s pardon perhaps the slimiest thing Clinton ever did. I agree.

    That’s the difference between us, Doug. I’m capable of condemnation when someone like Clinton (or Blagojevich) with a “D” next to his name does something that’s indefensibly scummy. You defend Trump doing the same thing 10x over with whataboutism, because all you care about is tribalism. The only time Republicans face fire from their own is when they break ranks.

  42. Avatar Candace says:

    Doug, as far as your comments/questions you directed my way regarding our military budget and underfunded programs, I’ll reply with “what Steve said”. Thanks for the unintentional assist Steve, I’m tired, lol.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Candace, The military spending is only 16% of the federal budget, and as I said earlier, I have no problem with cuts in the military. Do you believe it is important to have a strong military? I don’t know a lot about the US Forest Service. Their budget is a bit under $6 billion a year. Could they use more money? Well, sure…every agency wants more funding. With a $22 trillion debt, we can’t have everything we want. That is my point. We all need to make sacrifices to fix the debt that will destroy our country if we don’t fix it.

      High levels of debt will lead to high inflation, which hurts the poorest families and those on fixed incomes. It will increase the cost of groceries, gasoline, and rent, for example, not to mention make it harder to get a student loan or a loan to start a business.

      There is a debate tonight, do you think the debt will be mentioned? Nope. Did President Trump bring it up in his State of Union? Nope. Why? Because of attitudes of the voters that believe that we can’t possibly cut any budget (other than the military). Sure, it would be great if we can give the Forest Service billions of more dollars, but we can’t keep gthis out of control spending for much longer.

  43. Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

    Trump has done everything he can within the confines of our current system of government to behave like the brutal dictators he so admires – marching any official who didn’t testify his way during impeachment proceedings out of their various offices under armed guard, creating an entire shadow government to blackmail a foreign leader into manufacturing evidence against a political rival to sway the outcome of an election, demanding that U.S. troops commit mass murder of asylum-seekers at the border (he actually had to be told that mass murder is illegal), making kiddie concentration camps standard practice, funneling thousands of kidnapped children into foster/adoption agencies connected to his “Secretary of Education” Betsy DeVos, stealing millions of dollars from disabled veterans, inciting violence on numerous occasions, defending Nazis and other white supremacists on a regular basis, handing our federal government to Christian Fascists (the element who put him in office), gloatingly admitting to have sexually assaulted countless women, and so much more.

    We at least have the satisfaction of knowing that Trump lost the actual vote. Hopefully enough of the relative handful of people in the handful of states who are allowed to decide presidential elections (thanks to the antiquated electoral college, which should have been eliminated as soon as the country expanded westward) won’t repeat their traitorous act of voting for a deranged sociopath. They should be thoroughly ashamed of voting for Trump just because he promised to give white men their privileged position back at everyone else’s expense, to trample on our Constitution in favor of establishing an Old Testament-based theocracy, and to put women, gays, non-Christians, and dark-skinned people (except those who vote Republican) in their “place”. He is currently well on his way to delivering on all those promises.

    • Avatar Sue says:

      Patrecia
      Ashamed of voting for President Trump….HAHAHAHAHA!!!! NOT ONE BIT! Excited to vote him in for another wonderful 4 years! 4 more years of transforming the federal judiciary; and maybe at least one more pick for the Supreme Court! I read your comments and just shake my head; I don’t agree. I honestly share your passion for Trump though; whereas yours is hate, mine is nothing but love! God is Love and Love Always Wins!

  44. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    The most disappointed people at the Trump rally in Phoenix wee the news people. Before the rally the newscasters with cameras were everywhere roaming through the crowds lined up outside.
    What happened? Nothing. On the night news segment the TV stations had to show riots that happened two years ago because this crowd was loud from both protesters and supporters, the outside area was called the Free Speech Area, but nothing happened.
    Trump came, he saw, he conquered.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      That follows the disappointment of the media after the 2nd Amendment rally in Virginia where the media was all in tizzy expecting violence. It of course turned out to be a peaceful rally. But just last week, an anti Trumper drove his car through a GOP registration booth, thankfully the seniors manning the booth escaped without injury. Hardly got a mention in the MSM. And last week another attack on a 15 year old boy by a 34 yo man because the boy was wearing a MAGA hat. Again, barely got news coverage.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        Jesus God, Doug.

        According to a 2017 report by the GAO, of the 85 violent extremist incidents that resulted in death since 9/11, right-wing violent extremists were responsible for 62 (73%) while radical Islamist extremists were responsible for 23 (27%). The total number of fatalities is similar for far right-wing violent extremists and radical Islamist violent extremists over the approximately 15-year period (106 and 119, respectively). The majority of the deaths attributable to radical Islamist extremists occurred in a single event—the Pulse nightclub attack in Orlando, Florida in 2016 (and that mass murder might have been motivated by sexual orientation rather than Islamic extremism).

        Since the 2017 report, there have been at least four more right-wing extremist mass murders in the USA, including the El Paso Walmart targeting of Hispanics (22 dead) and the Pittsburgh synagogue attack (11 dead).

        Take your left-wing hatred bullscheisse and make yourself a huge bullscheisse sandwich. The score is so lopsided that I can’t even accuse you of a false equivalency.

  45. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    Wow…I lasted about an hour last night watching the debate, about all I could stand…rather watch the rerun of the Andy Griffith Show. That Barney Fife just kills me.
    I guess the good part is that this is probably the beginning of the end of the Bloomberg campaign. He did horrible last night. Bernie just spouted his bumper sticker slogans. Warren looked desperate. Mayor Pete couldn’t bother to shave. Even Klobuchar disappointed. Biden? Put a fork in him, he’s done. What a debacle. That Opie is the cutest kid on TV.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      So Mayor Pete went full Nixon, huh? Maybe he was just trying to look like a rugged Westerner. When in Rome…

      It’s interesting seeing the taping of a TV show—the amount of make-up caked on people to offset the bright lighting is startling. Remember how Reagan often overdid it with the rouge? He sometimes looked like he suffered from rosacea, or thought he was a 1950s Hollywood starlet.

  46. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    I typically skip debates—I haven’t watched any of the Demo debates. I don’t watch them for the same reason I don’t watch TV news (except for the comedy stuff). Dog-and-pony shows aren’t my thing.

    I’ll probably watch at least the first debate between Orange Mussolini and the Demo nominee, though. It’ll be interesting to see what an emboldened and increasingly hostile and erratic Trump will say and do. Will he go lower than calling Hillary Clinton a devil, and saying that if elected he’d put her in prison? Will he go lower than standing directly behind Clinton’s back as she answered questions, clearly trying to physically intimidate and rattle a much smaller woman with his looming bulk? How much of an obnoxious, ill-mannered pig can he be?

    I would bet money and give odds that he’ll be even more unhinged this time around.

  47. Avatar Candace says:

    I watched the entire debate. Dog and pony show or not, it’s the part of the process in the way our elections are currently run and the candidates have no choice whether or not to participate if they want to remain a viable candidate. That said, I didn’t hear anything new policy wise and watching it didn’t change my vote. I will say that some people that criticize the tone of the debate are the same people who criticize the candidates as not being strong enough to stand up to Trump on a debate stage. Can’t have it both ways. One thing the debate did do for me was to put a fine point on why I hope like hell Bloomberg isn’t the Dem nominee.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      I believe this is the last election cycle that debates will be used extensively. They have become worthless as a way to gather information about a candidate. So far there have been over 20 hours of Democrat debates. What have we learned about the candidates? Not much at all. Any talk of the debt? Foreign relations? Homeless? Nope. The GOP debates in 2016 weren’t much better. Maybe worse. Town Halls work much better

  48. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    I hear Bloomberg swallowed the olive in the face of some stiff criticism. My daughter says Warren delivered the goods more than anyone.

    • Avatar Candace says:

      Steve, I agree with your daughter. Doug’s comment about Warren appearing desperate doesn’t surprise me, coming from him, but even if one isn’t a Warren fan, that’s a completely silly thing to say. She appeared anything but desperate.

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        Warren is now auditioning for a VP spot now.Yes, she came off as being desperate. Why go after Bloomberg when Sanders is leading in every poll?

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          If it goes to a brokered convention all bets are off. The moderates are currently splitting the delegate votes 4-5 different ways—the primary reason why Bernie is out ahead of the pack. In a brokered convention the primary question will be: Who has the best chance of beating Trump?

          Going after Bloomberg before he can pick up speed skiing off of his mountain of money isn’t such a bad idea. It’s also good practice. Whoever runs against Trump is going to have to convince swing voters that billionaires almost always protect the interests of billionaires first.

        • Avatar Candace says:

          Doug, Bloomberg is gross. They all went after Bloomberg. Also, she knows Bernie backers are steadfast so it’s a waste of time to try and poach Bernie votes. That’s not desperate, that’s strategic.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            What would have been strategic is to go down the moderate lane. She had no chance to compete with Sanders for the far left Bloc of voters. There was no reason to go after Bloomberg because it is Bernie she is competing with for votes. The reason Warren won’t go after Bernie now, is she is looking for a VP nomination. If Bernie wins, he would be a one term president which sets her up for 2024. And yes, I agree, Bloomberg is gross

  49. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    I will probably watch the debate next month because it is here in Phoenix and I am sure all 3 TV stations and local media will cover it well. And I want to see how the candidates react to Arizona issues. The Wall, Immigration, Homelessness, How a booming economy is raising rents and forcing more into losing affordable housing.

  50. Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

    Doug apparently can’t tell the difference between the MANY actual murders and other serious injury-producing violent attacks by Trump supporters and just taking the Trump hate hat off of someone’s head, which is the equivelant of wearing KKK or Nazi regalia in public, and is itself a form of assault.

    Trump has incited a phenomenal amount of violence, with promises of more if he isn’t re-elected. If his supporters have done this much damage just to celebrate his victory, imagine what they’ll do when their fascist hero gets booted out of office.

    https://www.alternet.org/2019/04/right-wing-terrorists-tend-to-attack-groups-which-trump-views-as-the-enemy-of-course-he-wont-stop-them/

  51. Avatar Candace says:

    Bruce, I hope they talk about those subjects as well. None of those topics were brought up last night ( unless I missed it) other than homelessness and it was not brought up as a separate issue but was instead wrapped in the healthcare, tax cuts for the rich and climate change conversation Then again those are some major factors regarding homelessness. Being a Democrat I would have liked to have heard about foreign relations as that’s something that could definitely gain traction when put up against Trump’s abysmal white Nationalist bent. While I’m for UHC , unless and until the Senate flips to a Dem majority, I don’t see it as having any chance of passing. Improving our foreign relations is something I think would have more of a chance at garnering bi-partisan support and I’d have liked to have heard more about it from the candidates.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      How about an example of ‘white nationalist bent’. What does that even mean?

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        Doug Cook,

        I know that’s not a serious question. Trump’s entire platform was built on white nationalism, and his rhetoric has consistently demonized dark-skinned people and foreigners (at least those who aren’t lily-white and affluent, or brutal dictators). His incitments to violence and blatant white supremacist remarks have been the proven inspiration for mass shootings and a considerable amount of other violence. He has also defended white supremacist/white nationalist groups on numerous occassions. Even his slogan “America First” was coined by Nazi promoters in the 1930’s, and was later adopted by the KKK. White Nationalism isn’t just a “bent” for Trump – it’s what he has built his entire political career on.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Candace, just curious…what do you consider is wrong with our current foreign policy? What changes would you like to see? In what area?
      By the way, even if the Senate flips, there won’t be enough moderate Democrat Senators that will vote for UHC. Not a chance in the world.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        Trump, against sound advice, decided to assassinate Iran’s top
        military leader. If Iran retaliates by assassinating one of our leaders, it’ll be hard to claim the moral high ground.

        The leaders of Russia and North Korea have played Trump like a gut-hooked fish.

        We have adopted a 100% friendly attitude toward Saudi Arabia, a brutal, backward totalitarian theocracy whose embrace of Wahhabism gave us 9/11. Trump is clearly an admirer and supporter of despotism.

        We have alienated many of our closest long-time allies, abandoning longstanding commitments, because the lack of subservience by the leaders of those countries offends our thin-skinned, egotistical President.

        Trump’s attempts to sweet-talk the Taliban into a peace agreement, thinking he can just cut a deal over a weekend at Camp David, have been a laughable failure.

        He has surrounded himself with amateurish, naive boot-lickers and lick-spittles as advisers, both in the White House and abroad. He has no use for diplomatic expertise. He prefers being told by lackeys that his gut instincts are always correct.

        And then there was that time when Trump withheld crucial military aid to a strategic ally as leverage to have them dig up dirt on his political foes, for which he was impeached.

        I could go on.

  52. Avatar Candace says:

    Patrecia, funny that you said the thing about my using the word “bent”. I was thinking the same thing when I saw Doug’s question to me. I should have simply said “racist nationalist”. My bad. MAGA.

  53. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    No, don’t go on. Your case of TDS is getting worse by the day. Let’s take just one of your claims.
    “…thinking he can just cut a deal over a weekend at Camp David, have been a laughable failure.”

    The actual facts are that these negotiations have been going on for well over a year, at least since July of 2018. What do you want Steve? More Americans killed in Afghanistan? The Washington Post did a wonderful series, “Afghanistan papers”, researched documents that reveal high-ranking officials were generally of the opinion that the war was unwinnable, and didn’t know what the goals were but kept this hidden from the public. This went on through the Bush and Obama administration. So President Trump decides enough is enough and accelerates the negotiation process and you are quick to call it a failure. You want to stay in Afghanistan, Steve? You want more American soldiers killed because you don’t want the president to have a win? It looks like we are close to a deal, even Hillary came out in support of these negotiations. But Steve has his knee jerk reaction that everything Trump does is bad even making up his own facts

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      We should get out of Afghanistan and Iraq immediately. Both were mistakes from the start. There hasn’t been a solid post-war commitment to nation-building since WWII, and both then started with complete and total defeat of the enemy. Add to that the folly of trying to reform nations of religious fanatics, and it was doomed from the start.

      Trump has actually increased the number of troops in the region. My complaint is that he’s dragging it out because he thinks he can negotiate a win. It’s a fool’s task.

  54. Avatar Candace says:

    Doug, well for one I’d like to have a president who doesn’t admire and fawn over corrupt strongmen leaders of other countries. I’d also like us to rejoin The Paris Climate Agreement. I’d like us to not willy-nilly assassinate extremely revered, high-ranking bad guys while using the logic that they’ve done atrocious things to people in the past so it’s likely they’ll do it again at some point in time (because if we’re using that logic where does it end?) which in turn results in putting American and others’ lives in danger with no strategic long-term plan whatsoever after the fact. I’d like to not depend on a President’s racist, isolationist vision of global affairs. You need not look far to see his racism in action. Fast forward to his latest ridicule of a movie with subtitles winning an Academy award (the horror!) being tossed out as red meat to his base at one of his “Rallies for hate and division” as somehow being unAmerican ( cuz foreign) and thus undeserving of the win. I’d also like to see a leader in charge of Foreign Affairs who wouldn’t publicly shout out that he misses movies such as “Gone With The Wind”. As you often like to say, “good grief”. I’m all for stopping endless wars and cudos to whomever accomplishes that with a reasonable strategy, even if it’s Trump. That said, I will never vote for him or excuse his awfulness. He’s a crooked, game show host and he should have stayed a crooked game show host. One last thing, while quite common,
    constantly accusing people who don’t share your opinions as having TDS is, imo, not much of an argument at all. So, you asked, I answered. Going by the past, I’m fairly sure the reason for your questions to me was not that you were honestly curious about my answers but more along the lines of waiting to see what my answers would be in order to come at me with the intent of either ridiculing or schooling me. I’m not offended or angry, I’ve just grown tired of it.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      TDS, or Trump Derangement Syndrome has nothing to do with disagreeing with the president’s policies. It has to do with the bizarre obsession with him and making up the the 10 scandals a day about him. I even heard the TDS crowd accuse the president of being a racist because he likes Gone With the Wind. One of the greatest movies of all time.
      Trump’s foreign policy has been pretty solid in my never to be humbled opinion. I won’t go point by point of the subjects you brought up other than to say he was correct in pulling out of the Paris Climate Agreement for reasons we can talk about some other time.
      President Obama’s foreign policy was abysmal…but we weren’t obsessed with every little thing he did every single day. Was he a good Allie with Saudi Arabia? Yes he was . But when Trump had virtually the same policy, It’s a TDS explosion. Get over it. He’ll probably be president for another 4 years. Don’t obsess about every move a president makes, no matter whom it is. Nobody has shredded the Constitution, we still have checks and balances. Life goes on …our Republic goes on. The executive branch is just one of three equal branches of the government. Relax….I may just throw in a ‘good grief’ just for grins

      • Avatar Candace says:

        Doug,
        Grin away. Zzzzzzz…
        Ope, my bad, I fell asleep reading your comment. Sorry, pomposity bores me. Snore.

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        Actually Doug, they’re calling Trump’s praise of a movie filled with racist stereotypes and the glamorization of slavery (while bashing an intelligent foreign-made film about income inequality and classism) “red meat” for his base, who would obviously adore one, and aren’t bright enough to understand the other.

        And no one has to “make up” scandals involving Trump, or manufacture reasons to label him a racist. He has a very long history of overt – and provable – racism, and his rapid-fire scandals began coming to light even before the election. I can’t imagine what people like you think the 25th Amendment is for, if not for thoroughly corrupt, mentally deranged, conscience-less sociopaths like Trump.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        Doug — Nobody here has TDS, save you and Sue. We don’t have to make up his almost daily atrocities—the most recently horrible, his clemency afforded a fellow unrepentant, narcissistic, sleazy, paranoid sociopath.

        Trump is rewriting the playbook with his pardons. No longer do you have to serve the majority of your sentence. No longer do you have to express even the slightest hint of contrition. All you have to do, via your connections, is to get Trump to see you as a fellow victim.

  55. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    “Richard Grenell’s tenure as the nation’s top intelligence official may be short-lived, but he wasted no time this week starting to shape his team of advisers, ousting his office’s No. 2 official — a longtime intelligence officer — and bringing in an expert on Trump conspiracy theories to help lead the agency, according to officials.”

    An expert on Trump conspiracies theories. So in other words, Trump will now be turning the intelligence community on his enemies.

    Stick a fork in us.

    https://apple.news/AW9xYTVLZR7WSlQkNShLEWw

    • Avatar Gary Tull says:

      ‘Grenell’s key qualification is that he is a shill for the president, a shameless political advocate. For this president, shamelessness and personal loyalty are paramount.’

      Grenell is now the Acting Director of National Intelligence (at this president’s corrupt pleasure) and probably not going anywhere for awhile.

      We are in freefall.

      https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/21/opinion/richard-grenell-trump.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        One of Trump’s favorite tactics is to name the replacements of those he’s $#!+-canned as “acting,” thus avoiding the Senate confirmation process.

        That gives you a good sense of how absolutely unqualified these Bozos are…even thoroughly complicit Senate Republicans are giving his appointments side-eye.

        • Avatar Gary Tull says:

          Meanwhile”acting” replacements may as well be no other than donald dicklips himself.

          The public majority is still waiting for a few complicit Senate Republicans to break clean and fully open their eyes. The chances of that… unknown.

  56. Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

    Civilian deaths in foreign countries have skyrocketed under Trump, making America a far greater danger to innocent civilians in some places than the Taliban.

    And every time one of Trump’s disasterous military excusions resulted in the deaths of U.S. soldiers or other Americans he made bizarre, self-serving excuses. When 109 (when last I heard ) American troops suffered traumatic brain injury in the Iran bombings (thanks to Trump’s maverick actions), he described that as “some soldiers had headaches”. Medical experts described it as a “life-altering injury” and permanent disability.

    Steve is right – Trump has handed the running of our country over to the people who pander to him the most, no matter how unqualified. And he’s now destroying the national intelligence agency by loading it with people who will abuse it to push imaginary conspiracy theories on Trump’s behalf. Voting for this deranged, sociopathic, dictatorial monster should be a crime.

    https://theintercept.com/2019/10/02/trump-impeachment-civilian-casualties-war/

  57. Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

    The purge continues. Soon the entire federal government will be composed of lunatic Trump sycophants:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-embarks-on-expansive-search-for-disloyalty-as-administration-wide-purge-escalates/ar-BB10gacc?ocid=spartandhp

    • Avatar Common Sense says:

      Don’t you think that is part of the grand plan Patrecia? Loyalty or the sword. Loyalty to the Dictator or be fired or disappear? If one can’t see we have a want to be Dicktater in office and a Traitor….they are beyond help at this point.

      Your OWN intelligence guys say Russia is Helping Yet Again in 2020 and you are mad that Adam Schiff is in the room and heard it??? So you axe the guy telling the Truth? HELLO

      https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1230614574879121409

      • Avatar Sue says:

        It is exactly part of the plan; Trump has every right to fire whomever doesn’t support his agenda. It’s …Common Sense! Lol

        • Avatar Larry Winter says:

          This agenda was announced two days ago at a rally in Colorado.

          “We should impeach him! We should impeach him! Impeach Obama!”

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          Sue — You seem like a typical Trumpster—skipped 8th-grade civics, like Trump himself.

          No, Orange Mussolini can’t fire anyone he wants, even if he thinks Article 2 makes him a dictator. Not even close.

          https://www.nbcnews.com/think/amp/ncna871166

          • Avatar Sue says:

            I take the “typical Trumpster” as a badge of honor; and you’re right….I’m not schooled in civics. Have you not watched our most Supreme Leader?? I think he calls it “draining the swamp”’ so why the shock from the Left? He gets what he wants, one way or another. Somehow the constant screams and cries from the Left on how horrible Trump is….brings me sooooo much JOY! Carry On

      • Avatar Gary Tull says:

        Joseph Maguire was fired for doing his job: overseeing the dissemination of intelligence to elected officials who needed that information to do their jobs.

        Joseph Maguire was replaced (for no good reason) by an inexperienced trump-loyal toady who denies that Russians ever meddled with U.S. electiotions — in alignment with the corrupt nitwit who installed him.

        Sue — Pumping sewage into a swamp is hardly the same as draining it.

  58. Avatar Common Sense says:

    Well at least in 2016 they tried to Hide it! Now it’s just Blatant. Traitors in arms.

    https://twitter.com/i/events/1230619522245095424

  59. Barbara Rice Barbara Rice says:

    People:
    Don’t feed the troll.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      “People:
      Don’t feed the troll.”

      What exactly does that mean? Does it mean we don’t engage with those that have opposite views? That my views are somehow not as worthy as those that believe otherwise? Is Steve calling someone ‘willfully ignorant’ trolling? “…You seem like a typical Trumpster—skipped 8th-grade civics” Should that insulting comment be deleted? Again, isn’t that trolling?

      I try, and I think successful in keeping my comments on here respectful. I graduated with a Political Science degree in the late 70’s and have been discussing politics ever since. It’s only been very recently where opposing opinions are so vilified. So what if you don’t agree with my views…there were like 3 of us that were conservative and regular contributors to this comment section, y’all chased Tim away. Is that your goal? To have this forum nothing but a lefty let’s all hold hands and sing ‘Kumbaya outlet? Just seems odd to me

  60. Avatar Candace says:

    Barbara, ya, ok, you’re right, I’m done.

  61. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    Trump will win because
    1-Russian interference
    2-Wyoming’s 3 electoral votes has more power than California’s 53
    3-Old white male right wing evangelists that represent 12% of the voters will vote for him
    The Democrats are like all the NFL teams that couldn’t beat the New England Patriots and wanted to change the rules when the way to beat them was shown, not once but twice, by Eli Manning, field a better team.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      If Trump wins again it will be because tribalism is the only core value that Republican leadership still holds. Win at any cost.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      It’s simpler than that Bruce…Trump will win because Independents and moderate Democrats won’t vote for a 80 year old Socialist that wants to destroy the economy of the country. Simple as that.

      • Avatar Larry Winter says:

        Simple as that.
        The mill workers in Weaverville can’t wait to takeover the mill and run it for their benefit. We already have a public utility in both Redding and Trinity, so no gain there. Socialize water delivery, damn. Been there, done that, but now any farm that takes that water will be owned by the farmers. The Workers Party will take over the Civic Auditorium to hold Socialist rallies, I’m sure.
        Let’s see, what am I missing? Cuban doctors at Mercy Hospital? Bethel will be razed out of the US. No prayer in public and the crucifix will be illegal to sport in public.
        And the dollar will collapse and we’ll be using Bernotes for currency.

        So Doug, take your own advice that you so easily give, “Life goes on …our Republic goes on. The executive branch is just one of three equal branches of the government. Relax….I may just throw in a ‘good grief’ just for grins”

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        Not as simple as that, Doug. Until Trump got elected I was a moderate independent. I hadn’t been a Democrat in more than 30 years. I registered “D” when the GOP nominated Trump.

        Bernie is in my bottom three of the D candidates. But I’ll enthusiastically vote for him. Do I want an 80-year-old socialist as the nominee? Not especially. But I want him far more than I want an authoritarian, proto-fascist despot.

        We know that you want to be taken seriously. But when you go with Bernie “…wants to destroy the economy…” you make that impossible.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          I guess I should preface that by saying I’m sure Sanders does not want to purposely destroy the economy…but his stated policies will indeed do that.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Has Sweden’s economy been destroyed by Socialism? Finland’s? Denmark’s? Norway’s? Iceland’s? France’s? Germany’s? Ireland’s? Netherlands’?

            Most of those countries have higher standards of living, better healthcare, and commensurate median incomes compared with ours.

            Meanwhile, in our country, wealth and income disparity continue to grow. The lower classes are growing in numbers. The middle class is maintaining its numbers, but is increasingly insecure. The most secure-feeling of the middle class are those with socialist government pensions and benefits for life, like you.

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            There are several versions of Medicare for All being proposed, and several ways to fund it. Trump has given such massive tax decreases to the wealthy and corporations that this is first time in more than a hundred years the very wealthy pay a smaller percentage of their income in taxes than the middle class. Correcting this situation to require the wealthy and corporations to pay their fair share would go a long way toward funding the program. And even Sanders admits that it will take years to gradually implement it, and that it will probably go through a number of changes along the way.

  62. Avatar Candace says:

    Doug, insulting people during an on-topic heated exchange isn’t trolling. It’s flaming. If you’re a successful troll people aren’t aware you’re trolling them. Not sure why you think Barbara was referring to you when she warned “don’t feed the trolls”.

  63. Avatar Candace says:

    *troll

  64. Avatar Bruce Vojtecky says:

    Sanders is the clear choice of Democrats and the DNC is once again trying to sabotage his campaign

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      It will be interesting to see what happens at the convention. With the stupid rule changes, chances are Sanders won’t go into the convention with a majority of delegates. Do they allow him to be the nominee with a simple plurality? Or do they go through the voting process? Either way, there will be a lot of upset Democrats.

    • Avatar Larry Winter says:

      I think it’s still to early to talk clear choices yet, but the tea leaves are pointing in that direction. What Nevada has done is what Iowa and New Hampshire didn’t do. It has shown that with a more diverse populace, Sanders actually kicked butt. Close to a 30 point win over second place is an a** whoopin’. The Scaredycrat TV pundits are having to acknowledge that there’s some legitimacy behind Bernie’s campaign. As Bernie critic Joy Reid from MSDNC says, Bernie has shown “proof of concept”.

      I’ll hold off on saying Bernie being a clear choice for the Dems until after Super Tuesday.

  65. Avatar Candace says:

    Bruce, yes he is and yes they are, right along with some corporate liberal media pundits who are actually Republican strategists in disguise.

  66. Avatar Candace says:

    Bruce, *kidding about the “Republican strategists”. Sort of.

  67. Avatar candace says:

    As far as I can tell Bernie hasn’t help pass anything during his years in the senate that would warrant the hair on fire “red scare” rhetoric that we’re hearing from both the liberal and conservative corp. media (sit down Chris Matthews). He has years of experience and is well aware of what he will and won’t be able to get done in the senate such as it is. Maybe it’s the same as those who cry “TDS” only this time it’s “SDS”. I voted for Sanders in the primary. I’ll vote for him again if he’s the nominee. So what if he looks “crabby” a lot? He also has a great smile. If one is going by that metric I’d personally much rather have a decent human being who looks crabby but genuinely cares about people than what we have now. That said, I’ll vote for whomever the Dem nominee is and hope they topple Trump. I’m just hoping it’s not Bloomberg.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      The reality is that Sanders hasn’t passed anything in his years of experience in the Senate. What makes you think he will start now? Nice smile? Is that how we choose presidents now?

      • Avatar Candace says:

        Doug, I said Sanders hasn’t done anything in his years in the Senate to warrant being the harbinger of socialist doom and despair. I didn’t say we should elect a president by his smile; my comment was alluding to the “crabby old man” criticism I hear quite frequently used as a reason (among others) for not wanting to vote for him. . Talk about putting words in someone’s mouth – something you frequently accuse others (myself included) of doing to you.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          He even admitted that he is a ‘crabby old man’ after that article came out saying nobody likes him in the Senate. Which doesn’t make a difference to me. I was just pulling your chain a bit about voting for someone because of a smile. I know you are smarter than that.
          But again, I spent a little time…not that much, looking at his history of legislation that he has authored. There’s not much there. The other matter that I don’t understand is. The Democrats get pretty riled up about believing Trump is in the pocket of Russia. There are plenty of statements from Sanders in the past of praising Russia, Venezuela, Cuba and other totalitarian regimes. Heck…he honeymooned in the Soviet Union. Are you going to be ok with him being buddy buddy with Russia?

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Sander’s trip honeymoon in the Soviet Union was in 1988, when Mikhail Gorbachev was about 7 years into a decade-long move to dismantle the USSR. It was an official trip—Sanders was there to establish Yaroslavi as a sister city to Burlington, of which he was then mayor. The trip was organized by David Kelley, a Republican who accompanied him.

            Sanders has been criticized for saying at that time that the United States meddles too much in the affairs of foreign countries. That’s been a key facet of Trump’s “America first” platform ever since he started running for POTUS.

            Sanders has also said the trip reinforced his view that one-party socialism is always doomed to failure, and that democratic socialism of the type in Northern Europe is the answer.

            Ronald Reagan ran in 1980 on a platform opposed to détente, which he called a one-way street. That left Gorbachev (a product of détente) to do 95% of the heavy lifting, starting with purging hard-liners from the Politburo over the course of more than half a decade until he could take bolder measures. When the time came, Reagan and Republicans weren’t shy about giving Reagan all the credit that belonged almost solely to the guy who engineered what led to the breakup of the USSR from within.

            For his role in ending the cold war, Gorbachev won the Nobel Peace Prize. Reagan did not. At least RR had the good graces to offer congratulations, rather than react by saying that *he* deserved all the prizes, as Orange Mussolini has constantly done.

            Unfortunately, Gorbachev was subsequently muscled out Boris Yeltsin, a populist not unlike our current POTUS. Said Gorbachev of Yeltsin: “He drinks like a fish, he’s inarticulate, he comes up with the devil knows what, he’s like a worn-out record.” Yeltsin’s failure to continue Gorbachev’s careful work—including his role in the rise of the oligarchs—started the slide toward Russia’s current authoritarianism hopelessness, and despair (highest suicide rate in the world).

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        What did Trump pass prior to becoming POTUS?

        The real reality is that no POTUS in the foreseeable future is going to get anything substantial passed without majorities in both houses of Congress.

    • Avatar Sue says:

      Could Bernie get cornswaggled??? Will Hillary save the day? Politics…so full of twists & turns; better than any movie!
      https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2020/02/23/dick-morris-hillary-clinton-will-get-the-nomination-in-a-brokered-convention/

  68. Avatar Linda Cooper says:

    I get it that it’s in the best interest of an on-line newspaper to have tension and opposing “fire in the mix.” It’s a balance, and yet I’ve been reading and not commenting until now. And Sue (who will not publish her full name), heads up, this is not a movie. It’s real time. So, you support those who turn to those awful Go Fund me sites, to help pay for their medical care? Are you rich? I wonder? Or do you not want to support those who have less than what you have? Are you one of those women at the farmer’s market in Redding who had tattoos with a bunch of children following. Or, are you my sister today who mentioned that she loved Clint Eastwood? Hey, true story, I worked for the Eastwoods for some years. Off to finish my glass of wine. Yep.

    • Avatar Sue Crowe says:

      Linda
      I have gladly donated to GoFundMe’s & Caring Bridge, and will again….if I so desire. No. We’ve recently taken in a Victor Group Home teen; you could consider that supporting someone with less. Yes; the Farmers Market by DQ, no tatts and kids are all grown. Am I fitting in your mold? I went to school here and LOVE Redding. Christian God is King!
      Most everyone here says the same thing; just in different ways. I enjoy reading the comments; even if I don’t agree. I guess I thought someone here my enjoy my views. My hope is that you read an article I post and maybe agree….now wouldn’t that be nice?

      • Avatar Linda Cooper says:

        Oh, okay. “Christian God is King.” I now understand. No argument there. Aside from wondering if this God is a she or he.

        And my point is about Go Fund Me. Is that people like you Get to pick and choose regarding health care.

        My last point is the it really doesn’t matter.
        Because doctors are over worked, under paid and dentists get paid better. Good luck finding a doctor out there.

  69. Avatar Sue says:

    1-ok it’s my faith; I don’t push onto anyone
    2-people like me?
    3-I absolutely AGREE!

  70. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    In the latest Trumpanistan Authoritarian Hegemony news, Trump buddy Roger Stone’s defense team filed for his trial judge to recuse herself because she allegedly had exhibited bias against Stone. They based that on three words that she issued during her sentencing: She commended the jury for “serving with integrity.”

    In Trump’s Bizarro World, “serving with integrity” is now a partisan issue, and those who commend others for doing so are on the wrong side.

    We are so far down the rabbit hole, I don’t know if there’s any hope of coming back up.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Tell the whole story, Steve. The defense team told the judge they are filing for a mistrial because of the jury foreman who was found to have anti Trump biases. After reading the comments of this juror, there is no doubt she lied during her questioning, it is a very good chance a mistrial will be given. So saying the jurors served with integrity may not be completely true. It is also interesting how you all were up in arms about Barr changing the sentencing guidelines. But this judge used the lower end of the new guidelines.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        It’s telling that Stone’s attorneys offered zero evidence in support of their claim that the jury foreman “was found to have” (your words) anti-Trump biases.

        Said the presiding judge: “At bottom, given the absence of any factual or legal support for the motion for disqualification, the pleading appears to be nothing more than an attempt to use the Court’s docket to disseminate a statement for public consumption that has the words ‘judge’ and ‘biased’ in it.”

        Said a fellow juror: “The irony here is that Tomeka Hart, who we elected as our foreperson on a secret ballot, was perhaps the strongest advocate in the room for a rigorous process, for the rights of the defendant, and for making sure that we took it seriously and looked at each charge.”

        This is just the kind of Big Brother anti-reality misinformation that conservatives now embrace whole-heartedly—you included. Any means to an end. Are the lives of common people tarnished in service of supporting the powerful elite? Who cares?

        Does defending scumbags at the expense of decent people on a daily basis ever start to wear on you, Doug? Does it ever feel like you’re sullying your soul?

  71. Avatar Sue says:

    Here’s a good read….
    https://www.theepochtimes.com/why-the-left-calls-good-people-racist_3249929.html
    I hope everyone on ANC has a great day; it’s National Pancake Day! YUM

    • Avatar Kathryn McDonald says:

      Sue, I would respect you more if you didn’t provide links to Breitbart, a right-wing conspiracy site, and The Epoch Times, a “news” site run by a Chinese religion.

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        Kathryn, Sue linked an article written by Dennis Prager. One of the most listened to radio hosts and speakers in the country, calling out the left for personal smears. Something that happens frequently to conservative speakers on college. Not sure why linking this op-ed makes you to not respect Sue.

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          About the Prager article.

          First of all, Prager paints all left-wingers as liars who wouldn’t have a leg to stand on if it weren’t for lies, including untrue smears. That in itself—like most starkly black-and-white pronouncements—is the real lie. Prager finds it difficult not to lie because his world-views are pronouncly black-and-white, and therefore fail to recognize any variance. Thus, “They’re all the same.” Alas, the world is not one of false dichotomies.

          As another example, Prager believes that irreligious liberals are incapable of morality. (See “everything is black/white” up above.) Why are they inherently immoral? Because they don’t believe in the absoluteness of revealed truth. They don’t believe in the absoluteness of good vs. evil. Of right and wrong.

          Our current POTUS has openly bragged about sexually assaulting women, separates toddlers from their mothers at the border for extended periods of time, repeated acts of adultery, has been convicted of committing crimes and liable for damages for committing scams, and is demonstrably is the biggest liar ever to inhabit the White House. And yet, he has religious followers who claim that he, and they, hold the moral high ground. Prager sees Trump as virtuous, and Trump is widely supported by conservative evangelicals. One of our own state representatives— in a town hall meeting to which (reportedly illegally) only Christian evangelicals were invited—stated that Trump was anointed by God.

          “God is on the move You don’t think he’s on the move? Donald Trump’s in office.” — Sen. Brian Dahle

  72. Avatar Candace says:

    Nothin’ I like better than bumpin’ elbows with “good racists” while quoting Dennis Prager on National Pancake Day. I’m sure there’ll be “good people” on both sides of the table. Well, apparently, according to Prager, not on the left side; my bad. Enjoy your day!

  73. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    Perhaps you should read the op-ed by Dennis Prager. I take it you are referring to Sue when you imply you are bumpln’ elbows with racists. I believe that is the entire point of his opinion piece. “…If you differ with the left, you are, by definition, sexist, racist, bigoted, intolerant, homophobic” is what Mr Prager wrote. Thanks for proving his point. What in the op-ed is racist? He talks about A Purdue official that wrote Dennis Prager said in a speech that ‘ Slavery was not that bad’. Something he never said.
    He goes on to say, “…truth is a liberal value and a conservative value, but it is not a left-wing value. I believe, as he does that there is a difference between liberals and left wingers…but you say in your comment, “…Well, apparently, according to Prager, not on the left side. He didn’t say that at all.
    Can you explain to me why you believe that Sue is a ‘good racist’. I have also been called a racist on these pages a number of times simply for having conservative views. Isn’t that the point of Mr Prager’s article? Or did you even bother to read it? Or just have the knee jerk reaction to attack conservatives unwarranted?

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      Doug — I think you missed two points entirely.

      First, Candice’s statement about “bumpin’ elbows” with “good racists” is not a blanket damning of all conservatives. It’s just that, increasingly, conservatives tolerate their company, mainly because it’s politically expedient. It’s not our fault that you’ve invited all but the most heinous of America’s racist, sexist, authoritarian, know-nothing mouth-breathers under your tent.

      Secondly, you seem unable or unwilling to admit that Prager—unlike Candice—damns all on left-wingers as liars and bullies whose only effective tactic is to smear their opponents. The very all-inclusiveness of that argument renders it absurd and invalid.

      In your defense of Prager, you quote: “…If you differ with the left, you are, by definition, sexist, racist, bigoted, intolerant, homophobic…” That’s your defense? You double-down on a statement that uniformly accuses left-wingers of holding those opinions of right wingers, BY DEFINITION?

      Doug, by repeating Prager’s nonsense, you make yourself guilty of what you and Prager accuse the left wing of doing. That blanket damnation includes people like me and Bill Maher. Regardless of how many times we’ve spoken out against rabid campus political correctness, you lump us with intolerant bigots—we’re all the same.

      Note well that I’m accusing *you* of being the intolerant, all-inclusive conservative bigot, by your own words. Not all conservatives. Not Sue. Not Bruce. Just *you.*

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        No, I didn’t miss any point. Candace’s comment about bumping elbows with good racists, I agree was not a blanket damning of conservatives. What is was was insulting a particular person on these pages.
        Prager goes out of his way to NOT damn all those on the left, he differentiates, as I did those on the left that are liberals and those that are leftists. As I said, it is the same difference as calling someone a conservative or right winger. Read my comment further down where I describe the difference between a leftist and liberal.

        • Avatar Candace says:

          Doug, so then your logic is that it’s not ok to blanket “liberals” or “the left” as all being liars but it’s ok to blanket “left wingers” as such? No matter if it’s Prager or anyone else doing the blanketing? And please don’t say it was only the one article you were speaking of because quite obviously Prager was not saying “ just one left-winger is a liar”. Despite your saying you were only using that example to scold me the fact remains that you used his assumption to defend your original point. Following that logic, “conservatives” and the “right” are truth tellers but all those deemed as “far-right” are liars, which would then of course make Prager a liar. A liar who you quoted.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            I never blanketed anyone, I don’t that. I also never said that it is ok to blanket all left wingers as liars. As Prager said , “…truth is a liberal value and a conservative value, but it is not a left-wing value.” That does not mean that all Leftists are liars. You logic is misplaced. An example of a Leftist liar? Jussie Smollet

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          In these polarized times in the U.S., the distinction between left-wingers and liberals (and right-wingers and conservatives) is so obscure as to be useless, if they ever were of any use. Liberalism vs. leftism still has meaning in Great Britain, but not here.

          Very few politicians today wants to be called centrists.

          Among Democrats, it’s still somewhat polite to refer to Biden, Buttigieg, and Klobuchar moderates (as opposed to the liberals Sanders and Warren). To most Republicans, they’re all liberals and/or socialists.

          Among Republicans, it’s impolite to refer to any Republican as a moderate. You’re either with us or agin’ us. Most of the thoughtful moderate commentators like George Will and David Brooks have been marginalized. Their moderate politician kin, like Romney, are routinely slurred as “RINOs.”

          The derivation of the left and right wings, from the French Revolution era, was that the liberals (anti-royalists) sat on the left side of the French National Assembly, and the conservatives (royalists) sat on the right. The few who tried to remain independent were quickly reined in. So it is in today’s America.

  74. Avatar Larry Winter says:

    Here’s what Mr. Gates of Purdue also said…
    “It was the most civil engagement I had ever seen. That’s Purdue. We do this. Was I uncomfortable? I was uncomfortable and mad as hell. But I sat there and I listened to him respectfully. And I engaged with the audience afterwards. And it was a beautiful evening.”

    https://www.purdueexponent.org/campus/article_1843a52d-7dc2-5a0b-9e09-bf2e1b229b86.html?fbclid=IwAR143wzlUs3BpnNlMYfbLv_JZqGVr7iHuTCoCHPmwuxvaiGqQ68Vep68IlU

    Here’s some earlier quotes of Dennis Prager,
    “the acceptance of homosexuality as the equal of heterosexual marital love signifies the decline of Western civilization.”
    Prager wrote “Insofar as a member of Congress taking an oath to serve America and uphold its values is concerned, America is interested in only one book, the Bible. If you are incapable of taking an oath on that book, don’t serve in Congress.”

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      I’m not here to defend Prager and his views, I am specifically talking about someone, Mr Gates, that misrepresented what Prager said, accusing Prager of saying, “…“slavery was not bad.”
      Prager said in his op-ed, that you seemed to have missed, “…First, truth is not a left-wing value. As I have said and written ever since studying communism and the left in graduate school at the Columbia University Russian Institute, truth is a liberal value and a conservative value, but it is not a left-wing value.” He does not lump in all of those that lean left. He differentiates those that are classic Liberals, like you…and the Leftists.

      • Avatar Larry Winter says:

        Doug, You’re right that it would be wrong for Gates to misrepresented what Prager was saying. It would be nice to see the full video. Interpretations can differ. But the fact that Purdue is having a series of speakers that bring controversial topics to the campus for respectful conversations is a plus.
        And I’m still confused with the definitions of “liberal” and “left wing” as if they completely describe all the parts of the portrait. Can you replace left wing with progressive? To pigeon hole people into “lanes” and then define which lane values truth over others is just word games that really don’t amount to much, unless you make a living putting perspectives into nice and neat “value lanes”.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          Larry, I think progressives are different than leftists…liberals of the past are now calling themselves progressive. For some reason they think being called liberal is a smear. I tried to describe a leftist in an earlier post,

          “…A Leftist is someone on the farther extreme, who is much more anti-capitalist and believes in a more socialistic system, or even communism. I don’t know very many true Leftists, but they seem to be fairly vocal and get involved in marches and protests, so their presence in the media is perhaps greater than their numbers.”

          My friend, Patrecia likes to call me a radical right winger…which is amusing in itself. That is probably the right wing equivalent of leftist. Sorry about the pigeon holing…it is from my political science education background where we spent an inordinate amount of time defining political ideologies.

  75. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    So it was okay—and not open to prosecution or civil litigation—for LE to murder an unarmed kid so long as “there were foreign policy and national security issues at stake,” according to Justice Alioto, writing for the conservative majority. It doesn’t matter if it was justified. https://n.pr/392PQa7

    My over/under on how long it will take the SCOTUS to apply this logic to U.S. citizens on U.S. soil: two years.

  76. Avatar Larry Winter says:

    Question of the day…

    How can we afford and pay for saving $450,000,000,000 per year?

    • Avatar Candace says:

      Larry, ya, that makes me crazy. “How’re we going to pay for it?!?” Bernie, “like this (points to recent study). “See, I knew it, you don’t know! “Do you support ruthless Dictators?” Bernie, “unequivocally no!” “See, you support dictators!” Granted, whether one agrees with him or not, his remarks about Castro are really, really, really bad to win Miami and of course all the other candidates are smart enough to know to zero in on that to score cheap points. Still… “Candace, do you like cats or dogs?” “Dogs.” “I knew it! You like cats!” “See everybody, Candace likes cats! It’s raining cats!”

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      LOL. Whenever Doug touches on this issue, he insists on looking only at increased federal spending for M4A. He refuses to acknowledge that insurance premiums would just shift to payroll taxes, and we’d all pay less than we and our employers pay for insurance premiums. In fact, he refuses to acknowledge the shift at all—he just insists over and over that it’s new spending that increases the federal debt.

      Here’s the abstract from the article the flagship British medical journal “The Lancet” that provided the $450B annual savings estimate.

      “Although health care expenditure per capita is higher in the USA than in any other country, more than 37 million Americans do not have health insurance, and 41 million more have inadequate access to care. Efforts are ongoing to repeal the Affordable Care Act which would exacerbate health-care inequities. By contrast, a universal system, such as that proposed in the Medicare for All Act, has the potential to transform the availability and efficiency of American health-care services. Taking into account both the costs of coverage expansion and the savings that would be achieved through the Medicare for All Act, we calculate that a single-payer, universal health-care system is likely to lead to no less than a 13% savings in national health-care expenditure, equivalent to more than US$450 billion annually (based on the value of the US$ in 2017). The entire system could be funded with less financial outlay than is incurred by employers and households paying for health-care premiums combined with existing government allocations. This shift to single-payer health care would provide the greatest relief to lower-income households. Furthermore, we estimate that ensuring health-care access for all Americans would save more than 68,000 lives and 1·73 million life-years every year compared with the status quo.”

      The are some real question regarding the transition to M4A: (1) What do we do about all of the people currently employed in the private insurance industry, and private shareholders? (2) How do we convince doctors* who would shortly become salaried? (3) How do we pay for so many people living longer, healthier lives?

      *I’ve had this discussion with both a primary physician and a specialist. Both would be more than glad to rid themselves of billing and arguing with insurance companies, so long as their compensation didn’t plummet.

  77. Avatar Candace says:

    Doug, No, I read it. I wouldn’t have commented if I hadn’t. Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity are also very popular radio hosts; I don’t listen to either of them. I used to listen to Hannity (as much as I could stand) during my lunch hours at the RS for two reasons. 1) I like talk radio and that’s the only thing that was on, and 2) I was curious. Mr. Prager’s blanket conclusion after his experience being that truth is not a left-wing value is exactly the reason I don’t listen to him or the others. Do you think I didn’t expect you to jump on and say “thanks, you proved his point”? Of course I did. I was not referring to Sue personally, I was using sarcasm to illustrate that like Trump, perhaps conspiracy theory outlets and flamers such as Breitbart, Hannity and Limbaugh aren’t the best examples of anti-racism or truth-telling. Those who defended (or excused) Trump’s “good people on both sides” (and still do) are not among those who I would consider “fair and balanced” nor are they people I’d admire or look to for words of wisdom.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      I don’t listen to Hannity or Rush either. It really doesn’t matter where this op-ed came from. It was written by Dennis Prager, who cares that Epoch Times reprinted it. I submit that there is a difference between liberalism and leftism. Since we are talking bout race…here is the difference between the two. The liberal position on race was that the color of one’s skin is insignificant. To liberals of my generation, only racists believed that race is significant. However, to the Left, the notion that race is insignificant is itself racist. Liberals were committed to racial integration. Liberals should be sickened by the existence of black dormitories on university campuses. Leftists are in favor of that.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_aW4EjMwRM
      Liberals support free speech…Leftists, like Antifa want to end free speech they don’t like. Leftists are less tolerant than “liberals .
      A Leftist is someone on the farther extreme, who is much more anti-capitalist and believes in a more socialistic system, or even communism. I don’t know very many true Leftists, but they seem to be fairly vocal and get involved in marches and protests, so their presence in the media is perhaps greater than their numbers.

      You posted, “,,,Nothin’ I like better than bumpin’ elbows with “good racists” while quoting Dennis Prager on National Pancake Day.”

      Since Sue was the only one that quoted Prager, or the very least linked the article in question. How can anyone come away with anything other than she was who you called a ‘good racist’? Just because you don’t mention her by name, doesn’t lessen the impact.

      • Avatar Sue....I’m not a racist. says:

        I posted that article because I’ve been called HORRIBLE things by the commenters here on ANC; solely by having a different opinion. I’ve been criticized by my use of bad grammar and non-proper English; so I must be ignorant and stupid. Bottom line for spelling and grammar…I’m lazy; I also don’t possess the saint-like patience of Doug. The nastiness I’ve experienced here doesn’t deter me; and hopefully (if time allows) I will be sharing more of my insights!

  78. Avatar Candace says:

    Doug, speaking of proving a point…
    You quoted Prager as saying “…truth is a liberal value and a conservative value, but it is not a left-wing value. I believe, as he does that there is a difference between liberals and left wingers…”
    And you finished with your comment to me “but you say in your comment, “…Well, apparently, according to Prager, not on the left side. He didn’t say that at all.” Look at what you quoted, he literally said that exact thing. I said “…on the left side”, he said “left-wingers”. I suppose if you want to support that by differentiating between “liberal” and “left-wing” ok, but the line between those two things has become very blurred if not non-existent. What you consider radical is nowhere near what I consider radical and I’m not a “crazy left-wing extremest” as many on the right like to call me and others who think as I do. You know as well as I that “left-wingers” is used pejoratively by many on the right when describing those on the left. The fact that Prager decided to preface his comment with the nuancing of “liberal and left-wing ” doesn’t erase the fact that he’s blanketing people on the left as liars. As far as your knee-jerk comment, my knee is attached to my leg which is attached to my foot which is firmly planted on the ground.

  79. Avatar Candace says:

    Doug, your “differences” regarding liberals and leftists and their subsequent differences of the definition of racism is rigid, old-fashioned and absurd. Of course the significance of the color of one’s skin in the context of (cough, everything) racial discrimination matters. In the past, well intentioned people of our generation also said stupid things like “I don’t see color”. The generations that have come after us are smarter than we were in regard to racism. They’re not afraid to admit transgressions and work towards not repeating them. Thank goodness for that. As far as Sue goes, the “good racist” comment was again, speaking about keeping company with the likes of Breitbart (of course it matters where things originate from) and Dennis Prager. Since Sue (sorry for using your name repeatedly in a conversation you’re not personally involved in) is the one that posted the link it stands to reason that my comment followed hers. I’ll admit that at first I thought she was indeed a troll due to the tone-deaf and flaming “HAHAHA!” “WINNING!” , etc. replies to others she posted. After a few of her posts I’ve since changed my mind. I think politically she’s a God-in-government, Trump supporter which are two things I don’t personally support.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Candace, I went to high school in the early 70’s. I attended a high school that was evenly racially mixed. The prevailing theme back then was ‘unity’, not diversity. How similar the races are. How much we are similar rather than point out our differences. I firmly believe that was much better. We had very good race relations back then, at least in that small environment. We didn’t focus on what color someone was, we focused on the person. That is why it is distressing to me that universities now have black dorms. Heck. Harvard even had a a separate graduation ceremony for blacks. These are something that white southern racists would have supported in the 50’s. So I disagree that the current generation is smarter than us vis-à-vis race relations. All you have to do is look at the video I posted from the University of Virginia. That would have never happened in my high school in 1973…

      “I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.”- Martin Luther King Jr.

      • Avatar Candace says:

        Doug, look at your MLK Jr. quote. Then look at what you wrote before that. Your assertion that “We had very good race relations back then’” using the context of your high school setting is such a narrow-minded “white” narrative of the reality and history of racism that I think it may be impossible for you to understand the thing you quoted. In that sense, I stand by my original assertion that regarding racism the younger generations are for the most part much wiser than our generation was or is. It’s the thinking like yours that supports “MAGA” ideology. “Back in the day, America was great for people of color!” Said no person of color ever.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          Of course you once again put words in my mouth, I was obviously talking about race relations between blacks and whites…being that I was one of those two races that were part of race relations , and I did not grow up in lily white Redding, I do in fact have a perspective I can speak of. . let me reiterate what I said…I never mentioned racism. There was and will always be racism, unfortunately. What I was talking about was race relations between black and whites when I grew up in the 70’s and how we interacted with each other. It was unity, the belief that we are more alike than different that drove the positive race relations that I grew up with in a racially mixed neighborhood… not celebrating diversity, or how different we are from each other. Which I believe is dangerous. So tell me how having a separate graduation for races is wiser? Matter of fact, I just looked and 44 different colleges had separate graduations. So no…the younger generation are not wiser. I noticed you had no comment on that piece of work young lady that tried to kick white students out the MCC on campus. Is she wiser? Or would you call her a racist?

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Doug, you’re roughly my age. For you to tell people—especially younger readers—that race relations between blacks and whites were better when we were in school is either purposefully deceitful, or painfully delusional. The Civil Rights era from the late ’40s through the early ’70s were rife with racial violence, and attempts by the Deep South to preserve Jim Crow laws. That switched to a different form of racial oppression—mass incarceration—in the late ’70s.

            You may be offended by rare, separate college graduation ceremonies for minorities in this day and age, and I agree that they are potentially counter-productive (but I’m not an American minority, so it’s not my call). But to say those graduation ceremonies are hard evidence of race relations being worse relative to your “we’re all one” youth? Get real.

            I have heard two different native Reddingite men speak fondly of the 60s and 70s here in Redding, when the n*****s knew their place. Both were local business owners. The good news? One of them was told immediately to his face that he was a f***ing rectal orifice—not by me, but by another white acquaintence in the room. The other endured a boycott that definitely got his attention. (I have no idea who started it… :::cough, cough:::)

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            Steve, I will go back to my original premise which I strongly believe in. That focusing on unity rather than diversity is the best strategy to bring the races together. It worked in my high school and college days, and it worked in the military. I wouldn’t describe my feelings about segregated dorms and graduation ceremonies as me being offended. I would characterize it as being profoundly disappointed that we have gone in the wrong direction with race relations where segregation is even considered. If you haven’t seen this, watch this video and try to defend it.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_aW4EjMwRM
            If something like that happened in the Air Force…that person would be severely disciplined. I realize that college campuses are their own strange world…but how can anyone defend this type of thinking?
            Unity…not diversity is the way to go.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          Candace, you believe my high school experience is narrow minded in looking at race relations. Let’s look at my military experience. Over 20 years in an organization that doesn’t care about the color of your skin. We all wore the same uniform, We were all treated the same. We were all paid the same. We did not celebrate diversity, we did not have segregated dorms. We were a unit, we were the same no matter what color we were. In that environment, where people were treated the same, and color was ignored…yes, blacks excelled.

    • Avatar Sue says:

      I looked up troll on urban dictionary; certainly not my style. Now I think people on here have written things about me personally (troll uneducated racist)to get me riled; wouldn’t that be trolling? To use capital letters to show my enthusiasm for Trump; is like me shouting from the rooftops! I’m giving a different political perspective; is that a bad thing? Maaaaaaybe there are other Trump-Loving readers here that are just too afraid to comment….can you blame them? And HECK YEA! I’m a God in govt Trump supporter! Btw we my not agree politically but that just one part of who we are; I KNOW we have common ground, just gotta look harder!

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        Sue — As far as I’m concerned, your voice is more than welcomed here. Expect a few darts from people like me if you’re posting pro-Trump stuff, but that comes with the territory—feel free to throw them back.

        As far as I recall, the only time I’ve insulted you was when I called you a “typical Trumpster” for claiming that Trump can fire whomever he wants. I think I said that you might have skipped civics in Junior High.

        But I did qualify that by saying that you’re no more untaught than Trump, who has said that Article 2 of the U.S. Constitution gives him the power to do pretty much whatever he wants to do, including firing anyone in the Administrative branch who doesn’t support him. So, here’s my apology: You’re no less informed than the Leader of the Free World, and whatever knowledge you might lack is infinitely less dangerous than Trump’s unending demonstrations of his pig-ignorance.

  80. Avatar Candace says:

    Steve, on a lighter note this is for you. During the last debate Bloomberg suddenly segued to addressing the other candidates and telling this joke: (it went something like this) “I don’t know how you all were brave enough to show up to tonight’s debate after I beat you all so badly in the last one.” No one laughed. I was texting my son and I said , “good gawd, I realize he has a very dry sense of humor but that was just odd.” My son’s reply was “That’s how lizard people tell jokes”. lol

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Did you actually watch the debate? I lasted about 30 minutes until they started talking and yelling over each other. Good gawd, what a train wreck. But it looks like the rest took my advice from what I read and heard, that they left Bloomberg alone and went after Sander, that was the correct strategy. Except Warren, She is for sure auditioning for Sanders VP.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        Doug — It’s a little early for histrionics about the debates being a train wreck. According to the most of the pundits, Trump lost every debate he polluted, resoundingly. He came off as belligerent, pompous, uninformed, bullying, and wholly unprepared to lead. He was so bad he kick-started an “Anyone but Trump” movement in the party. Alas, the GOP’s mouth-breathers loved every spittle-flecked minute of it.

        Soon enough, the field will be down to 2-3 Democrats, and we’ll forget all about these crazy “LOOK AT ME!!!” three-ring-circus/cake-walk debates. Maybe then I’ll start watching.

        It’s a mystery to me how Uncle Joe is going to make the final three in a field that has two far better moderate candidates (I’m excluding the billionaire). Obama fairy dust? That’s gotta be it….right?

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      Candice — I think I’d like your son. Yeah, maybe Bloomberg doesn’t look all that comfortable in his skin is because it isn’t his normal skin.

  81. Avatar Candace says:

    Doug, yes, I watched the entire debate. I admit that I turned the sound down during some of the screamfest towards the beginning. Of course they all went after Sanders, that was a given.

  82. Avatar Candace says:

    Doug, your circular “I don’t blanket people argument” is incredulous. Your moving of the goalposts to Smolett was foreseeable and not surprising in the least. I believe that I’ll stop sparring with you after this for good. I find your arguments to be so disingenuous that it’s not worth my while to engage. Then again, you did self-describe as “never to be humbled”. At least in that sense you’re self-aware, I’ll give you that much. So come at me! Goad away! You’ll get no argument from me! For those folks doing a handstand now- yep, I know I’ve said it before but I’m really, truly done.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      I wasn’t moving any goalpost…I gave a specific example of a leftist that lied. Or do you believe Smollet was telling the truth? Just because you don’t agree with my beliefs, doesn’t mean I am not being sincere. Maybe I don’t express my ideas as clear as I think I do, because you certainly have difficulty comprehending what I say.

      “…“We had very good race relations back then’”… is such a narrow-minded “white” narrative of the reality and history of racism that I think it may be impossible for you to understand the thing you quoted.”

      My comment had zero to do with the history of racism. My comment had to do what we did as a community to improve race relations, which to me is different than racism. It is far from being a ‘narrow white narrative…and since you were not part of my community, how do you know how we interacted with each other?

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        Doug — The real question is why you think an example of an obscure supporting actor in an obscure TV show telling a big lie has any consequence at all. In the face of your guy Trump setting records for presidential lying that will never be broken, for you to drop all the way down to Jessie “Say who?” Smollett as proof that leftists lie too……well…..thanks for the assist, buddy.

  83. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    Doug — Trump acted like a jackass in every debate he polluted—nearly all the pundits said he lost every single debate owing to his aggro, rambling, smarmy, uninformed performances—but the GOP’s mouth-breathers loved it. Not so easy these days to pick winners.

    It’s a little early for histrionics about these train-wreck debates. Shortly, it’ll be down to 2-3 candidates, and we’ll all forget about these “LOOK AT ME!” three-ring circus/cake-walk fiascos. Maybe then I’ll start watching.

    It’s an absolute mystery to me how Uncle Joe is gonna make the final three, but I think he will. Obama fairy dust? Gotta be….right?

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      I stopped watching the GOP debates too. I have said before that this is the end of debates in presidential elections. They have been worthless for years. It is the worst possible forum. Biden is done….Warren is done. She is auditioning for the VP slot now. I don’t see how you are going to stop Sanders. I think it is telling that Obama has not come out to support Biden.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      By the way…. Obama’s fairy dust is all used up. The Obama from 2008 would never get the nomination in 2020. That is how far left the party has moved. His immigration policy back then would have labeled him a racist in today’s environment. I read something interesting yesterday. In 2008 the black voter turnout for Obama increased by only 4% from 2004. Sanders thinks the young vote will be the difference. This particular pundit predicts that the increase in young voter turnout has to be 15% to help Sanders. That ain’t gonna happen.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        Doug — I think you hugely underestimate Obama’s ability to shape-shift. Out of nowhere, he positioned himself in 2008 to eventually got him the nomination—figuring out how to not alienate moderates. Once elected, he passed the largest socialist program in five decades. He then ran on that record and easily won again. (Unfortunately, after two years the GOP-majority HOR backlash guaranteed that he never got anything else done, except by EO.)

        If Obama could run today, I have little doubt that he’d be advocating replacing the Obamacare with Medicare for All. He’d be saying that the ACA was a stepping stone that has been extensively monkey-wrenched by the GOP, and it’s time to go all-in. He’d win the nomination easily. Hell, if Michelle threw her hat in the ring at a brokered convention, I’d take the odds and place a big bet on her.

      • Avatar Larry Winter says:

        Well it’s happened once already in the only non-caucus primary. What I’ve read is that there was a 19% turnout in New Hampshire of young voters. The tea leaves are showing this will continue.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          If Sanders supposedly energizes the young vote…19% voter turnout of 18-29 year old voters in NH seems rather dismal to me. The numbers I read from a couple of sources are different than your numbers. From what I can see, The youth vote was down as a percentage from 2016, from 19 percent to 14. I will concede that NH is unrepresentative of both the Democratic electorate and the country as a whole.
          we know that the younger among us like Sanders, the question is, will they come out to vote, will they come out to vote in a general election. We will wait and see.

  84. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    My pledge, once this forum reverts to a tabula rasa in about a week: No more composing posts on this damned iPhone.

    I can’t edit worth a carp on the tiny window. For example, I’ll change a word and fail to see how it clashes with the tense used previously somewhere else in the same sentence—and I’m tired of later reading and gagging on what I’ve posted and is now carved in granite.

    Buh bye, posts written on my iPhone in the parking lot at Holiday Market, in waiting rooms, and at the brewpub.

    • Avatar Gary Tull says:

      Hah. I concur. I manage to muff lettering even when using my littlest pinky finger. Tiny keypads and teeny screens seldom workout well. The ends of my fingers are too dang fat.

  85. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    “If it is possible to avert a public health crisis by inoculating the population with sheer incoherence, we’re all going to be healthy as horses over the next several months.”

    https://apple.news/A6rfXcd9sSUSV-BEqGzUofQ

    It really is astounding how ridiculously inarticulate Der Orange Führer is on a day-to-day basis. You could easily say that Bush II had a folksy speaking style, but was entirely coherent. Algore was slow and deliberate, but not stupid. Obama, similarly deliberate, but articulate. Trump sounds like a guy who has advanced syphilis, and has it bad.

  86. Avatar Candace says:

    Steve, ya, after reading Trump’s calming and insightful presidential words of wisdom in the link you shared I feel completely at ease at having he and Pence (due to the vice-president’s extensive medical training and work in the scientific field of infectious diseases) be in charge of our preparedness for battling the probable spread of coronavirus. Meanwhile…coronavirus.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      More Trump Derangement Syndrome on display. During the Ebola crisis under the Obama administration, President Obama appointed a Ron Klain as the Ebola coordinator. Ron Klain, who prior to this position was the chief of staff for Vice Presidents Al Gore and Joe Biden. Klain had no medical or public health experience. As President Obama said at the time, “…“It makes sense for us to have one person [coordinating Ebola efforts] so that after this initial surge of activity, we can have a more regular process just to make sure that we’re crossing all the T’s and dotting all the I’s going forward,

      But of course, when President Trump does the same thing…Oh, the scandal!! Is there no end to the ridiculousness of the anti-Trumpers?

      • Avatar Gary Tull says:

        In defence of Ron Klain; he is smarter, more experienced, better informed and better qualified by far to coordinate efforts against the spread of covid-19 than anyone trump recently appointed.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        Doug — Nothing wrong with appointing a capable administrator to oversee the logistics of an operation in an arena in which the administrator has little technical expertise. Pence, as a former governor, certainly has experience leading various large-scale government efforts (even if they were mostly of the dismantling variety).

        The worry is that a science denier appointed science denier/religious zealot to oversee the pending anti-epidemic effort.

        It’s not off-the-wall to worry that Trump and Pence will reject the expertise of their technical advisors and go with gut feelings (Trump) and what God tells him in response to prayers (Pence), because those sources of expertise trump the scientists in their minds. That’s truly what they believe, and it’s valid—not TDS—to be concerned.

        Pence botched an HIV outbreak when he was governor of Indiana, caused by shared needles among opioid addicts in small towns mostly on the Kentucky border (i.e., among Indiana’s hillbillies). He was reluctant to start a program of providing free needles and syringes to addicts—a tactic that’s proved very effective elsewhere—based on his personal biases. He actually said that the delay was because he needed time to pray on it.

      • Avatar Larry Winter says:

        “Why in the world did the president pick a dadgum lawyer?” Rep. Trey Gowdy, R-South Carolina, asked at the hearing, pointing out that Klain doesn’t have a background in communicable disease, infectious disease, or West Africa.

        “If this were an outbreak of people who don’t have wills in West Africa, or if this were an outbreak on contested elections in West Africa, then I’d say yeah, go hire Mr. Klain,” Gowdy conintued. “But it’s not. It’s a medical crisis.”

        The difference today is that all communications about the coronavirus needs to pass through Pence. That wasn’t the case with Obama. Pence’s office told a California Democrat, Garamendi, who’s district is where the patient in Sacramento came from, not to go on the Sunday talk shows to discuss the virus.
        Heck, the Republican House held a public hearing on the Ebola crises in which Trey Gowdy was quoted above.

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          Oh, right. I’d momentarily forgot that the Trump administration seems to be more intent on controlling the message than the outbreak. Thanks for the reminder.

          Though, if Garamendi wants to go on the Sunday talk show circuit to talk about the virus, what’s stopping him? Trump can force all of his administration’s communications about the virus to be whitewashed by Pence, but I don’t think he can muzzle Congress. If he can, stick a fork in us.

          • Avatar Gary Tull says:

            Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, one of the country’s leading experts on viruses and the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told associates that the White House had instructed him not to say anything else without clearance.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        And Doug, the central point of my original post in this thread wasn’t to critique the administration’s coronavirus strategy. It was to critique Trump’s almost magical lack of coherence when he speaks.

        Trump’s propensity to produce word salads is alarming—at its worst, it hints at some sort of organic brain disorder.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          Steve, My reply was directed to Candace who seemed incredulous that Trump would select a coordinator that doesn’t have a medical degree. I wonder if she had the same concerns about the previous administration. Look, the Democrats will use any chance to criticize anything this administration does, to politicize everything…even a health crisis.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            As I made clear, I agree with you in the broad sense that the coordinator doesn’t have to be an expert in anything beyond logistical leadership—and possess an ability to listen to, comprehend, and act upon the advice of epidemiological experts.

            As I also tried to make clear, I don’t think Pence is the right guy. My criticism of his appointment isn’t political. I don’t think an anti-science crank should be in charge of a large-scale public health emergency (if that’s what we’re really facing). I don’t think “pray away the RNA” is a sound approach.

            As for Trump’s “odd syntax”—it’s worse than that. It’s far too often a trail of unconnected half-thoughts and nonsensical gibberish. It calls into question his mental capacity, whether it’s the result of Adderall-induced mania, third-stage syphilis, Hannity overexposure, or something else.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            I guess I have some sympathy for Trump’s speaking style, because I suffer from the same problem. I am a horrible public speaker,even if I have well written out notes or speech. I too jumble my thoughts and use the wrong words. It’s just how our brains are wired

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Yeah, and I have zero sympathy for that clown.

            Like you, I’m a deliberate public speaker (and conversationalist) who often stumbles for words. Unlike Trump, neither of us thinks everything we say is “perfect.” We have some self-awareness.

            Trump has zilch of that—he thinks he’s an amazeballs orator. In his addled, egotistical mind, everything he says is pure genius.

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          Yes, he does have an odd syntax when he speaks… shrug… so what

          • Avatar Gary Tull says:

            Doug — has it ever occurred to you that Trump’s “odd syntax” might actually be a sign of insincerity?

          • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

            When Trump speaks all I hear are the demented ravings of an idiot who blurts out anything that happens to surface from the sewer of his mind, no matter how harmful. However, he apparently has enough awareness to know that incitements to violence, conspiracy theories, and racist, sexist, xenophobic (etc.) remarks get screaming approval from his supporters.

  87. Avatar Gary Tull says:

    At last the HJC is launching an overdue wide-ranging probe of AG William Barr Barrhttps://apnews.com/1c22ab8e682e782b41d91af039d15c9b

  88. Avatar Common Sense says:

    When Politics and par·ti·san·ship trump critical thinking and common sense. In the good old days a potential for a epidemic or pandemic was dealt with in a, let’s work together and do what’s best for our citizens.

    Boy how things have changed.

    It’s pretty obvious getting re elected takes prec·e·dence over a potential pandemic. And depending on what happens with this Virus between now and election day, the avenue that it’s the media and the anti Trumper’s that want this to happen here is a Shaky bet if it goes through our Country killing thousands.

    Is the media hyping it up a bit….perhaps….they are there for the ratings and keeping people glued to their T.V’s. Is the current Administration trying to down play it? YEP. Saying it’s under control is perhaps OK if it doesn’t do anymore than it has at this point, and it goes away when the weather warms up! If it gets out of control that statement is political suicide. If thousands die…..there goes the Election!

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/02/28/dangerous-bet-trump-mulvaney-are-placing-coronavirus/

    This is the same Admin that cut the CDC funding and experts, that would have stepped right in and fairly assessed it and started working on it day one!

  89. Avatar Larry Winter says:

    Best line of the day.

    Make Orwell fiction again.

  90. Avatar Kathryn McDonald says:

    At his rally today in South Carolina, Trump, as is his wont, screamed “This (Coronavirus) is the new hoax.” I don’t know what to say about that. Maybe, I should just cry. Meanwhile, the guy put in charge was out campaigning all day.

    • Avatar common sense says:

      https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/28/trump-south-carolina-rally-coronavirus-118269

      It’s all fun and games until the people with no protection that went to get the people with the virus from the Japanese ship start showing up positive….and it starts making it’s round in the White House and on the Hill!

      It takes “up to 27 days” to have the full blown symptoms from the time of exposure!

      It would be sad to think we have to lose hundreds or thousands of Americans to get rid of the Orange Guy! Why couldn’t it have been all those Crimes?

      • Avatar Sue says:

        https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/02/28/i-have-coronavirus-so-far-it-isnt-that-bad/
        We all just need to be smart…wash your hands. Do you remember when a picture was posted of the task force dedicated to Corona and it was picked start by all the white people? Where was the panic over this flu virus then? Also let’s not forget Zika, Swine, Bird, etc etc etc. Seems a new flu virus erupts every 2-ish years. The Left likes to go through some kind of daily catastrophic life-ending mental anguish. Trust in the Lord (and Trump) and enjoy; quit the dang CONSTANT worrying. Y’all need to chill!
        Btw..cruise ships are floating Petri dishes.

        • Hal Johnson Hal Johnson says:

          All I know for sure is that I’ll be happy to go back to drinking Mexican beer when this virus scare is over.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Why is that an odd ruling? We still have a Constitution, Hey Gary…guess what, the Russian conspiracy that you put all your eggs in the basket is over…time to move on. Keep looking for another scandal.

      • Avatar Gary Tull says:

        It’s an odd ruling because congressional subpoenas are official and the courts don’t usually interfer,

        • Avatar Gary Tull says:

          Above is an example of how a sentence can end while balancing the keypad on a knee.

          Anyhow Doug, where in the Constitution does it say a key witness can ignore an official Subpoena to Appear at a congressional impeachment hearing?

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      That is not what he said at all…Why do you feel the need to twist his words? What are you trying to prove by misrepresenting what he said? Unbelievable. He did not say that coronavirus is the new hoax. I noticed that you put coronavirus in parenthesis. He said that the Democrats criticism of his response is the new hoax. The Democrats will of course criticize everything the president does. They criticized his early travel restrictions from China…calling it a ‘Nationalistic approach’. It appears now that the restrictions was the correct move. It is time to back off…let the administration deal with this.

  91. Avatar Chad Magnuson says:

    Any rational person listening to trump downplay the potential of the Coronavirus while emphasizing the stock market should be very concerned with trumps mental balance.
    And now we have to be concerned that the leader of our country would attempt to silence the real experts in a potential attempt to politicize a very serious situation.

  92. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    So, Orange Mussolini says “coronavirus is the Democrats’ new hoax.” A worldwide pandemic is just another attack on his perfect leadership.

    Time will tell whether the coronavirus panic is overblown. It’s a pandemic, and it looks increasingly like it has a fairly high infection rate but a modest mortality rate—but if nearly everyone gets it, a lot of people are going to die. You, me, and Trump are entitled to our a-priori opinions about how currently overblown (or not) the seriousness of the pandemic will turn out to be for us in the United States.

    The problem, once again, is that Trump can’t help but put himself first. He has to turn a growing pandemic, and the economic repercussions of it, into a personal attack. He has to make into it a “get Trump” conspiracy, engineered by liberals. In his mind, it’s just another source of fodder for divisive Trump rallies.

    The President of the United States is a mentally deranged megalomaniac.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Steve… so you did it too. Let’s try this again. The president did not say coronavirus is the Democrats’ new hoax. Why did you put that in quotes if he never said that? What he said was the Democrats critisism of his response is a hoax. Which it is.

      • Avatar Patrecia Barrett says:

        No Doug – below is the actual video. Trump calls concerns about the virus itself a Democratic hoax, and does everything he can to just write off the threat. This clown is so deranged and egomaniacal that even something that’s quickly becoming a world-wide pandemic is somehow just a conspiracy theory against him. Don’t you ever get tired of making up excuses for this demented sociopath?

        https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-calls-coronavirus-democrats-new-hoax-n1145721

        • Avatar Doug Cook says:

          No Patrecia, two on here quoted the president as saying the virus is a Democratic hoax. That is not what he said at all. Even your video does not show that

          • Avatar Kathryn McDonald says:

            The sociopath also said at the rally that there are only 15 cases in the US and at his news conference this morning that there are only 23.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            So Kathryn…in a country of 350 million people, the president was off by 8 cases…and that makes him a sociopath? You can’t see how ridiculous you are sounding? Perhaps he was updated after the rally with new cases appearing. Wow.

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Doug — None of us can claim to know how many people in this country are infected. Some are likely asymptomatic or have mild symptoms that haven’t been diagnosed as coronavirus, so you can’t claim that Trump was off by just a bit. You might prefer 15 or 23 cases or whatever, to downplay the thing. I think it’s out of the can, and it’s more likely hundreds or thousands of cases at this point.

            Nobody really knows, so it’s all speculation at this point. (Or, if the epidemiologists at CDC know or have a really good idea of the status, they’re not allowed to tell us owing to the clear-it-with-the-VEEP gag order.)

        • Avatar Sue says:

          I hope you are all watching the press conference; it’ll answer all your concerns! If y’all would just pay attention to these press conferences, you wouldn’t be making all these false statements. Trump NEVER EVER said Corornavirus was a hoax. Listen and Learn…I am!

          • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

            Sue — I think most of us agree that he was talking about \ what other say about his response. He’s arguing that whatever the Democrats have to say in the way of the magnitude of the threat or critiques of his actions, it’s a hoax. If his inexact way of speaking has some people convinced otherwise—that he’s saying the outbreak itself is a hoax—they’re wrong, but they have the excuse that Trump is the most inarticulate POTUS we’ve had in our lifetimes. It’s often difficult to parse his gibberish.

            Also, when in doubt about what Trump means, it’s hard to give him the benefit of the doubt precisely because he so frequently says things that are ridiculously counter to reality. Interpreting “It’s a hoax” as “It’s not a real thing” is of course the most absurd of all his possible intended meanings, but it wouldn’t be the most absurdly untrue thing he’s said and meant since taking office.

          • Avatar Common Sense says:

            Yeah Sue, it sure makes me feel better when the President talks about the LADY that Died of the Virus! That’s the President that Said that…..and got it WRONG.

            https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/democratic-candidates-hit-trump-s-coronavirus-hoax-claim-n1145911

            Wrong like the “Witch hunt”….wrong like the “perfect phone call” wrong like….I could go on for days…..

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        Doug — The irony is that if I say I was quoting an article and inadvertently made it look like I was quoting Trump, I’m copping to the kind of mistake that Trump would never admit making in 1,000 years. On top of that, any blatant untruth he tells—such as, we now have coronavirus in this country thanks to the Democrats’ open-border policies—has a millionfold the impact of anything I say. I’m just some honk from Shastanistan; he’s the friggin’ POTUS. So….my bad, but let’s keep my dubious use of quotation marks in perspective.

        As for Trump’s response being a hoax: C’mon, man. One form of that criticism is that a healthcare pro should be in charge. I don’t necessarily agree, but I do agree it shouldn’t be an anti-science rube like Mike Pence. That dude has a track record of screwing up an HIV outbreak among his state’s opioid-addicted hillbillies when he was Guv of Indiana, because he was reluctant to follow the advice of his medical advisors—he let his political and religious orthodoxies get in the way. It’s well within bounds to criticize Pence’s appointment as the lead guy in fighting a potential public health emergency.

        It’s also disturbing the Trump can’t acknowledge that the disruption of the stock market are over concerns about supply-line disruptions starting in China and the like. We’ll probably need a rational response to the economic perturbations that are sure to come. It’s hard to have confidence that we’ll get that when Trump is out there saying that it’s all about Democrats trying to sandbag his brilliant achievements.

  93. Avatar Common Sense says:

    The “Witch hunt” seemed to send ‘many” to jail. Now the Corona Virus Hoax is killing people in OUR Country! Get it?…..half will and half won’t.

    For anyone that has at least a little common sense and at least a modest degree of critical thinking skills…..take a quick look back on what happened JUST in the last 30 days……so to down play it and call it a Hoax is ASS inine.

    There will be Elderly people dying in Washington here soon……not a HOAX. California is monitoring 8400 people right now……HELLO HUSTON…..we have a “potentially” HUGE problem here…….

    I can see the Political ads in 3-4 months…..hello….I am Mike Bloomberg, Remember back when the President said this Deadly Virus was a Democratic Hoax? It’s killed 1200 now……38 thousand more are now infected…..it’s time for a Real President! Yes folks….this is the Same President that Slashed the CDC budget and put his Vice President in Charge that let many die years ago with the HIV epidemic because he put Religious Views in front of common sense needle exchanges.

  94. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    How about this Steve…how about y’all stop obsessing about the president 24/7. Good gawd, it’s becoming a joke. Every move he makes there are 20 comments about it. Our Founding Fathers spent an inordinate amount of time at the constitutional convention designing the presidency so that the position isn’t like being a King. Pence will do a fine job coordinating the virus response. I imagine as well if not better than Obama’s political hack during the Ebola scare. So far, it appears that the US is doing very well in controlling the virus. I still think the Trump haters out there are rubbing their hands together in glee that this is an excuse to hammer Trump. Never mind about the victims, let’s screw the president.

    • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

      Doug — As a guy who suffers from serious respiratory issues (somewhat mysteriously—I’ve never been a smoker) and is considered at-risk from any respiratory infection, I can assure you that I’m not rubbing my hands together hoping for Trump’s failure. I’d like to watch my grandkids grow up.

      As for the intensions of the Founders, I could argue that they erred in the direction of allowing for the rise of the Imperial Presidency. (There are advantages to having a Prime Minister who answers at all times to the people.) And for damned sure, they didn’t anticipate a POTUS saying that Article 2 gives him the power to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants.

  95. Avatar bruce vojtecky says:

    Here in Phoenix the Asian Food Festival had lines backed around the block. Vendors, of course they would be upbeat, said the COVID outbreak has been over blown. The TV news interviewed people lined up and no one was concerned. In fact no one in Arizona has died from COVID, though there was a recent Valley Fever death. Arizona is more concerned about the yearly breakout of Flu.

    • Avatar Doug Cook says:

      Bruce, this weekend I am in So Cal attending a NASCAR race…yes, I’m being entertained by watching 40 cars burning fossle fuels. There will be 90,000 fans in the stands today. Doubt there will be much panic. This is like the rumors about a recession that kicked up last year. The Trump haters were hoping for one to damage the president, never mind that it would have hurt Americans.

      • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

        This just in: The Trump haters are hoping for a recession.

        :::eye roll:::

      • Avatar Sue says:

        Sooooo Hella jelly about your day today Doug! Nascar on my bucket list, hubby has been a couple times and he says it’s a friggen blast! Trump haters are haters; pure and simple, I hope they have some joy in their panic-driven lives. Enjoy your awesome carbon-burning day; I’ll hold the fort here.

      • Avatar Larry Winter says:

        There were only 35,000 in attendance last year. I’ll bet NASCAR is sweating bullets because of the virus scare.

        • Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

          That 35k in the stands last year in an arena that has almost 70k seats is either glass-half-empty or glass-half-full, depending on your perspective. I looked at the race’s FB page—hoards of folks seeking to sell tickets right now, very few asking “how much?”

          It’s certainly not going to be 90k in the stands this year, even if the average NASCAR fan buys Trump’s assurances that Mike has everything under control.

          I don’t know how it’s affecting NBA attendance, but the National College Players Association has asked the NCAA to seriously explore holding the March Madness tournament without fans in the stands.

          • Avatar Doug Cook says:

            I guess I was thinking of the good old days. NASCAR attendence peaked around 2006 and has declined since then. Not sure why that is. The stands today looked about 3/4 full despite cold and nasty weather. Didn’t appear the virus scare had any effect on attendence this year. Was a fun weekend, though.

  96. Avatar Linda Cooper says:

    Some of the cavalier comments are getting to me. I prefer to view myself as wanting to be mindful and aware. However, it was the relish and joy for carbon burning that got to me. Seriously, we do share a world with others, and what we “do” affects the collective. If it’s prudent to stay away from large crowds for awhile, fine by me.

  97. Steve Towers Steve Towers says:

    Trump Jr. said that Democrats want millions of Americans to die of coronavirus in order to take down his father.

    Asked about the statement, VEEP Mike Pence says: “It’s time for the other side to turn down the volume.” Not Trump Jr. THE OTHER SIDE.

    And some on this message board accuse those on the left of being deranged.

  98. Avatar Linda Cooper says:

    Well, I had not heard the Trump Jr. and Pence statements. So thank you (I guess.) Not surprised, however.
    I can’t even refer to their statements as disingenuous. Too “kind” of a term, and they both know exactly what they are doing.

    As for the some on this message board who accuse me of being on the left, I will accept that They are indeed deranged. In this regard, that term I can accept as it applies. To them.

    But rest assured, Sue is holding down the fort -this fort- for Doug. I wonder if they even subscribe, like with money, to this forum. Or are they members of the “something for nothing” bunch?

    Crap, I’m going down to their level.

    • Barbara Rice Barbara Rice says:

      Someone much smarter than me once wrote, ” People will make outrageous statements, and they will make them in a way that invites heated refutation. These people (and their postings) are called trolls; the best way to defeat a troll is to ignore it. Not even the most seasoned infighter can get traction when no one else is willing to get in the ring.”

      The thing about such people is that they make you think they actually believe what they wrote. They might or they might not. What is important is (A) you think they believe it and (B) you respond in such a way that they know they achieved their goal: to cause disruption. Often they then come back with a ha-ha-oh-gosh-I didn’t-know-you-were-so-sensitive manner, which is the MO of the abuser, implying that it’s your fault you didn’t see the humor of words written deliberately to inflame others, i.e. “Can’t you take a joke?”, which exacerbates the situation.

      The best thing to do – difficult through it is – is to ignore such statements. When they no longer get the power rush of upsetting people while sitting anonymously behind a computer screen, they will go away.

      • Avatar Sue says:

        My excitement for a fellow reader doesn’t designate Troll status. Please take a moment to read The Heartland Institute regarding global warming; or I can easily attach some articles. Let’s debate!

      • Avatar Linda Cooper says:

        Barbara and Candy, I really appreciate your comments. Yeah, I was beginning to go into the “dark night of the soul.” I will take what you both wrote to heart. Meanwhile, I would like to get a bonus point that I have not been posting for some time. Just for the mentioned reasons. I have been attempting to ignore them. I still read though. And am grateful to Steve Towers for responding, without soaking it in. I learn so much from his posts, as I do the others who also intelligently respond and clarify.

        • Avatar Candace says:

          Linda, perfect example of the “I was just joking” or “I was just excited” excuse that Barbara was speaking to earlier:
          “ Sooooo Hella jelly about your day today Doug! Nascar on my bucket list, hubby has been a couple times and he says it’s a friggen blast! Trump haters are haters; pure and simple, I hope they have some joy in their panic-driven lives. Enjoy your awesome carbon-burning day; I’ll hold the fort here.”
          If the author of the above comment was honest about “just being excited” they would have stopped after “ it’s a friggin’ blast!”. They didn’t. I recognize it because I’ve done it. I”ll personally give you a point Linda if you’ve not waded in often when very upset at certain commenters. I know I haven’t practiced much restrain regarding that more than a few times. As I’m sure you and others have noticed I can have a very sharp tongue and a wicked sarcastic sense of humor. In fact Barbara deleted a recent comment I made where I mentioned something about Dillards and matching slave-skin pumps. Thank you Barbara. That’s why I’ve backed off. I was getting nasty and nothing was being accomplished by my doing so other than to help perpetuate down the rabbit-hole crap by a few commenters who like to stir things up simply for the sake of “the stir”. Did I feel superior when I played “gotcha? Sure, for a hot minute. That’s not called “debate”, that’s called “shitposting” (look it up) . Another perfect example of a shitposter would be to respond to my current comments by saying something like “Candace/Candy how refreshing that you’ve come to terms with one of your shortcomings. SOoooo happy to hear you’ll be working on doing better!” Yup, that’d be it, lol. I’m working at being better. As my daughter jokingly likes to say when I say something like “I wish I didn’t do that, eat that, etc.” “Then don’t?”. Joking or not, her admonishment stays with me. It’s pretty simple advice and a lot of times, doable as well. You, Linda? Like I mentioned before, you’re just fine. Now, I’ll really date myself and say “Thanks for coming to my ted talk”. Take good care.

      • Avatar Doug Cook says:

        I find it interesting, Barbara and Linda that you think my comments are outrageous. .have you read certain comments by our left leaning friends like Patrecia or Common Sense?… someone that won’t even use his own name. Yes, I subscribe to this site, pay my money as every one else. Sorry if I’m outspoken. But I don’t think I say much that is outrageous., Unless you think anyone on the conservative side is outrageous. I just don’t understand today’s political discourse. Instead of having discussions, and possibly respectfully disagreeing with a person’s opinion. We are called outrageous, a troll, encourage others to ignore us. I believe I am respectful to others, in contrast to many towards me. I have been studying politics since I was a young lad, receiving my BA and Masters in it, so I believe I am fairly savvy and knowledgeable in the subject of politics…sorry if my personal view doesn’t align with this forum. If you want just one side of an issue discussed, well maybe you should ask each subscriber their political affiliation so you don’t have to take our money and you can ignore that side of the argument. Which to me would make a rather boring forum. Earlier I corrected some misstatements about the president calling the virus a hoax. Even Steve agreed with my correction. Was that being outrageous? Or is misquoting the president to prove your hate towards him outrageous? I dunno…you decide

  99. Avatar Common Sense says:

    It’s Sad that People in our Country will have to die from this latest Virus. The Democrats will Seize on the way this was handled and the way it was promoted as a Democratic Hoax in the beginning. The Ads should start in the next couple of months once more people have it and unfortunately more deaths happen.

    All those crimes didn’t bring him down……but the handling of this Virus if it gets out of control just might!

    Centers for Disease Control estimate, between 40% and 70% of the worlds Adult population will contract coronavirus. Do some Quick Math. Approx 200 Million Adult Americans…..times a 3% death rate.

    Now you starting to see why the potential is there for a new President? I don’t think the USA death rate will be as bad with our technology and standards but still, even a 1% death rate is 2 MILLION People.

    Or it will all just go away as the President says when it warms up!!

    https://www.salon.com/2020/02/26/trump-furious-cdc-issued-coronavirus-warnings-that-spooked-stock-market-report/

  100. Avatar Candy says:

    Hi Linda, the cavalier comments are intended to get to you. That’s the goal. Don’t pay them no never mind. You’re head and heart are in the right place. People 60 and older are always wise to be prudent during any flu season and especially during an outbreak of a virus that we currently have no vaccine for. You’re fine. Try not to let the arrogant “ naysayer” noise get to you and wash your hands, wash your hands, wash your hands. Enjoy the rest of this windy day!

  101. Avatar Candace says:

    Linda, whoops, “Candy” is me. I didn’t realize I’d written that until I saw it here. Candy (aka Cander, Candlewood, Can and CanDance” lol) is what I’m called by long time friends and some family. I don’t mind either.

  102. Joanne Snyder Joanne Snyder says:

    Doug, my husband has followed NASCAR for decades and the sport has surely changed over time. Racing started to gain more fans and brought in enough money to improve tracks and increase money awards. It is amazing to compare today’s race cars with those of even 20 years ago. I think the world is moving away from fossil fuels, but even car racing could make that transition as new technologies are developed.

  103. Joanne Snyder Joanne Snyder says:

    Good advice Candace. Wash your hands and avoid sick people unless you are a teacher! My elementary school closed during the Hong Kong flu in the 60s because so many of us were ill. So much has been learned about how to control the spread of a pandemic. Everytime we hear about thousands of chickens being killed in some region of China it is because of swift reaction to a host leaping virus that ended up making people ill. We aren’t going to get sound information about this pandemic from politicians, the TV or the newspaper. It’s not a hoax, and that anyone politicizes it is immaterial. Real information can is available at The World Health Organization (https://www.who.int/westernpacific/emergencies/covid-19) and the California Department of Public Health. https://www.cdph.ca.gov/

  104. Avatar Doug Cook says:

    I’m actually sad that Mayor Pete decided to end his campaign. I found him to be the smartest, sincerest candidate among the field of Democrats running. Probably the best politician of them all. And smart enough to realize that him staying in was hurting the moderate wing by dividing up that vote. Exactly what happened in 2016 with the GOP. He is obviously young enough that this isn’t the last we heard of him.